Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Hi, On Thursday 22 March 2007 13:55, Marc 'HE' Brockschmidt wrote: Hmmm, if we do that, we could probably start handing out accounts for this web-based bug submission system, so that people who report more than one bug only need to answer once to such a mail. Hmmm, that sounds like we're rebuilding bugzilla again... I dont really see the need for an account system, IMO its not so bad to get a confirmation mail for every reported bug, because frequent reporters will switch to reporting via email anyway and for the rest its just hitting replys in the mail client - which is usually more convinient than remembering yet another password. But yes, an account system could be the icing on top of the cake ;) regards, Holger pgpKLutPTD02U.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Hi, On Friday 16 March 2007 00:49, Steve Langasek wrote: A large fraction of bug reports are bad or incomplete, so you need to ensure that you can contact bug submitters for more information. HTTP doesn't give you a callback mechanism, so you need to be able to tie the web submission back to an email address. That's easily solvable, isn't it: make the bug-submitter submit an email address too, send a email to that person saying someone, probably you has submitted a bug... reply or visit $URL to commit the bug to the BTS. regards, Holger pgpH7cEId4Y5l.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Holger Levsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Friday 16 March 2007 00:49, Steve Langasek wrote: A large fraction of bug reports are bad or incomplete, so you need to ensure that you can contact bug submitters for more information. HTTP doesn't give you a callback mechanism, so you need to be able to tie the web submission back to an email address. That's easily solvable, isn't it: make the bug-submitter submit an email address too, send a email to that person saying someone, probably you has submitted a bug... reply or visit $URL to commit the bug to the BTS. Hmmm, if we do that, we could probably start handing out accounts for this web-based bug submission system, so that people who report more than one bug only need to answer once to such a mail. Hmmm, that sounds like we're rebuilding bugzilla again... Anyway, I think that a proper account system wouldn't be too bad, and it could probably be tied together with usertags to implement features like watched bugs [1] and stuff like that. debbugs is a nice tool, but most people only use it seldomly and never find out about all the features that are already implemented. A better web-based interface could help those people, and leave the mail interface alone (which I, and many others who use debbugs a lot prefer). Marc Footnotes: [1] Which could be simply a pre-defined view on the usertags set by the email address associated with that account -- BOFH #242: Software uses US measurements, but the OS is in metric... pgpvGDpBF3qe0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Sat, 2007-03-17 at 23:38 +0100, Rafael Laboissiere wrote: I still would like to have a search mechanism on the bug titles list. Okay, after searching through the list of bugs open against reportbug, I found that this feature has been already requested twice: #358472 and #358760. Of course, I visited the bugs.d.o/reportbug page to do the search. The text interface of reportbug has the filter/search feature already: (1-15/15) Is the bug you found listed above [y|N|m|r|q|s|f|?]? ? snip f - Filter bug list using a pattern. ? - Display this help. Very handy for wnpp :) -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
* Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-03-19 00:57]: The text interface of reportbug has the filter/search feature already: (1-15/15) Is the bug you found listed above [y|N|m|r|q|s|f|?]? ? snip f - Filter bug list using a pattern. ? - Display this help. Very handy for wnpp :) Thanks for the tip. I wish I knew enough Python to hack reportbug and port the pattern search to the urwid UI... -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 02:21:02PM -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So to summarize you want tags which have the ability to be mutually exclusive? That could be a part of the solution. What I believe is necessary is a workflow for the bug, pretty much like the one with bugzilla, but this workflow has to be defined. Considering team work and stuff like this, an assigned status would be good too, with possibility, like forwarded, to specify an email address of the person dealing with the bug. That would make it clear, in teams, if bugs are dealt with, and by whom. Another waste of time is having to add the bug number to control messages, which is very error prone, while most of the time, there is only one bug treated at a time, which is in the To: or Cc: header. I also often forget to add control@ to Cc which makes me waste some more time to bounce the message or resend the control commands, so it would be even greater if one could just pass control commands to the bug directly. Simple checks could tell control commands and message apart. The moreinfo tag is pretty much useless, because unless someone unsets it, you don't know if a moreinfo bug has been answered or not. A message from the bug submitter should untag the bug. Something automatically tagging the bug if it has been answered by a maintainer would also help telling which bugs are unanswered. Or something to force the maintainer to tag confirmed or unreproducible. Tags are not only for maintainers, but also for the submitter, and also for people wanting to help triaging bugs. I think we should mandate that bugs must be tagged confirmed or unreproducible or some acknowledgement tag (ack ?). Also, the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address should reach the bug submitter. These are random ideas, which would improve *my* handling of bugs. I don't know if it would suit anyone. Comments anyone ? Mike PS: And (stupid idea), once triaged/untriaged bugs can easily be told appart, create an applet that would go in the notification area, and would give a (voluntary) user a random bug from the list of untriaged bugs that are related to the packages she uses the most for her to triage. