Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:27:52 +0200, Philipp Kern pk...@debian.org wrote: On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 08:09:03AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: One example of such a Debianism is the support of the keyscript= option in /etc/crypttab that is not available on Debian systems running systemd with no viable alternatives available. And again, what you are refering to is keyscript= for non-root volumes. It works just fine for / being unlocked through initramfs-tools. I.e. it works fine in the multiple disks in a machine with full-disk encryption case. It does not work where systemd is involved, i.e. bringing them up after the root filesystem has been mounted. I cannot confirm this, but will investigate in due time. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/e1xpn2d-00015c...@swivel.zugschlus.de
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Wednesday, 3 de September de 2014 16:21:31 Svante Signell escribió: [...] should be allowed, and I'm trying to find out how many of debian users and developers are interested in working together with me on such a solution. Best would be to have an option in the installer (hidden by [...] I volunteer to test this, not for contributing (I am not a programmer), for a very simple reason: I do not want my long-running servers (and those of my clients) to be rebooted for something that should be so simple as upgrading a service or applying some non-kernel security patch. I may have (I agree I have) some conservative thinking. I've been well against network-manager messing my interfaces and I'm against systemd as well, but I really think the Unix way, when properly implemented, is the way to go. And if it does not work, make it work instead of building a dinosaur and force dependencies into it (and yes, I'm pointing at you, Gnome Debian packagers, both for network-manager and systemd). In resume: count on me to test and check and report bugs and triage. Noel er Envite signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Thu, 4 Sep 2014 01:07:20 +0200, m...@linux.it (Marco d'Itri) wrote: On Sep 03, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org wrote: Please stop using graphs showing how various teams have forced systemd onto users' systems as if it is somehow a democratic endorsement of the outcome. I am not sure about how the concept of democracy applies to this, but the graph clearly shows that nobody is being forced to do anything and indeed about 4000 users choose to install systemd-shim and to not use systemd. I would like to know how many of those 4000 users had to install systemd-shim to get vital functionality back that - originated from a Debianism in sysvinit - was - rightfully - not on the agenda of systemd since it was a Debianism - is still being ignored by the people reponsible to _integrate_ systemd with Debian. One example of such a Debianism is the support of the keyscript= option in /etc/crypttab that is not available on Debian systems running systemd with no viable alternatives available. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber |Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Mannheim, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom | http://www.zugschlus.de/ Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG Rightful Heir | Fon: *49 621 72739834 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/e1xpqeb-0002bx...@swivel.zugschlus.de
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 08:09:03AM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: One example of such a Debianism is the support of the keyscript= option in /etc/crypttab that is not available on Debian systems running systemd with no viable alternatives available. And again, what you are refering to is keyscript= for non-root volumes. It works just fine for / being unlocked through initramfs-tools. I.e. it works fine in the multiple disks in a machine with full-disk encryption case. It does not work where systemd is involved, i.e. bringing them up after the root filesystem has been mounted. Kind regards Philipp Kern signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 16:03 +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: Svante Signell dixit: It would be nice to have the same init system:sysv-core, as well as the same default desktop:mate-desktop-environment (including accessibility enhancements), for all arches: Linux, kFreeBSD and Hurd :-) If possible, this could be an option in the advanced menu of the installer. Right, but we need multiselect. For example, the user may want to choose a desktop, an init system, and another option. Some food for thought about systemd: You might have seen this http://ewontfix.com/14 but have you seen this http://ewontfix.com/15 or this http://boycottsystemd.org/ Having a systemd-free option for Debian Jessie is becoming more and more important. Otherwise (Debian) users might do as recommended in the third link: Boycott distros that use systemd. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1409735490.10679.32.ca...@g3620.my.own.domain
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
