Re: ITP lame
On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 10:10:49AM -0500, David Starner wrote: The problem is not patents, it's that this particular patent also applies in Germany, meaning we can't distribute from non-us either. Pandora is not in .de, it's in .nl and is non-us. The issue is .de (and the rest of the world) mirrors. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 WildTHing ok guys .. so whens the next commit :PP taniwha when they come to get me -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
Buddha Buck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand fully that using the name non-US for patent-encumbered software is wrong. However, the machine pandora.debian.org is in an excellent position to also host a non-Software-Patents section of the archive, which can again be subdivided in main, contrib and non-free. If we do that, I suggest that non-Software-Patents is a bad name. Perhaps patented is a better name. Does it have to be tied to patent-problems? What about a more general section named (for example) encumbered? It could then also be used for software with other sorts of local problems -- like indexed games here in germany. Lars -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 01:03:15PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: lame/vorbis works alright. The problem I'm facing is lack of a good CLI ogg player. Whats wrong with ogg123? -- Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Def: Password: The nonsense word taped to the CRT. - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! pgp3TjLjQeKal.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ITP lame
I have one wav file that when vorbis-encoded does not play correctly with ogg123 but plays with the xmms plugin. Plus there is not any native esd support. On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, Michael Beattie wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 01:03:15PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: lame/vorbis works alright. The problem I'm facing is lack of a good CLI ogg player. Whats wrong with ogg123? -- Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Def: Password: The nonsense word taped to the CRT. - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 02:35:00PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have one wav file that when vorbis-encoded does not play correctly with ogg123 but plays with the xmms plugin. Plus there is not any native esd support. My memory is flakey, but I believe there *is* esd support, (libao, a part of the vorbis cvs tree, has multiple output formats) anyway, if you say that the wav file does not play properly, contact the vorbis development team. They would love to hear from you. I will look at a new upload soon -- Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - Where am I? Who are these people? - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! pgpM0yLDRMDQe.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ITP lame
On Sep 04 2000, John O Sullivan wrote: I'm surprised that lame hasn't been packaged already. Was it discussed and rejected previously? Well, there aren't official packages AFAIK, but, for instance, I have a reasonably well-made package of lame 3.86beta and I intend to send upstream some of the modifications I've made... But I'd really love to see an MP3 encoder in Debian. On the other hand, we now have Vorbis (players, plugins for XMMS and encoders) on woody, so the situation is alleviated. But still, MP3s are the de facto standard and I'd love to contribute back to the community as a Debian Developer (I'm not one). []s, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/ Nectar homepage: http://www.linux.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/nectar/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Sep 04 2000, Peter Allen wrote: All vorbis tools are very young, and as most work goes into libvorbis the encoder is missing some features and has a few unwanted features Lame is mature, and although I haven't checked out the ogg encoding bit of lame I guess it has more supported stuff (and fewer bugs) I've been reading the MP3 Encoders mailing list (which focuses on lame) and it seems that the Vorbis bits of lame are quite broken right now depending on the features you use. Anyway, its MP3 section is definitely superior to the alternatives. []s, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/ Nectar homepage: http://www.linux.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/nectar/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Sep 04 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: lame/vorbis works alright. The problem I'm facing is lack of a good CLI ogg player. See the ogg123 package in woody. It works perfectly well with my potato. Of course the other problem is the code not yet being optimised (and I'm not complaining but..) and bogging down my poor P133. Unfortunately, I have no experience here with older processors as my computer is a Pentium MMX 200 (overclocked to 250), so it is quite fast and I wouldn't see the perfomance problems (that's a downside of having a reasonably fast computer). []s, Roger... -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/ Nectar homepage: http://www.linux.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/nectar/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 05:53:32PM -0300, Rogerio Brito [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Of course the other problem is the code not yet being optimised (and I'm not complaining but..) and bogging down my poor P133. Unfortunately, I have no experience here with older processors as my computer is a Pentium MMX 200 (overclocked to 250), so it is quite fast and I wouldn't see the perfomance problems (that's a downside of having a reasonably fast computer). Interesting. On my P166 (no MMX), it ran but consumed essentially 100% of my CPU time to decode a file, so doing anything else with the computer caused breakups. I'm surprised, actually, that you don't see problems; by that standard, shouldn't it be eating at least 50% of your CPU time? Daniel -- /- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] -\ | If you're reading | Human beings were created by water to transport it | | this, you have too | uphill. | |much free time. | | \ Be like the kid in the movie! Play chess! -- http://www.uschess.org ---/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 05:48:36PM -0300, Rogerio Brito [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: But I'd really love to see an MP3 encoder in Debian. On the other hand, we now have Vorbis (players, plugins for XMMS and encoders) on woody, so the situation is alleviated. I think the problem is that free MP3 encoders are illegal in large areas of the world :-( Daniel -- /- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] -\ |f u cn rd ths,|I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not sure.| |u cn gt a jb s| | | a cmptr prgrmr.| | \ News without the $$ -- National Public Radio -- http://www.npr.org / -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 05:48:36PM -0300, Rogerio Brito wrote: But I'd really love to see an MP3 encoder in Debian. On the other hand, we now have Vorbis (players, plugins for XMMS and encoders) on woody, so the situation is alleviated. If it was legal for lame to be distributed with debian, I can tell you now, it would be in the archive overnight. - But it isnt, so it wont. *please* go and read up on the whole issue before complaining.. this topic almost arises more often than the When will kde be in Debian? thread. -- Michael Beattie ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - If at first you don't succeed, you must be using Windows. - Debian GNU/Linux Ooohh You are missing out! pgpojyJk8Ikfq.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ITP lame
