Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
On 29.09.2013 07:34, Bob Tracy wrote: On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 04:32:05AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Sat, 2013-09-28 at 10:16 -0500, Bob Tracy wrote: On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 02:29:05PM +0100, Jurij Smakov wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.orgwrote: (...) xserver-xorg-video-sis (...) The SiS chipset was, unfortunately, really popular with manufacturers of relatively expensive micro PeeCees (EzGo, Jadetec, etc.), which were essentially notebook hardware crammed into a small desktop case. Here's a link with good pics: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/smallest,530-2.html and see also http://www.snotmonkey.com/work/ezgo/ for detailed specs. It's based on the P4, and I've got one of them. Case has the footprint of a shuttle, but is about half the height. If I *could* switch video cards, I'd do it in a heartbeat because SiS video cards have given me nothing but grief through the years. In the unsolved wontfix ubuntu bug list for the driver, mention is made of the fact XAA support went bye-bye, and the attempted use of EXA causes looping segfaults on X server startup. Only current workaround is to disable acceleration. Truly a case of bad breath is better than no breath. This sounds like a good reason to remove it, unless both vesa and fbdev also fail on this hardware. (k)ubuntu's plymouth can't figure out a supported mode for a graphical boot, so I'm guessing vesa and fbdev fail worse than sis. Only way to see anything besides a blank screen during boot is to tell grub not to do the whole splash screen thing. Installs from scratch on this machine are interesting. plymouth has no use for the X driver, so issues with plymouth should be shared by all use cases. -- t -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/524ae0bf.3040...@ubuntu.com
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.orgwrote: Hi, we (the debian X Strike Force) are thinking of removing the following packages from the archive, unless somebody steps up (soon) to take care of them. The reason is they see 0 testing, nobody maintains them upstream, if you're lucky people keep some of them building when APIs change, if you're very lucky they get a release with all the build fixes once in a while, and it's likely most of them don't have any users anymore. While it would probably be easy to get them to stop FTBFS right now, it doesn't seem worth it to keep all of those drivers around with the maintenance overhead that comes with that if nobody's going to notice anyway. So please speak up if you want to see one of these in jessie. xserver-xorg-video-apm xserver-xorg-video-ark xserver-xorg-video-chips xserver-xorg-video-glint xserver-xorg-video-i128 xserver-xorg-video-i740 xserver-xorg-video-newport xserver-xorg-video-rendition xserver-xorg-video-s3 xserver-xorg-video-s3virge xserver-xorg-video-sis xserver-xorg-video-suncg14 xserver-xorg-video-suncg3 xserver-xorg-video-suncg6 xserver-xorg-video-sunleo xserver-xorg-video-suntcx Adding debian-sparc to discuss these 5. I think all of them are only available in sparc32 machines, but I might be wrong. -- Jurij Smakov | ju...@wooyd.org | Key IDs: 43C30A7D/C99E03CC
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 02:29:05PM +0100, Jurij Smakov wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.orgwrote: (...) xserver-xorg-video-sis (...) The SiS chipset was, unfortunately, really popular with manufacturers of relatively expensive micro PeeCees (EzGo, Jadetec, etc.), which were essentially notebook hardware crammed into a small desktop case. Here's a link with good pics: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/smallest,530-2.html and see also http://www.snotmonkey.com/work/ezgo/ for detailed specs. It's based on the P4, and I've got one of them. Case has the footprint of a shuttle, but is about half the height. If I *could* switch video cards, I'd do it in a heartbeat because SiS video cards have given me nothing but grief through the years. In the unsolved wontfix ubuntu bug list for the driver, mention is made of the fact XAA support went bye-bye, and the attempted use of EXA causes looping segfaults on X server startup. Only current workaround is to disable acceleration. Truly a case of bad breath is better than no breath. --Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130928151657.ga17...@gherkin.frus.com
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
Off the top of my head, my Sun E3500 (8x 64-bit SPARC CPUs) has an SBUS
graphics adapter that is one of those cg{N} adapters, but honestly, Linux
support for E3500 is shoddy at best, so it's fine by me.
Patrick
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 8:29 AM, Jurij Smakov ju...@wooyd.org wrote:
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.orgwrote:
Hi,
we (the debian X Strike Force) are thinking of removing the following
packages from the archive, unless somebody steps up (soon) to take care
of them. The reason is they see 0 testing, nobody maintains them
upstream, if you're lucky people keep some of them building when APIs
change, if you're very lucky they get a release with all the build fixes
once in a while, and it's likely most of them don't have any users
anymore. While it would probably be easy to get them to stop FTBFS
right now, it doesn't seem worth it to keep all of those drivers around
with the maintenance overhead that comes with that if nobody's going to
notice anyway. So please speak up if you want to see one of these in
jessie.
xserver-xorg-video-apm
xserver-xorg-video-ark
xserver-xorg-video-chips
xserver-xorg-video-glint
xserver-xorg-video-i128
xserver-xorg-video-i740
xserver-xorg-video-newport
xserver-xorg-video-rendition
xserver-xorg-video-s3
xserver-xorg-video-s3virge
xserver-xorg-video-sis
xserver-xorg-video-suncg14
xserver-xorg-video-suncg3
xserver-xorg-video-suncg6
xserver-xorg-video-sunleo
xserver-xorg-video-suntcx
Adding debian-sparc to discuss these 5. I think all of them are only
available in sparc32 machines, but I might be wrong.