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 09:09:43AM +0100, Mike Hommey wrote: Considering team work and stuff like this, an assigned status would be good too, with possibility, like forwarded, to specify an email address of the person dealing with the bug. That would make it clear, in teams, if bugs are dealt with, and by whom. Isn't that what setting the owner of the bug is supposed to be about? Something automatically tagging the bug if it has been answered by a maintainer would also help telling which bugs are unanswered. Or something to force the maintainer to tag confirmed or unreproducible. Tags are not only for maintainers, but also for the submitter, and also for people wanting to help triaging bugs. I think we should mandate that bugs must be tagged confirmed or unreproducible or some acknowledgement tag (ack ?). You might want to read the recent thread on -devel about this. Forcing people to jump through hoops like this is unlikely to be popular - it's a make work task in a lot of cases. Personally, I'd be more inclined to use tags if I could control the sorting of them in the web interface. Since I don't find the ordering the web interface uses at all helpful I'd really like to at least be able to turn it off. -- You grabbed my hand and we fell into it, like a daydream - or a fever. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 à 12:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 08:40:15AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Just try Bugzilla. Really. It has some major issues, but it is also considerably more advanced than debbugs in several domains. Yes, I have used buzilla to submit bugs to the Linux Kernel, Apache and for a few internal projects where people preferred it. It sucks. It is far too complex. And just because of that, you failed to see what we could learn from it. You know, the BTS too is far too complex. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Sat, Mar 17, 2007 at 07:42:26PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 à 12:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 08:40:15AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Just try Bugzilla. Really. It has some major issues, but it is also considerably more advanced than debbugs in several domains. Yes, I have used buzilla to submit bugs to the Linux Kernel, Apache and for a few internal projects where people preferred it. It sucks. It is far too complex. And just because of that, you failed to see what we could learn from it. You know, the BTS too is far too complex. I would have to disagree. First, I am not saying that we can't learn from bugzilla. It just seems to me that people are pushing for what amounts to a reimplementation of bugzilla (I think it was Steve who pointed that out). We can certainly learn from it, and I think we should. As far as the BTS being far too complex, I would have to wholeheartedly disagree. I'd like to know in what way(s) you consider it too complex. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Sat, 17 Mar 2007, Mike Hommey wrote: On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 02:21:02PM -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So to summarize you want tags which have the ability to be mutually exclusive? That could be a part of the solution. File the wishlist bug, please. an assigned status would be good too, with possibility, like forwarded, to specify an email address of the person dealing with the bug. This is what owner is for. it would be even greater if one could just pass control commands to the bug directly. Simple checks could tell control commands and message apart. This has been requested, but it's not trivial to determine if a message should be parsed for extracting control information or not. I wouldn't be averse to eventually allowing something like: Control: reassign # foopkg ; retitle # foobar ; thanks or similar to cause that pseudoheader set to be passed off to control for processing, where # was replaced with the [EMAIL PROTECTED] it was received at. The moreinfo tag is pretty much useless, because unless someone unsets it, you don't know if a moreinfo bug has been answered or not. A message from the bug submitter should untag the bug. It's not clear that a message from a submitter contains enough information to untag the bug. The next response from a maintainer should just unset it. Something automatically tagging the bug if it has been answered by a maintainer would also help telling which bugs are unanswered. It is possible to indicate whether the most recent mail of the person who is listed as the submitter has been responded to; it's also possible to indicate that. I think we should mandate that bugs must be tagged confirmed or unreproducible or some acknowledgement tag (ack ?). Mandating that people interact with their bugs in a specific way is not something that can be done. Making the documentation and recommended practices clear is the only appropriate way to do this. Also, the [EMAIL PROTECTED] address should reach the bug submitter. No, that's what [EMAIL PROTECTED] is for. It should be possible for submitters to indicate that they wish to receive all messages which are sent to the bug, but currently that has not been done. PS: And (stupid idea), once triaged/untriaged bugs can easily be told appart, create an applet that would go in the notification area, and would give a (voluntary) user a random bug from the list of untriaged bugs that are related to the packages she uses the most for her to triage. Consider yourself volunteered to write this. Don Armstrong -- If you find it impossible to believe that the universe didn't have a creator, why don't you find it impossible that your creator didn't have one either? -- Anonymous Coward http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=167556cid=13970629 http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
* Rafael Laboissiere [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-03-16 14:44]: * Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-03-16 20:11]: Try reportbug -u urwid. There is also -u newt, but it doesn't seem to work and has a big warning. Thanks. I did not know that this existed. I still would like to have a search mechanism on the bug titles list. Okay, after searching through the list of bugs open against reportbug, I found that this feature has been already requested twice: #358472 and #358760. Of course, I visited the bugs.d.o/reportbug page to do the search. -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Steve Langasek wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? IMHO the biggest problem of reportbug is that it is not announced in the end of the install process. I have seen so many (even skilled) Debian users who were not aware that there is something like reportbug. IMHO this definitely has to be advertised at at least one of the following places: 1) d-i before reboot. 2) When you leave aptitude and other package management tools or in a footline of these tools. 3) It is in fortunes-debian-hints, which is great, but there is no recomendation to install fortunes-debian-hints anywhere. I do not think that reportbug is to complicated (even if a GUI might not really harm) but the knowledge about this bug reporting tool is not spreaded wide enough. