Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On 06/06/2013 06:54, Jeremy Stanley wrote: On 2013-06-05 15:02:35 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote: [...] Did I miss anything? I don't understand at all how you could have missed such a prime opportunity to rile up the vi vs. emacs debate while you were at it... or am I showing my age? Oh, good idea. /me files a package removal request on vim. Better alternatives (emacs) exist, and we don't need more than one text editor around. Linux isn't about choice! -- Kind regards, Loong Jin signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
0hi, 2013/6/6 Chow Loong Jin hyper...@debian.org: On 06/06/2013 06:54, Jeremy Stanley wrote: On 2013-06-05 15:02:35 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote: [...] Did I miss anything? I don't understand at all how you could have missed such a prime opportunity to rile up the vi vs. emacs debate while you were at it... or am I showing my age? Oh, good idea. /me files a package removal request on vim. Better alternatives (emacs) exist, and we don't need more than one text editor around. Linux isn't about choice! That's the point: setting any default software is making a choice for others. Is Linux about that? Someone will install a desktop? Fine. Ask him which one, not setting a default one. THAT is a choice. Think about it: setting a default (of any software with alternatives) is to hide a choice. If someone uses only Debian, he's getting Gnome all over the time, maybe he would never know that he could have a choice. How many window-user know that they could replace explorer.exe, Gina.dll? If you are really into having a choice, then you must give the choice and not make it. my 2 cent. Greetings, Björn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAGMPS562AVnU4pxip=s9nngnkqfeve5xn-xqq9oaugm7ui+...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:34:35AM +0200, Bjoern Meier wrote: 0hi, 2013/6/6 Chow Loong Jin hyper...@debian.org: On 06/06/2013 06:54, Jeremy Stanley wrote: On 2013-06-05 15:02:35 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote: [...] Did I miss anything? I don't understand at all how you could have missed such a prime opportunity to rile up the vi vs. emacs debate while you were at it... or am I showing my age? Oh, good idea. /me files a package removal request on vim. Better alternatives (emacs) exist, and we don't need more than one text editor around. Linux isn't about choice! That's the point: setting any default software is making a choice for others. Is Linux about that? Linux isn't 'about' anything. And you just took away my choice of kernel. :-) Someone will install a desktop? Fine. Ask him which one, not setting a default one. THAT is a choice. Choose at the download page. If you present all important alternate packages at installation time, then we have: - init system - desktop environment - mail server - text editor - /bin/sh - high-level package manager, apt vs cupt vs dselect - wait, what if I wanted to install RPMs? - and how rebuilding packages with my chosen optimisations? ... where do we stop? Think about it: setting a default (of any software with alternatives) is to hide a choice. If someone uses only Debian, he's getting Gnome all over the time, maybe he would never know that he could have a choice. Remember when we used to dump the user into dselect at installation time? That gave the user a lot of choice, but it was totally unmanageable. How many window-user know that they could replace explorer.exe, Gina.dll? If you are really into having a choice, then you must give the choice and not make it. It is absolutely the responsibility of a distribution to choose good defaults. Asking questions that users are not equipped to make is one of the major sources of annoyance for users. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking. - Albert Camus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130606163027.gc4...@decadent.org.uk
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Donnerstag, 6. Juni 2013, Russ Allbery wrote: udev sucks! Debian should hire a developer to replace all uses of CDBS with dh! Perl should be replaced with Python in essential! All packages need to switch to 3.0 (quilt)! Native packages should be banned! No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Did I miss anything? popcorn! :-) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201306061850.47751.hol...@layer-acht.org
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
hi, 2013/6/6 Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk: On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:34:35AM +0200, Bjoern Meier wrote: 0hi, 2013/6/6 Chow Loong Jin hyper...@debian.org: On 06/06/2013 06:54, Jeremy Stanley wrote: On 2013-06-05 15:02:35 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote: [...] Did I miss anything? I don't understand at all how you could have missed such a prime opportunity to rile up the vi vs. emacs debate while you were at it... or am I showing my age? Oh, good idea. /me files a package removal request on vim. Better alternatives (emacs) exist, and we don't need more than one text editor around. Linux isn't about choice! That's the point: setting any default software is making a choice for others. Is Linux about that? Linux isn't 'about' anything. And you just took away my choice of kernel. :-) Linux isn't about anything? That hurts. Linux gave me back my PC. Linux gave me knowledge. Linux gave me possibilities. That's what linux is about. Someone will install a desktop? Fine. Ask him which one, not setting a default one. THAT is a choice. Choose at the download page. If you present all important alternate packages at installation time, then we have: - init system - desktop environment - mail server - text editor - /bin/sh - high-level package manager, apt vs cupt vs dselect - wait, what if I wanted to install RPMs? - and how rebuilding packages with my chosen optimisations? ... where do we stop? Freedom is not only that you have a choice, you have to know what your decision and the consequences will be. Unmanageable? Really? I done LFS a weeks ago, was that unmanageable? No. It's not. Yeah Debian is not LFS, but I rember the install-process on potato. That wasn't unmanageable, too. But I take your point. We could not handle all free will AND privide an runnable OS. But a desktop is not a re-install about 5 minutes, it changes a System the whole way. If I had something to say, Debian had a minimalistic ISO, which could be customize and the config could be saved on the website. Like a Restaurant (but more like home) you could order À la carte or reassemble your own Debian. then you downloaded an ISO with the selection and your system will be installed per mirrior. I'm just dreaming ;) Greetings, Björn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cagmps55jc2eyww+wbqhobb_nk8d_bejbks4erhvsecvy0xh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
