Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Am 2007-04-24 19:05:47, schrieb Luis Matos: My CD provides ALL packages for the installation of Office-Workstations and required server (postgresql, apache, nfs, samba, cups, courier...) humm ... would you like to share? I create the CD's per customer and currently I am recreating the CD's but it is now a little bit difficult since my Build-Computer is broken and have to replace it. But looking into the Skole-Linux CD I think, I will integrate some features I do not have on my CD's (The scripts are rather old, - over 3 years) This would be definitivly a business clone of Skolelinux. yes. as i can see, skolelinux has many of this. Maybe some generalization of some features for both use and then special features for the business one would be nice. Currentl I use my own very old scripts but switching now to debian-cd to create my new installation CD's... Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Le Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 09:17:38AM -0400, Matthew McGuire a écrit : a single tasksel system does sound nice, but it makes building the iso images for the installers impossible. If the user can select an essentially infinite number of tasks from the one interface then the installer would require a disk image too large for CD media. Hi, I think that a solution was already previously proposed by me and others: If the pacakges necessary for the installation of the CDDs were not available, the tasks would be greyed, and when the network is available, it does not matter that the packages pulled by the CDD are not present on the physical installaiton medium. Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy http://charles.plessy.org Wako, Saitama, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Andreas Tille wrote: On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Joey Hess wrote: Andreas Tille wrote: Yes, you are right and I'm even doing this in the med-common package. But I do not really regard this as a really nice solution if those extra tasks are mixed with the default Debian tasks. Note that you can hide the debian tasks by diverting debian-tasks.desc. This could probably be improved. Well, I know the diversion concept but it just does not fit what I regard reasonable. The default tasksel list is OK, but needs a feature to add the tasks that were prepared inside Debian in a structured way. You can also set your custom tasks to have a higer Relevance than the standard tasks, to make them be displayed first in the list. I would regard the default as higher relevance and below this come CDDs (in general). So also this feature does not fit my idea of selecting a task - it might be that my idea is a missconception, but there was no argument up to know that convinced me that I'm wrong. Kind regards Andreas. Hi Andreas, It seems to me that the problems you describe in Tasksel are fixable only if you sacrifice the simplicity of the default installer. Don't get me wrong, the idea that all CDD's could be represented within a single tasksel system does sound nice, but it makes building the iso images for the installers impossible. If the user can select an essentially infinite number of tasks from the one interface then the installer would require a disk image too large for CD media. However if the installer CD ISO generation system used something like jigdo, you might be able to make CDD install disks easier and not have to change the default installer images. This would require the CDD team to assure that the default packages for the CDD do not require more than 650-700MB of space on the iso when added to the base system. Joey, this would potentially require the installer build system to use jigdo. Does that seem practical to you, or is it not feasible? Should I direct this question to Frans? I would be very interested in seeing Debian produce variable installed versions based on CDD. This would be similar to the varied versions of other distributions (home, business, and server class versions), and would allow lots of flexibility for derived distributions. However having varied releases based on target use might not be desirable for the project. There are many possible trade offs with either approach and a jigdo driven debian-installer image builder would probably require some serious work. On the other hand debian-installer is building installer images for KDE and XFCE now so how much of a stretch is it to build CDD driven installer images as well? Just some thoughts... Thanks, Matthew McGuire PS: Where do I get a flame retardant suit these days? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Charles Plessy wrote: Le Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 09:17:38AM -0400, Matthew McGuire a écrit : a single tasksel system does sound nice, but it makes building the iso images for the installers impossible. If the user can select an essentially infinite number of tasks from the one interface then the installer would require a disk image too large for CD media. Hi, I think that a solution was already previously proposed by me and others: If the pacakges necessary for the installation of the CDDs were not available, the tasks would be greyed, and when the network is available, it does not matter that the packages pulled by the CDD are not present on the physical installaiton medium. Have a nice day, That is an interesting idea, and I am sorry I didn't see your suggestion in the thread. Although if you are going to display the tasks based on condition of available packages, it might be reasonable to not display the task at all if it's dependencies are not met. However, if you choose to display them in a disabled state it might be good to provide a note on how to enable them in the task selection dialog. Such that disabled tasks can be enabled if you choose a network mirror or add the appropriate CD media during the install. This might be a bit obtuse and could be confusing to new users. IIRC, the tasksel dialog appears well after apt configuration so it might not be a suitable solution. The biggest concern I have with my own idea, is that existing tasks would not be maintained by the tasksel maintainers and therefore would need more collective QA work. The trade-off is that you get people from the CDD team to help maintain their specific task. This promotes the internal team leadership model, but is this a good time or place to test that model? I think so, but I am sure others would disagree. Thanks, Matthew -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Hello Arjan and *, Am 2007-04-18 15:24:36, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would like to start a new sub-project called Debian4Business or perhaps Debian-Office.I have a slight preference for the first name, but this is discussable of course. I am open... I have a small company, that provides legal services. About 6 months