Re: Lenovo and forced labor [was: Re: Lenovo discount portal update (and a few other things)]
Hi, Quoting Tomas Pospisek (2020-09-03 10:47:06) > I think before jumping on this offer, one should consider this: > https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale I think this is an important aspect to consider. Thanks a lot for bringing it up! Just as when we buy clothing or food, we often do not consider the circumstances in which our consumer electronics were produced. Quoting jathan (2020-09-03 16:45:56) > If you need a laptop and do not want to buy a new one from Lenovo, I suggest > to you to buy a Librem 14 or 15 of Purism: > https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ Purism has this on their homepage: https://puri.sm/about/manufacturing-and-sourcing/ > And as another option you could buy a used Lenovo ThinkPad laptop in good > conditions from someone in Internet, That's what I have been doing. My last Lenovo Laptops have costed me 150 EUR off ebay and I see no reason anymore to buy my personal hardware new instead of used or refurbished. As we are now talking about alternatives, there is also the MNT Reform Laptop which might be especially interesting for people who are into libre hard- and software: https://mntre.com/reform/ Thanks! cheers, josch signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Lenovo and forced labor [was: Re: Lenovo discount portal update (and a few other things)]
On 03/09/2020 03:47, Tomas Pospisek wrote: > On 02.09.20 15:08, Mark Pearson wrote: >> Hi Debian developers, >> >> Following on from DebConf 2020 (which I thoroughly enjoyed - thank you!) >> the Lenovo portal that was announced is now available: >> >> US: http://www.lenovo.com/us/en/Linux >> Canada: http://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/linuxca > > I think before jumping on this offer, one should consider this: > https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale > > Lenovo is by far not the only company producing laptops with forced > labor involved, however they have not - as of today - as far as I can > see - cared to comment on those report at all: > > * they have neither denied nor ack'ed it > * and they haven't said either that they'd no longer use forced labor to > produce their wares > > I'd conclude from that, that Lenovo still is, will be, and is not > planing to stop using forced labor to produce those laptops. > > I'm not sure there are alternatives: I have not researched them > intensively yet - I am currently in need of a new laptop too, so I'll > have to look around whether there are other brands that do not rely on > companies that employ forced labor. Pointers welcome. > *t > Hi Tomas, If you need a laptop and do not want to buy a new one from Lenovo, I suggest to you to buy a Librem 14 or 15 of Purism: https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ And as another option you could buy a used Lenovo ThinkPad laptop in good conditions from someone in Internet, Best regards Jathan -- Por favor evita enviarme adjuntos en formato de word o powerpoint, si quieres saber porque lee esto: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.es.html ¡Cámbiate a GNU/Linux! http://getgnulinux.org/es signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Lenovo and forced labor [was: Re: Lenovo discount portal update (and a few other things)]
Quoting Domenico Andreoli (2020-09-03 15:31:32) > On Thu, Sep 03, 2020 at 10:47:06AM +0200, Tomas Pospisek wrote: > > On 02.09.20 15:08, Mark Pearson wrote: > > > Hi Debian developers, > > > > > > Following on from DebConf 2020 (which I thoroughly enjoyed - thank you!) > > > the Lenovo portal that was announced is now available: > > > > > > US: http://www.lenovo.com/us/en/Linux > > > Canada: http://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/linuxca > > > > I think before jumping on this offer, one should consider this: > > https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale > > > > Lenovo is by far not the only company producing laptops with forced > > labor involved, however they have not - as of today - as far as I can > > see - cared to comment on those report at all: > > > > * they have neither denied nor ack'ed it > > * and they haven't said either that they'd no longer use forced labor to > > produce their wares > > > > I'd conclude from that, that Lenovo still is, will be, and is not > > planing to stop using forced labor to produce those laptops. > > > > I'm not sure there are alternatives: I have not researched them > > intensively yet - I am currently in need of a new laptop too, so I'll > > have to look around whether there are other brands that do not rely on > > companies that employ forced labor. Pointers welcome. > > You may want to consider System76 [0] and Purism [1]. > > They are not in the force labor lists pointed in this thread, maybe > they are ethically better than the others. > > Dom > > [0] https://system76.com > [1] https://puri.sm I agree¹ that those are great options to consider, but beware that companies *not* appearing in such lists might simply be too small for investigative journalists to scrutinize their full supply chain. - Jonas ¹ full disclosure: I am paid by Purism for some of my Debian work -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Lenovo and forced labor [was: Re: Lenovo discount portal update (and a few other things)]
