Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
Jon Dowland writes ("Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate"):
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:30:36AM +0200, José Luis Tallón wrote:
> > - For Squeeze+1: just drop it
Why would we ever need to drop it ?
> At some point, sqwalk on STDERR on invocation about its
> deprecated-ness? or is that a step too far?
We should continue to make it work as long as it's practical.
Ian.
--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:30:36AM +0200, José Luis Tallón wrote: > >From what was said in this thread, a quite feasible solution could be: > - For Squeeze: a package "ntpdate" which depends on rdate and > provides a wrapper script, used to emulate ntpdate's main functionality > (set the system's clock) in terms of rdate and mark it as deprecated > > - For Squeeze+1: just drop it At some point, sqwalk on STDERR on invocation about its deprecated-ness? or is that a step too far? -- Jon Dowland -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On 2009-04-24 13:53, Frans Pop wrote: On Friday 24 April 2009, Frans Pop wrote: Florian Lohoff wrote: rdate ist not a replacement for ntpdate - it does not use the ntp protocol but the time protocol (builtin inetd) - So making ntpdate depend on rdate is not a solution as it changes the protocol and i dont think all ntp servers also open/support the time protocol. rdate also supports the ntp protocol. From the man page: -n Use SNTP (RFC 2030) instead of the RFC 868 time protocol. And JFYI, since Lenny Debian Installer uses rdate to update the system time during installs (rdate -o 123 -nvv "$server") and we've not seen any issues with that. Something seems seriously wrong with rdate, or how I'm using it... # rdate -ncv -p -o 123 ntp.cox.net Tue Jul 21 08:52:29 CDT 2009 rdate: adjust local clock by 24.000529 seconds # ntpdate -q ntp.cox.net server 68.0.14.76, stratum 1, offset 0.000138, delay 0.06146 21 Jul 08:54:40 ntpdate[5494]: adjust time server 68.0.14.76 offset 0.000138 sec -- Scooty Puff, Sr The Doom-Bringer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
Florian Lohoff wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:30:36AM +0200, José Luis Tallón wrote: > >> - For Squeeze: a package "ntpdate" which depends on rdate and >> provides a wrapper script, used to emulate ntpdate's main functionality >> (set the system's clock) in terms of rdate and mark it as deprecated >> >> - For Squeeze+1: just drop it >> >> >> * I do use ntpdate "regularly" --every time I fiddle with my system's >> clock or check a customer's older server-- for the same purpose that >> weasel gave before. >> > > rdate ist not a replacement for ntpdate - it does not use the ntp > protocol but the time protocol (builtin inetd) - So making > ntpdate depend on rdate is not a solution as it changes the protocol > and i dont think all ntp servers also open/support the time protocol. > > f...@stereo:~$ egrep "^time|^ntp" /etc/services > time37/tcp timserver > time37/udp timserver > ntp 123/tcp > ntp 123/udp # Network Time Protocol > $ apt-cache show rdate [snip] Description: sets the system's date from a remote host rdate displays and sets the local date and time from the host name or address given as the argument. The time source may be an RFC 868 TCP protocol server, which is usually implemented as a built-in service of inetd(8), *or an RFC 2030 protocol SNTP/NTP server*. By default, rdate uses the RFC 868 TCP protocol. I referred to the other possibility, which uses rdate as an (S)NTP client. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Friday 24 April 2009, Frans Pop wrote: > Florian Lohoff wrote: > > rdate ist not a replacement for ntpdate - it does not use the ntp > > protocol but the time protocol (builtin inetd) - So making > > ntpdate depend on rdate is not a solution as it changes the protocol > > and i dont think all ntp servers also open/support the time protocol. > > rdate also supports the ntp protocol. From the man page: > -n Use SNTP (RFC 2030) instead of the RFC 868 time protocol. And JFYI, since Lenny Debian Installer uses rdate to update the system time during installs (rdate -o 123 -nvv "$server") and we've not seen any issues with that. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
Florian Lohoff wrote: > rdate ist not a replacement for ntpdate - it does not use the ntp > protocol but the time protocol (builtin inetd) - So making > ntpdate depend on rdate is not a solution as it changes the protocol > and i dont think all ntp servers also open/support the time protocol. rdate also supports the ntp protocol. From the man page: -n Use SNTP (RFC 2030) instead of the RFC 868 time protocol. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 12:30:36AM +0200, José Luis Tallón wrote: > - For Squeeze: a package "ntpdate" which depends on rdate and > provides a wrapper script, used to emulate ntpdate's main functionality > (set the system's clock) in terms of rdate and mark it as deprecated > > - For Squeeze+1: just drop it > > > * I do use ntpdate "regularly" --every time I fiddle with my system's > clock or check a customer's older server-- for the same purpose that > weasel gave before. rdate ist not a replacement for ntpdate - it does not use the ntp protocol but the time protocol (builtin inetd) - So making ntpdate depend on rdate is not a solution as it changes the protocol and i dont think all ntp servers also open/support the time protocol. f...@stereo:~$ egrep "^time|^ntp" /etc/services time37/tcp timserver time37/udp timserver ntp 123/tcp ntp 123/udp # Network Time Protocol Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:30:36 +0200, José Luis Tallón wrote: > - For Squeeze: a package "ntpdate" which depends on rdate and >provides a wrapper script, used to emulate ntpdate's main functionality >(set the system's clock) in terms of rdate and mark it as deprecated Isn't rdate what we tried to get rid of with ntpdate ten years ago? Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