In other news for Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:11:30AM +0200, Svante Signell has been seen typing: Some food for thought about systemd: ... I thought we'd all agreed to stop bringing up tired arguments that nobody but the systemd MUST DIE crowd really wants to hear anymore. You might have seen this http://ewontfix.com/14 but have you seen this http://ewontfix.com/15 or this http://boycottsystemd.org/ Open source Tea Party. That explains *so* much... Having a systemd-free option for Debian Jessie is becoming more and more important. Otherwise (Debian) users might do as recommended in the third link: Boycott distros that use systemd. If we keep systemd, people who want to boycott systemd will boycott us. Seriously, can we stop with the circular arguments as well? -- Rens Houben |opinions are mine Resident linux guru and sysadmin | if my employers have one Systemec Internet Services. |they'll tell you themselves PGP key at http://proteus.systemec.nl/~shadur/shadur.key.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140903093421.ga25...@proteus.systemec.nl
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Hi! I'm wondering here... Lets suppose I NEED to use sysvinit, with Debian 8. If so, can I just run: `apt-get install sysvinit-core` to get rid of systemd as my INIT? If yes, will this be support until... Let's say, Debian kFreeBSD still remains around...? Also, why not have a system like /etc/alternatives, or dpkg-reconfogure alt-init (just like dpkg-reconfigure gdm/kdm),so people can still choose between sysvinit / systemd as their default INIT? Maybe during install time!? Listen, I'm not a systemd-hater (or lover) but, I'm just saying that, for safety, I think we need to keep `sysvinit-core` working until ~2020. Just in case... I'm not saying NO to systemd, I'm just saying, not now (specially if it if brings some level of instability here and there)... Long life to Debian / Ubuntu! BTW, my first message to this list... :-) Thanks! Thiago On 3 September 2014 06:34, Rens Houben sha...@systemec.nl wrote: In other news for Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:11:30AM +0200, Svante Signell has been seen typing: Some food for thought about systemd: ... I thought we'd all agreed to stop bringing up tired arguments that nobody but the systemd MUST DIE crowd really wants to hear anymore. You might have seen this http://ewontfix.com/14 but have you seen this http://ewontfix.com/15 or this http://boycottsystemd.org/ Open source Tea Party. That explains *so* much... Having a systemd-free option for Debian Jessie is becoming more and more important. Otherwise (Debian) users might do as recommended in the third link: Boycott distros that use systemd. If we keep systemd, people who want to boycott systemd will boycott us. Seriously, can we stop with the circular arguments as well? -- Rens Houben |opinions are mine Resident linux guru and sysadmin | if my employers have one Systemec Internet Services. |they'll tell you themselves PGP key at http://proteus.systemec.nl/~shadur/shadur.key.asc -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140903093421.ga25...@proteus.systemec.nl
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
I'm sure we've been over this many times already. On 03/09/14 13:24, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote: If so, can I just run: `apt-get install sysvinit-core` to get rid of systemd as my INIT? Yes. If yes, will this be support until... Let's say, Debian kFreeBSD still remains around...? That's up to the sysvinit and systemd-shim maintainers and how well they can keep those packages working. If systemd-shim ceases to be a viable alternative way to run systemd-logind, then you might lose other packages as a result of this dependency stack: (stuff that needs logind) - libpam-systemd - systemd-sysv | systemd-shim (as part of the general principles of things that don't work get dropped and things that depend on particular functionality should depend on the package providing that functionality) If your system doesn't contain anything that needs systemd-logind, then that dependency stack doesn't exist on your system. Also, why not have a system like /etc/alternatives, or dpkg-reconfogure alt-init (just like dpkg-reconfigure gdm/kdm) Because not all of the alternatives are equally technically suitable for everything. With alternatives, there would be no way to express the dependency relationship package foo really does need systemd to be pid 1 (or conversely, foo needs sysvinit-core to be pid 1, which should probably be the case where e.g. foo = rcconf). Currently that's spelled like foo Depends: systemd-sysv; but if systemd-sysv and sysvinit-core were co-installable, and you had systemd-sysv and sysvinit-core installed and sysvinit-core selected to provide the alternatives, then the dependency would be satisfied, but foo wouldn't work. S -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/540724f3.4080...@debian.org