ago (I use linux for more than 8 years already) all desktops are running Linux now. The people using those desktops have no prior linux experience. I have tried several distributions, but with every distribution I see problems appear with the people that use it. These problem appear because no distribution is really focused on business use within small and mid-sized companies. I am Debian GNU/Linux Consultant in Strasbourg/Frace and using my own CDD for my cusomers which is a BUSINESS equivalent for Skolelinux debian-edu. My CD provides ALL packages for the installation of Office-Workstations and required server (postgresql, apache, nfs, samba, cups, courier...) Of course there are some distro's with exactly this goal, however they are usually commercial products/forks. Probably all very good distro's but also awfully expensive, and that makes them not very interesting for small- and mid-sized companies. FullACK I believe there is definetely a 'market' for a business oriented linux based on open source/GPL/Debian social-contract, maintained for and by it's users instead of a commercial base. The open source/GPL/DSC concept works for individuals, so why it wouldn't/couldn't work for businesses? 2800 installations in region Strasbourg(FR), Colmar(FR), Mulhouse(FR), Kehl(DE) Offenburg(DE), Lahr(DE) and Freiburg(DE) give me a ... :-) My goal with this project is to create a CDD that provides it's users with the tools they need to easily install and use the things a small and mid-sized business needs in their working environment. This goes for both server and desktop tasks. A small and mid-sized company often doesn't have a permanent system manager, that's exactly why things have to be simple. Of course it should also include the common office tools, like an office package (openoffice), email, groupware, etc etc. This would be definitivly a business clone of Skolelinux. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 50, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi 0033/6/6192519367100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Ter, 2007-04-24 às 16:44 +0200, Michelle Konzack escreveu: Hello Arjan and *, Am 2007-04-18 15:24:36, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would like to start a new sub-project called Debian4Business or perhaps Debian-Office.I have a slight preference for the first name, but this is discussable of course. I am open... I have a small company, that provides legal services. About 6 months ago (I use linux for more than 8 years already) all desktops are running Linux now. The people using those desktops have no prior linux experience. I have tried several distributions, but with every distribution I see problems appear with the people that use it. These problem appear because no distribution is really focused on business use within small and mid-sized companies. I am Debian GNU/Linux Consultant in Strasbourg/Frace and using my own CDD for my cusomers which is a BUSINESS equivalent for Skolelinux debian-edu. My CD provides ALL packages for the installation of Office-Workstations and required server (postgresql, apache, nfs, samba, cups, courier...) Of course there are some distro's with exactly this goal, however they are usually commercial products/forks. Probably all very good distro's but also awfully expensive, and that makes them not very interesting for small- and mid-sized companies. FullACK I believe there is definetely a 'market' for a business oriented linux based on open source/GPL/Debian social-contract, maintained for and by it's users instead of a commercial base. The open source/GPL/DSC concept works for individuals, so why it wouldn't/couldn't work for businesses? 2800 installations in region Strasbourg(FR), Colmar(FR), Mulhouse(FR), Kehl(DE) Offenburg(DE), Lahr(DE) and Freiburg(DE) give me a ... :-) My goal with this project is to create a CDD that provides it's users with the tools they need to easily install and use the things a small and mid-sized business needs in their working environment. This goes for both server and desktop tasks. A small and mid-sized company often doesn't have a permanent system manager, that's exactly why things have to be simple. Of course it should also include the common office tools, like an office package (openoffice), email, groupware, etc etc. This would be definitivly a business clone of Skolelinux. yes. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Ter, 2007-04-24 às 16:44 +0200, Michelle Konzack escreveu: Hello Arjan and *, Am 2007-04-18 15:24:36, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I would like to start a new sub-project called Debian4Business or perhaps Debian-Office.I have a slight preference for the first name, but this is discussable of course. I am open... I have a small company, that provides legal services. About 6 months ago (I use linux for more than 8 years already) all desktops are running Linux now. The people using those desktops have no prior linux experience. I have tried several distributions, but with every distribution I see problems appear with the people that use it. These problem appear because no distribution is really focused on business use within small and mid-sized companies. I am Debian GNU/Linux Consultant in Strasbourg/Frace and using my own CDD for my cusomers which is a BUSINESS equivalent for Skolelinux debian-edu. My CD provides ALL packages for the installation of Office-Workstations and required server (postgresql, apache, nfs, samba, cups, courier...) humm ... would you like to share? Of course there are some distro's with exactly this goal, however they are usually commercial products/forks. Probably all very good distro's but also awfully expensive, and that makes them not very interesting for small- and mid-sized companies. FullACK I believe there is definetely a 'market' for a business oriented linux based on open source/GPL/Debian social-contract, maintained for and by it's users instead of a commercial base. The open source/GPL/DSC concept works for individuals, so why it wouldn't/couldn't work for businesses? 2800 installations in region Strasbourg(FR), Colmar(FR), Mulhouse(FR), Kehl(DE) Offenburg(DE), Lahr(DE) and Freiburg(DE) give me a ... :-) My goal with this project is to create a CDD that provides it's users with the tools they need to easily install and use the things a small and mid-sized business needs in their working environment. This goes for both server and desktop tasks. A small and mid-sized company often doesn't have a permanent system manager, that's exactly why things have to be simple. Of course it should also include the common office tools, like an office package (openoffice), email, groupware, etc etc. This would be definitivly a business clone of Skolelinux. yes. as i can see, skolelinux has many of this. Maybe some generalization of some features for both use and then special features for the business one would be nice. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