In article <20090423163842.ge7...@anguilla.noreply.org> you wrote: > I regularly* use ntpdate -u -q -d (unpriv, query, debug). It's useful > for debugging or just querying other ntp servers. Does the ntpd suite > provide anything with similar functionality? I think ntpdc can provide most of that: $ ntpdc -c sysinfo pool.ntp.org system peer: ntps1-1.cs.tu-berlin.de system peer mode: client leap indicator: 00 stratum: 2 precision:-20 root distance:0.01495 s root dispersion: 0.03755 s reference ID: [130.149.17.8] reference time: cd9b909c.32397ba9 Fri, Apr 24 2009 3:13:00.196 system flags: auth monitor ntp kernel stats jitter: 0.006210 s stability:0.000 ppm broadcastdelay: 0.003998 s authdelay:0.01 s Gruss Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
Christian Perrier wrote: > Quoting Peter Eisentraut (pet...@debian.org): > >> Nevertheless, since ntpdate used to be quite popular, I figured I'd better >> ask >> here for objections. >> >> Would there be a possibility to prove some kind of wrapper for those >> among our users who might have various local stuff that are using >> ntpdate ? >> >From what was said in this thread, a quite feasible solution could be: - For Squeeze: a package "ntpdate" which depends on rdate and provides a wrapper script, used to emulate ntpdate's main functionality (set the system's clock) in terms of rdate and mark it as deprecated - For Squeeze+1: just drop it * I do use ntpdate "regularly" --every time I fiddle with my system's clock or check a customer's older server-- for the same purpose that weasel gave before. Regards, J.L. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
Quoting Peter Eisentraut (pet...@debian.org): > Nevertheless, since ntpdate used to be quite popular, I figured I'd better > ask > here for objections. Would there be a possibility to prove some kind of wrapper for those among our users who might have various local stuff that are using ntpdate ? signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 18:19:07 +0200 Stefan Ott wrote: > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 17:45, Peter Eisentraut > wrote: > > > Nevertheless, since ntpdate used to be quite popular, I figured I'd > > better ask here for objections. > > I still use it when a system's clock is way off and I just want it to > be set to the right time, right now. I guess there are options to ntpd > to do that, so maybe a little wrapper script (telling the user about > the appropriate ntpd command, similar to 822-date) might be a nice > idea. It's `ntpd -q'. Possibly you'll also need option `-g'. harry signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Apr 23, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Nevertheless, since ntpdate used to be quite popular, I figured I'd better > ask > here for objections. If it's going to removed from the upstream package then we should follow. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > As described in bug #514318 and elsewhere, the upstream NTP Project has > deprecated the ntpdate program a long time ago, and it may be time to drop it > from the Debian distribution. > Most of the functionality of ntpdate is now provided by ntpd (stepping the > clock without threshold, stepping the clock and exiting without running the > server). The only exception that I'm aware of is that ntpd doesn't support > the use of an outgoing unprivileged port (ntpdate -u). I regularly* use ntpdate -u -q -d (unpriv, query, debug). It's useful for debugging or just querying other ntp servers. Does the ntpd suite provide anything with similar functionality? Cheers, weasel * well, occassionally -- | .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** Peter Palfrader | : :' : The universal http://www.palfrader.org/ | `. `' Operating System | `-http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Do, 23 Apr 2009, Stefan Ott wrote: > On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 17:45, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > > Nevertheless, since ntpdate used to be quite popular, I figured I'd better > > ask > > here for objections. > > I still use it when a system's clock is way off and I just want it to Sorry for chiming in so late. AFAIR there was a move to even remove ntp, now ntpdate. That is not a good idea. > be set to the right time, right now. I guess there are options to ntpd > to do that, so maybe a little wrapper script (telling the user about > the appropriate ntpd command, similar to 822-date) might be a nice > idea. Good option. But what about the ntp removal? Best wishes Norbert --- Dr. Norbert Preining Vienna University of Technology Debian Developer Debian TeX Group gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 --- ZAPHOD Hey, this rock... FORDMarble... ZAPHOD Marble... FORDIce-covered marble... ZAPHOD Right... it's as slippery as... as... What's the slipperiest thing you can think of? FORDAt the moment? This marble. ZAPHOD Right. This marble is as slippery as this marble. --- Zaphod and Ford trying to get a grip on things in --- Brontitall, Fit the Tenth. --- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Considering the removal of ntpdate
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 17:45, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > Nevertheless, since ntpdate used to be quite popular, I figured I'd better ask > here for objections. I still use it when a system's clock is way off and I just want it to be set to the right time, right now. I guess there are options to ntpd to do that, so maybe a little wrapper script (telling the user about the appropriate ntpd command, similar to 822-date) might be a nice idea. cheers -- Stefan Ott http://www.ott.net/ "Tobacco is my favorite vegetable." -- Frank Zappa -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