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Hi Svante, On Mittwoch, 3. September 2014, Svante Signell wrote: Some food for thought about systemd: You might have seen this http://ewontfix.com/14 but have you seen this http://ewontfix.com/15 or this http://boycottsystemd.org/ Having a systemd-free option for Debian Jessie is becoming more and more important. Otherwise (Debian) users might do as recommended in the third link: Boycott distros that use systemd. debian-devel@ is for the development of the Debian distribution, not for ranting. Please take your rants elsewhere. It's tiring and a waste of your and many other peoples time. But it wont change things. Code changes things in Debian. thxgoodybe, Holger signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Sep 03, Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: Having a systemd-free option for Debian Jessie is becoming more and more important. Otherwise (Debian) users might do as recommended in the third link: Boycott distros that use systemd. And I strongly encourage them to do this: we aim to be universal but we cannot reasonably fit everybody's needs. https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc+sysvinit-core+systemd-shimshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1 -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 10:45 -0400, Holger Levsen wrote: Hi Svante, On Mittwoch, 3. September 2014, Svante Signell wrote: Some food for thought about systemd: You might have seen this http://ewontfix.com/14 but have you seen this http://ewontfix.com/15 or this http://boycottsystemd.org/ Having a systemd-free option for Debian Jessie is becoming more and more important. Otherwise (Debian) users might do as recommended in the third link: Boycott distros that use systemd. debian-devel@ is for the development of the Debian distribution, not for ranting. Please take your rants elsewhere. It's tiring and a waste of your and many other peoples time. But it wont change things. Code changes things in Debian. Ok, these locks was maybe a little to much for some people. I'm sorry for that. Anyway the TC decision remains that alternative init system should be allowed, and I'm trying to find out how many of debian users and developers are interested in working together with me on such a solution. Best would be to have an option in the installer (hidden by default). So this question _is_ relevant here for development of the Debian distribution: debian-devel. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1409757691.10679.44.ca...@g3620.my.own.domain
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 05:11:43PM +0200, Marco d'Itri wrote: On Sep 03, Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com wrote: Having a systemd-free option for Debian Jessie is becoming more and more important. Otherwise (Debian) users might do as recommended in the third link: Boycott distros that use systemd. And I strongly encourage them to do this: we aim to be universal but we cannot reasonably fit everybody's needs. https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc+sysvinit-core+systemd-shimshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1 Please stop using graphs showing how various teams have forced systemd onto users' systems as if it is somehow a democratic endorsement of the outcome. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Sep 03, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org wrote: https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc+sysvinit-core+systemd-shimshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1 Please stop using graphs showing how various teams have forced systemd onto users' systems as if it is somehow a democratic endorsement of the outcome. I am not sure about how the concept of democracy applies to this, but the graph clearly shows that nobody is being forced to do anything and indeed about 4000 users choose to install systemd-shim and to not use systemd. -- ciao, Marco signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
El mié, 3 de sep 2014 a las 4:07 , Marco d'Itri m...@linux.it escribió: On Sep 03, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org wrote: https://qa.debian.org/popcon-graph.php?packages=systemd-sysv+upstart+openrc+sysvinit-core+systemd-shimshow_installed=onwant_legend=onwant_ticks=onfrom_date=2014-01-01to_date=hlght_date=date_fmt=%25Y-%25mbeenhere=1 Please stop using graphs showing how various teams have forced systemd onto users' systems as if it is somehow a democratic endorsement of the outcome. I am not sure about how the concept of democracy applies to this, but the graph clearly shows that nobody is being forced to do anything and indeed about 4000 users choose to install systemd-shim and to not use systemd. Ok, let me explain Steve's POV. Many packages depended on libpam-systemd before systemd-shim was ever in the archive, leading to systemd-sysv being installed by a normal dist-upgrade on Sid (and, although I am not sure, testing). The alternative was often to have GNOME or Network Manager removed, two very popular packages (and the latter quite important). Even after systemd-shim was uploaded to the archive (still at logind v204 here), libpam-systemd depended on systemd-sysv | systemd-shim. This meant that users' systems would switch init systems on a normal dist-upgrade *unless* they manually intervened and knew which package they had to install to avoid that. Finally, systemd v208 was uploaded to unstable with an unconditional dependency on systemd-sysv. All of these actions led to users experiencing a change of init system before they had taken action to change init systems, which means that the graphs are not reliable in claiming that the majority of users wanted systemd as their init system. I can not speak for Steve, but I recognize that some or all of those actions above were called for. The final one especially (systemd v208 upload), since their was ample warning and communication (something like one or two months I think), the move was a long time coming, and systemd was chosen as the default init system by then (not true for the other two actions). I hope that helps you understand how the graph does not depict how many users elected to use systemd as their init system. Best regards, -- Cameron Norman