cc'ing debian-custom so we can get off devel. Qua, 2007-04-18 às 22:34 +0200, Andreas Tille escreveu: On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: A cdd would be good for some first testing, but having it included in debian would be great. Argh - the usual missunderstanding: If you use the term Custom Debian Distribution your first Google hit gives the definition: Custom Debian Distribution (CDD): a subset of Debian that is configured to support a particular target group out-of-the-box. So having it included in Debian is solved by definition - and this would be the right thing to do. The mailing list that is relevant for this [EMAIL PROTECTED] it true it's debian, but ... i meant in debian's main (general) distribution, that is, as option in tasksel and not only as meta-package ... but there is no problem. Maybe an tasksel interface for included cdds would be nice :) If you ask me you should read [1] and [2] and finally come up with a proposal on the debian-custom list. I really like your idea. well ... one more to help then :P Kind regards Andreas. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/CustomDebian [2] http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd PS: I really hate that people were able to convince me to agree to the name Custom Debian Distributions for the thingy that was called Debian Internal Projects because it is so terribly missleading that nobody becomes an idea what we really mean by this term. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: it true it's debian, but ... i meant in debian's main (general) distribution, that is, as option in tasksel and not only as meta-package ... but there is no problem. Well, there is definitely more in Debian than you can select via tasksel. ;-)) But your argument has a point and there was a time when I tried to get Debian-Med included into tasksel (see bug #186085). Maybe an tasksel interface for included cdds would be nice :) Some suggestions how to enhance tasksel are given in http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/ch-todo.en.html#s-visibility Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Maybe some kind of proposal to change tsksels behaviour to warn user that the option he has choosen requires more cd's or download of files trought network. tasksel is a good tool, but it really lacks expansibility ... mainly because it was not made with that purpose. At least, we could preseed some options, (like debian-med) but that wouldn't come in tasksel's options, like kde-desktop and xfce-desktop. Qui, 2007-04-19 às 13:31 +0200, Andreas Tille escreveu: On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: it true it's debian, but ... i meant in debian's main (general) distribution, that is, as option in tasksel and not only as meta-package ... but there is no problem. Well, there is definitely more in Debian than you can select via tasksel. ;-)) But your argument has a point and there was a time when I tried to get Debian-Med included into tasksel (see bug #186085). Maybe an tasksel interface for included cdds would be nice :) Some suggestions how to enhance tasksel are given in http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd/ch-todo.en.html#s-visibility Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: At least, we could preseed some options, (like debian-med) but that wouldn't come in tasksel's options, like kde-desktop and xfce-desktop. IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: [x] Desktop environment [x] Gnome [ ] KDE [ ] XFCE # We could provide more than # `This task provides basic desktop software and serves as a basis for the # Gnome and KDE desktop tasks.' # but just the environment the user wants. If nothing of the second # level is selected, we go with the current selection list [ ] Web Server # perhaps rename to Web Application Server [x] Apache [ ] PHP [ ] Zope # Probably there are more things users might need on a # Machine that serves web applications [ ] Print server [ ] DNS server [ ] File server [x] NFS [ ] Samba [ ] Mail server [x] Exim [ ] Postfix # Perhaps we need an exlusively selection feature here because these two # conflicts [ ] SQL database [ ] MySQL [ ] PostgreSQL [ ] Laptop --- now comes the new part [ ] Custom Debian Distribution [ ] Debian-Edu [ ] Debian-Jr. [ ] Debian-Med The (random) alternatives given above (and marked randomly) make clear that the first level is so unspecific that no reasonable selection can be done, because there are quite common alternatives in nearly every section and it is not really clear what becomes installed. So I would regard this as a necessary enhancement to tasksel because I always ended up selecting nothing at all when I installed a new box, because I do not know exactly for instance what database server get's installed (well, I'm lucky enought that postgresql-8.1 is my server of choice but I was not sure whether MySQL is installed in addition, which I do not want nor MySLQ users would regard this entry useful). IMHO this multi level selection is a usual feature of modern install programs (in general) and seems to be absolutely necessary for me. This would more or less solve the CDD problem really simple. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:46:35 +0200 (CEST) Andreas Tille [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: ... [ ] Custom Debian Distribution [ ] Debian-Edu [ ] Debian-Jr. [ ] Debian-Med I like this two-level proposal. But as Luis pointed out, having material on extra CDs or needing the network to install it is a bit of a problem. I don't think a warning alone is sufficient (What is the user supposed to do now? Are they supposed to furnish a network connection where there was none before? Are they supposed to burn extra CDs on the spot?) Anything that is not installable using the selected media should be greyed out. Changing your selected media will make more options appear. I don't know if this is practical, given the number of dependencies that would need to be checked against the selected media before the menu could be drawn. This could make bringing up tasksel rather slow. I guess if it isn't practical, a warning is better than nothing. Of course, this points out again the brittleness of the metapackage way of structuring CDDs. To avoid having to have a full set of CDs to install Debian Jr., I'm seriously considering softening almost every dependency in Debian Jr. from Depends to Recommends. Anyone using aptitude with Recommends installed by default will still be able to install even when not all recommended packages are available. Unfortunately this is hard on the apt-get users who would then apt-get install the junior- packages and find nothing installed by default, but I understand #42266 was tagged fixed-in-experimental last summer, so I hope this is something that will be fixed in