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, 2007-03-15 at 15:06 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? yes, actually. wrt web based interfaces: sure, it lowers the bar a bit, but if implemented intelligently it could require a certain minimum level of quality. but more important imho though is clearly discerning between a web based interface and an HTTP interface. i don't really have a strong opinion wrt teh web based interface, but having a cgi backend somewhere to process HTTP POST submissions in a similar format to what the debbugs server processes woudl be a Very Good Thing. as others have pointed out smtp is increasingly blocked by network administrators, and furthermore it's becoming more and more common for a system to not have an installed/active MTA running on it. and wrt the suggestion of just use webmail posted later on: this would also count as a web based interface, and imo would be the worst kind since you have no automatic information gathering, no input checking, and it's rather unintuitive. sean signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Andreas Tille schrieb: IMHO the biggest problem of reportbug is that it is not announced in the end of the install process. I have seen so many (even skilled) Debian users who were not aware that there is something like reportbug. IMHO this definitely has to be advertised at at least one of the following places: 1) d-i before reboot. 2) When you leave aptitude and other package management tools or in a footline of these tools. 3) It is in fortunes-debian-hints, which is great, but there is no recomendation to install fortunes-debian-hints anywhere. I know this is gonna be flamed down, but I'm feelin' brave today so let's try it anyway: 4) put an reportbug-ng icon on the desktop by default on every fresh installation I know this smells like the classic AOL-Button on every Windows-Desktop, but with our *users* in mind, it might be worth a try -- post-etch of course and when reportbug-ng is stable enough. Cheers, Bastian -- Bastian Venthur http://venthur.de Debian Developer venthur at debian org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 20:10 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:52:24AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: This is true for the initial report. But you also gain something bugzilla has and reportbug doesn't: you can crawl on the website, find an interesting bug, and direclty add some comments. I don't see how this is anything that can't be done (better) currently. Just try Bugzilla. Really. It has some major issues, but it is also considerably more advanced than debbugs in several domains. The simple fact that anyone having submitted a comment to a bug is automatically added to the CC list for later comments is something that should be trivial to implement. Instead, we have a bloated and useless subscription scheme. Separation between products and components is also something that we should have given how packages are currently managed. Instead of products and components, we would talk about teams and packages, but the concept is the same. I'm not saying that we should switch to bugzilla - it doesn't fit our needs. The version tracking in the BTS was also a major breakthrough that is still unique AFAIK. But the state of denial we are in, saying that our software can't be improved because it is better than everything else on all matters, is something that must stop. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 20:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : What will a web interface provide that cannot be found/done by browsing http://bugs.debian.org/src:pkgname ? A way for us to manage our 1600 bugs? E.g. something like this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=nautilus -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 04:14:40PM -0300, Gustavo Franco wrote: It was me that mentioned about the web submission in platform. I would Sorry for not mentioning you, I frankly forgot to, but even Sam mentioned that :) Thanks for your interest! I also prefer if the student can integrate this feature into debbugs and not inject the bug report through any other way. To avoid spam, debbugs can send a mail to the submitter that then need to reply the confirmation message, so it needs a queue limit, message timeout and stuff like that. Thoughts? Actually I don't think we should put as a requirement the integration into debbugs. At the very minimum the web bug reporter will need to be able to format an email and send it, with the additional requirement of querying the BTS before the submission as reportbug does. All this can be done as loosely coupled with debbugs as you want. Of course it would be better to integrate it into debbugs, but why impose that? Debian is fun even for this: new services spin-off as unrelatead services, eventually integrated into the trunk services. I'll mock up a proposal for the GSoC then ask for comments from people like you who expressed interest in this. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ (15:56:48) Zack: e la demo dema ?/\All one has to do is hit the (15:57:15) Bac: no, la demo scema\/right keys at the right time signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 03:06:33PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? Frankly no (even though the l10n example of Christian will probably make me change my mind). But still, I found the requirement of using SMTP for dealing with bugs an artificial constraint which hinder the usefulness of debbugs. Same goes for the 15 minutes delay in the result of bug mangling. Right now I fail to see a quick way to fix the latter, but I do see a similar quick way to fix the former: a web frontend. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ (15:56:48) Zack: e la demo dema ?/\All one has to do is hit the (15:57:15) Bac: no, la demo scema\/right keys at the right time signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jan Michael C. Alonzo) writes: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A large fraction of bug reports are bad or incomplete, so you need to ensure that you can contact bug submitters for more information. HTTP doesn't give you a callback mechanism, so you need to be able to tie the web submission back to an email address. You want to avoid joe-jobbing, so you require registration in advance of allowing bug submissions. Now you've reimplemented bugzilla, congratulations; and it's still inferior to reportbug because the website can't automatically gather information about the package status on your system when you submit a bug. Hi! Sure and I am with you here. But a debbugs web submission is not and I hope will not be a replacement for reportbug. I use reportbug myself and I like it a lot and it's very useful but sometimes, for example, filing an ITP can be a PITA. There are around 5000 bugs that I need to look at just to make sure I'm not filing a duplicate bug. And some people don't have that much time to do that. As for the web submission, there has to be something that will gather data about the reporter's environment and as such should be attached to the bug reports. I guess this is