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Steven Chamberlain wrote: rejected. I hope a Blend would be a more constructive approach. I'm thinking sysvinit would be the easiest 'flavour' to implement for Actually, I think it’s the hardest one. All others will be task selections run after debootstrap. Changing the init system in d-i would be done by passing --include=sysvinit-core --exclude=systemd-sysv and things like that (the exact set to be determined by people in the know). Oh, and afterwards ensure systemd is not re-added. The prevent-systemd-* package set can do this in three steps, although I don’t currently see even prevent-systemd-running (Conflicts mostly with systemd-sysv) being accepted, so you’d have to pregenerate some APT pinning configuration and hope it holds. bye, //mirabilos -- Yes, I hate users and I want them to suffer. -- Marco d'Itri on gmane.linux.debian.devel.general -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.11.1409021313070.22...@tglase.lan.tarent.de
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On 09/02/2014 13:15, Thorsten Glaser wrote: Oh, and afterwards ensure systemd is not re-added. The prevent-systemd-* package set can do this in three steps, although I don’t currently see even prevent-systemd-running (Conflicts mostly with systemd-sysv) being accepted, so you’d have to pregenerate some APT pinning configuration and hope it holds. Do you suggest to also add pinning configuration in order to prevent sysvinit or upstart being installed accidently by default? It's not in most users' interest to switch init systems without intention, but could happen in unstable when dependencies are temporarily not satifiable otherwise... scnr, Ansgar -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5405ac98.3040...@debian.org
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 13:15 +0200, Thorsten Glaser wrote: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Steven Chamberlain wrote: rejected. I hope a Blend would be a more constructive approach. I'm thinking sysvinit would be the easiest 'flavour' to implement for Actually, I think it’s the hardest one. All others will be task selections run after debootstrap. Changing the init system in d-i would be done by passing --include=sysvinit-core --exclude=systemd-sysv and things like that (the exact set to be determined by people in the know). Oh, and afterwards ensure systemd is not re-added. The prevent-systemd-* package set can do this in three steps, although I don’t currently see even prevent-systemd-running (Conflicts mostly with systemd-sysv) being accepted, so you’d have to pregenerate some APT pinning configuration and hope it holds. It would be nice to have the same init system:sysv-core, as well as the same default desktop:mate-desktop-environment (including accessibility enhancements), for all arches: Linux, kFreeBSD and Hurd :-) If possible, this could be an option in the advanced menu of the installer. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1409663073.10679.18.ca...@g3620.my.own.domain
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Svante Signell dixit: It would be nice to have the same init system:sysv-core, as well as the same default desktop:mate-desktop-environment (including accessibility enhancements), for all arches: Linux, kFreeBSD and Hurd :-) If possible, this could be an option in the advanced menu of the installer. Right, but we need multiselect. For example, the user may want to choose a desktop, an init system, and another option. This is like with the Grml boot menu, which always annoys me as I cannot select, for example, toram and nofb at the same time without manually editing the command line. (And even with nofb, sometimes I get more than 80x25… but that’s neither here nor there.) We need additive choices. On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, Ansgar Burchardt wrote: Do you suggest to also add pinning configuration in order to prevent sysvinit or upstart being installed accidently by default? Probably. At least when the user made an active decision to choose one init system during installation, no matter which one they chose. It's not in most users' interest to switch init systems without intention, but could happen in unstable when dependencies are temporarily not satifiable otherwise... Indeed. scnr, Schulljung? :D bye, //mirabilos -- «MyISAM tables -will- get corrupted eventually. This is a fact of life. » “mysql is about as much database as ms access” – “MSSQL at least descends from a database” “it's a rebranded SyBase” “MySQL however was born from a flatfile and went downhill from there” – “at least jetDB doesn’t claim to be a database” ‣‣‣ Please, http://deb.li/mysql and MariaDB, finally die! -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.11.1409021601110.22...@tglase.lan.tarent.de