Bjoern Meier bjoern.me...@gmail.com writes: Freedom is not only that you have a choice, you have to know what your decision and the consequences will be. Unmanageable? Really? I done LFS a weeks ago, was that unmanageable? No. It's not. Yeah Debian is not LFS, but I rember the install-process on potato. That wasn't unmanageable, too. Don't you think it's a little inconsistent to have no trouble with the install process from potato but be complaining about having to use Advanced Settings to change your desktop environment? The Advanced Settings menu is way easier to use than the potato installer! I have a very hard time taking all of these high-minded arguments about freedom seriously when the only problem identified is having some options moved behind an Advanced Settings option. Good heavens. Just do what I do, disable all the helpful package installation during the installer, have it install a minimal system, and then install whatever you want afterwards with aptitude. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87li6nb05j@windlord.stanford.edu
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
hi, 2013/6/6 Russ Allbery r...@debian.org: Bjoern Meier bjoern.me...@gmail.com writes: Freedom is not only that you have a choice, you have to know what your decision and the consequences will be. Unmanageable? Really? I done LFS a weeks ago, was that unmanageable? No. It's not. Yeah Debian is not LFS, but I rember the install-process on potato. That wasn't unmanageable, too. Don't you think it's a little inconsistent to have no trouble with the install process from potato but be complaining about having to use Advanced Settings to change your desktop environment? The Advanced Settings menu is way easier to use than the potato installer! sorry, but: facepalm I have a hard time to take people serious, who just don't want to take an argument on the way they were meant. Of course the potato installer was the way of the doomed, but not unmanageable. Nether is this advanced Settings menu but: is it obvious? No! Has it a good usability? No! It is easy to change? IMHO. yes! That was the reasons why we don't have this potato-installer now (okay not that easy to change). Ok, an example. my Girlfriend was really pissed of Win8. She hate it (for good reasons). She came to me and asked:Can you show me Linux and how it works?. I sweat blood, but I took my honor. After a successful install she said:That's not Linux. The button on the left has no K. First of all she was surprised, that she had the choice to choose her working environment. After that, she was reading about XCFE, KDE, Gnome3 (she doesn't want gnome3 or KDE4, because it was not easy to understand how thinks work). So yes, she had me beside. If she has done this alone, she would have debian thrown away and had a very-hard-to-change-opinion about linux (because she could not be aware that the desktop is a part). The simple method of Tell me what you want could give a Hu? I have a choice? wait a moment Above this, if she choose Gnome3 and find out, it's not hers, she won't be rant Debian for this... Greetings, Björn -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAGMPS54jOaZOZ-hfbyfKW70r-qmf31EXRMPnO=-_brw8px-...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:11:49PM +0200, Bjoern Meier wrote: [...] Ok, an example. my Girlfriend was really pissed of Win8. She hate it (for good reasons). She came to me and asked:Can you show me Linux and how it works?. I sweat blood, but I took my honor. After a successful install she said:That's not Linux. The button on the left has no K. [...] This is a good example of why providing choices can be unhelpful. If someone doesn't know that there are multiple desktop environments available and what the differences are, how will they choose when prompted to do so? Maybe they will go and do the research when they reach that point in the installer, or maybe they will try a different distribution whose installer JFDI. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking. - Albert Camus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130606201350.gd4...@decadent.org.uk
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 09:13:50PM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:11:49PM +0200, Bjoern Meier wrote: [...] Ok, an example. my Girlfriend was really pissed of Win8. She hate it (for good reasons). She came to me and asked:Can you show me Linux and how it works?. I sweat blood, but I took my honor. After a successful install she said:That's not Linux. The button on the left has no K. [...] This is a good example of why providing choices can be unhelpful. If someone doesn't know that there are multiple desktop environments available and what the differences are, how will they choose when prompted to do so? Maybe they will go and do the research when they reach that point in the installer, or maybe they will try a different distribution whose installer JFDI. For a non-technical user, different desktop environments, at least full-blown ones, are for practical purposes whole separate operating systems. On the other hand, if you don't know what an init daemon or a MTA is, you'll be served well with whatever is the default. -- ᛊᚨᚾᛁᛏᚣ᛫ᛁᛊ᛫ᚠᛟᚱ᛫ᚦᛖ᛫ᚹᛖᚨᚲ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130606203430.ge20...@angband.pl