something the student should include in his or her proposal. If somebody takes this project, I'm sure Debian will get something out of it. If it doesn't work, then at least we can identify why it didn't work, etc Regards, jan -- They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin, 1759 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007, Bastian Venthur wrote: I know this is gonna be flamed down, but I'm feelin' brave today so let's try it anyway: 4) put an reportbug-ng icon on the desktop by default on every fresh installation I know this smells like the classic AOL-Button on every Windows-Desktop, but with our *users* in mind, it might be worth a try -- post-etch of course and when reportbug-ng is stable enough. While I wouldn't go as far as adding a permanent there are bugs in your operating system icon on the desktop, I agree reportbug(-ng) is not visible enough for newcomers. Concerning GNOME, the bug-buddy tool is not visible in any menu by default, but pops up when an application crashes (and a SIGSEGV is caught). I think we lack some integration in this area, there is definitely room for improvement such as collecting package versions, or sending bug-buddy reports to a .debian.org gateway (which may simply forward them upstream but collect some stats for us for example). Concerning visibility, Ubuntu does something very Windowish and I find the feature great: you get a welcome screen in the default GNOME you get after the installation. This seems to be a kind of mini-help center, a short presentation of Ubuntu. It's nice and polished, and I think this where we must be passing our messages, one of them being hey, help us improve Debian by submitting good bugs. -- Loïc Minier -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 07:59:02PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: This feature has to be implemented as an add on module to debbugs or entirely separately. It can use the Debbugs:: modules if it must, but it really should pull any information it requires using the soap interface so it doesn't have to run on b.d.o. My idea was more about implementing it entirely separately from debbugs just using an email as the final mechanism for web submission (as you suggested). Actually, I was not aware of the soap interface, I was only aware of an ldap interface. As I said, I'm more proposing it on the frontend side and I'm needing more knowledge on the backend side. Questions: - can you give me a pointer to the details of the SOAP interface? - assuming the entirely separately implementation I had in mind, do you have any other additional requirement on how to interact with debbugs beside mail for submission and SOAP for info retrieval? In any event, the appropriate place to discuss this sort of thing is debian-debbugs@lists.debian.org, not really here. Sorry, I posted on d-d just to grasp interested people. I agree that for discussing architectural/implementation details d-debbugs is the right place, but I won't do it now; sure I'll point out in the GSoC proposal that the taker student should discuss there those details. Just let me know if you think some other important requirements should be put in the proposal. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ (15:56:48) Zack: e la demo dema ?/\All one has to do is hit the (15:57:15) Bac: no, la demo scema\/right keys at the right time signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
* Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au [2007-03-16 13:03]: On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 10:23:09PM +, Lars Wirzenius wrote: A GUI version of reportbug would be nice, though. Having to open a terminal and deal with clumsy line based user interfaces is not a hindrance, but it is an obstacle, to me. Tried reportbug-ng? There's also Philip Kern's gnome-reportbug in experimental. I'm not sure what happened to the GUI control interface he wrote last year. Instead of a GUI or a web interface, what I would love to have is a curses-capable version of reportbug. As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, browsing wnpp bug report titles in reportbug is a real pain. A curses scrollable window would help a lot here, in particular if we could search for re patterns. -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 11:52 +0100, Rafael Laboissiere wrote: Instead of a GUI or a web interface, what I would love to have is a curses-capable version of reportbug. As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, browsing wnpp bug report titles in reportbug is a real pain. A curses scrollable window would help a lot here, in particular if we could search for re patterns. Try reportbug -u urwid. There is also -u newt, but it doesn't seem to work and has a big warning. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Am Freitag, den 16.03.2007, 20:11 +0900 schrieb Paul Wise: On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 11:52 +0100, Rafael Laboissiere wrote: Instead of a GUI or a web interface, what I would love to have is a curses-capable version of reportbug. As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, browsing wnpp bug report titles in reportbug is a real pain. A curses scrollable window would help a lot here, in particular if we could search for re patterns. Try reportbug -u urwid. There is also -u newt, but it doesn't seem to work and has a big warning. Any chance of including this information in reportbug's manpage? The --help option doesn't tell which interface are available. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
* Paul Wise [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-03-16 20:11]: On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 11:52 +0100, Rafael Laboissiere wrote: Instead of a GUI or a web interface, what I would love to have is a curses-capable version of reportbug. As someone mentioned elsewhere in this thread, browsing wnpp bug report titles in reportbug is a real pain. A curses scrollable window would help a lot here, in particular if we could search for re patterns. Try reportbug -u urwid. There is also -u newt, but it doesn't seem to work and has a big warning. Thanks. I did not know that this existed. I still would like to have a search mechanism on the bug titles list. -- Rafael -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Thomas == Thomas Weber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 11:52 +0100, Rafael Laboissiere wrote: Try reportbug -u urwid. There is also -u newt, but it doesn't seem to work and has a big warning. Any chance of including this information in reportbug's manpage? The --help option doesn't tell which interface are available. It's an easter egg :-). Seriously speaking, the urwid interface is pretty good. It's a shame it's not better documented, I never knew it existed. Ganesan -- Ganesan Rajagopal -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 08:19:42AM +0100, sean finney wrote: and wrt the suggestion of just use webmail posted later on: this would also count as a web based interface, and imo would be the worst kind since you have no automatic information gathering, no input checking, and it's rather unintuitive. That was me. What I meant was that the bug reporting instructions point out that reportbug can be used (is preferred, even) but that a properly formatted email can also be sent. Thus, anyone who can send some sort of email is capable of submitting a bug report, regardless of whether a local MTA exists. If such people are so anxious to use the web, they can do so via webmail. IMHO, that is no more likely to be bad than someone using thunderbird or evolution on the local machine. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 08:40:15AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 20:10 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:52:24AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: This is true for the initial report. But you also gain something bugzilla has and reportbug doesn't: you can crawl on the website, find an interesting bug, and direclty add some comments. I don't see how this is anything that can't be done (better) currently. Just try Bugzilla. Really. It has some major issues, but it is also considerably more advanced than debbugs in several domains. Yes, I have used buzilla to submit bugs to the Linux Kernel, Apache and for a few internal projects where people preferred it. It sucks. It is far too complex. The simple fact that anyone having submitted a comment to a bug is automatically added to the CC list for later comments is something that should be trivial to implement. Instead, we have a bloated and useless subscription scheme. How is it stupid. I submit comments to *lots* of bugs where I have *no* interest in seeing the rest of the traffic for. If I had to unsubscribe every time I made a comment on a bug, I'd get annoyed. I hate to think how vorlon would feel. He probably comments on sever dozen unique bugs a week. Separation between products and components is also something that we should have given how packages are currently managed. Instead of products and components, we would talk about teams and packages, but the concept is the same. I'm not saying that we should switch to bugzilla - it doesn't fit our needs. The version tracking in the BTS was also a major breakthrough that is still unique AFAIK. But the state of denial we are in, saying that our software can't be improved because it is better than everything else on all matters, is something that must stop. I'm not saying that it is better on all matters and that it can't be improved. What I am saying is that I don't see how slapping a web interface on debbugs is going to get us any closer to better than where we are now. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 08:42:57AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 20:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : What will a web interface provide that cannot be found/done by browsing http://bugs.debian.org/src:pkgname ? A way for us to manage our 1600 bugs? E.g. something like this: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/browse.cgi?product=nautilus Nice. That could be implemented by using user tags and a new summary view function, no? Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
I demand that Christian Perrier may or may not have written... [snip] Actually, I'm among the ppl who discourage the use of diff files for PO files. The various differences in formatting behaviour of the PO editing tools, versions of gettext utilities and the like usually generate too much crap in diffs. I normally let the update-po target at them before committing. That sorts out any formatting oddness and catches any breakage (and I've seen one or two broken files sent by translators). [snip] -- | Darren Salt| linux or ds at | nr. Ashington, | Toon | RISC OS, Linux | youmustbejoking,demon,co,uk | Northumberland | Army | + Travel less. Share transport more. PRODUCE LESS CARBON DIOXIDE. A closed mouth gathers no feet. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 12:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: The simple fact that anyone having submitted a comment to a bug is automatically added to the CC list for later comments is something that should be trivial to implement. Instead, we have a bloated and useless subscription scheme. How is it stupid. I submit comments to *lots* of bugs where I have *no* interest in seeing the rest of the traffic for. If I had to unsubscribe every time I made a comment on a bug, I'd get annoyed. I hate to think how vorlon would feel. He probably comments on sever dozen unique bugs a week. It's a check box under the comment field, Add me to CC list. It's not that hard to uncheck it when you make a comment if you don't care about the bug in the future. Ross -- Ross Burton mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] jabber: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.burtonini.com./ PGP Fingerprint: 1A21 F5B0 D8D0 CFE3 81D4 E25A 2D09 E447 D0B4 33DF signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 05:37:25PM +, Ross Burton wrote: On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 12:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez wrote: The simple fact that anyone having submitted a comment to a bug is automatically added to the CC list for later comments is something that should be trivial to implement. Instead, we have a bloated and useless subscription scheme. How is it stupid. I submit comments to *lots* of bugs where I have *no* interest in seeing the rest of the traffic for. If I had to unsubscribe every time I made a comment on a bug, I'd get annoyed. I hate to think how vorlon would feel. He probably comments on sever dozen unique bugs a week. It's a check box under the comment field, Add me to CC list. It's not that hard to uncheck it when you make a comment if you don't care about the bug in the future. Right, but then we are back to the web interface being required to get the full functionality. Unless you want to include a pseudo-header that indicates whether a subscription to the bug is preferred or not. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 20:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : What will a web interface provide that cannot be found/done by browsing http://bugs.debian.org/src:pkgname ? A way for us to manage our 1600 bugs? You can do this by using usertags, and then querying for things like: bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=foopkgtag=accessiblity; or similar. I personally haven't run into a case where it'd be useful to just show an overview page of the separation of bugs into categories, but that's just because I personally haven't dealt with packages with more than around 300 bugs. If you want features like this, the right thing to do is file wishlist bugs against debbugs or bugs.debian.org instead of complaining on -devel or worse, silently suffering. Don Armstrong -- It has always been Debian's philosophy in the past to stick to what makes sense, regardless of what crack the rest of the universe is smoking. -- Andrew Suffield in [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 07:59:02PM -0700, Don Armstrong wrote: This feature has to be implemented as an add on module to debbugs or entirely separately. It can use the Debbugs:: modules if it must, but it really should pull any information it requires using the soap interface so it doesn't have to run on b.d.o. My idea was more about implementing it entirely separately from debbugs just using an email as the final mechanism for web submission (as you suggested). Cool. Actually, I was not aware of the soap interface, I was only aware of an ldap interface. As I said, I'm more proposing it on the frontend side and I'm needing more knowledge on the backend side. Questions: - can you give me a pointer to the details of the SOAP interface? It's still in development, but: #377520; I'm planning on adding new features for interaction with debbugs as people request them. [The main reason why you want to use the soap interface instead of the ldap is that it will always be up to date with the BTS, and it reduces the external dependencies.] - assuming the entirely separately implementation I had in mind, do you have any other additional requirement on how to interact with debbugs beside mail for submission and SOAP for info retrieval? Those are the main ones; I may think of some later, but that's pretty much how reportbug works now. Don Armstrong -- Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it. -- Richard Feynman http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 01:01:06PM -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Josselin Mouette wrote: Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 20:34 -0400, Roberto C. Sanchez a écrit : What will a web interface provide that cannot be found/done by browsing http://bugs.debian.org/src:pkgname ? A way for us to manage our 1600 bugs? You can do this by using usertags, and then querying for things like: bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=foopkgtag=accessiblity; or similar. I personally haven't run into a case where it'd be useful to just show an overview page of the separation of bugs into categories, but that's just because I personally haven't dealt with packages with more than around 300 bugs. If you want features like this, the right thing to do is file wishlist bugs against debbugs or bugs.debian.org instead of complaining on -devel or worse, silently suffering. The problem with filing a bug is that it is one person talking of his own problem, while I think it would be much better if we all talked about it. Being one of those developpers who have to deal with a huge backlog of bugs, I can tell you debbugs doesn't help up. At all. And usertags are far from being a solution. Because of what they are: tags. Sure, they can help in some ways, but that really not enough. And normal tags have the same problem too: they are tags. The problem the BTS has with tags, is that they have no meaning, and that doesn't help when you want to filter, in or out, bugs, to make triaging more efficient. Bugzilla is much better on this matter. I already hear someone saying oh but tags do have a meaning, read http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Developer; Well, okay, let's take a look at this page, and to the definition of the most interesting ones to deal with bug backlog and unresponsive reporters: - moreinfo This bug can't be addressed until more information is provided by the submitter. (...) - unreproducible This bug can't be reproduced on the maintainer's system. Assistance from third parties is needed in diagnosing the cause of the problem. - confirmed The maintainer has looked at, understands, and basically agrees with the bug, but has yet to fix it. (...) A combination of moreinfo and unreproducible is understandable. Any other combination is meaningless and fails in every possible way to make a bug identificable from the summary page, which you really would like to be the case when you have to deal with hundreds of bugs. Yet, any of these combinations are possible, because tags are tags, and have no damn meaning. Setting a tag doesn't unset another one when these tags'meaning are antagonists. And yes, it happens very easily, look at #310882, #359965, and #342305. And there are dozens of these kind of tagging. I'll stop here for today, but this is far from being the sole PITA with using debbugs. Now, the thing is, someone could file a bug about this, but until we all decide what would be best for us all to deal with our bugs, what painful experiences we have with debbugs, nothing interesting is going to happen. There are a lot of possibilities to improve the situation, but all might not be suitable for all use cases. This is why it is better to have a thread on -devel now, than a useless bug opened on bugs.debian.org. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, 16 Mar 2007, Mike Hommey wrote: On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 01:01:06PM -0700, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you want features like this, the right thing to do is file wishlist bugs against debbugs or bugs.debian.org instead of complaining on -devel or worse, silently suffering. The problem with filing a bug is that it is one person talking of his own problem, while I think it would be much better if we all talked about it. That's fine, but talking about it has to be done, and it needs to culminate in filing bugs against debbugs or bugs.debian.org. You can't expect me (or other debbugs developers) to magically know the problems you have with interacting with the BTS; my mind reading skills just aren't up to the task. And usertags are far from being a solution. Because of what they are: tags. Sure, they can help in some ways, but that really not enough. And normal tags have the same problem too: they are tags. So to summarize you want tags which have the ability to be mutually exclusive? Don Armstrong -- Frankly, if ignoring inane opinions and noisy people and not flaming them to crisp is bad behaviour, I have not yet achieved a state of nirvana. -- Manoj Srivastava in [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Hi all, I'm willing to present a Debian project proposal for the Google Summer of Code [1] for implementing a web frontend for reporting bugs to the Debian BTS. I'm volunteering for being a mentor for such a project. I've expertise in the field of usability and I know, as an user, debbugs related services like the LDAP gateway; however I'm lacking in-depth knowledge of debbugs code. Hence I would feel more confident in proposing the project if someone with such knowledge join me in co-mentoring the project, in case an interested student shows up. Possible people interested in co-mentoring that come to my mind are Sam Hocevar (who mentioned a web-interface in his DPL platform), Bastian Venthur (who is developing reportbug-ng), Don Armstrong (who AFAIK is working actively on debbugs). I've Cc-ed these people. They, or anyone else interested in co-mentoring the project can contact me in private mail. Cheers. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2007 -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- Computer Science PhD student @ Uny Bologna, Italy [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ (15:56:48) Zack: e la demo dema ?/\All one has to do is hit the (15:57:15) Bac: no, la demo scema\/right keys at the right time signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On 3/15/07, Stefano Zacchiroli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I'm willing to present a Debian project proposal for the Google Summer of Code [1] for implementing a web frontend for reporting bugs to the Debian BTS. I'm volunteering for being a mentor for such a project. I've expertise in the field of usability and I know, as an user, debbugs related services like the LDAP gateway; however I'm lacking in-depth knowledge of debbugs code. Hence I would feel more confident in proposing the project if someone with such knowledge join me in co-mentoring the project, in case an interested student shows up. Possible people interested in co-mentoring that come to my mind are Sam Hocevar (who mentioned a web-interface in his DPL platform), Bastian Venthur (who is developing reportbug-ng), Don Armstrong (who AFAIK is working actively on debbugs). I've Cc-ed these people. They, or anyone else interested in co-mentoring the project can contact me in private mail. (..) Hi Zack, It was me that mentioned about the web submission in platform. I would like to co-mentor the project and/or any other proposal I've made there. I also prefer if the student can integrate this feature into debbugs and not inject the bug report through any other way. To avoid spam, debbugs can send a mail to the submitter that then need to reply the confirmation message, so it needs a queue limit, message timeout and stuff like that. Thoughts? regards, -- stratus http://stratusandtheswirl.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 07:28:11PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Hi all, I'm willing to present a Debian project proposal for the Google Summer of Code [1] for implementing a web frontend for reporting bugs to the Debian BTS. I'm volunteering for being a mentor for such a project. I've expertise in the field of usability and I know, as an user, debbugs related services like the LDAP gateway; however I'm lacking in-depth knowledge of debbugs code. I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On to, 2007-03-15 at 15:06 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? A GUI version of reportbug would be nice, though. Having to open a terminal and deal with clumsy line based user interfaces is not a hindrance, but it is an obstacle, to me. -- Rule #13 for successful communication: don't do Latin quotations -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On 3/16/07, Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On to, 2007-03-15 at 15:06 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? well a web-based submission is necessary in cases like mine where one is behind a university firewall and without any direct SMTP services -- Registerd Linux User #426561 - Shobhit Jindal B.Tech. Part-III, Department Of Electronics Engineering, ITBHU INDIA
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? I don't think this is about abilities. Do you think anyone who can't drive a car is an idiot? I don't think so. Having said that having a web-based submission of bugs also won't help if the user interface is badly designed. So how about putting the design of the interface in the open and let developers and stakeholders alike to decide which ones should go, which ones should be in the bug submission form, and which ones should not be there in the first place? Cheers. -- Why should I fear death? If I am, death is not. If death is, I am not. Why should I fear that which cannot exist when I do? -Epicurus, philosopher (c. 341-270 BCE) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 04:10:10AM +0530, Shobhit Jindal wrote: On 3/16/07, Lars Wirzenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On to, 2007-03-15 at 15:06 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? well a web-based submission is necessary in cases like mine where one is behind a university firewall and without any direct SMTP services Actually, you can just send in the report yourself through webmail or however you access email from your machine: http://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 09:48:53AM +1100, Jan Michael C. Alonzo wrote: Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? I don't think this is about abilities. Do you think anyone who can't drive a car is an idiot? I think most people are idiots, including most who can drive cars. But I'm not sure that's relevant. A large fraction of bug reports are bad or incomplete, so you need to ensure that you can contact bug submitters for more information. HTTP doesn't give you a callback mechanism, so you need to be able to tie the web submission back to an email address. You want to avoid joe-jobbing, so you require registration in advance of allowing bug submissions. Now you've reimplemented bugzilla, congratulations; and it's still inferior to reportbug because the website can't automatically gather information about the package status on your system when you submit a bug. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Le jeudi 15 mars 2007 à 16:49 -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit : HTTP doesn't give you a callback mechanism, so you need to be able to tie the web submission back to an email address. You want to avoid joe-jobbing, so you require registration in advance of allowing bug submissions. Now you've reimplemented bugzilla, congratulations; and it's still inferior to reportbug because the website can't automatically gather information about the package status on your system when you submit a bug. This is true for the initial report. But you also gain something bugzilla has and reportbug doesn't: you can crawl on the website, find an interesting bug, and direclty add some comments. -- .''