Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Lars Wirzenius wrote: I don't like those laws, but publically urging people to violate them isn't going to do anyone any good. Hu? Why should it be illegal to re-sell or outreach a piece of US hardware, which is already imported into a free country, into another free country? However, it's not imported yet for breaking onces head about it anyway. Regards, Daniel -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Daniel Baumann wrote: Lars Wirzenius wrote: I don't like those laws, but publically urging people to violate them isn't going to do anyone any good. Hu? Why should it be illegal to re-sell or outreach a piece of US hardware, which is already imported into a free country, into another free country? However, it's not imported yet for breaking onces head about it anyway. Regards, Daniel I would assume that it'd be illegal for the US company to export it to someone with the knowledge that that person/group/company intends to re-export it to an embargoed nation. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Daniel writes: Why should it be illegal to re-sell or outreach a piece of US hardware, which is already imported into a free country, into another free country? It would be illegal for Intel to send the hardware to someone it knows is going to send it somewhere that it would be illegal for Intel to send it directly. Otherwise the controls would be even more pointless. However, it's not imported yet for breaking onces head about it anyway. We don't even know that the subject hardware would be subject to export controls. There's really no reason for us to concern ourselves about it. BTW the US is not the only country with such laws. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Christian Perrier wrote: We (Debian developers and contributors) certainly all agree on this (or, at least, the vast majority of us). Why then being so complicated? If there is a candidate in a country doomed by US export laws, 'export' the notebook first to someone other and ship if afterwards to Cuba. -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
la, 2005-12-10 kello 10:39 +0100, Daniel Baumann kirjoitti: Christian Perrier wrote: We (Debian developers and contributors) certainly all agree on this (or, at least, the vast majority of us). Why then being so complicated? If there is a candidate in a country doomed by US export laws, 'export' the notebook first to someone other and ship if afterwards to Cuba. If the US law enforcement people learn about it, they will quite probably interpret it as an attempt to circumvent US laws, and act accordingly. That's a pretty fair interpretation, of course, since that is exactly what is going on. I don't like those laws, but publically urging people to violate them isn't going to do anyone any good. -- (def (reverse items) (accumulate (fn (so-far x) (cons x so-far)) nil items)) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Daniel Baumann writes: Why then being so complicated? If there is a candidate in a country doomed by US export laws, 'export' the notebook first to someone other and ship if afterwards to Cuba. This would still violate the export law. Otherwise the law would be even more pointless than it already is. I don't see why we need to concern ourselves about it, though. Intel has lawyers. If they have to disqualify some candidates for legal reasons they can do so without our help. -- John Hasler -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
On Sat, 10 Dec 2005, Daniel Baumann wrote: Why then being so complicated? If there is a candidate in a country doomed by US export laws, 'export' the notebook first to someone other and ship if afterwards to Cuba. Well, this was my first idea as well. Even if I absolutely not like the kind of restrictions the company Intel is pressed under in a non-free country I think we should not try to circumvent the rules under that a generous offer was given. So lets assemble a list first. Wait what happens then. If some of the top 20 persons would be removed because of the rules of a non-free country prevent this lets try to find an alternative in the free world and try to find a solution to serve people who need a box to work for Debian will finally get a box to work for Debian. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
El Jueves, 8 de Diciembre de 2005 7:14, Andreas Schuldei escribió: ... i can try to come up with a list of countries if it helps. For some reason I don't understand, hitting reply on most messages in the list brings up the new message window with the correct To: address (debian-devel@lists.debian.org), but hitting it on yours did not last night. Not until tody I realized about that. So I'm resending the message to the correct address: Does a country considered by the U.S. government as terrorist, or with which having commercial relationships is forbidden for american companies, apply for this offering? I'm far from being interested in these computers, but I think it's worth asking. Note the country in my email address. Regards, Andy.