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Hi Steven, On So 31 Aug 2014 02:20:08 CEST, Steven Chamberlain wrote: Hi, On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:46:28 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: [...] only way to do that now is to install with the installer, getting systemd-sysv as PID 1, and later install sysvinit-core, systemd-shim etc? I've been dreaming of #758116 (allowing to select Debian Blends selection during installation) and having as one of the options, a new Blend perhaps called Debian alt-init, with one of more 'flavours' that each would install an alternative init system and its dependencies. That would happen after d-i has already installed the base system, including systemd packages, but the idea is that those would be removed before the installed system is booted for the first time. Could it really be this simple? Is anyone crazy enough to help make this happen? And a sponsor who could help with an ITP? I've put together the beginnings of a Blends package here, completely untested yet but just in the hope of maybe getting something started: http://pyro.eu.org/debian/pool/main/d/debian-altinit/ Thanks, Regards, as I am currently working on a thinclient environment for X2Go which needs such an alt-init approach beyond wheezy, I will be happy to help-out with sponsoring and testing. Greets, Mike -- DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby fon: +49 (1520) 1976 148 GnuPG Key ID 0x25771B31 mail: mike.gabr...@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xfb pgpLhX9VwnpWS.pgp Description: Digitale PGP-Signatur
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Am 01.09.2014 12:42, schrieb Mike Gabriel: as I am currently working on a thinclient environment for X2Go which needs such an alt-init approach beyond wheezy, I will be happy to help-out with sponsoring and testing. Just curious: Why does X2Go/your thinclient environment need an alternative init? Would be interested to know more about the technical problems you are having. -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Hello, On 01/09/14 11:42, Mike Gabriel wrote: as I am currently working on a thinclient environment for X2Go which needs such an alt-init approach beyond wheezy, I will be happy to help-out with sponsoring and testing. Great! I was quite sure there will be users who need such a setup for backward-compatibility. d-i support for Blends sounds like a really easy way that doesn't require custom install discs. (If other people have good uses cases for this, please mention them). The systemd-must-die 'anti-package' tried to do this another way and was rejected. I hope a Blend would be a more constructive approach. I'm thinking sysvinit would be the easiest 'flavour' to implement for jessie, but others are possible, probably only using legacy Sys-V init compatibility rather than native service files, for now. sysvinit scripts will still be in use on the kfreebsd and hurd ports for jessie, so most packages will still ship them even if they have systemd units also. We have a tech-ctte resolution in our favour, that reasonable changes should be accepted into packages to make sure alternative init systems work. I don't currently expect GNOME to work properly without systemd, I'd prefer to focus on other desktops instead, but if GNOME's basic functionality still works that would be nice. (I wonder if the bugreport template could mention if a non-default init system is used). I'm going to have a read over ITP procedure, mentors.d.n and Blends documentation and then I will get back to you. Thanks! Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
On Mo 01 Sep 2014 13:10:21 CEST, Steven Chamberlain wrote: [...] I'm going to have a read over ITP procedure, mentors.d.n and Blends documentation and then I will get back to you. Great. Please do! Mike -- DAS-NETZWERKTEAM mike gabriel, herweg 7, 24357 fleckeby fon: +49 (1520) 1976 148 GnuPG Key ID 0x25771B31 mail: mike.gabr...@das-netzwerkteam.de, http://das-netzwerkteam.de freeBusy: https://mail.das-netzwerkteam.de/freebusy/m.gabriel%40das-netzwerkteam.de.xfb pgpgqsMGP6PNz.pgp Description: Digitale PGP-Signatur
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Hi, On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 10:46:28 +0200, Svante Signell wrote: [...] only way to do that now is to install with the installer, getting systemd-sysv as PID 1, and later install sysvinit-core, systemd-shim etc? I've been dreaming of #758116 (allowing to select Debian Blends selection during installation) and having as one of the options, a new Blend perhaps called Debian alt-init, with one of more 'flavours' that each would install an alternative init system and its dependencies. That would happen after d-i has already installed the base system, including systemd packages, but the idea is that those would be removed before the installed system is booted for the first time. Could it really be this simple? Is anyone crazy enough to help make this happen? And a sponsor who could help with an ITP? I've put together the beginnings of a Blends package here, completely untested yet but just in the hope of maybe getting something started: http://pyro.eu.org/debian/pool/main/d/debian-altinit/ Thanks, Regards, -- Steven Chamberlain ste...@pyro.eu.org signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Jessie without systemd as PID 1?
Svante Signell svante.sign...@gmail.com (2014-08-29): I'm about to install Debian Jessie/testing on a brand new (powerful) computer and don't want to have systemd running as PID 1. Is the only way to do that now is to install with the installer, getting systemd-sysv as PID 1, and later install sysvinit-core, systemd-shim etc? I suppose that's correct. systemd is installed during the bootstrap phase (see https://lists.debian.org/debian-boot/2014/08/msg00242.html and follow-up). Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
