Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
Am Dienstag, den 23.12.2008, 17:37 +0100 schrieb Michelle Konzack: Am 2008-12-22 14:37:58, schrieb Paul Wise: I note that Ubuntu has more than an order of magnitude more popcon submitters: Because it is installed and activated by default... (At least on the Machine I have installed for a friend) This is not true on all other systems. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
Am 2008-12-21 10:32:53, schrieb Sven Joachim: At least as far as popcon is concerned, the number of users does not seem to go down. Are you sure? -- In the last 3 month I have added 158 servers which are under my control... If I have time, I will add the 680 Workstations from the CyberCenters in Germany, France, Spain, Morocco, Turkey, Lebanon and Iran... And it seems, there is something rejecting my popcon messages from my 28 servers hosted in the Turkey and Iran. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
Am 2008-12-22 14:37:58, schrieb Paul Wise: I note that Ubuntu has more than an order of magnitude more popcon submitters: Because it is installed and activated by default... (At least on the Machine I have installed for a friend) Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:33:38 +0100 Michelle Konzack linux4miche...@tamay-dogan.net wrote: Am 2008-12-21 10:32:53, schrieb Sven Joachim: At least as far as popcon is concerned, the number of users does not seem to go down. Are you sure? -- In the last 3 month I have added 158 servers which are under my control... If I have time, I will add the 680 Workstations from the CyberCenters in Germany, France, Spain, Morocco, Turkey, Lebanon and Iran... And it seems, there is something rejecting my popcon messages from my 28 servers hosted in the Turkey and Iran. You mean other than the broken cable under the Mediterranean? -- Neil Williams = http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ pgpiPvjPS4XK9.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
Hi Neil, Am 2008-12-23 17:06:33, schrieb Neil Williams: On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:33:38 +0100 Michelle Konzack linux4miche...@tamay-dogan.net wrote: And it seems, there is something rejecting my popcon messages from my 28 servers hosted in the Turkey and Iran. You mean other than the broken cable under the Mediterranean? ;-) You are not the first one asking this... And no, I can not send messages to popcon since more then 4 month. Also I have some strange error messages in my courier logs for popcon%64pgsql.private.tamay-dogan.net popcon%64router.private.tamay-dogan.net popcon%64samba3.private.tamay-dogan.net popcon%64tp570.private.tamay-dogan,net which is a part of my @home network. I have already written a mail to balombe but currently goten no response. Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
In article 20081223184408.ge28...@tamay-dogan.net you wrote: ;-) You are not the first one asking this... And no, I can not send messages to popcon since more then 4 month. Try running: bash -x /etc/cron.weekly/popularity-contest And also check /var/log/popularity-contest if addresses and content looks sane. If that works, check your mail logs. Greetings Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
Am 2008-12-23 20:54:41, schrieb Bernd Eckenfels: In article 20081223184408.ge28...@tamay-dogan.net you wrote: ;-) You are not the first one asking this... And no, I can not send messages to popcon since more then 4 month. Try running: bash -x /etc/cron.weekly/popularity-contest And also check /var/log/popularity-contest if addresses and content looks sane. If that works, check your mail logs. Since I am sending the messages to my self too the copy is: [ STDIN ]--- Received: from tp570.private.tamay-dogan.net (tp570.private.tamay-dogan.net [:::192.168.0.112]) by mail.private.tamay-dogan.net with esmtp; Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:18:20 +0100 id 0002C143.494D7D3C.7DAC Received: by tp570.private.tamay-dogan.net (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:15:07 +0100 Received: by tp570.private.tamay-dogan.net (TDSSMTP outspool); Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:10:12 +0100 From: pop...@tp570.private.x-x.net Sender: pop...@tp570.private.x-x.net To: sur...@popcon.debian.org, pop...@tp570.private.x-x.net Subject: popularity-contest submission Message-ID: bgmco.a.dzc.ztx...@tp570 Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:10:12 +0100 Envelope-to: sur...@popcon.debian.org X-TDMailSerialnumber: 8698824 X-TDMailCount: true POPULARITY-CONTEST-0 TIME:1229814642 ID:a95d4d0a8742437d9494302f05ff19e9 ARCH:i386 POPCONVER:1.28 1229814623 1196097821 ssmtp /usr/sbin/mailq 1229814623 1196096996 procmail /usr/bin/formail 1229814619 1196096059 grep /bin/grep 1229814616 1196096938 coreutils /usr/bin/cut 1229814614 1196096943 dpkg /usr/bin/dpkg-query snip which is probably correct and since I am sending THIS message over the same relay mail.private.tamay-dogan.net I know, my Mailserver is working. Is there someone who can check, whether the messages from my domain are arriving correctly... It seems, courier-mta is trying to deliver the messages several hours without success and then it is working, but I do not know... I am permanent On-Line using my O2-GSM (Germany). Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening Michelle Konzack Systemadministrator 24V Electronic Engineer Tamay Dogan Network Debian GNU/Linux Consultant -- Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/ # Debian GNU/Linux Consultant # Michelle Konzack Apt. 917 ICQ #328449886 +49/177/935194750, rue de Soultz MSN LinuxMichi +33/6/61925193 67100 Strasbourg/France IRC #Debian (irc.icq.com) signature.pgp Description: Digital signature
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
