Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
Hi, On Sonntag, 27. Februar 2011, Andrei Popescu wrote: Or just advise sid users to have testing in their sources.list ;) is that something worth to be put on http://www.debian.org/releases/ or http://www.debian.org/releases/sid/ ? It absolutly sounds reasonable to me but I'm not tracking unstable as much as other people here ;) (Else this mail would have been a wishlist bug...) cheers, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
BF == Ben Finney ben+deb...@benfinney.id.au writes: BF Why is Auntie Nelda using the unstable repository? Is she comfortable BF running an OS from a repository with no promises about stability? If BF not, who advised her to do that? Let's find out, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=auntie+nelda http://www.youtube.com/jidanni2#p/c/6E40919035151385/6/Tp8XcAKYsKo :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87lj0zhhs7@jidanni.org
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
jida...@jidanni.org writes: BF == Ben Finney ben+deb...@benfinney.id.au writes: BF Why is Auntie Nelda using the unstable repository? Is she BF comfortable running an OS from a repository with no promises about BF stability? If not, who advised her to do that? Let's find out, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=auntie+nelda http://www.youtube.com/jidanni2#p/c/6E40919035151385/6/Tp8XcAKYsKo :-) Okay. I take it, then, that the “Auntie Nelda uses Debian unstable” use case, in addition to being fictional, is not something any Debian maintainer needs to consider. -- \ “I think there is a world market for maybe five computers.” | `\ —Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943 | _o__) | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87pqqb4r2s@benfinney.id.au
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
On su, 2011-02-27 at 15:49 +0800, jida...@jidanni.org wrote: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable? E.g., bug #615530, #615528. We don't care if something is temporarily uninstallable in unstable. The only way to prevent that from happening would be to keep packages from entering unstable unless all their dependencies are in unstable already, and that would prevent bug fixes from coming into unstable faster. This is important because a source package might produce several binary packages, and some of them might both be fixing bugs and be uninstallable. Unstable is not guaranteed to work at any one time. Any missing dependencies will get dealt with at release time if not earlier. An attempt to make unstable work better would result in development having more obstacles, and thus becoming slower. That would not be a good thing. -- Blog/wiki/website hosting with ikiwiki (free for free software): http://www.branchable.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1298793773.2809.26.ca...@havelock.lan
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote: We don't care if something is temporarily uninstallable in unstable. The only way to prevent that from happening would be to keep packages from entering unstable unless all their dependencies are in unstable already, and that would prevent bug fixes from coming into unstable faster. This is important because a source package might produce several binary packages, and some of them might both be fixing bugs and be uninstallable. Something that might work would be to keep the old source/binary packages around (as well as the new ones) until nothing depends on them. IIRC the release team have the ability to (temporarily) have multiple versions of a source package in testing, perhaps something like that could be added for sid. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTi=fogd2owavjejlfkn8vik0d64gmn17acw8k...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
On Du, 27 feb 11, 16:15:40, Paul Wise wrote: Something that might work would be to keep the old source/binary packages around (as well as the new ones) until nothing depends on them. IIRC the release team have the ability to (temporarily) have multiple versions of a source package in testing, perhaps something like that could be added for sid. Or just advise sid users to have testing in their sources.list ;) Regards, Andrei -- Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers: http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
Well OK, but can't the package owners get a friendly mail once a day yoo hoo Holmes, your package is now broken, lest they relax at the beach totally unaware one day Auntie Nelda might suddenly have the urge to use their package in a hurry? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87bp1xhnrf@jidanni.org
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 04:42:28PM +0800, jida...@jidanni.org wrote: Well OK, but can't the package owners get a friendly mail once a day yoo hoo Holmes, your package is now broken, lest they relax at the beach totally unaware one day Auntie Nelda might suddenly have the urge to use their package in a hurry? If you use Auntie Nelda as synonym for a regular user, we expect those to either deal with the situation (e.g. using snapshot.debian.org) themselves, or using testing. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110227090107.gc3...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 03:49:43PM +0800, jida...@jidanni.org wrote:
Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming
uninstallable? E.g., bug #615530, #615528.
We have tool to detect that and we periodically monitor the
uninstallable packages in the various suites using edos-distcheck:
http://edos.debian.net/
That is not enough to *prevent* the uninstallability, because uploads to
the archive are not transactional (e.g. upload and buildd delays). But
even if they were transactional, trying to prevent (temporary)
uninstallability issues would probably create more probably than it
solves. For instance, it will create a new kind of transition, forcing
people to upload at the same time all the packages needed to avoid
temporary uninstallability (who might be maintained by different
maintainers ...). That might work in more controlled distributions, such
as emdebian who does that, but it's most likely too constraining to
apply to Debian, for little benefit.
An in between solution would be an optional upload time check that will
warn of the temporary uninstallability that an upload will induce. To
have that though, the best way would be support for upload time hooks in
dput. We've discussed that in the past---see #477919---but no one ended
up adding the needed support to dput.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
zack@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Quando anche i santi ti voltano le spalle, | . |. I've fans everywhere
ti resta John Fante -- V. Capossela ...| ..: |.. -- C. Adams
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Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
On 2011-02-27, Paul Wise p...@debian.org wrote: On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 4:02 PM, Lars Wirzenius l...@liw.fi wrote: We don't care if something is temporarily uninstallable in unstable. The only way to prevent that from happening would be to keep packages from entering unstable unless all their dependencies are in unstable already, and that would prevent bug fixes from coming into unstable faster. This is important because a source package might produce several binary packages, and some of them might both be fixing bugs and be uninstallable. Something that might work would be to keep the old source/binary packages around (as well as the new ones) until nothing depends on them. IIRC the release team have the ability to (temporarily) have multiple versions of a source package in testing, perhaps something like that could be added for sid. What we do for some transitions is editing the source package a library package comes from, so that both library revisions (libfoo1 and libfoo2) are considered eligible to stay in testing at the same time. This eases the pain of some transitions. For that to work in sid, as library removal is manual anyway, you need to convince ftp-masters not to remove them when there are still quite a bunch of reverse dependencies. Given that NBS removals should show the rdeps too, it'd only be a policy decision. Kind regards Philipp Kern -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/slrnimk8jn.dss.tr...@kelgar.0x539.de
Re: Aren't there any checks in place to prevent a package from becoming uninstallable?
jida...@jidanni.org writes: Well OK, but can't the package owners get a friendly mail once a day yoo hoo Holmes, your package is now broken They can monitor the package's QA page. lest they relax at the beach totally unaware one day Auntie Nelda might suddenly have the urge to use their package in a hurry? Why is Auntie Nelda using the unstable repository? Is she comfortable running an OS from a repository with no promises about stability? If not, who advised her to do that? -- \ “We must find our way to a time when faith, without evidence, | `\disgraces anyone who would claim it.” —Sam Harris, _The End of | _o__) Faith_, 2004 | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/8762s563tb@benfinney.id.au
