Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:49:44 +1100, Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? Well, for me, were I to try to hack ti to improve it, being in Perl is distinct advantage since I am far more proficient in Perl than in Ruby. manoj -- To follow foolish precedents, and wink With both our eyes, is easier than to think. - William Cowper Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Mon, Dec 06, 2004 at 01:24:32AM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 13:49:44 +1100, Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? Well, for me, were I to try to hack ti to improve it, being in Perl is distinct advantage since I am far more proficient in Perl than in Ruby. That's reasonable, but I'm not sure it should have much bearing on whether to package something. We're talking about backup tools, not code libraries for language X; the principal use of the package is as a tool you run, and if it's a good package, you (as a user rather than as a maintainer) shouldn't need to write code in any language, let alone any *particular* language. You as a user don't get to edit the package anyway; if you're customizing the package locally, it doesn't really matter if Debian distributes it. If there are known deficiencies in the packages attempting to fill this niche, *then* it makes sense to start talking about other options (filing bug reports, submitting patches, or writing/ITPing a replacement). And sure, language choice can make a difference in the install size in embedded systems and thus count as a deficiency, but that doesn't seem to be your point here. -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
* Henning Makholm | Scripsit Charles Fry [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? | | The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented | in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered | it in the first place). | | How would this be relevant to the *user*? Usually I don't care which | languages the software I use is written in, except perhaps when it | breaks and I need to hack the source. Minimize the number of packages installed -- I do care at least. (Which is one of the reasons why I'm using glastree and not pdumpfs.) -- Tollef Fog Heen,''`. UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are : :' : `. `' `-
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 03:27:26PM +0100, Enrico Zini wrote: There were quite many backup programs without the admin::backup tag. Now admin::backup counts 61 packages: good! If someone wants to take care of keeping the admin::backup tag up to date, please send me a note. hdup? -- Francesco P. Lovergine
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 10:48:45AM +0100, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
If someone wants to take care of keeping the admin::backup tag up to
date, please send me a note.
hdup?
It was already tagged, it seems. However, its only tag is admin::backup
at the moment.
If you want to improve it, do:
as root
{apt-get|aptitude} install debtags-edit
debtags update
/as root
as your user
debtags-edit
/as your user
If DEBEMAIL is correctly set, you should see a list of your packages as
soon as the program starts; go through them one by one, and push the
Add button in the top right part of the application to see if there
are things that could be added.
Then, click on File/Mail changes to central database. That's it.
Ciao,
Enrico
--
GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini [EMAIL PROTECTED]
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Thu, 02 Dec 2004, Charles Fry wrote: On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 05:59:09PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? glastree provides a subset of the functionality of dirvish. It is actually most closely related pdumpfs. Like pdumpfs, glastree works locally and not (explicitely) remotely. Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is it different from rsnapshot then? -- PGP signed and encrypted | .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** messages preferred.| : :' : The universal | `. `' Operating System http://www.palfrader.org/ | `-http://www.debian.org/
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 09:31:32AM +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 03:04:15PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: The poor man's daily snapshot, glastree builds live backup trees, with branches for each day. Users directly browse the past to recover older documents or retrieve lost files. Hard links serve to compress out unchanged files, while modified ones are copied verbatim. A prune utility effects a constant, sliding window. Similar to pdumpfs; inspired by Plan9. In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? Or storebackup? (Actually, storebackup's one-line description doesn't really hint at this functionality. But I'm using it to create daily snapshots of remote servers over smbfs and nfs, using hard links to conserve space. It offers sliding window; you can tell it to keep a month of backups, and then weekly after that for 6 months, then monthly etc.) Written in Perl, fwiw (not much I hope). Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 01:49:44PM +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? One may want to use tools written in a language they know, so that if something breaks, it may be easier to fix it. I, for one, do this kind of reasoning, and don't feel much comfortable in running things written in languages I don't know (yet). Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 03:04:15PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: utility effects a constant, sliding window. Similar to pdumpfs; inspired On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 09:31:32AM +1100, Matthew Palmer wrote: In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 09:29:02AM +0100, Peter Palfrader wrote: How is it different from rsnapshot then? On Sat, Dec 04, 2004 at 12:28:12AM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote: Or storebackup? I take the opportunity to thank the contributors of this thread for showing me a list of packages that were missing the admin::backup tag :) While I was at it, I kept on and also found (without admin::backup tag, and with similar backup strategy): backuppc cpbk mirrordir rdiff-backup Similar, but already tagged tools were: faubackup There were quite many backup programs without the admin::backup tag. Now admin::backup counts 61 packages: good! If someone wants to take care of keeping the admin::backup tag up to date, please send me a note. Ciao, Enrico -- GPG key: 1024D/797EBFAB 2000-12-05 Enrico Zini [EMAIL PROTECTED] signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
Well, if one had a small system and desired not to install ruby, it would still be possible to obtain pdumpfs' functionality. Of course that could be called an installation issue rather than a usability issue. 3314kB, including pdumpfs itself. I'll donate a 32MB USB key to store it all on for anyone that is *truly* that starved of space. Meanwhile, what's the total installed space for glastree if you're not a Perl lover? Good point. Size may not be the issue. But simplicity in manually installing on a machine without an internet connection could make a Perl alternative beneficial. Charles -- Start the day the modern way Burma-Shave http://frogcircus.org/burmashave/1939/start_the_day
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? Or storebackup? (Actually, storebackup's one-line description doesn't really hint at this functionality. But I'm using it to create daily snapshots of remote servers over smbfs and nfs, using hard links to conserve space. It offers sliding window; you can tell it to keep a month of backups, and then weekly after that for 6 months, then monthly etc.) Written in Perl, fwiw (not much I hope). This one does indeed seem to fill the niche for which I had turned to glastree. I must admit that I would have benefited from a more thorough Debian reference on available backup alternatives. Not that I have the knowledge to make one myself, but hey. With so many other alternatives, should I simply close my ITP bug, or should I proceed with providing the package? Charles -- Uncle Rube Buys tube One week Looks sleek Like sheik Burma-Shave http://frogcircus.org/burmashave/1930/uncle_rube
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:00:22 +1100, Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3314kB, including pdumpfs itself. I'll donate a 32MB USB key to store it all on for anyone that is *truly* that starved of space. Low-Memory systems are unlikely to have USB. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 07:02:38PM +0100, Marc Haber wrote: On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 15:00:22 +1100, Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3314kB, including pdumpfs itself. I'll donate a 32MB USB key to store it all on for anyone that is *truly* that starved of space. Low-Memory systems are unlikely to have USB. I've got a pile of 1GB and 2GB HDDs here too, or will low memory systems not have IDE either? - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
Matthew Palmer wrote: The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? We're talking about free software. Modifying it to fit your needs is a perfectly valid, indeed encouraged use. Personally, I know perl, but not ruby.
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 07:17:45PM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote: Matthew Palmer wrote: The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? We're talking about free software. Modifying it to fit your needs is a perfectly valid, indeed encouraged use. Personally, I know perl, but not ruby. Sounds like you need to expand your repertoire a bit. I learnt Perl for exactly this reason -- I wanted to modify debconf, so I learnt (enough of) the language to do so. I didn't feel a need to reimplement it in a language I was familiar with first just so I could make my modifications. Can you imagine a world in which your argument was taken at face value? There would be a reimplementation of basically everything in every language under the sun, just so that some random person could avoid learning a new language. Ghods what a hideous mess that would be. - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
Matthew Palmer wrote: Sounds like you need to expand your repertoire a bit. Possibly so, but unfortunately my time is a finite. There are far too many languages (even in debian main) for me to learn them all. Can you imagine a world in which your argument was taken at face value? There would be a reimplementation of basically everything in every language under the sun, just so that some random person could avoid learning a new language. Ghods what a hideous mess that would be. Sounds like ftp.debian.org.
