Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
On Tue, Sep 21, 1999 at 12:53:40PM -0700, Joey Hess wrote: Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote: I also find apt 0.3.11's apt-cache search to be quite useful (and fast). I use: perl -n00e '/xml/i print;' /var/state/apt/lists/*Packages | less (to search for XML related packaged e.g.) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~apt-cache search xml libroxen-swarm - Swarning stars module for the Roxen Challenger web server cdindex-client - cdindex is intended to be the opensource replacement of When apt came I drop my super-clever perl scripts to report what were new to download... It's happening again... =)
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
Nicolás Lichtmaier wrote: I also find apt 0.3.11's apt-cache search to be quite useful (and fast). I use: perl -n00e '/xml/i print;' /var/state/apt/lists/*Packages | less (to search for XML related packaged e.g.) [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~apt-cache search xml libroxen-swarm - Swarning stars module for the Roxen Challenger web server cdindex-client - cdindex is intended to be the opensource replacement of cddb(tm) libroxen-mailit - Mail sening module for the Roxen Challenger web server libroxen-floatingcode - FLOAT tag module for the Roxen Challenger web server pythondoc - Generate reference manuals and indices from Python objects. libxml-perl - Collection of Perl modules for working with XML lib-xt-java - An implementation in Java of XSL Transformations libxmltok1 - XML Parser Toolkit, runtime libraries lib-xp-java - An XML Parser in Java docbook-xml - XML DTD for DocBook xbel-utils - XML Bookmark Exchange Language Utilities sp - James Clark's SGML parsing tools libxml-parser-perl - A Perl extension interface to expat. librxp1 - Shared library for XML parsing and validating xpuzzles - Collection of puzzles for X gnome-think - Hierarchical organizer and outliner xmpuzzles - Collection of puzzles for X w/ lesstif tdtd - Emacs major mode for editing SGML and XML DTDs lib-sax-java - A Java API for SAX XML parsing libxml-dom-perl - Extension to XML::Parser to add DOM v1 interface docbk-xml2x - Perl scripts to convert DocBk XML documents into troff and Texinfo libsp1-dev - James Clark's SP suite, developer support doc-html-w3 - Recommendations of the W3 php3-xml - XML module for PHP3 (apache) php3-cgi-xml - XML module for PHP3 (cgi) python-xml - XML tools for Python libxml-cgi-perl - Perl module to convert CGI.pm variables from/to XML. etc -- see shy jo
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
I also find apt 0.3.11's apt-cache search to be quite useful (and fast). I use: perl -n00e '/xml/i print;' /var/state/apt/lists/*Packages | less (to search for XML related packaged e.g.)
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
Germano Leichsenring [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By the way, am I the only one grepping the available file?? No, and (for those of you who don't already know), there are two nice packages that make doing so even easier and more useful: *grep-dctrl* allows you to extract entire package chunks with a grep-like syntax. *sgrep* allows you to do arbitrarily complicated extracts (also from other structured text files). HTH
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 10:52:31PM +, David Coe wrote: Germano Leichsenring [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By the way, am I the only one grepping the available file?? No, and (for those of you who don't already know), there are two nice packages that make doing so even easier and more useful: *grep-dctrl* allows you to extract entire package chunks with a grep-like syntax. *sgrep* allows you to do arbitrarily complicated extracts (also from other structured text files). I also find apt 0.3.11's apt-cache search to be quite useful (and fast). Adam -- a jolly daemon kin