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
I've assisted a number of people with various distributions, and I will tell you right now that there is only one new user-friendly way to do it: provide a DE out of the box, and choose it for them. People will generally not research and do not know which is better. They are willing to try something new (even if it is different than what they thought Linux might be) because they have little to nothing to base it on. It should be trivial to install other DEs as a user starts learning and wishes to experiment, and Debian makes that quite easy to do, overall. If there were any room for usability enhancement, maybe create a friendly application that provides a tour of DE options and gives the user a front-end to installing other choices. OTOH, I could easily argue maintaining that could prove non-trivial (keeping all the messages friendly and the choices sane), and ultimately provide little merit. If the goal is to attract users, it shouldn't be done by plaguing them with a sea of options they are not likely to really understand at install time; it should be by promoting and enhancing the configurability that has made Linux, especially Debian, what it is. Ron Scott-Adams r...@tohuw.net The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is. (Winston Churchill) On Jun 6, 2013, at 16:13 , Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote: On Thu, Jun 06, 2013 at 08:11:49PM +0200, Bjoern Meier wrote: [...] Ok, an example. my Girlfriend was really pissed of Win8. She hate it (for good reasons). She came to me and asked:Can you show me Linux and how it works?. I sweat blood, but I took my honor. After a successful install she said:That's not Linux. The button on the left has no K. [...] This is a good example of why providing choices can be unhelpful. If someone doesn't know that there are multiple desktop environments available and what the differences are, how will they choose when prompted to do so? Maybe they will go and do the research when they reach that point in the installer, or maybe they will try a different distribution whose installer JFDI. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking. - Albert Camus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130606201350.gd4...@decadent.org.uk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/fdeaca59-cefe-43fb-9dd4-20024dff9...@tohuw.net
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
Am 05.06.2013 23:47, schrieb Svante Signell: On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 21:53 +0200, Anton Gladky wrote: Hi, On 06/05/2013 09:15 PM, Bjoern Meier wrote: Gnome3 was controverse discussed in many media, so Take it or make your move and change it? It is that hard, to build a dialog and ask for a desktop? You have the choice, but we already made it for you. if you think, it is easy, why there is no attached patch in your email, which can be discussed? IMHO Gnome3 is nice and makes the work faster. Not everybody agrees to that, there is a split opinion about this. Please lift this discussion a little higher: Which would be the default desktop for jessie? Svante, it's nice that you have an opinion on each and everything. But maybe it would be more productive to talk less and do more? Just a suggestion. Michael -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 23:52 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: Am 05.06.2013 23:47, schrieb Svante Signell: On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 21:53 +0200, Anton Gladky wrote: Hi, ... Svante, it's nice that you have an opinion on each and everything. But maybe it would be more productive to talk less and do more? Just a suggestion. I'm open to suggestions, what do you need help with? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1370469397.4596.7.camel@PackardBell-PC
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com writes: Not everybody agrees to that, there is a split opinion about this. Please lift this discussion a little higher: Which would be the default desktop for jessie? Because we weren't having enough fun with systemd vs. upstart and the MTA discussion. :) Maybe if we can start all the flamewars at once, we'll get destructive interference! udev sucks! Debian should hire a developer to replace all uses of CDBS with dh! Perl should be replaced with Python in essential! All packages need to switch to 3.0 (quilt)! Native packages should be banned! No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Did I miss anything? -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87obbkmd1g@windlord.stanford.edu
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 15:02 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com writes: No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Sorry, I decided not to answer, but I cannot resist this one. It seems overly restrictive. Are you serious, what would be the purpose of such a rule, hampering development? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1370470473.4596.12.camel@PackardBell-PC
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com writes: On Wed, 2013-06-05 at 15:02 -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Sorry, I decided not to answer, but I cannot resist this one. It seems overly restrictive. Are you serious, what would be the purpose of such a rule, hampering development? No, I'm not serious. :) Sorry, I didn't mean to be confusing. I tried to telegraph the joke without ruining it, but it's very difficult to be clear about jokes. That was a list of greatest hits of debian-devel controversies over the past five years; basically, a set of topics that tend to provoke dozens of heated messages. Each of the sentences was basically taking a random, extreme side on some controversial topic. I tried for about a half and half mix of the side I lean towards and the side I disagree with. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87ip1smcd7@windlord.stanford.edu