Lenny. Ben -- ,-. nSLUGhttp://www.nslug.ns.ca [EMAIL PROTECTED] \`' Debian http://www.debian.org[EMAIL PROTECTED] ` [ gpg 395C F3A4 35D3 D247 1387 2D9E 5A94 F3CA 0B27 13C8 ] [ pgp 7F DA 09 4B BA 2C 0D E0 1B B1 31 ED C6 A9 39 4F ] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Ben Armstrong wrote: But as Luis pointed out, having material on extra CDs or needing the network to install it is a bit of a problem. Well, IMHO shipping Lenny on CDs is a little bit - how to say - oldfashioned, right? I don't think a warning alone is sufficient (What is the user supposed to do now? Are they supposed to furnish a network connection where there was none before? Are they supposed to burn extra CDs on the spot?) I think they probably will install via DVD or network. If tasksel keeps its install from one CD medium philosophy I would regard it as not apropriate to current development even if I would perfectly agree that there should be an option that conserves this behaviour for special cases. We even switched for Etch to hand out DVDs at exhibition boothes and I don't know whether we have statistics about downloads of ISO images that might prove that DVD becomes more attractive than CD. This statistics is probably cluttered by Jigdo users (or are we able to record as well how people create CD or DVD images?). I personally did never downloaded something else than netinstall ISOs. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
On Thursday 19 April 2007 14:46, Andreas Tille wrote: IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: I doubt this is going to happen in the in tasksel. For one thing, its maintainer has quite strong feelings against it. For another thing, a two-level selection is not that easy to implement using the debconf protocol; and you _have_ to use the debconf protocol for integration with the installer. The only way to implement something two-level currently is the way it was done for the list of all countries in D-I. Note that the presentation for that was changed to a collapsible list in the graphical frontend. However, you _can_ use a custom version of tasksel on your CDD with a custom set of tasks as I did for Dzongkha Linux. How that is done is explained here: http://www.dit.gov.bt/admin/index.php/Main_Page:d-i Note that support for scanning and swapping multiple CDs during the installation _is_ a D-I goal for Lenny. Cheers, FJP pgpUDgJ3C8IBl.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Frans Pop escreveu: On Thursday 19 April 2007 14:46, Andreas Tille wrote: IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: I doubt this is going to happen in the in tasksel. For one thing, its maintainer has quite strong feelings against it. For another thing, a two-level selection is not that easy to implement using the debconf protocol; and you _have_ to use the debconf protocol for integration with the installer. The only way to implement something two-level currently is the way it was done for the list of all countries in D-I. Note that the presentation for that was changed to a collapsible list in the graphical frontend. grabbing from here: 1 - i would want that cdd's where instalable trought tasksel. 2 - 2 layer tasks are impossible. Ok. We can live with it. 3 - there are tasks that are only activated trough preseeding. CDDs should have this option. Also, can we arrange some kind of cdds-pre-selection in d-i? One page fter tasksel that would have the cdds listed, or previously. Or at least an yes/no question, do you want to install any CDD? this would make one bad thing. apt would download packages 2 times, but i think that is not that bd. However, you _can_ use a custom version of tasksel on your CDD with a custom set of tasks as I did for Dzongkha Linux. How that is done is explained here: http://www.dit.gov.bt/admin/index.php/Main_Page:d-i Note that support for scanning and swapping multiple CDs during the installation _is_ a D-I goal for Lenny. that would resolve the not in the first CD/DVD problem. Cheers, FJP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Well ... i think you exagerated a little bit. 2 layer is not multiple layer and tasksel is not apt, aptitude or synaptic. but it can be done. I'll give you the desktop task example. there is a team, debian-desktop that supports and organizes all desktop tasks. by this i mean that there should be a team with, for example, apache and zope teams for Web Servers. like frans pop already said, cdebconf protocol is not ready for multilayer. The one layer tasksel is exactly to help user to choose one task and not become undecided if will install gnome or kde. Making things hard, tasksel could be a one layer interface (like it is) with an option for expansion, But i think this would mean that tasksel would be re-written and without using cdebconf's interfaces, which would break d-i, making hard changes in the new cdebconf's protocol. am i right Frans Pop? Andreas Tille escreveu: On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: At least, we could preseed some options, (like debian-med) but that wouldn't come in tasksel's options, like kde-desktop and xfce-desktop. IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: [x] Desktop environment [x] Gnome [ ] KDE [ ] XFCE # We could provide more than # `This task provides basic desktop software and serves as a basis for the # Gnome and KDE desktop tasks.' # but just the environment the user wants. If nothing of the second # level is selected, we go with the current selection list [ ] Web Server # perhaps rename to Web Application Server [x] Apache [ ] PHP [ ] Zope # Probably there are more things users might need on a # Machine that serves web applications [ ] Print server [ ] DNS server [ ] File server [x] NFS [ ] Samba [ ] Mail server [x] Exim [ ] Postfix # Perhaps we need an exlusively selection feature here because these two # conflicts [ ] SQL database [ ] MySQL [ ] PostgreSQL [ ] Laptop --- now comes the new part [ ] Custom Debian Distribution [ ] Debian-Edu [ ] Debian-Jr. [ ] Debian-Med The (random) alternatives given above (and marked randomly) make clear that the first level is so unspecific that no reasonable selection can be done, because there are quite common alternatives in nearly every section and it is not really clear what becomes installed. So I would regard this as a necessary enhancement to tasksel because I always ended up selecting nothing at all when I installed a new box, because I do not know exactly for instance what database server get's installed (well, I'm lucky enought that postgresql-8.1 is my server of choice but I was not sure whether MySQL is installed in addition, which I do not want nor MySLQ users would regard this entry useful). IMHO this multi level selection is a usual feature of modern install programs (in general) and seems to be absolutely necessary for me. This would more or less solve the CDD problem really simple. Kind regards Andreas. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