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 12:51:16PM +0200, Laurent Martelli wrote: SB == Stephane Bortzmeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SB On Thursday 16 September 1999, at 2 h 3, the keyboard of Laurent SB Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: very nice, but how will uninstallation be handled ? Will you be able to uninstall all the packages of a metapackage in one step ? SB Certainly not: SB - a package can be a member of several meta-packages, We could state that the default is not to remove a package as long as it belongs to a metapackage. SB - a package could have been installed before (and independently SB of) a metapackage which includes it). That could be tracked during the installation of the metapackage. It would know what packages were already installed before. Then when you want to remove the metapackage, you could say only remove packages that were installed by the metapackage or remove all packages, regardless of when they were installed. -- Laurent Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] What should be good is a new state saying that a package has been install by the dependencies check rather than by user direct selection. So, the package will stay as long as it resolved a dependency, but be remove when no more package who depends on it is install, on a dpkg --remove --pending. How sould we implement it? That's the big discussion: IMHO, this should be add to dpkg along with hold, installed, upgrade, purge, etc. Other think that dpkg is not the right tool for such a feature and this should be handle by apt. Just my 2 pennies. -- Fabien NinolesChevalier servant de la Dame Catherine des Rosiers aka Corbeau aka le Veneur Gris Debian GNU/Linux maintainer E-mail:[EMAIL PROTECTED] WebPage:http://www.tzone.org/~fabien RSA PGP KEY [E3723845]: 1C C1 4F A6 EE E5 4D 99 4F 80 2D 2D 1F 85 C1 70
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
On Fri, 17 Sep 1999, Fabien Ninoles wrote: What should be good is a new state saying that a package has been install by the dependencies check rather than by user direct selection. So, the package will stay as long as it resolved a dependency, but be remove when no more package who depends on it is install, on a dpkg --remove --pending. How sould we implement it? That's the big discussion: IMHO, this should be add to dpkg along with hold, installed, upgrade, purge, etc. Other think that dpkg is not the right tool for such a feature and this should be handle by apt. I havn't the faintest idea how to implement this but this would be a feature which I would really like and which I missed several times. It would be great if this could be implemented in any case. Kind regards Andreas.
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
Actually about these metapackages, what about having a new field in the /var/lib/dpkg/info/available file, the Keywords: field? The keywords would be predefined, and it would be _much_ easier to find a package... now, if I don't know the name of a package, I have to grep through the available file for the keyword. Example of keywords: gtop - gnome pcmcia-cs - laptop ppp, xisp, fetchmail - dialup So, if I have a laptop, dselect looks for the laptop keyword and shows me what I could/should install. What do you think? JH == Joey Hess [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JH * The long awaited redesign of the installation profiles has JH begun. Now there are metapackages; packages that depend on a JH group of packages that relate to a common activity, like playing JH games or developing C programs. Martin Bialasinski posted a JH [14]request for help coming up with lists of packages for each JH metapackage. -- Germano Leichsenring Kobe University
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 09:27:25AM +0900, Germano Leichsenring wrote: Actually about these metapackages, what about having a new field in the /var/lib/dpkg/info/available file, the Keywords: field? The keywords would be predefined, and it would be _much_ easier to find a package... now, if I don't know the name of a package, I have to grep through the available file for the keyword. Example of keywords: gtop - gnome pcmcia-cs - laptop ppp, xisp, fetchmail - dialup So, if I have a laptop, dselect looks for the laptop keyword and shows me what I could/should install. What do you think? How is this different from metapackages? After all, all you have to do is look at the metapackage's dependencies itself to see what it gives you. I just don't see why there should be another keyword when it's already working perfectly well.
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
On Thursday 16 September 1999, at 2 h 3, the keyboard of Laurent Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: very nice, but how will uninstallation be handled ? Will you be able to uninstall all the packages of a metapackage in one step ? Certainly not: - a package can be a member of several meta-packages, - a package could have been installed before (and independently of) a metapackage which includes it).