In article 20081223203134.gh28...@tamay-dogan.net you wrote: From: pop...@tp570.private.x-x.net which is probably correct and since I am sending THIS message over the same relay mail.private.tamay-dogan.net I know, my Mailserver is working. You could try to set a different official sender address without the internal domain. It seems, courier-mta is trying to deliver the messages several hours without success and then it is working, but I do not know... I dont know about courier, with exim i can easyly see the delivery to my upstream relay. If it takes longer for your gateway to deliver it, you should see an error message? Gruss Bernd -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On 12/23/08 15:50, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: In article 20081223203134.gh28...@tamay-dogan.net you wrote: From: pop...@tp570.private.x-x.net which is probably correct and since I am sending THIS message over the same relay mail.private.tamay-dogan.net I know, my Mailserver is working. You could try to set a different official sender address without the internal domain. It seems, courier-mta is trying to deliver the messages several hours without success and then it is working, but I do not know... I dont know about courier, with exim i can easyly see the delivery to my upstream relay. If it takes longer for your gateway to deliver it, you should see an error message? Slightly changing topic: with USEHTTP=yes, what do I look for in /var/log/popularity-contest to positively determine whether the info is getting sent? (I've grepped syslog for popularity-contest but don't see anything.) -- Ron Johnson, Jr. Jefferson LA USA I like my women like I like my coffee - purchased at above-market rates from eco-friendly organic farming cooperatives in Latin America. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 04:39:55PM -0600, Ron Johnson wrote: Slightly changing topic: Slightly going off-topic, don't you think? This whole sub-thread looks off-topic to me, but please at least ask further questions on how to use/enable popcon on debian-user. Thanks, Michael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 6:40 AM, Petter Reinholdtsen p...@hungry.com wrote: Looking at URL: http://popcon.debian.org/ , it seem to me that the number of stable installations is dropping fast. The graph popularity-contest versions in use show this, with version 1.41 being the one in stable. When the version in stable, testing and unstable were different (now the same version is in testing and unstable), the approximate relative distribution of submitteres to popcon were for stable 60%, testing 20% and unstable 5% (the rest were non-upgraded installs of various flavour). The number of installations using testing has been slowly increasing, but not enough to compensate for the reduction in stable installations. The net effect is that fewer and fewer are submitting to popcon.debian.org. I suspect this is because Debian is loosing users. :( ...to Gentoo. Oh no, that thread again years later. :P We are definitely loosing users to our arrogance and lack of fun, all in a not so nice package with no innovative features and bugs. Please note that nothing I said comes from you pere. regards, -- Gustavo stratus Franco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
* Petter Reinholdtsen: The number of installations using testing has been slowly increasing, but not enough to compensate for the reduction in stable installations. The net effect is that fewer and fewer are submitting to popcon.debian.org. This doesn't appear in the per-architecture statistics. Are you sure you got your numbers correct? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On 2008-12-21 09:40 +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Looking at URL: http://popcon.debian.org/ , it seem to me that the number of stable installations is dropping fast. The graph popularity-contest versions in use show this, with version 1.41 being the one in stable. When the version in stable, testing and unstable were different (now the same version is in testing and unstable), the approximate relative distribution of submitteres to popcon were for stable 60%, testing 20% and unstable 5% (the rest were non-upgraded installs of various flavour). The number of installations using testing has been slowly increasing, but not enough to compensate for the reduction in stable installations. The net effect is that fewer and fewer are submitting to popcon.debian.org. I don't think this is true. The overall number of submissions is 79000+, a number that has been quite stable for a while (it was slightly lower last summer, probably because of holidays). I suspect this is because Debian is loosing users. :( At least as far as popcon is concerned, the number of users does not seem to go down. Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 09:40:45 +0100 Petter Reinholdtsen p...@hungry.com wrote: The number of installations using testing has been slowly increasing, but not enough to compensate for the reduction in stable installations. The net effect is that fewer and fewer are submitting to popcon.debian.org. Or some people are doing what I did - clean install from stable - testing (to see the new D-I) and not installing popcon. I suspect this is because Debian is loosing users. :( Wasn't there one of these threads a little while ago? kk Happy hacking, -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian user / gNewSense contributor http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
[Florian Weimer] * Petter Reinholdtsen: The number of installations using testing has been slowly increasing, but not enough to compensate for the reduction in stable installations. The net effect is that fewer and fewer are submitting to popcon.debian.org. This doesn't appear in the per-architecture statistics. Are you sure you got your numbers correct? Yes. I get an email with the latest numbers very day. :) Some examples of the total number of submissions (ignoring those with unknown arch - around 200 the last year or so): 2008-09-02 75595 2008-09-15 76712 2008-10-01 76532 2008-10-15 77111 2008-11-01 79441 2008-11-15 79694 2008-12-01 79459 2008-12-15 79262 2008-12-20 79202 As you can see, the number of submissions have dropped the last month. Not by much so far, but it used to increase every week. Happy hacking, -- Petter Reinholdtsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