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 03:04:15PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: The poor man's daily snapshot, glastree builds live backup trees, with branches for each day. Users directly browse the past to recover older documents or retrieve lost files. Hard links serve to compress out unchanged files, while modified ones are copied verbatim. A prune utility effects a constant, sliding window. Similar to pdumpfs; inspired by Plan9. In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? glastree provides a subset of the functionality of dirvish. It is actually most closely related pdumpfs. Like pdumpfs, glastree works locally and not (explicitely) remotely. Charles -- A scratchy chin Like bright Pink socks Puts any romance On the rocks Burma-Shave http://frogcircus.org/burmashave/1940/a_scratchy_chin
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 05:59:09PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? glastree provides a subset of the functionality of dirvish. It is actually most closely related pdumpfs. Like pdumpfs, glastree works locally and not (explicitely) remotely. Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 05:59:09PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? glastree provides a subset of the functionality of dirvish. It is actually most closely related pdumpfs. Like pdumpfs, glastree works locally and not (explicitely) remotely. Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). As for using pdumpfs or glastree instead of dirvish, as far as I can tell (not having previously examined dirvish) they require no configuration, and may be simpler to use. dirvish seems to be designed to run from a single backup server for potentially multiple clients. pdumpfs and glastree are designed to be run strictly on a single client. Charles -- Thrifty jars for Stay at homes Handy tubes For him Who roams Burma-Shave http://frogcircus.org/burmashave/1947/thrifty_jars_for
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 07:58:17PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 05:59:09PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: In what ways is this package different to, say, dirvish, which I use in a manner which is, AFAICS, identical to the way this package operates? glastree provides a subset of the functionality of dirvish. It is actually most closely related pdumpfs. Like pdumpfs, glastree works locally and not (explicitely) remotely. Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
Scripsit Charles Fry [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How would this be relevant to the *user*? Usually I don't care which languages the software I use is written in, except perhaps when it breaks and I need to hack the source. However, all languages can be used to write horrible write-only code, so using software written in a known language is no guarantee. -- Henning Makholm Larry wants to replicate all the time ... ah, no, all I meant was that he likes to have a bang everywhere.
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? Well, if one had a small system and desired not to install ruby, it would still be possible to obtain pdumpfs' functionality. Of course that could be called an installation issue rather than a usability issue. Charles -- Shaving brush Is out of date Use the Razor's Perfect mate Burma-Shave http://frogcircus.org/burmashave/1935/shaving_brush
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Thu, Dec 02, 2004 at 10:30:05PM -0500, Charles Fry wrote: Is there any benefit to using glastree over dirvish or pdumpfs? The advantage of using glastree over pdumpfs is that it is implemented in Perl rather than Ruby (this is in fact the reason that I encountered it in the first place). How is that an advantage of use? Well, if one had a small system and desired not to install ruby, it would still be possible to obtain pdumpfs' functionality. Of course that could be called an installation issue rather than a usability issue. 3314kB, including pdumpfs itself. I'll donate a 32MB USB key to store it all on for anyone that is *truly* that starved of space. Meanwhile, what's the total installed space for glastree if you're not a Perl lover? - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
Scripsit Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meanwhile, what's the total installed space for glastree if you're not a Perl lover? Perl-base is 'Proirity: required' and 'Essential: yes'. It doesn't even have to be depended on. -- Henning Makholm It will be useful even at this early stage to review briefly the main features of the universe as they are known today.
Re: Bug#283994: ITP: glastree -- builds live backup trees, with branches for each day
On Fri, Dec 03, 2004 at 04:10:01AM +, Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meanwhile, what's the total installed space for glastree if you're not a Perl lover? Perl-base is 'Proirity: required' and 'Essential: yes'. It doesn't even have to be depended on. So? There's lots more to Perl than perl-base. Glastree may require a pile of extra modules and bits and pieces to run, all of which chew space which you wouldn't need otherwise. This is what I wanted to know. - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature
