Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Christian Perrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd be glad if you'd keep the Debian TeX Task Force (currently at [EMAIL PROTECTED], soon at [EMAIL PROTECTED]) informed about drafts of this policy. Although we don't currently package any TTF Of courseActually, I see some difference between TTF fonts which most common use are desktop environments and Type1 fonts, which use is more specialized (correct me if I say stupid things, I'm far from having good knowledge of all this...which is actually one of the motivations for a team...:-)) I guess the difference is more in the historic development than in actual technical differences. You can easily use Type1 fonts under X11 if they are registered to defoma; I don't know about Openoffice and friends. On the other hand, as I said, pdftex can use TTF fonts, too. That's why I think we should coordinate a bit. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Frank Küster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess the difference is more in the historic development than in actual technical differences. You can easily use Type1 fonts under X11 if they are registered to defoma; I don't know about Openoffice and friends. OpenOffice.org can use Latin Modern (which is in Type 1 format in Debian). I'm pretty sure it is because it uses fontconfig (and because defoma makes fonts available to fontconfig). -- Florent -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006, Christian Perrier wrote: ttf-arabeyes - Arabeyes GPL TrueType Arabic fonts ttf-kacst - KACST free TrueType Arabic fonts ttf-paktype - PakType free OpenType Urdu fonts I am maintaining those three, and would really be happy to know what are the other maintainers best practices in maintaining fonts. As I am not a big font expert too, such a team will be a way to learn a lot. To sum up, count me in! -- adn Mohammed Adnène Trojette -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Christian Perrier wrote: List of current ttf-* packages -- (just looking at the packages descriptions give a good idea of the non-coordination of font packaging..:-))) [...] ttf-opensymbol - The OpenSymbol TrueType font built from OOo... Regards, Rene signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Christian Perrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first goal for this team would be setting up a font packaging policy. [...] I have voluntarily limited the scope of the project to TTF fonts, which become more an more popular. This is mostly by ignorance and because of my loose knowledge of other font systems. Feel free to propose a wider project (but not too much wide, also: having a first limited focus is probably more realistic). I'd be glad if you'd keep the Debian TeX Task Force (currently at [EMAIL PROTECTED], soon at [EMAIL PROTECTED]) informed about drafts of this policy. Although we don't currently package any TTF fonts, pdftex can in principle use them (as well as PostScript Type1 fonts and, to a still limited extend, OTF). Unfortunately, it has rather specific requirements with respect to file placement and even naming. It would be nice if we'd manage to keep the needed setup (symlink farms...) as simple as possible. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Beeing the new ttf-bitstream-vera maintainer, I have the same opinion as to other 'team-maintenance-proposals': As long as the package itself is not as complicated as I could not been handled well by one person, I don't like the 'team'-idea - it's unecessary overhead for me. Let's write a fontpackages sub-policy instead, and let it up to the people to decide how they want to maintain their packages. (Sorry, if this sounds a bit harsh, but it's not ment as an offence, and I appreciate your initiative). -- Address:Daniel Baumann, Burgunderstrasse 3, CH-4562 Biberist Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Internet: http://people.panthera-systems.net/~daniel-baumann/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Christian Perrier wrote: I have voluntarily limited the scope of the project to TTF fonts, which become more an more popular. Perhaps the PostScript fonts in Debian could use some attention as well. I've been trying to package a very simple PHP library which in the upstream version includes copies of the standard Adobe fonts (Courier, Times etc). It turns out that these fonts are included in various Debian packages, but unfortunately they don't make them available to other applications in a uniform manner (especially not if you want to preserve the association between .pfa and .afm files). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Type1 fonts in Debian (was: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal)
Marcus Better [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Perrier wrote: I have voluntarily limited the scope of the project to TTF fonts, which become more an more popular. Perhaps the PostScript fonts in Debian could use some attention as well. I've been trying to package a very simple PHP library which in the upstream version includes copies of the standard Adobe fonts (Courier, Times etc). It turns out that these fonts are included in various Debian packages, ... and sometimes in quite buggy versions. I don't recall the details (but could look them up), but AFAIR the gsfonts package contains a version of the URW fonts that has been labelled experimental and actually is; especially in the Courier font there were severe problems. Somewhere in the debian-tetex-maint list Ralf Stubner posted a description how to make gs use the variants included in tetex instead. Regards, Frank -- Frank Küster Single Molecule Spectroscopy, Protein Folding @ Inst. f. Biochemie, Univ. Zürich Debian Developer (teTeX)
Re: Type1 fonts in Debian (was: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal)