[Karl Goetz] Or some people are doing what I did - clean install from stable - testing (to see the new D-I) and not installing popcon. Oh, I am sure some people are doing this. But for it to have an effect on the statistics, more people need to do install lenny without enabling popcon than those that earlier installing etch and without enabling popcon, and I am not aware of anything that should cause that. :) Happy hacking, -- Petter Reinholdtsen -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
Petter Reinholdtsen (2008-12-21 14:38 +0100) wrote: [Florian Weimer] This doesn't appear in the per-architecture statistics. Are you sure you got your numbers correct? As you can see, the number of submissions have dropped the last month. Not by much so far, but it used to increase every week. Maybe we want to look at the bigger picture. This is a graph about the number of installations of popularity-contest package from the release of Etch to this day: http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=popularity-contestshow_installed=onfrom_date=2007-04-08to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1 (Obviously this is does not make distinction between stable, testing and unstable.) This time frame tells or suggests that Debian's popularity increased very much after Etch release and it has remained about the same after March/April 2008. It's too early to make any estimations from the last month. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On 2008-12-21 15:14 +0100, Teemu Likonen wrote: Petter Reinholdtsen (2008-12-21 14:38 +0100) wrote: As you can see, the number of submissions have dropped the last month. Not by much so far, but it used to increase every week. Maybe we want to look at the bigger picture. This is a graph about the number of installations of popularity-contest package from the release of Etch to this day: http://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=popularity-contestshow_installed=onfrom_date=2007-04-08to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1 (Obviously this is does not make distinction between stable, testing and unstable.) This time frame tells or suggests that Debian's popularity increased very much after Etch release Not quite true. It tells that the _number of popcon users_ increased, which is small wonder since the Etch installer installs the popularity-contest package by default while the Sarge installer did not. and it has remained about the same after March/April 2008. It's too early to make any estimations from the last month. True. I think we should reevaluate the situation in a year or so when the seasonal effects (e.g., lower numbers because of vacations during northern summer) can be estimated better. Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: 2008-09-02 75595 2008-09-15 76712-- 2008-10-01 76532-- 2008-10-15 77111 2008-11-01 79441 2008-11-15 79694 2008-12-01 79459 2008-12-15 79262 2008-12-20 79202 As you can see, the number of submissions have dropped the last month. Not by much so far, but it used to increase every week. Well, it did not really increased every week (see September - October). We are talking here about numbers 1%. It might happen that somebody installs a cluster of 200 computers by default with popcon and later realised that it does not make sense to run popcon on every node. So there might be other explanations for such a drop and I would starts becoming curous about what's happening once we are droping at about 5% of the maximum. IMHO the best thing we can do about this decreasing popcon numbers is releasing Lenny, right? Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
Petter Reinholdtsen dijo [Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 09:40:45AM +0100]: Looking at URL: http://popcon.debian.org/ , it seem to me that the number of stable installations is dropping fast. The graph popularity-contest versions in use show this, with version 1.41 being the one in stable. (...) The number of installations using testing has been slowly increasing, but not enough to compensate for the reduction in stable installations. The net effect is that fewer and fewer are submitting to popcon.debian.org. I suspect this is because Debian is loosing users. :( While we might be losing users to derivative distributions, that won't take my sleep away. And I'm not only talking about Ubuntu - There are many Debian derivatives with huge install bases (i.e. all the government-funded distributions in different places of the world, or hardware providers shipping Debian-based stuff as Maemo). But as for the distribution of users within Debian itself - I find it a natural, cyclic thing - We announced Testing to be frozen many months ago, and over this time, users have started migrating, as it will not change much. And even if many of us repeat again and again to them that d-i Beta 1, d-i RC1 etc. don't mean Debian Beta 1 or Debian RC1, I see many people asking me for support using such monkiers. Those users will go back to being stable (hopefully) soon. Greetings, -- Gunnar Wolf - gw...@gwolf.org - (+52-55)5623-0154 / 1451-2244 PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23 Fingerprint: 0C79 D2D1 2C4E 9CE4 5973 F800 D80E F35A 8BB5 27AF -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Is The number of stable users dropping fast?
On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 1:49 AM, Gunnar Wolf gw...@gwolf.org wrote: I suspect this is because Debian is loosing users. :( While we might be losing users to derivative distributions, that won't take my sleep away. And I'm not only talking about Ubuntu - I note that Ubuntu has more than an order of magnitude more popcon submitters: http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ 856436 http://popcon.debian.org/ 79359 -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