--
Jurij Smakov | ju...@wooyd.org | Key IDs: 43C30A7D/C99E03CC
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
Hey, Op 28-09-13 17:16, Bob Tracy schreef: On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 02:29:05PM +0100, Jurij Smakov wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.orgwrote: (...) xserver-xorg-video-sis (...) The SiS chipset was, unfortunately, really popular with manufacturers of relatively expensive micro PeeCees (EzGo, Jadetec, etc.), which were essentially notebook hardware crammed into a small desktop case. Here's a link with good pics: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/smallest,530-2.html and see also http://www.snotmonkey.com/work/ezgo/ for detailed specs. It's based on the P4, and I've got one of them. Case has the footprint of a shuttle, but is about half the height. If I *could* switch video cards, I'd do it in a heartbeat because SiS video cards have given me nothing but grief through the years. In the unsolved wontfix ubuntu bug list for the driver, mention is made of the fact XAA support went bye-bye, and the attempted use of EXA causes looping segfaults on X server startup. Only current workaround is to disable acceleration. Truly a case of bad breath is better than no breath. So the default configuration is broken and the xorg team no longer wants to maintain it. If you're willing to fix this bug and maintain xxv-sis with uploads go right ahead, if not it just means that dropping is the right thing to do. ~Maarten -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/52470641.8040...@canonical.com
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
On Sat, 2013-09-28 at 10:16 -0500, Bob Tracy wrote: On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 02:29:05PM +0100, Jurij Smakov wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.orgwrote: (...) xserver-xorg-video-sis (...) The SiS chipset was, unfortunately, really popular with manufacturers of relatively expensive micro PeeCees (EzGo, Jadetec, etc.), which were essentially notebook hardware crammed into a small desktop case. Here's a link with good pics: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/smallest,530-2.html and see also http://www.snotmonkey.com/work/ezgo/ for detailed specs. It's based on the P4, and I've got one of them. Case has the footprint of a shuttle, but is about half the height. If I *could* switch video cards, I'd do it in a heartbeat because SiS video cards have given me nothing but grief through the years. In the unsolved wontfix ubuntu bug list for the driver, mention is made of the fact XAA support went bye-bye, and the attempted use of EXA causes looping segfaults on X server startup. Only current workaround is to disable acceleration. Truly a case of bad breath is better than no breath. This sounds like a good reason to remove it, unless both vesa and fbdev also fail on this hardware. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings The world is coming to an end. Please log off. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 04:32:05AM +0100, Ben Hutchings wrote: On Sat, 2013-09-28 at 10:16 -0500, Bob Tracy wrote: On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 02:29:05PM +0100, Jurij Smakov wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:26 PM, Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.orgwrote: (...) xserver-xorg-video-sis (...) The SiS chipset was, unfortunately, really popular with manufacturers of relatively expensive micro PeeCees (EzGo, Jadetec, etc.), which were essentially notebook hardware crammed into a small desktop case. Here's a link with good pics: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/smallest,530-2.html and see also http://www.snotmonkey.com/work/ezgo/ for detailed specs. It's based on the P4, and I've got one of them. Case has the footprint of a shuttle, but is about half the height. If I *could* switch video cards, I'd do it in a heartbeat because SiS video cards have given me nothing but grief through the years. In the unsolved wontfix ubuntu bug list for the driver, mention is made of the fact XAA support went bye-bye, and the attempted use of EXA causes looping segfaults on X server startup. Only current workaround is to disable acceleration. Truly a case of bad breath is better than no breath. This sounds like a good reason to remove it, unless both vesa and fbdev also fail on this hardware. (k)ubuntu's plymouth can't figure out a supported mode for a graphical boot, so I'm guessing vesa and fbdev fail worse than sis. Only way to see anything besides a blank screen during boot is to tell grub not to do the whole splash screen thing. Installs from scratch on this machine are interesting. Don't save the SiS driver for one person, but know that I will miss it for a select few machines, warts and all. --Bob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130929043420.ga19...@gherkin.frus.com
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