On Sep 05, Michael Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it was legal for lame to be distributed with debian, I can tell you now, it would be in the archive overnight. - But it isnt, so it wont. We have pandora for that, and I remember Wichert agreed to this use. What still needs to be done to have a debian section for software covered by software patents? -- ciao, Marco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 02:06:38PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Sep 05, Michael Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If it was legal for lame to be distributed with debian, I can tell you now, it would be in the archive overnight. - But it isnt, so it wont. We have pandora for that, and I remember Wichert agreed to this use. What still needs to be done to have a debian section for software covered by software patents? The problem is not patents, it's that this particular patent also applies in Germany, meaning we can't distribute from non-us either. -- David Starner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http/ftp: dvdeug.dhis.org I knew all of the floors in my high school, and none of the ceilings. - Chris Painter -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 10:10:49AM -0500, David Starner wrote: The problem is not patents, it's that this particular patent also applies in Germany, meaning we can't distribute from non-us either. Yes we can, but not to or from Germany. Non-US is in The Netherlands, which doesn't have software patents. -- The idea is that the first face shown to people is one they can readily accept - a more traditional logo. The lunacy element is only revealed subsequently, via the LunaDude. [excerpted from the Lunatech Identity Manual] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Tue, 5 Sep 2000, Bart Schuller wrote: The problem is not patents, it's that this particular patent also applies in Germany, meaning we can't distribute from non-us either. Yes we can, but not to or from Germany. Non-US is in The Netherlands, which doesn't have software patents. The policy says about non-US: 2.1.5. The non-us server Some programs with cryptographic program code need to be stored on the non-us server because of export restrictions of the U.S. This applies only to packages which contain cryptographic code. A package containing a program with an interface to a cryptographic program or a program that's dynamically linked against a cryptographic library should not be distributed via the non-us server if it is capable of running without the cryptography library or program. The non-US server is only for packages that include cryptographic program code. You are allowed to use all of these packages outside the USA, inside the USA and you may import them into the USA. The only restriction is you can't export them from the USA. Packages in non-US/main are part of Debian. non-US has NOTHING to do with patents or other restrictions on the use of the packages. You are even allowed to use these packages inside the USA. cu, Adrian -- A No uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a Yes merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble. -- Mahatma Ghandi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
Adrian == Adrian Bunk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Adrian The non-US server is only for packages that include Adrian cryptographic program code. Adrian non-US has NOTHING to do with patents or other restrictions Adrian on the use of the packages. You are even allowed to use these Adrian packages inside the USA. IMHO the policy says no such thing. It says that if a package has actual crypto code, it goes in non_US, but packages with no crypto code, just onterfaces to them, need not go into non-US. Policy is not all-encompassing; and since it does not mention patent encumberment, it is perfectly fine for non-US to host them, as long as the local laws that non-US is governed by are not violated. Why should parochial laws prevent this? manoj -- I am approached with the most opposite opinions and advice, and by men who are equally certain that they represent the divine will. I am sure that either the one or the other is mistaken in the belief, and perhaps in some respects, both. I hope it will not be irreverent of me to say that if it is probable that God would reveal his will to others on a point so connected with my duty, it might be supposed he would reveal it directly to me. Abraham Lincoln Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05 CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
[this is debian-devel, where we don't Cc unless explicitly asked] On Tue, Sep 05, 2000 at 05:24:12PM +0200, Adrian Bunk wrote: The policy says about non-US: 2.1.5. The non-us server That's in the context of how to categorize a package, not a list of Debian machines and their one and only purposes. What frustrates me is that there's software that's - useful - free - legal (at least for quite a few millions of people) but not officially available for Debian. I understand fully that using the name non-US for patent-encumbered software is wrong. However, the machine pandora.debian.org is in an excellent position to also host a non-Software-Patents section of the archive, which can again be subdivided in main, contrib and non-free. -- The idea is that the first face shown to people is one they can readily accept - a more traditional logo. The lunacy element is only revealed subsequently, via the LunaDude. [excerpted from the Lunatech Identity Manual] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
At 07:40 PM 9/5/00 +0200, Bart Schuller wrote: What frustrates me is that there's software that's - useful - free - legal (at least for quite a few millions of people) but not officially available for Debian. I understand fully that using the name non-US for patent-encumbered software is wrong. However, the machine pandora.debian.org is in an excellent position to also host a non-Software-Patents section of the archive, which can again be subdivided in main, contrib and non-free. If we do that, I suggest that non-Software-Patents is a bad name. Perhaps patented is a better name. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000, John O Sullivan wrote:
I'm surprised that lame hasn't been packaged already. Was it discussed and
rejected previously?
