Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
Jon Dowland dixit: The stuff is things such as minified js. The wordpress source contains the minified copies, and you can get the originals in separate tarballs from the wordpress site. Eh, I’d call that RC. People have been told off for not including the corresponding source in the .orig.tar.gz for ages. (Same for a LICENCE file, which one is not allowed to add in the Debian patch, even if the licence terms come from upstream.) You’ll have to repack the orig.tar.xz(I guess) thus. It strikes me that this is *exactly* what the multiple-source-tarballs feature of 3.0. is for. Actually, I believe not, since they may belong into the _same_ tarball as their “binaries” (minified versions). Although, the fact these sources aren't used at all is troubling. Oh, definitely, that too. In fact, I’ve already filed such as RC bug against one of the ECMAscript packages where I noticed it, and I think this happens with many more. bye, //mirabilos -- I believe no one can invent an algorithm. One just happens to hit upon it when God enlightens him. Or only God invents algorithms, we merely copy them. If you don't believe in God, just consider God as Nature if you won't deny existence. -- Coywolf Qi Hunt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/pine.bsm.4.64l.1205221315280.23...@herc.mirbsd.org
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
Hi, (Corsac was right, you'd better CC the maintainers with whom you want to discuss...) On Wed, 16 May 2012, Russell Coker wrote: Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package won't use them. I don't see the point of it. This is the simplest way to ensure that anyone who distributes Debian complies with the GPL for what is shipped in the wordpress source package. Wordpress themselves are not doing it seriously enough. Their corresponding page is not up-to-date: http://wordpress.org/download/source/ Packaging wordpress is enough of a pain already, if you want to change something you should join us and help us. On Wed, 16 May 2012, Paul Wise wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Russell Coker wrote: I just downloaded the source to Wordpress from Squeeze, it's got a 14M .debian.tar.xz which is mostly sources for things that are included in the upstream tarball. The build process appears to only use the upstream tarball code so the 13MB of data in the debian/missing-sources directory isn't used for building. Seems like a bug, the best way to determine that sources are still buildable is to always build them. You're welcome to provide a patch. On Wed, 16 May 2012, Jon Dowland wrote: It strikes me that this is *exactly* what the multiple-source-tarballs feature of 3.0. is for. Although, the fact these sources aren't used at all is troubling. If Debian used them (implemented the minifying as part of the build process) we might catch a problem upstream miss (not necessarily a bad thing). Ditto. Of course, many of these could be separate source/binary packages in their own right[1], as they have value outside of wordpress, and be Build-Depends/Depends of wordpress. In fact a few already are: jquery (already packaged); swfupload (not yet); tinymce (already packaged)… Indeed, some of the sources provided are for minified files that we don't even install in the binary package. But things change quickly and depending on testing and bug reports, we switch between using the embedded copy and the Debian packaged copy. So I took the easy solution. Note that I use Wordpress so I (help) maintain the Wordpress package but I have better things to do than to invent a build system that upstream wouldn't use just for the sake of it. We definitely need more help to maintain wordpress and you're welcome to join if you feel like doing it. I have done my share of work to get upstream to comply: http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/19065 Cheers, -- Raphaël Hertzog ◈ Debian Developer Get the Debian Administrator's Handbook: → http://debian-handbook.info/get/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120519140202.ga...@rivendell.home.ouaza.com
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
* Jon Dowland: So if I understand the situation correctly; wordpress ships a pre-build binary which cannot be generated in Debian? Whether the source is in a separate package or not, this does not feel right. It's not without precedent. Ocaml bootstraps off a binary blob to avoid a cyclic build dependency, for instance. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/87zk93ev4p@mid.deneb.enyo.de
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On 05/16/2012 08:45 PM, Jon Dowland wrote: Of course, many of these could be separate source/binary packages in their own right[1], as they have value outside of wordpress, and be Build-Depends/Depends of wordpress. In fact a few already are: jquery (already packaged); swfupload (not yet); tinymce (already packaged) Unfortunately, swfupload *cannot* be packaged in Debian because we have no ways of building it (unless the situation changed with adobe tools... in which case, I would really like to hear about it!). The only thing you could package would be a very old version of it. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/4fb498c0.4020...@debian.org
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 2:20 PM, Thomas Goirand wrote: Unfortunately, swfupload *cannot* be packaged in Debian because we have no ways of building it (unless the situation changed with adobe tools... in which case, I would really like to hear about it!). The only thing you could package would be a very old version of it. Now that we have an AS3 compiler in Debian (as3compile in swftools) maybe that would work? -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6HMUX3RsB9kUXt5m2uC7qQU_+W-=f7r+mgyjupjxvk...@mail.gmail.com
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On mer., 2012-05-16 at 19:45 +1000, Russell Coker wrote: I just downloaded the source to Wordpress from Squeeze, it's got a 14M .debian.tar.xz which is mostly sources for things that are included in the upstream tarball. The build process appears to only use the upstream tarball code so the 13MB of data in the debian/missing-sources directory isn't used for building. It is a really good thing to have upstream sources available as dictated by the GPL (well done to whoever did that). But that availability doesn't require that they be in the source package. Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package won't use them. Any reason you didn't CC: wordpress maintainers? (I guess they are subscribed to -devel but considering the current mail rate, I'm unsure they'll read everything so it might make sense to CC: them at first…) Regards, -- Yves-Alexis signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 02:20:48PM +0800, Thomas Goirand wrote: Unfortunately, swfupload *cannot* be packaged in Debian because we have no ways of building it (unless the situation changed with adobe tools... in which case, I would really like to hear about it!). The only thing you could package would be a very old version of it. So if I understand the situation correctly; wordpress ships a pre-build binary which cannot be generated in Debian? Whether the source is in a separate package or not, this does not feel right. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120517083808.GA32082@debian