also sprach Frank Küster [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2006.02.20.1619 +0100]: ... and sometimes in quite buggy versions. I don't recall the details (but could look them up), but AFAIR the gsfonts package contains a version of the URW fonts that has been labelled experimental and actually is; especially in the Courier font there were severe problems. i recently purchased some non-free fonts and would like to make them into debian packages for internal use. Thus, I would be very interested in following such efforts to learn how to accomplish what i need. -- Please do not send copies of list mail to me; I read the list! .''`. martin f. krafft [EMAIL PROTECTED] : :' :proud Debian developer and author: http://debiansystem.info `. `'` `- Debian - when you have better things to do than fixing a system Invalid/expired PGP (sub)keys? Use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver! i started taking an online add test, linked from someone's blog. i never finished it; i got distracted, and clicked on random other shiny things -- andres salomon signature.asc Description: Digital signature (GPG/PGP)
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Daniel Baumann wrote: Let's write a fontpackages sub-policy instead, and let it up to the people to decide how they want to maintain their packages. Christian, I have to agree with Daniel here. We don't really need joint maintenance but coordination on font policy would be a good idea. (Also if someone could explain just how the heck defoma is supposed to work...) -- Jaldhar H. Vyas [EMAIL PROTECTED] La Salle Debain - http://www.braincells.com/debian/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
On Monday 20 February 2006 06:40, Christian Perrier wrote: The project could also include the maintenance of font-related tools, such as fontforge or defoma (which seems mostly abandoned, but probably requires solid knowledge or Perl and cryptic programming...:-)). As several people have noticed, the FreeType packages in Debian could do with some serious love that I do not have time to give. There are several issues in the BTS that are issues with either fonts or FreeType's rendering of a particular font, so it would be useful to get font maintainers actively involved with maintenance of this package. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
On Monday 20 February 2006 07:40, Christian Perrier wrote: So, I hereby propose to think about a possible TTF fonts packaging team. A comment as a pure user insofar as fonts are concerned: I don't care if what I see comes from a ttf, metafont, ps, bdf or PEX font. I just want the font to be available everywhere. So I'd suggest that at least ttf and ps fonts should be managed in some common way - so a font packaging (or policy?) team may want to look at more than just ttf fonts. cheers -- vbi (Yes, I realize that bdf and PEX are dying or dead, and that there probably is currently support for TeX/Metafont fonts in X/Pango/whatever KDE uses ;-) (Hmmm. I think I forgot Linux console bitmap fonts... Or are these bdf, too?) -- OpenPGP encrypted mail welcome - my key: http://fortytwo.ch/gpg/92082481 pgpIyzPA0AgbQ.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
I'd be glad if you'd keep the Debian TeX Task Force (currently at [EMAIL PROTECTED], soon at [EMAIL PROTECTED]) informed about drafts of this policy. Although we don't currently package any TTF Of courseActually, I see some difference between TTF fonts which most common use are desktop environments and Type1 fonts, which use is more specialized (correct me if I say stupid things, I'm far from having good knowledge of all this...which is actually one of the motivations for a team...:-)) So, unless some good arguments come up, this team and loose policy would then be limited to TTF fontsbut of course, the TSF will be kept posted (will try to remember crosspositing for a next announcement). -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Quoting Jaldhar H. Vyas ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): Let's write a fontpackages sub-policy instead, and let it up to the people to decide how they want to maintain their packages. Christian, I have to agree with Daniel here. We don't really need joint maintenance but coordination on font policy would be a good idea. (Also if someone could explain just how the heck defoma is supposed to work...) I actually have no intent to enforce this to people who prefer maintaining the package they maintain alone. My current view is more having a common place for package maintenance (for maintainers who want to join), possibly with sub-places for packages which have joined this loose team. There, each package maintainer would have to choice to either be the only responsible person for the package (aka be Maintainer and Uploader alone)or give precedence to the team...or whatever combination. Again, no enforcement for anyone to join the team and the packaging policy would then be more a set of guidelines rather than an enforced policy such as other packaging policies. As you mention, Jaldhar, there are a few things related to font packaging which are not obvious to people who package fonts. defoma is among theseand fontforge os probably another one. So the team could also be a good place for font maintainers to share their experience and maybe also benefit from a wider experience by epople who have a good knowledge of such deep technical stuff. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Christian Perrier [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Of courseActually, I see some difference between TTF fonts which most common use are desktop environments and Type1 fonts, which use is more specialized From a user point of view, TTF and Type1 fonts are essentially the same; they both work well for typical desktop use in debian. [Maybe in the past there were differences due to e.g. the different hinting strategies, but these days freetype seems to handle both equally well. I don't know whether windows/macos are similarly advanced.] -Miles -- .Numeric stability is probably not all that important when you're guessing. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