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On 5 June 2013 23:02, Russ Allbery r...@debian.org wrote: Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com writes: Not everybody agrees to that, there is a split opinion about this. Please lift this discussion a little higher: Which would be the default desktop for jessie? Because we weren't having enough fun with systemd vs. upstart and the MTA discussion. :) Maybe if we can start all the flamewars at once, we'll get destructive interference! udev sucks! Debian should hire a developer to replace all uses of CDBS with dh! Perl should be replaced with Python in essential! All packages need to switch to 3.0 (quilt)! Native packages should be banned! No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Did I miss anything? Both Perl and Python should be replaced by C. Abolish concept of maintainership, simply all DDs have upload rights to all packages collectively. All packages must run dh_autoreconf, no more usage of upstream generated 'configure/config.*/Makefile.in'. Allow source uploads only. And I want hard candy merchandise with debian swirls. Regards, Dmitrijs. ps. every joke has at least a portion of a joke, the rest might actually be true. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/canbhlugozlznr6fuehc1m_gf6vxysnbbnoeauag_odj3qzn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
* Russ Allbery r...@debian.org, 2013-06-05, 15:02: udev sucks! Debian should hire a developer to replace all uses of CDBS with dh! Perl should be replaced with Python in essential! All packages need to switch to 3.0 (quilt)! Native packages should be banned! No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Did I miss anything? The Freeze Was Too Damn Long! -- Jakub Wilk -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130605224209.ga8...@jwilk.net
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On 5 June 2013 23:42, Jakub Wilk jw...@debian.org wrote: * Russ Allbery r...@debian.org, 2013-06-05, 15:02: udev sucks! Debian should hire a developer to replace all uses of CDBS with dh! Perl should be replaced with Python in essential! All packages need to switch to 3.0 (quilt)! Native packages should be banned! No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Did I miss anything? The Freeze Was Too Damn Long! The Unfreeze is getting long now as well. Are we freezing at Debconf? =) Regards, Dmitrijs. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/canbhluhuj9ako2vdaz_oje-3wamw29ajt4hdltayjoqkz_u...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On 2013-06-05 15:02:35 -0700 (-0700), Russ Allbery wrote:
[...]
Did I miss anything?
I don't understand at all how you could have missed such a prime
opportunity to rile up the vi vs. emacs debate while you were at
it... or am I showing my age?
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Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
Am Mittwoch, den 05.06.2013, 15:02 -0700 schrieb Russ Allbery: Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com writes: Not everybody agrees to that, there is a split opinion about this. Please lift this discussion a little higher: Which would be the default desktop for jessie? Because we weren't having enough fun with systemd vs. upstart and the MTA discussion. :) Maybe if we can start all the flamewars at once, we'll get destructive interference! udev sucks! Debian should hire a developer to replace all uses of CDBS with dh! Perl should be replaced with Python in essential! All packages need to switch to 3.0 (quilt)! Native packages should be banned! No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Did I miss anything? Software has bugs (including RC bugs)! Without bugs, we could have 0-day long freezes and could drop testing completely. :) -- Benjamin Drung Debian Ubuntu Developer -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/1370472907.12617.45.camel@deep-thought
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Wed, Jun 05, 2013 at 03:02:35PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote: Did I miss anything? We should seriously start looking at replacing gcc with clang in build-essential in case we run out of flamewars. Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130605230211.gp22...@nighthawk.chemicalconnection.dyndns.org
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Svante Signell wrote: I'm open to suggestions, what do you need help with? There is never any shortage of RC bugs: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6HEFLHezPJpWjA8zZ-7ZX=b9jtqey+_zl+0nbu-wz3...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
Paul Wise p...@debian.org writes: On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 5:56 AM, Svante Signell wrote: I'm open to suggestions, what do you need help with? There is never any shortage of RC bugs: http://bugs.debian.org/release-critical/ http://udd.debian.org/bugs.cgi Help porting Apache modules to Apache 2.4 would be particularly useful right now, I suspect. (Although I haven't followed any broader coordination efforts.) I've done the ones I maintain and added a patch for one more, but I think there are still a bunch that need to be fixed for the 2.4 transition. -- Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org) http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87li6oj752@windlord.stanford.edu
Re: Default desktop for jessie Was: Re: Debian/Wheezy general rant ...
Quoting Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org): udev sucks! Debian should hire a developer to replace all uses of CDBS with dh! Perl should be replaced with Python in essential! All packages need to switch to 3.0 (quilt)! Native packages should be banned! No one should ever be allowed to NMU anything ever if the maintainer says no! Doh. If even Russ starts trolling on -devel, then we really have a problem now..:-) (kidding you, obviously, Russ!) You probably forgot : we should drop toy architectures. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
