Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
On Sun, 4 May 2014, Timo Weingärtner wrote: The installer already asks whether to enable non-free repositories. Perhaps This could get a loud warning, yes. the warning could be more verbose differentiating between open-source-but-non- free (GFDL etc.) and closed-source. There is no difference, from a Debian PoV, between those. Both in spirit and in repositories. bye, //mirabilos -- «MyISAM tables -will- get corrupted eventually. This is a fact of life. » “mysql is about as much database as ms access” – “MSSQL at least descends from a database” “it's a rebranded SyBase” “MySQL however was born from a flatfile and went downhill from there” – “at least jetDB doesn’t claim to be a database” ‣‣‣ Please, http://deb.li/mysql and MariaDB, finally die! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.10.1405061339500.13...@tglase.lan.tarent.de
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
Le 04/05/2014 23:15, Jonathan Dowland a écrit : On Sun, May 04, 2014 at 01:59:09PM +0200, Solal wrote: I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters Who's 'we'? We in the official list of Debian developers means... The Debian developers. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53679cde.3080...@me.com
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
…and firmware. +1 -- Salvo Tomaselli Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno. -- Galileo Galilei http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/2973237.mVVJe0ZZT7@hal9000
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
No +1 because proprietary firmware is unethical too. Le 05/05/2014 17:28, Salvo Tomaselli a écrit : …and firmware. +1 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5367ae79.5060...@me.com
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
In data lunedì 5 maggio 2014 17:30:01, Solal ha scritto: No +1 because proprietary firmware is unethical too. So don't install it and don't tell me what should I think. Cheers -- Salvo Tomaselli Io non mi sento obbligato a credere che lo stesso Dio che ci ha dotato di senso, ragione ed intelletto intendesse che noi ne facessimo a meno. -- Galileo Galilei http://ltworf.github.io/ltworf/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/29774854.XCGqkiTW20@hal9000
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
On 05/05/2014 05:30 PM, Solal wrote: No +1 because proprietary firmware is unethical too. hmm, have you read the post you are replying to and what the +1 was referring to? and please do stop top-posting... fgmards IOhannes PS: am i just feeding the troll? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
* IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) umlae...@debian.org, 2014-05-05, 18:58: PS: am i just feeding the troll? Yes. -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140505181320.ga5...@jwilk.net
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
IOhannes m zmölnig (Debian/GNU) umlae...@debian.org writes: ... and please do stop top-posting... s/top-// pgpuflwoBqD8u.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
Solal dijo [Mon, May 05, 2014 at 04:14:54PM +0200]: I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters Who's 'we'? We in the official list of Debian developers means... The Debian developers. So... Who are you? We¹ would like to know. ¹ We in the context of a mail with no further information means three of my sock puppets and me. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140506013050.ga77...@gwolf.org
Point 1 of Social Contract
I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters, and we should warn proprietary software users about proprietary software unethicality (this does not mean that we will not help users proprietary software but just that we warn of dangers. howewer, we will not help proprietary software creaters). [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53662b8d.7060...@me.com
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
On 04/05/2014 13:59, Solal wrote: I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters, and we should warn proprietary software users about proprietary software unethicality (this does not mean that we will not help users proprietary software but just that we warn of dangers. howewer, we will not help proprietary software creaters). [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] This is your idea. However, as shown by [GR2004-2], this is not the opinion of the project. [GR2004-2]: http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 Sincerely, -- Jean-Christophe Dubacq signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
[GR2004-2] have nothing to do with it. My proprosition is just warn about proprietary software dangers, but users would still install non-free software from repositories, get help from developers, etc. But they are warned. Le 04/05/2014 14:20, Jean-Christophe Dubacq a écrit : On 04/05/2014 13:59, Solal wrote: I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters, and we should warn proprietary software users about proprietary software unethicality (this does not mean that we will not help users proprietary software but just that we warn of dangers. howewer, we will not help proprietary software creaters). [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] This is your idea. However, as shown by [GR2004-2], this is not the opinion of the project. [GR2004-2]: http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 Sincerely, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/53663170.1060...@me.com
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
Hi, 2014-05-04 14:24:16 Solal: [GR2004-2] have nothing to do with it. My proprosition is just warn about proprietary software dangers, but users would still install non-free software from repositories, get help from developers, etc. But they are warned. The installer already asks whether to enable non-free repositories. Perhaps the warning could be more verbose differentiating between open-source-but-non- free (GFDL etc.) and closed-source. Greetings Timo signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