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 05:53:11PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Russell Coker wrote: Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package won't use them. If I downloaded a source package and didn't get source I would be most unimpressed. Seconded! If you say download some, and ignore the others in most cases, please consider that in the case you really find out that you need the source, you'll most likely be offline, and cannot do much about it (Murphy's laws apply generously). So I'd say, better get the whole chunk in one go to be safe. Imho, much of the value of being entitled to have source is in actually having it, instantanously, as opposed to merely having a legal option to get it somehow, sometime. Of course, YMMV. Kind regards, --Toni++ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120517101054.ga10...@spruce.wiehl.oeko.net
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 12:10:55PM +0200, Toni Mueller wrote: If you say download some, and ignore the others in most cases, please consider that in the case you really find out that you need the source, you'll most likely be offline, and cannot do much about it (Murphy's laws apply generously). Hopefully you've got the build-dependencies too. Which, if the source packages were split off into other packages, you'd then pull in. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120517145625.GC7703@debian
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 03:56:25PM +0100, Jon Dowland wrote: Hopefully you've got the build-dependencies too. Which, if the source packages were split off into other packages, you'd then pull in. Being able to read the source code can often get you quite far already, but yes, usually, I want all the build dependencies and a locally runnable copy, too. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120517161426.gb10...@spruce.wiehl.oeko.net
big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
I just downloaded the source to Wordpress from Squeeze, it's got a 14M .debian.tar.xz which is mostly sources for things that are included in the upstream tarball. The build process appears to only use the upstream tarball code so the 13MB of data in the debian/missing-sources directory isn't used for building. It is a really good thing to have upstream sources available as dictated by the GPL (well done to whoever did that). But that availability doesn't require that they be in the source package. Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package won't use them. -- My Main Blog http://etbe.coker.com.au/ My Documents Bloghttp://doc.coker.com.au/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/201205161945.56941.russ...@coker.com.au
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Russell Coker wrote: I just downloaded the source to Wordpress from Squeeze, it's got a 14M .debian.tar.xz which is mostly sources for things that are included in the upstream tarball. The build process appears to only use the upstream tarball code so the 13MB of data in the debian/missing-sources directory isn't used for building. Seems like a bug, the best way to determine that sources are still buildable is to always build them. It is a really good thing to have upstream sources available as dictated by the GPL (well done to whoever did that). But that availability doesn't require that they be in the source package. Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package won't use them. If I downloaded a source package and didn't get source I would be most unimpressed. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6EuzQTKMRM2GTwRp6kJRUebsD+B7ObE-aaOo8f_=tr...@mail.gmail.com
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
On Wed, May 16, 2012 at 05:53:11PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: Seems like a bug, the best way to determine that sources are still buildable is to always build them. The stuff is things such as minified js. The wordpress source contains the minified copies, and you can get the originals in separate tarballs from the wordpress site. It strikes me that this is *exactly* what the multiple-source-tarballs feature of 3.0. is for. Although, the fact these sources aren't used at all is troubling. If Debian used them (implemented the minifying as part of the build process) we might catch a problem upstream miss (not necessarily a bad thing). Of course, many of these could be separate source/binary packages in their own right[1], as they have value outside of wordpress, and be Build-Depends/Depends of wordpress. In fact a few already are: jquery (already packaged); swfupload (not yet); tinymce (already packaged)… [1] http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/wordpress.git;a=blob;f=debian/missing-sources/README;h=3c3b33eadc25e8c43ca6147a185e127a5cc8a856;hb=HEAD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120516124552.GB6784@debian
Re: big .debian.tar.xz - EG Wordpress
[Russell Coker] Would it be possible to have somewhere on the Debian servers for storing such files so that they can be referenced in a README file or something rather than sent to everyone? I'm sure that most people who build a Wordpress package won't use them. As Paul Wise said, best if we _do_ build things from source rather than relying on upstream binaries. But beyond that, if there is to be a separate place to put all the WordPress source we want to provide but you probably don't really need, for GPL reasons, it needs to be on all the mirrors alongside the source package you _do_ install. Not on some other website. So I guess that brings us to a .dsc that can reference multiple upstream tarballs (already possible, of course) but mark them such that by default you only download or unpack _some_ of the tarballs. The other option of course is to split wordpress into two source packages, and move all the users probably don't ever need to rebuild this stuff into the second source package and its corresponding binary package, which regular wordpress can depend on. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-devel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120516222407.gh2...@p12n.org