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
Joe Drew [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Joe How is this different from metapackages? After all, all you have Joe to do is look at the metapackage's dependencies itself to see Joe what it gives you. At the beginning they're not much different; if you consider the metapackages implementation is already done, the keywords one is much harder to do; but IMHO it looks simple to code, just some filters on the available file. What happens is that with the keywords you can join keywords, like (network !admin !docs). I would say that, from a user's point of view, the keywords one looks more useful for a middle level user, and better for fine-tuning the packages when you don't know the name and can't realize in which group the package you want is (and that happens a _lot_ with me). Joe I just don't see why there should be another keyword when it's Joe already working perfectly well. I had the idea because I'm always grepping the available file, and thought some keywords on it would be helpful and dpkg could even have a search for keywords key. The list of packages is huge, you know that. I'm not sure this problem will be solved with the metapackages; will it? By the way, am I the only one grepping the available file?? -- Germano Leichsenring Kobe University
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
* Laurent == Laurent Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Laurent Being able to select several packages by selecting a Laurent metapackage is very nice, but how will uninstallation be Laurent handled ? Will you be able to uninstall all the packages of a Laurent metapackage in one step ? * Stephane == Stephane Bortzmeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Stephane Certainly not: Stephane - a package can be a member of several meta-packages, Stephane - a package could have been installed before (and Stephane independently of) a metapackage which includes it). If I understand Wichert correctly, apt will get a flag indicating if a package was installed on its onw merrits or as a dependancy sometime. Laurent It would also be nice to be able to select the packages one Laurent by one, thus providing a new way to hierarchise packages Laurent without messing with the old directory structure of the Laurent distributions. Is this planned ? This is not subject to the task packages. For better organisation, there were several proposals, but they were not persueded further although there wasn't much resistance - there wasn't simply anyone who wanted to push it through the decision layers). a) New field which has additional hierarchie information like in Package: xserver-i128 Purpose: x11/hardware, x11/server Package: cthugha Purpose: sound/display, graphic/demo There is a example usage of this available. I also played with it http://www.internet-treff.uni-koeln.de/~martin/debcat/index.html?fl=3flc29=2#fl_29 The only thing that prevents implementation (IIRC) is that a hierarchie has to be negotiated, and noone stepped forward to lead this efford. b) New field with keywords. Basically the same thing as a), but the disadvantage in my eyes is that you have to see the available keywords to effectivly search on them. Take a DN Server. A user could search on DNS, DNS server, DNS-Server, bind, name server etc. This is the same effect as with search engines, where you never get the hit you really searched for. Ciao, Martin
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
SB == Stephane Bortzmeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SB On Thursday 16 September 1999, at 2 h 3, the keyboard of Laurent SB Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: very nice, but how will uninstallation be handled ? Will you be able to uninstall all the packages of a metapackage in one step ? SB Certainly not: SB - a package can be a member of several meta-packages, We could state that the default is not to remove a package as long as it belongs to a metapackage. SB - a package could have been installed before (and independently SB of) a metapackage which includes it). That could be tracked during the installation of the metapackage. It would know what packages were already installed before. Then when you want to remove the metapackage, you could say only remove packages that were installed by the metapackage or remove all packages, regardless of when they were installed. -- Laurent Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
Martin == Martin Bialasinski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Martin * Laurent == Laurent Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Martin wrote: Martin * Stephane == Stephane Bortzmeyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Martin wrote: Laurent It would also be nice to be able to select the packages one Laurent by one, thus providing a new way to hierarchise packages Laurent without messing with the old directory structure of the Laurent distributions. Is this planned ? Martin This is not subject to the task packages. I fully agree. I think that classification should be kept out of packages, so that it can be changed without changing all the packages. Martin For better organisation, there were several proposals, but Martin they were not persueded further although there wasn't much Martin resistance - there wasn't simply anyone who wanted to push Martin it through the decision layers). See above. Martin Take a DN Server. A user could search on DNS, DNS Martin server, DNS-Server, bind, name server etc. This is Martin the same effect as with search engines, where you never get Martin the hit you really searched for. I introduced some kind of personnal indexing engine for w3-emacs which allows you to associate keywords to bookmarked pages. When you want to search for a keyword, there's completion on it so that you can quickly find the right one. The same goes when you want to associate a new keyword to a page, so your likely to choose an already existant keyword if you can find one that satisfies your need. Having synonims could also be a solution. -- Laurent Martelli [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Metapackages (was Re: Debian Weekly News - September 14th, 1999)
On Thu, Sep 16, 1999 at 05:11:10PM +0900, Germano Leichsenring wrote: By the way, am I the only one grepping the available file?? Nope. I too find it necessary when I don't want to connect to the debian website. =)