On 04/05/2014 14:24, Solal wrote: [GR2004-2] have nothing to do with it. My proprosition is just warn about proprietary software dangers, but users would still install non-free software from repositories, get help from developers, etc. But they are warned. Le 04/05/2014 14:20, Jean-Christophe Dubacq a écrit : On 04/05/2014 13:59, Solal wrote: I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters, and we should warn proprietary software users about proprietary software unethicality (this does not mean that we will not help users proprietary software but just that we warn of dangers. howewer, we will not help proprietary software creaters). [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] This is your idea. However, as shown by [GR2004-2], this is not the opinion of the project. [GR2004-2]: http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 Please do not top-post if possible. I'd rather not annoy our users more than the current warning about enabling non-free at install time. However, this warning may be rewritten if the project feels it is not informative enough. However, your proposition also has the sentence we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters. This is subject to many interpretations. The first interpretation that comes to my mind is in contradiction with point 5 of the Debian social contract (for example in Thus, although non-free works are not a part of Debian, we support their use and provide infrastructure for non-free packages). As for other interpretations, the project generally does not distinguish between uses of the software, be it for creating free software, curing cancer, being evil, or worse: creating non-free software. Not supporting proprietary software creaters would probably, in some of these interpretations, require considering not allowing Debian to be used for non-free software, which would bar us from using almost all currently DFSG-free software. Is that what you meant by we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters? Because providing them our wonderful distribution is supporting them. Sincerely, -- Jean-Christophe Dubacq signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
I speak about Point 1 : We will help creaters and users of both free and non-free software. Help creaters of non-free software is unethical. Don't support non-free software creaters and don't help them is freedom protective. Proprietary software is unethical and I see no reason to help unethical things. Le 04/05/2014 17:07, Jean-Christophe Dubacq a écrit : On 04/05/2014 14:24, Solal wrote: [GR2004-2] have nothing to do with it. My proprosition is just warn about proprietary software dangers, but users would still install non-free software from repositories, get help from developers, etc. But they are warned. Le 04/05/2014 14:20, Jean-Christophe Dubacq a écrit : On 04/05/2014 13:59, Solal wrote: I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters, and we should warn proprietary software users about proprietary software unethicality (this does not mean that we will not help users proprietary software but just that we warn of dangers. howewer, we will not help proprietary software creaters). [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider]]] [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] This is your idea. However, as shown by [GR2004-2], this is not the opinion of the project. [GR2004-2]: http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/vote_002 Please do not top-post if possible. I'd rather not annoy our users more than the current warning about enabling non-free at install time. However, this warning may be rewritten if the project feels it is not informative enough. However, your proposition also has the sentence we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters. This is subject to many interpretations. The first interpretation that comes to my mind is in contradiction with point 5 of the Debian social contract (for example in Thus, although non-free works are not a part of Debian, we support their use and provide infrastructure for non-free packages). As for other interpretations, the project generally does not distinguish between uses of the software, be it for creating free software, curing cancer, being evil, or worse: creating non-free software. Not supporting proprietary software creaters would probably, in some of these interpretations, require considering not allowing Debian to be used for non-free software, which would bar us from using almost all currently DFSG-free software. Is that what you meant by we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters? Because providing them our wonderful distribution is supporting them. Sincerely, -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/536658a7.1090...@me.com
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
+++ Solal [2014-05-04 17:11 +0200]: Proprietary software is unethical and I see no reason to help unethical things. So why are you apparently posting from a Mac? Hard to get much more unethical (in legal business) than Apple, IMHO. I do hope you didn't give them any money. (and you are still top-posting. Don't). There are also many more useful things you could do for Debian than tell us that we are doing it all wrong on this list. Wookey -- Principal hats: Linaro, Emdebian, Wookware, Balloonboard, ARM http://wookware.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140504152909.gz29...@stoneboat.aleph1.co.uk
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
On Sun, May 04, 2014 at 02:55:21PM +0200, Timo Weingärtner wrote: 2014-05-04 14:24:16 Solal: [GR2004-2] have nothing to do with it. My proprosition is just warn about proprietary software dangers, but users would still install non-free software from repositories, get help from developers, etc. But they are warned. The installer already asks whether to enable non-free repositories. Perhaps the warning could be more verbose differentiating between open-source-but-non- free (GFDL etc.) and closed-source. …and firmware. Kind regards philipp Kern signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Point 1 of Social Contract
On Sun, May 04, 2014 at 01:59:09PM +0200, Solal wrote: I think we shouldn't support proprietary software creaters Who's 'we'? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140504211504.ga8...@bryant.redmars.org