Hi! On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 23:26:22 +0200, Julien Cristau wrote: we (the debian X Strike Force) are thinking of removing the following packages from the archive, unless somebody steps up (soon) to take care of them. I assume here you mean maintaining them in Debian (or perhaps upstream too?). The reason is they see 0 testing, nobody maintains them upstream, if you're lucky people keep some of them building when APIs change, if you're very lucky they get a release with all the build fixes once in a while, and it's likely most of them don't have any users anymore. Several of the below modules are claimed as maintained in upstream's MAINTAINERS file. If that's not the case I guess it would be nice to get that updated so that it's clear what's the status on them and so other people can step up there if they feel like it. While it would probably be easy to get them to stop FTBFS right now, it doesn't seem worth it to keep all of those drivers around with the maintenance overhead that comes with that if nobody's going to notice anyway. Sure, although several of them have newer releases upstream or fixes in master that make them build from source. So please speak up if you want to see one of these in jessie. I'll keep an eye on the tdfx one upstream. If it got to be removed from Debian, I might consider taking over maintainership here. xserver-xorg-video-voodoo Maintained upstream. New release builds. xserver-xorg-video-chips xserver-xorg-video-glint xserver-xorg-video-i128 xserver-xorg-video-i740 xserver-xorg-video-rendition xserver-xorg-video-tdfx xserver-xorg-video-tga xserver-xorg-video-tseng Maintained upstream. Master builds. xserver-xorg-video-s3virge xserver-xorg-video-suncg14 xserver-xorg-video-suncg3 xserver-xorg-video-suncg6 xserver-xorg-video-sunleo xserver-xorg-video-suntcx Unmaintained upstream. New release builds. xserver-xorg-video-apm xserver-xorg-video-ark Unmaintained upstream. Master builds. xserver-xorg-video-newport xserver-xorg-video-s3 xserver-xorg-video-sis Unmaintained upstream. Thanks, Guillem -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130927172737.ga25...@gaara.hadrons.org
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 19:27:37 +0200, Guillem Jover wrote: Hi! On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 23:26:22 +0200, Julien Cristau wrote: we (the debian X Strike Force) are thinking of removing the following packages from the archive, unless somebody steps up (soon) to take care of them. I assume here you mean maintaining them in Debian (or perhaps upstream too?). If they're maintained upstream the XSF can probably keep maintaining the packages. The reason is they see 0 testing, nobody maintains them upstream, if you're lucky people keep some of them building when APIs change, if you're very lucky they get a release with all the build fixes once in a while, and it's likely most of them don't have any users anymore. Several of the below modules are claimed as maintained in upstream's MAINTAINERS file. If that's not the case I guess it would be nice to get that updated so that it's clear what's the status on them and so other people can step up there if they feel like it. I admit I didn't cross-check against the MAINTAINERS file. But at least some that are listed as maintained there were removed in X11R7.7: http://www.x.org/releases/X11R7.7/doc/xorg-docs/ReleaseNotes.html#Removed_in_this_Release While it would probably be easy to get them to stop FTBFS right now, it doesn't seem worth it to keep all of those drivers around with the maintenance overhead that comes with that if nobody's going to notice anyway. Sure, although several of them have newer releases upstream or fixes in master that make them build from source. Getting the packages to build this time isn't a big issue. But if these drivers get no testing I think it's better to not ship them than to ship them broken. And if they have no users then time spent maintaining/fixing them could be better spent elsewhere. So please speak up if you want to see one of these in jessie. I'll keep an eye on the tdfx one upstream. If it got to be removed from Debian, I might consider taking over maintainership here. Thanks. xserver-xorg-video-voodoo Maintained upstream. New release builds. The last change from Alan (who's listed as maintainer) was 5 years ago... xserver-xorg-video-chips xserver-xorg-video-glint xserver-xorg-video-i128 xserver-xorg-video-i740 xserver-xorg-video-rendition xserver-xorg-video-tdfx xserver-xorg-video-tga xserver-xorg-video-tseng Maintained upstream. Master builds. I think that's yet another case of MAINTAINERS being outdated. Cheers, Julien signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Removing old unmaintained X drivers
Hello, On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 23:26:22 +0200 Julien Cristau jcris...@debian.org wrote: xserver-xorg-video-s3 I'd vote for this one, but I can't maintain it, unfortunately. -- WBR, Andrew signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Removing old unmaintained X drivers
Hi, we (the debian X Strike Force) are thinking of removing the following packages from the archive, unless somebody steps up (soon) to take care of them. The reason is they see 0 testing, nobody maintains them upstream, if you're lucky people keep some of them building when APIs change, if you're very lucky they get a release with all the build fixes once in a while, and it's likely most of them don't have any users anymore. While it would probably be easy to get them to stop FTBFS right now, it doesn't seem worth it to keep all of those drivers around with the maintenance overhead that comes with that if nobody's going to notice anyway. So please speak up if you want to see one of these in jessie. xserver-xorg-video-apm xserver-xorg-video-ark xserver-xorg-video-chips xserver-xorg-video-glint xserver-xorg-video-i128 xserver-xorg-video-i740 xserver-xorg-video-newport xserver-xorg-video-rendition xserver-xorg-video-s3 xserver-xorg-video-s3virge xserver-xorg-video-sis xserver-xorg-video-suncg14 xserver-xorg-video-suncg3 xserver-xorg-video-suncg6 xserver-xorg-video-sunleo xserver-xorg-video-suntcx xserver-xorg-video-tdfx xserver-xorg-video-tga xserver-xorg-video-tseng xserver-xorg-video-voodoo Cheers, Julien signature.asc Description: Digital signature