You're right about the Fraunhofer problem. See the WNPP page at
http://www.debian.org/doc/prospective-packages.html (at the bottom).
Sam.
--
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1024D/29499F61 1999-04-221155 4B19 A50F 1136 6E60 A499 7CF3 F5AF 2949 9F61
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| perl -e 'for(sort()){print pack(H32,$1) if(/^c..\.(\w+)/)}' | gzip -d
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Re: ITP lame
Lame could be compiled with vorbis support enabled and mp3 disabled,
perhaps, and go into unstable/main. But would we have to excise the
mp3-specific parts in the source package in order to do so?
On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Samuel Hocevar wrote:
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000, John O Sullivan wrote:
I'm surprised that lame hasn't been packaged already. Was it discussed and
rejected previously?
You're right about the Fraunhofer problem. See the WNPP page at
http://www.debian.org/doc/prospective-packages.html (at the bottom).
Sam.
--
Samuel Hocevar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.via.ecp.fr/~sam/
1024D/29499F61 1999-04-221155 4B19 A50F 1136 6E60 A499 7CF3 F5AF 2949
9F61
dig goret.org @zoy.org axfr \
| perl -e 'for(sort()){print pack(H32,$1) if(/^c..\.(\w+)/)}' | gzip -d
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Re: ITP lame
On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:37:20AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Lame could be compiled with vorbis support enabled and mp3 disabled, perhaps, and go into unstable/main. But would we have to excise the mp3-specific parts in the source package in order to do so? This is something I've been curious about since noticing that Lame supports Vorbis: why would you use Lame to encode a Vorbis file when Vorbis comes with its own encoder? Am I missing something? Daniel -- /- Daniel Burrows [EMAIL PROTECTED] -\ | This space| We've got nothing to fear but the stuff that we're | | intentionally |afraid of! -- Fluble| |left blank.| | \--- (if (not (understand-this)) (go-to http://www.schemers.org)) / -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
Daniel Burrows wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:37:20AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Lame could be compiled with vorbis support enabled and mp3 disabled, perhaps, and go into unstable/main. But would we have to excise the mp3-specific parts in the source package in order to do so? This is something I've been curious about since noticing that Lame supports Vorbis: why would you use Lame to encode a Vorbis file when Vorbis comes with its own encoder? Am I missing something? All vorbis tools are very young, and as most work goes into libvorbis the encoder is missing some features and has a few unwanted features Lame is mature, and although I haven't checked out the ogg encoding bit of lame I guess it has more supported stuff (and fewer bugs) Peter Allen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP lame
lame/vorbis works alright. The problem I'm facing is lack of a good CLI ogg player. Of course the other problem is the code not yet being optimised (and I'm not complaining but..) and bogging down my poor P133. But then abcde could go into main. ;) On Mon, 4 Sep 2000, Peter Allen wrote: Daniel Burrows wrote: On Mon, Sep 04, 2000 at 08:37:20AM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] was heard to say: Lame could be compiled with vorbis support enabled and mp3 disabled, perhaps, and go into unstable/main. But would we have to excise the mp3-specific parts in the source package in order to do so? This is something I've been curious about since noticing that Lame supports Vorbis: why would you use Lame to encode a Vorbis file when Vorbis comes with its own encoder? Am I missing something? All vorbis tools are very young, and as most work goes into libvorbis the encoder is missing some features and has a few unwanted features Lame is mature, and although I haven't checked out the ogg encoding bit of lame I guess it has more supported stuff (and fewer bugs) Peter Allen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