On Thursday 19 April 2007 16:46, Luis Matos wrote: Also, can we arrange some kind of cdds-pre-selection in d-i? One page fter tasksel that would have the cdds listed, or previously. Or at least an yes/no question, do you want to install any CDD? Note that I'm just thinking out load here. For a real discussion you will have to talk to the tasksel maintainer. It should be possibly to define tasks for CDDs and have them included in tasksel, but I do not think they will ever be displayed by default in the regular tasksel or for regular installations. After all, we are talking about custom debian _distributions_. The next question is if these tasks should be defined on the mirrors as well, or only in the tasksel-data package (or maybe even in separate tasksel-cdd-data packages). Maybe an option would be to have a internal, preseedable template tasksel/context that could be set to Debian, Debian edu, other CDD and that would determine which tasks are displayed. This template could then be preseeded as part of the CD building process, which would also ensure the correct set of tasks is included on the CDs in the preferred order of the CDD. This could even be an higher level alternative to what Joey has just implemented in the latest tasksel release to support the different desktop environments by defining Debian Gnome, Debian KDE and Debian Xfce as contexts. pgpp22djUcIfA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Luis Matos wrote: tasksel is a good tool, but it really lacks expansibility ... mainly because it was not made with that purpose. At least, we could preseed some options, (like debian-med) but that wouldn't come in tasksel's options, like kde-desktop and xfce-desktop. Er, do you know that it's possible to create a deb that, when installed, extends tasksel with any tasks you like? And d-i has hooks to allow a CDD to easily install such debs. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Andreas Tille wrote: IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: I'm afraid that I can't seriously consider this kind of proposal unless it shows indications of taking into account all the issues and design goals listed in http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/tasksel/faq/ -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Ben Armstrong wrote: But as Luis pointed out, having material on extra CDs or needing the network to install it is a bit of a problem. No, it's not, because d-i _first_ lets the user decide how they want to configure apt, and then displays a tasksel that offers only the tasks that are available given their configured apt sources. Its definition of available is that certian key packages in the tasks need to be available. For example, for a gnome destkop, at least gnome-desktop-environment and X need to be available. If the task is available, it can pull in additional software that is part of the task, if those packages are also available. You might find the tasksel documentation useful reading. Of course, this points out again the brittleness of the metapackage way of structuring CDDs. Which is why tasksel has not used metapackages for ~5 years. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Andreas Tille wrote: I think they probably will install via DVD or network. If tasksel keeps its install from one CD medium philosophy Tasksel does not have any such philisophy. apt even supports using debconf to prompt for a CD change. d-i does not currently support scanning more than one CD; patches would be appreciated, but you should probably familiarise yourself with the current code before making even more incorrect comments about it; correcting them is beginning to get a bit old. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Frans Pop wrote: It should be possibly to define tasks for CDDs and have them included in tasksel, but I do not think they will ever be displayed by default in the regular tasksel or for regular installations. After all, we are talking about custom debian _distributions_. I won't say never. After all, tasksel has included tasks for CDDs before. However, customised installation media for CDDs seems to make more sense in general, and tasksel already has support for that, as you noted. The next question is if these tasks should be defined on the mirrors as well, or only in the tasksel-data package (or maybe even in separate tasksel-cdd-data packages). Separate packages seem better to me from a maintenance POV. Having tasksel's own tasks defined in the Packages files that only the ftpmasters can sync up is already annoying enough.. Maybe an option would be to have a internal, preseedable template tasksel/context that could be set to Debian, Debian edu, other CDD and that would determine which tasks are displayed. This template could then be preseeded as part of the CD building process, which would also ensure the correct set of tasks is included on the CDs in the preferred order of the CDD. Setting preseed/early_command to apt-install cdd-tasks would work just as well, no? This could even be an higher level alternative to what Joey has just implemented in the latest tasksel release to support the different desktop environments by defining Debian Gnome, Debian KDE and Debian Xfce as contexts. Probably not, because we may also want to add different subtasks in etch for some other task. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Joey Hess wrote: Er, do you know that it's possible to create a deb that, when installed, extends tasksel with any tasks you like? And d-i has hooks to allow a CDD to easily install such debs. Yes, you are right and I'm even doing this in the med-common package. But I do not really regard this as a really nice solution if those extra tasks are mixed with the default Debian tasks. The resulting list has no logical structure and looks simply strange to an outsider. That's why I would prefer a multi level feature for tasksel as proposed in the separate thread. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Joey Hess wrote: I'm afraid that I can't seriously consider this kind of proposal unless it shows indications of taking into account all the issues and design goals listed in http://kitenet.net/~joey/code/tasksel/faq/ The answer to question one is very compelling if you focus your mind on Gnome or KDE or ... . IMHO it does not work if you look at the SQL database task and sed -e 's/Gnome/PostgreSQL/g' -e 's/KDE/MySQL' in your answer. IMHO the answer covers only one of the usual flame war roots and is not a general answer. I also agree with the answer of question two. Unfortunately question two is not a really good question. I don't know people inside Debian who made an effort over years to optimise Debian for tasks like geneological research / mushroom farming / running a dog walking business / program development / playing pong. If I look through the glasses of Joey NewDebianUser (yes, new users are allowed to have the name Joey, DDs are not any more because of several missunderstandings. ;-)) tasksel is the first interface to the package pool of Debian. This is a very important und very usefull view because it is short enough to read every item and we have a good chance that every user is learning from it. The next view is aptitude / synaptic / whatever. To be successful with these tools you have to know what you are looking for. You are not really able to detect something that you do not know - which is the case for our friend Joey. So my intention is to take Joeys hand and guide him into those topics where people in Debian set a special focus on. You might also name it advertising effect of tasksel where we show what we have. I would hold a bet, that 95% of people who never heard about Debian-Edu, Debian-Jr, Debian-Med before they installed Debian will not know about it after the finished their installation. To question three: While this is more a rhetoric question I think it perfectly expresses your will to not to change tasksel. Well, it's your package and I have no problems to accept your position. Because I know this position I saved my time to report a bug and tried it via the list because I think this is the right time to discuss whether the first grab a new user has to Debian is designed the way we want. Please note: I did not said that it is designed good or bad. For my personal use it is completely useless, but this is no problem because I'm happily running successful scenario 2. But I would like to exchange some ideas whether we really think it fits for most of our users. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Andreas Tille wrote: Yes, you are right and I'm even doing this in the med-common package. But I do not really regard this as a really nice solution if those extra tasks are mixed with the default Debian tasks. Note that you can hide the debian tasks by diverting debian-tasks.desc. This could probably be improved. You can also set your custom tasks to have a higer Relevance than the standard tasks, to make them be displayed first in the list. -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Joey Hess wrote: Andreas Tille wrote: I think they probably will install via DVD or network. If tasksel keeps its install from one CD medium philosophy Tasksel does not have any such philisophy. Quoting from #186085 From: Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Andreas Tille [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Any chance to get Debian-Med added to tasksel? (fwd) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:50:03 -0400 ... There is also the concern that what's in tasksel's tasks can impact what goes onto the first CD, ... ... if those words are said by God (see Q3 of tasksel FAQ) I regard the remainder of the quote although it doesn't have to, and I don't always keep this at the top of my mind when adding new stuff to tasksel tasks. ... as weak enough to draw the conclusion, that tasksel has an install from one CD medium philosophy. apt even supports using debconf to prompt for a CD change. d-i does not currently support scanning more than one CD; patches would be appreciated, but you should probably familiarise yourself with the current code before making even more incorrect comments about it; What I wanted to say is that not everything that is in each single CDD should/can be on the first CD and perhaps it even can not be on the first DVD. In fact from a user point of view I would really hate it if I should change media in the first install step and thus I'm a believer in the words of tasksel-God - at least regarding the point where you told me that I missinterpreted him which sounds perfectly normal in any religion. So if we would be able to find a way to advertise what we have via tasksel, I would think about a way how CDDs could find a reasonable solution to put the main things of each CDD on the first install medium (I continue to like the idea of one medium because I think a DVD has enough room for a main entry point for each CDD which a CD probably has not. If we do not regard this advertising feature of tasksel important enough to find a solution (on the default install medium - I know about the preseeding feature for separate install media) than I have to accept this. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Andreas Tille wrote: Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:50:03 -0400 Little more needs to be said, although you might find tools/update_tasks in debian-cd worthwhile reading (or not). -- see shy jo signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andreas Tille wrote: Yes, you are right and I'm even doing this in the med-common package. But I do not really regard this as a really nice solution if those extra tasks are mixed with the default Debian tasks. Note that you can hide the debian tasks by diverting debian-tasks.desc. This could probably be improved. Or even install a package that provides tasksel-data before installing tasksel. So you'll end up with a complete new set of tasks. -- O T A V I OS A L V A D O R - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] UIN: 5906116 GNU/Linux User: 239058 GPG ID: 49A5F855 Home Page: http://otavio.ossystems.com.br - Microsoft sells you Windows ... Linux gives you the whole house. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Joey Hess wrote: Andreas Tille wrote: Yes, you are right and I'm even doing this in the med-common package. But I do not really regard this as a really nice solution if those extra tasks are mixed with the default Debian tasks. Note that you can hide the debian tasks by diverting debian-tasks.desc. This could probably be improved. Well, I know the diversion concept but it just does not fit what I regard reasonable. The default tasksel list is OK, but needs a feature to add the tasks that were prepared inside Debian in a structured way. You can also set your custom tasks to have a higer Relevance than the standard tasks, to make them be displayed first in the list. I would regard the default as higher relevance and below this come CDDs (in general). So also this feature does not fit my idea of selecting a task - it might be that my idea is a missconception, but there was no argument up to know that convinced me that I'm wrong. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Le Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 02:46:35PM +0200, Andreas Tille a écrit : On Thu, 19 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: At least, we could preseed some options, (like debian-med) but that wouldn't come in tasksel's options, like kde-desktop and xfce-desktop. IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: [x] Desktop environment [x] Gnome [ ] KDE [ ] XFCE ... [ ] SQL database [ ] MySQL [ ] PostgreSQL [ ] Laptop --- now comes the new part [ ] Custom Debian Distribution [ ] Debian-Edu [ ] Debian-Jr. [ ] Debian-Med Hi all, This brainstorming goes in many directions... Great ! I think that the idea of having a tree structure with grey areas is quite interesting. First of all, many users will not see some gray anyway, as they will install Debian from DVD, or from a CD, but with a network connection available. For offline machines using CDs or (small) USB sticks, some areas would be gray, most likely including the CDD part if the install medium has not been customised. The way I see the CDD task working would be to understand the selection of the general tasks above. A Debian-Med install with a server task would install a different subset of Debian-Med metapackages as a Desktop one. Now if I understand correctly, Debconf does not allow two-layer structures... This is the kind of situation where voting in the BTS would be cool. It would give to the debconf maintainers an estimate of how wanted the feature is. Shall we submit a wishlist bug on tasksel, blocked by a withlist but on debconf? Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy http://charles.plessy.org Wako, Saitama, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TaskSel proposal (Was: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business)
Le Thu, Apr 19, 2007 at 04:05:38PM +0200, Frans Pop a écrit : On Thursday 19 April 2007 14:46, Andreas Tille wrote: IMHO the best solution would be if tasksel would have a two level selection: I doubt this is going to happen in the in tasksel. For one thing, its maintainer has quite strong feelings against it. By the way, just a beginner comment: it may be helpful not to assume the readers of -devel to know the Debian Who's Who by heart. Taksel's maintainer is Debian Install System Team, and it has two uploaders, Randolph Chung and Joey Hess. Although I suspected that Joey Hess was The maintainer, your mail made me wonder if you were meaning something elese as its maintainer does not fit a team or two uploaders, until Joey answered... Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy http://charles.plessy.org Wako, Saitama, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
I would like to start a new sub-project called Debian4Business or perhaps Debian-Office.I have a slight preference for the first name, but this is discussable of course. I have a small company, that provides legal services. About 6 months ago (I use linux for more than 8 years already) all desktops are running Linux now. The people using those desktops have no prior linux experience. I have tried several distributions, but with every distribution I see problems appear with the people that use it. These problem appear because no distribution is really focused on business use within small and mid-sized companies. Of course there are some distro's with exactly this goal, however they are usually commercial products/forks. Probably all very good distro's but also awfully expensive, and that makes them not very interesting for small- and mid-sized companies. I believe there is definetely a 'market' for a business oriented linux based on open source/GPL/Debian social-contract, maintained for and by it's users instead of a commercial base. The open source/GPL/DSC concept works for individuals, so why it wouldn't/couldn't work for businesses? My goal with this project is to create a CDD that provides it's users with the tools they need to easily install and use the things a small and mid-sized business needs in their working environment. This goes for both server and desktop tasks. A small and mid-sized company often doesn't have a permanent system manager, that's exactly why things have to be simple. Of course it should also include the common office tools, like an office package (openoffice), email, groupware, etc etc. I would very much like to hear the opinions of the developer community. The first -and very important- step to be taken is to form a group of people that support this goal and are willing to work on it. If there are no major objections I will start to get things going. Regards, Arjan van Eersel Dit bericht is verzonden via mijndomein.nl
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Hi, * [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-04-18 15:26]: I have a small company, that provides legal services. About 6 months ago (I use linux for more than 8 years already) all desktops are running Linux now. And you still use DOS linebreaks? SCNR Nico -- Nico Golde - http://ngolde.de - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - GPG: 0x73647CFF For security reasons, all text in this mail is double-rot13 encrypted. pgpJJbwHtZ7rJ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
Hello there ... Qua, 2007-04-18 às 15:24 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] escreveu: I would like to start a new sub-project called Debian4Business or perhaps Debian-Office.I have a slight preference for the first name, but this is discussable of course. a bit of background. Last week i emailed debian-desktop list to propose as lenny release goal to add a task called enterprise-desktop and also one called enterprise-server, names are not important. I am just giving my support to this. I have a small company, that provides legal services. About 6 months ago (I use linux for more than 8 years already) all desktops are running Linux now. The people using those desktops have no prior linux experience. I have tried several distributions, but with every distribution I see problems appear with the people that use it. These problem appear because no distribution is really focused on business use within small and mid-sized companies. Of course there are some distro's with exactly this goal, however they are usually commercial products/forks. Probably all very good distro's but also awfully expensive, and that makes them not very interesting for small- and mid-sized companies. I believe there is definetely a 'market' for a business oriented linux based on open source/GPL/Debian social-contract, maintained for and by it's users instead of a commercial base. The open source/GPL/DSC concept works for individuals, so why it wouldn't/couldn't work for businesses? I think the majoraty of debian's instalations are in corportive environments, server And/or desktops. So i think that debian should have the goal to give those users a better solution than the general one. My goal with this project is to create a CDD that provides it's users with the tools they need to easily install and use the things a small and mid-sized business needs in their working environment. This goes for both server and desktop tasks. A small and mid-sized company often doesn't have a permanent system manager, that's exactly why things have to be simple. Of course it should also include the common office tools, like an office package (openoffice), email, groupware, etc etc. My first proposal was to create 2 tasks in tasksel. We have desktop task, so we could add an enterprise-desktop task. My point was to provide centralized authentication and information, having something like libpam-ldap and libpam-mount installed and configured by debconf's interface. For -ldap is easy, just now, it just asks for the server, but -mount would mount server partitions as well as user's desktop preferences. Also, it would be given care to the tools and packages included. A cdd would be good for some first testing, but having it included in debian would be great. I would very much like to hear the opinions of the developer community. The first -and very important- step to be taken is to form a group of people that support this goal and are willing to work on it. count with me. If there are no major objections I will start to get things going. Regards, Arjan van Eersel Dit bericht is verzonden via mijndomein.nl best regards Luis Matos -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 15:24 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would like to start a new sub-project called Debian4Business or perhaps Debian-Office.I have a slight preference for the first name, but this is discussable of course. Since your are using Debian as a base, have at it. Do you best. I have a small company, that provides legal services. About 6 months ago (I use linux for more than 8 years already) all desktops are running Linux now. The people using those desktops have no prior linux experience. I have tried several distributions, but with every distribution I see problems appear with the people that use it. These problem appear because no distribution is really focused on business use within small and mid-sized companies. I'd like to know what kind of problem. Just because there are problems with Debian, doesn't mean you can submit wishlist bugs to help make things better for your specific issues you see. Of course there are some distro's with exactly this goal, however they are usually commercial products/forks. Probably all very good distro's but also awfully expensive, and that makes them not very interesting for small- and mid-sized companies. Like... which ones? How do we know which ones you are talking about when you don't specify. Ambiguity really doesn't do anyone any good. I believe there is definetely a 'market' for a business oriented linux based on open source/GPL/Debian social-contract, maintained for and by it's users instead of a commercial base. The open source/GPL/DSC concept works for individuals, so why it wouldn't/couldn't work for businesses? There are already Distro's that do exactly as you say, but maybe perhaps use CentOS or Gentoo as a base. There are ones that provide these things in a Debian platform too. My goal with this project is to create a CDD that provides it's users with the tools they need to easily install and use the things a small and mid-sized business needs in their working environment. This goes for both server and desktop tasks. A small and mid-sized company often doesn't have a permanent system manager, that's exactly why things have to be simple. Of course it should also include the common office tools, like an office package (openoffice), email, groupware, etc etc. Debian has profiles already. You can search for your applications available to Debian using aptitude search yoursearchterm aptitude search groupware gives (showing only meta packages, or primary packages with deps) egroupware phpgroupware But then that misses many of the packages you can build a groupware setup with, like evolution, webcal, exim, etc... I would very much like to hear the opinions of the developer community. The first -and very important- step to be taken is to form a group of people that support this goal and are willing to work on it. Well, there is already work in these kinds of areas, though mainly aimed at the system admin areas, much of the ground work has been done though. [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$ aptitude search dpsyco p dpsyco - Debian packages of system configurations p dpsyco-base - Base package for the debian packages of system configurations p dpsyco-cfengine - Automate applying of cfengine configs p dpsyco-devel- Tools to create configuration packages p dpsyco-lib - Libraries for the debian packages of system configurations p dpsyco-mysql- Automate administration of access to mysql p dpsyco-patch- Automatically patch the debian file-system p dpsyco-samba- Automate administration of access to samba p dpsyco-skel - Automatically install a add-on skeleton p dpsyco-ssh - Automate administration of access via ssh p dpsyco-sudo - Automate administration of sudo privileges You could create suck a package, something like dpsyco-sm-bus-desktop dpsyco-sm-bus-server dpsyco-sm-bus-egroupware dpsyco-sm-bus-accounting dpsyco-sm-bus-legal dpsyco-sm-bus-publishing dpsyco-sm-bus-backup I mean the options are endless with 20 some thousand packages in Debian. If there are no major objections I will start to get things going. Have at it man. Many would love to help you, but a basic frame of reference would be good to start on. And understand you need not build a whole distribution, just a good subset of installed packages and maybe some sane defaults. -- greg, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Novell's Directory Services is a competitive product to Microsoft's Active Directory in much the same way that the Saturn V is a competitive product to those dinky little model rockets that kids light off down at the playfield. -- Thane Walkup signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Proposal for a new CDD sub-project: Debian4Business
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007, Luis Matos wrote: A cdd would be good for some first testing, but having it included in debian would be great. Argh - the usual missunderstanding: If you use the term Custom Debian Distribution your first Google hit gives the definition: Custom Debian Distribution (CDD): a subset of Debian that is configured to support a particular target group out-of-the-box. So having it included in Debian is solved by definition - and this would be the right thing to do. The mailing list that is relevant for this [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you ask me you should read [1] and [2] and finally come up with a proposal on the debian-custom list. I really like your idea. Kind regards Andreas. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/CustomDebian [2] http://people.debian.org/~tille/cdd PS: I really hate that people were able to convince me to agree to the name Custom Debian Distributions for the thingy that was called Debian Internal Projects because it is so terribly missleading that nobody becomes an idea what we really mean by this term. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