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:52:07 -0500, Andy Teijelo Pérez wrote El Jueves, 8 de Diciembre de 2005 7:14, Andreas Schuldei escribió: ... i can try to come up with a list of countries if it helps. For some reason I don't understand, hitting reply on most messages in the list brings up the new message window with the correct To: address (debian-devel@lists.debian.org), but hitting it on yours did not last night. Not until tody I realized about that. So I'm resending the message to the correct address: Does a country considered by the U.S. government as terrorist, or with which having commercial relationships is forbidden for american companies, apply for this offering? I'm far from being interested in these computers, but I think it's worth asking. Note the country in my email address. I can almost bet that Cuba is not getting any. .Alejandro Regards, Andy. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
* Andy Teijelo Pérez [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-12-09 11:52:07]: Does a country considered by the U.S. government as terrorist, or with which having commercial relationships is forbidden for american companies, apply for this offering? I got some wise advice about not to make the contry the ulitmate critera (and to NOT give a list of countries). So if there would live a person in cuba working hard on debian and being unable to afford a computer, I would not exclude him because the US government does not like cuba. (I come from the old europe myself, after all. :-) I am not the one makeing the ulitmate decision, though. I just put together the list. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Andreas Schuldei wrote: * Andy Teijelo Pérez [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-12-09 11:52:07]: Does a country considered by the U.S. government as terrorist, or with which having commercial relationships is forbidden for american companies, apply for this offering? I got some wise advice about not to make the contry the ulitmate critera (and to NOT give a list of countries). So if there would live a person in cuba working hard on debian and being unable to afford a computer, I would not exclude him because the US government does not like cuba. (I come from the old europe myself, after all. :-) I couldn't care less about the US government. Is just the fact that if the PC is done in any of the associated countries, they are not allowed to distribute to those countrys. In other words, MIT, Intel, AMD or whoever OEM that is actually part of the US would never be allowed to ship to Cuba. Never. It would have to be all done by some Japan company or so. .Alejandro I am not the one makeing the ulitmate decision, though. I just put together the list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
On Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 12:14:59AM +0100, Andreas Schuldei wrote: having commercial relationships is forbidden for american companies, apply for this offering? I got some wise advice about not to make the contry the ulitmate critera (and to NOT give a list of countries). So if there would live a person in cuba working hard on debian and being unable to afford a computer, I would not exclude him because the US government does not like cuba. (I come from the old europe myself, after all. :-) I am not the one makeing the ulitmate decision, though. I just put together the list. Yeah that would be a real pain to exlude countries because of stupid political 'correctness'. All in all in Free Software movement we don't know what the borders are, do we? regards fEnIo -- ,''`. Bartosz Fenski | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | pgp:0x13fefc40 | irc:fEnIo : :' : 32-050 Skawina - Glowackiego 3/15 - w. malopolskie - Poland `. `' phone:+48602383548 | proud Debian maintainer and user `- http://skawina.eu.org | jid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | rlu:172001 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Yeah that would be a real pain to exlude countries because of stupid political 'correctness'. All in all in Free Software movement we don't know what the borders are, do we? We (Debian developers and contributors) certainly all agree on this (or, at least, the vast majority of us). However, the donator here is a US company which may be restricted by the laws of the United States of America. Whether we like them or not is not really relevant. If Intel cannot donate a computer to a Cuban citizen, there's not much we can do about it, except by asking the same donation to a company that wouldn't be restricted to these exportation laws (such as a Japanese company, maybe...which I'm not even sure of). This certainly does not prevent Andreas to record the name of a Cuban citizen in his list and propose it to Intel which is what I would recommend doing if a Cuban citizen really qualifies for the donation. But we should wait until we know there is *really* someone qualifying for the donation in Cuba, before turning this into a rhetorical case, no? (removing CC to Andreas who certainly reads this list) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
I can´t belive... this is true...2005/12/8, Andreas Schuldei [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Intel is so generous to provide Debian with ten notebooks (besidessome server hardware), which we would like to give to developersin developing countries who- are technically able,- are dedicated to Debian, - would be able to contribute more/better to Debian with thishardware- would not be able to afford a computer, otherwise.If you know such a person, please let me know ASAP. I would liketo have recommendations from others about this person and would need a list of things that person works on in Debian. Given thethin web of trust in those parts of the world it would not berequired for this person to be a Debian Developer, eventhough itwould help. The shipment would happen domestically, so no customs would needto be payed. Please provide the full shipping address, along withthe recommendation.If we receive more then ten recommendations (which i hope for) the Intel representative responsible for Debian would select thereceipients of the notebooks.-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)iD8DBQFDmJLa8g+sC3uDV+URAjlvAJ9HYugEki5cp5Nwu5Fa2tCdbnShBgCfQEx4 BUj8jNX7sLnlgEwImLNTxkI==tCBO-END PGP SIGNATURE--- ICQ 156652591lucas souza fernandes
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 09:08:58PM +0100, Andreas Schuldei wrote: Intel is so generous to provide Debian with ten notebooks (besides some server hardware), which we would like to give to developers in developing countries who What exacly did you mean writing about 'developing countries'? regards fEnIo -- ,''`. Bartosz Fenski | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | pgp:0x13fefc40 | irc:fEnIo : :' : 32-050 Skawina - Glowackiego 3/15 - w. malopolskie - Poland `. `' phone:+48602383548 | proud Debian maintainer and user `- http://skawina.eu.org | jid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | rlu:172001 signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
* Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-12-09 00:30:09]: On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 09:08:58PM +0100, Andreas Schuldei wrote: Intel is so generous to provide Debian with ten notebooks (besides some server hardware), which we would like to give to developers in developing countries who What exacly did you mean writing about 'developing countries'? i meant countries/persons who can not have a hope of buying a computer (but only use one in the computer room in their university or their neighbour's for their debian work) and who's income is so low that they would need many months savings of their complete income to be able to afford a cheap one. i can try to come up with a list of countries if it helps. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Intel notebooks for needy developers in developing countries
Andreas Schuldei wrote: * Bartosz Fenski aka fEnIo [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2005-12-09 00:30:09]: On Thu, Dec 08, 2005 at 09:08:58PM +0100, Andreas Schuldei wrote: Intel is so generous to provide Debian with ten notebooks (besides some server hardware), which we would like to give to developers in developing countries who What exacly did you mean writing about 'developing countries'? i meant countries/persons who can not have a hope of buying a computer (but only use one in the computer room in their university or their neighbour's for their debian work) and who's income is so low that they would need many months savings of their complete income to be able to afford a cheap one. i can try to come up with a list of countries if it helps. Is not about the country. Is the fact that some people can't have the option to choose from a $1200 to a $100 computer. Or maybe, not even that. Don't generalize by saying the name of a country. .Alejandro -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