On Thu, Sep 03, 2020 at 10:47:06AM +0200, Tomas Pospisek wrote: > On 02.09.20 15:08, Mark Pearson wrote: > > Hi Debian developers, > > > > Following on from DebConf 2020 (which I thoroughly enjoyed - thank you!) > > the Lenovo portal that was announced is now available: > > > > US: http://www.lenovo.com/us/en/Linux > > Canada: http://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/linuxca > > I think before jumping on this offer, one should consider this: > https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale > > Lenovo is by far not the only company producing laptops with forced > labor involved, however they have not - as of today - as far as I can > see - cared to comment on those report at all: > > * they have neither denied nor ack'ed it > * and they haven't said either that they'd no longer use forced labor to > produce their wares > > I'd conclude from that, that Lenovo still is, will be, and is not > planing to stop using forced labor to produce those laptops. > > I'm not sure there are alternatives: I have not researched them > intensively yet - I am currently in need of a new laptop too, so I'll > have to look around whether there are other brands that do not rely on > companies that employ forced labor. Pointers welcome. You may want to consider System76 [0] and Purism [1]. They are not in the force labor lists pointed in this thread, maybe they are ethically better than the others. Dom [0] https://system76.com [1] https://puri.sm -- rsa4096: 3B10 0CA1 8674 ACBA B4FE FCD2 CE5B CF17 9960 DE13 ed25519: FFB4 0CC3 7F2E 091D F7DA 356E CC79 2832 ED38 CB05 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Lenovo and forced labor [was: Re: Lenovo discount portal update (and a few other things)]
On 03.09.20 11:05, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote: > On Thu, Sep 03, 2020 at 10:47:06AM +0200, Tomas Pospisek wrote: >> I think before jumping on this offer, one should consider this: >> https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale > The list of brands from the article: Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, > Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, BMW, Bombardier, Bosch, BYD, > Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, > CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, > Geely Auto, General Motors, Google, Goertek, H, Haier, Hart Schaffner > Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, > Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, > Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microsoft, Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, > Nintendo, Nokia, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Roewe, > SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy > Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, > Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE. > > So it looks like this is not specific to Lenovo or laptops (just like the > "I'm not sure there are alternatives" part). A bit more (although not a lot more) info specific to Lenovo: https://theintercept.com/2020/08/21/school-laptops-lenovo-chromebooks-china-uyghur/
Re: Lenovo and forced labor [was: Re: Lenovo discount portal update (and a few other things)]
On Thu, Sep 03, 2020 at 10:47:06AM +0200, Tomas Pospisek wrote: > I think before jumping on this offer, one should consider this: > https://www.aspi.org.au/report/uyghurs-sale The list of brands from the article: Abercrombie & Fitch, Acer, Adidas, Alstom, Amazon, Apple, ASUS, BAIC Motor, BMW, Bombardier, Bosch, BYD, Calvin Klein, Candy, Carter’s, Cerruti 1881, Changan Automobile, Cisco, CRRC, Dell, Electrolux, Fila, Founder Group, GAC Group (automobiles), Gap, Geely Auto, General Motors, Google, Goertek, H, Haier, Hart Schaffner Marx, Hisense, Hitachi, HP, HTC, Huawei, iFlyTek, Jack & Jones, Jaguar, Japan Display Inc., L.L.Bean, Lacoste, Land Rover, Lenovo, LG, Li-Ning, Mayor, Meizu, Mercedes-Benz, MG, Microsoft, Mitsubishi, Mitsumi, Nike, Nintendo, Nokia, Oculus, Oppo, Panasonic, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Roewe, SAIC Motor, Samsung, SGMW, Sharp, Siemens, Skechers, Sony, TDK, Tommy Hilfiger, Toshiba, Tsinghua Tongfang, Uniqlo, Victoria’s Secret, Vivo, Volkswagen, Xiaomi, Zara, Zegna, ZTE. So it looks like this is not specific to Lenovo or laptops (just like the "I'm not sure there are alternatives" part). -- WBR, wRAR signature.asc Description: PGP signature