Preamble The maintenance of fonts, at least TTF fonts, is currently splitted out among many maintainers in the project, while the problems faced by TTF font package maintainers are nearly always the same. From my own recent experience of helping/sponsoring/taking over a few font packages, I have concluded that some coordination between font packages maintainers could be an interesting improvement for the project. So, I hereby propose to think about a possible TTF fonts packaging team. Project goals - The first goal for this team would be setting up a font packaging policy. Font packages are usually very simple packages, but having a common packaging style would greatly help incorporating new fonts in Debian. Usually, people who request the packaging of fonts are not often very experienced people and that would help smoothing this learning curve. Having a common maintenance team would also optimize the usage of resources, namely font experts, who are not that common. My personal vision of this is having the font maintenance team slowly becoming the maintainer of more and more ttf-* font packages, with the agreement of the original maintainers, of course. Those would then remain as main maintainer by being listed in the font Uploaders field. The team could also seek for more fonts to be included in Debian, possibly after setting up some prerequisites to avoid too crappy fonts. The project could also include the maintenance of font-related tools, such as fontforge or defoma (which seems mostly abandoned, but probably requires solid knowledge or Perl and cryptic programming...:-)). Project resources - For this, I imagine setting up a maintenance team, with common resources: - a dedicated project on Alioth, with a common SVN repository - a mailing list hosted on lists.debian.org Then, I propose contacting the ttf-* font packages maintainers and propose them to join the team, explaining that this is a volunteer action anyway and they will remain as the main maintainer of their packages. Next steps -- The first step is trying to see whether this proposal receives interest, by my fellow Debian developers, as well as font packages maintainers (several of them not being yet a DD). So, please follow up in -devel to show interest, criticism, laughs and the like. I do not intend to keep the lead of this very long, mostly because I'm not really a font expert. But, at least until a strong team emerges, I can give some time in coordinating the whole stuff and slowly gather the current font packages maintainers. I have voluntarily limited the scope of the project to TTF fonts, which become more an more popular. This is mostly by ignorance and because of my loose knowledge of other font systems. Feel free to propose a wider project (but not too much wide, also: having a first limited focus is probably more realistic). Please feel free to point me at existing projects I wouldn't be aware of (debian-desktop?) which cover similar goals... List of current ttf-* packages -- (just looking at the packages descriptions give a good idea of the non-coordination of font packaging..:-))) ttf-arhangai - A TrueType font with Mongolian Cyrillic letters ttf-arphic-bsmi00lp - AR PL Mingti2L Big5 Chinese TrueType font by Arphic Technology ttf-arphic-gbsn00lp - AR PL SungtiL GB Chinese TrueType font by Arphic Technology ttf-arphic-gkai00mp - AR PL KaitiM GB Chinese TrueType font by Arphic Technology ttf-baekmuk - Baekmuk series TrueType fonts ttf-dustin - Various TrueType fonts from dustismo.com ttf-f500 - Wipeout 3 Font ttf-isabella - The Isabella free TrueType font ttf-kochi-gothic - Kochi Subst Gothic Japanese TrueType font without naga10 ttf-kochi-mincho - Kochi Subst Mincho Japanese TrueType font without naga10 ttf-sazanami-gothic - Sazanami Gothic Japanese TrueType font ttf-sazanami-mincho - Sazanami Mincho Japanese TrueType font ttf-staypuft - The Stay-Puft free TrueType font ttf-summersby - Free TrueType typeface font ttf-thryomanes - A Unicode font covering Latin, Greek, Cyrillic and IPA ttf-tmuni - font for Tibetan, Dzongkha and Ladakhi (OpenType Unicode) ttf-uralic - Truetype fonts for Cyrillic-based Uralic languages ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10 - Kochi Subst Gothic Japanese TrueType font with naga10 (non-free) ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10 - Kochi Subst Mincho Japanese TrueType font with naga10 (non-free) ttf-mikachan - handwritten Japanese Truetype font libfont-ttf-perl - Perl module for TrueType font hacking libttf-dev - FreeType 1 development files (static library and headers) ttf-alee - A Lee's EunJin family Hangul truetype fonts ttf-arabeyes - Arabeyes GPL TrueType Arabic fonts ttf-arphic-bkai00mp - AR PL KaitiM Big5 Chinese TrueType font by Arphic Technology ttf-arphic-ukai - AR PL ZenKai Uni Chinese Unicode TrueType font Kaiti style ttf-arphic-uming - AR PL ShanHeiSun Uni Chinese Unicode TrueType font Mingti style ttf-bengali-fonts
Re: TrueType fonts packages maintenance team proposal
On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 07:40 +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: So, please follow up in -devel to show interest, criticism, laughs and the like. As maintainer (non-DD) of the following two fonts, I think this is a great idea. ttf-khmeros - KhmerOS Unicode fonts for the Khmer language of Cambodia ttf-mph-2b-damase - font with ranges from the latest version of unicode There are a few other fonts I'd like to see in Debian (another Khmer one, and a few Burmese Unicode ones). It might be good to write a font policy (if one does not exist), with suggested package names and standards for package descriptions, dependencies and the like. We should also ensure that all the fonts packages have correct debtags. We could also search for binary packages that duplicate font files instead of depending on them (even tho there are lintian warnings). Please feel free to point me at existing projects I wouldn't be aware of (debian-desktop?) which cover similar goals... I also think that this project has a bit in common with debian-i18n, perhaps they could be informed too? -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