`. : :' : We are debian.org. Lower your prices, surrender your code. `. `' We will add your hardware and software distinctiveness to `-our own. Resistance is futile. signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 04:49:36PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: Now you've reimplemented bugzilla, congratulations; and it's still inferior to reportbug because the website can't automatically gather information about the package status on your system when you submit a bug. I think with ActiveX we can get pretty far. Anyway, I agree on the submitting, but for manipulating bug status, a web interface can be in some ways and for some people be an productivity improvement. I might even be interested in mentoring someone who's interested in working on that, provided that this potential GSoC student's ideas on the subject are not too far away from what I have in mind. --Jeroen -- Jeroen van Wolffelaar [EMAIL PROTECTED] (also for Jabber MSN; ICQ: 33944357) http://Jeroen.A-Eskwadraat.nl -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 12:52:24AM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote: This is true for the initial report. But you also gain something bugzilla has and reportbug doesn't: you can crawl on the website, find an interesting bug, and direclty add some comments. I don't see how this is anything that can't be done (better) currently. Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Le Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 03:06:33PM -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit : On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 07:28:11PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: Hi all, I'm willing to present a Debian project proposal for the Google Summer of Code [1] for implementing a web frontend for reporting bugs to the Debian BTS. I'm volunteering for being a mentor for such a project. I've expertise in the field of usability and I know, as an user, debbugs related services like the LDAP gateway; however I'm lacking in-depth knowledge of debbugs code. I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? Hi all, There has been long thread on bug triaging recently. I think that a web interface to the BTS could make the task easier for volunteers, since exploring the bug space of a software (from the Debian package to the Debian derivatives and the upstream sources) is done mostly through the web. Have a nice day, -- Charles Plessy http://charles.plessy.org Wako, Saitama, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 09:13:19AM +0900, Charles Plessy wrote: Hi all, There has been long thread on bug triaging recently. I think that a web interface to the BTS could make the task easier for volunteers, since exploring the bug space of a software (from the Debian package to the Debian derivatives and the upstream sources) is done mostly through the web. What will a web interface provide that cannot be found/done by browsing http://bugs.debian.org/src:pkgname ? Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sanchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I'm willing to present a Debian project proposal for the Google Summer of Code [1] for implementing a web frontend for reporting bugs to the Debian BTS. Any such frontend must not be worse than reportbug at actually gathering information and providing real contact information for the submitter. I personally don't think one for submission will ever be as useful as reportbug, which is why I've never worked on it myself, and why I've marked #277744 wontfix. Hence I would feel more confident in proposing the project if someone with such knowledge join me in co-mentoring the project, in case an interested student shows up. I'm not averse to helping out, but you'll pretty much end up working with me or someone else with an [EMAIL PROTECTED] hat to actually implement it anyway. On Thu, 15 Mar 2007, Gustavo Franco wrote: I also prefer if the student can integrate this feature into debbugs and not inject the bug report through any other way. This feature has to be implemented as an add on module to debbugs or entirely separately. It can use the Debbugs:: modules if it must, but it really should pull any information it requires using the soap interface so it doesn't have to run on b.d.o. As far as submission, it should just operate by actually sending mail to a debbugs instance. In any event, the appropriate place to discuss this sort of thing is debian-debbugs@lists.debian.org, not really here. Don Armstrong -- Because, Fee-5 explained patiently, I was born in the fifth row. Any fool would understand that, but against stupidity the very Gods themselves contend in vain. -- Alfred Bester _The Computer Connection_ p19 http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 10:23:09PM +, Lars Wirzenius wrote: On to, 2007-03-15 at 15:06 -0700, Steve Langasek wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? A GUI version of reportbug would be nice, though. Having to open a terminal and deal with clumsy line based user interfaces is not a hindrance, but it is an obstacle, to me. Tried reportbug-ng? There's also Philip Kern's gnome-reportbug in experimental. I'm not sure what happened to the GUI control interface he wrote last year. Cheers, aj signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? Hint, Steve: l10n...:-) signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On Fri, Mar 16, 2007 at 07:20:50AM +0100, Christian Perrier wrote: I (continue to) object to the notion of web-based submission of bugs to Debian. Do you really think that someone who can't maneuver reportbug is capable of submitting a useful bug report? Hint, Steve: l10n...:-) Heh, I'm unhappy as it is with the practice of translators of submitting full .po files instead of diffs. ;) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
Hint, Steve: l10n...:-) Heh, I'm unhappy as it is with the practice of translators of submitting full .po files instead of diffs. ;) (getting OT) Actually, I'm among the ppl who discourage the use of diff files for PO files. The various differences in formatting behaviour of the PO editing tools, versions of gettext utilities and the like usually generate too much crap in diffs. Moreover, it's not unusual that a maintainer has to deal with PO files updates a quite long time after the bug submissionwith the original file being modified (even if only for formatting) in the meatime. So, many diff doesn't apply' interactions between maitnainers and translators happen pretty often. So, my usual recommendation for translators is just submit the full PO file, preferrably uncompressed and preferrably named exactly as it should be used. uncompressed is meant to save some time to maintainers. We're now away from the days where sending .gz files was a common trick to avoid bad handling of encodings by MUAs use the final name is also a time saver and will avoid some bad initiatives by maintainers such as naming German translations de_DE.po or Czech translations as cz.po signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: co-mentor for a GSoC proposal wanted: debbugs web submission
On pe, 2007-03-16 at 13:03 +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Thu, Mar 15, 2007 at 10:23:09PM +, Lars Wirzenius wrote: A GUI version of reportbug would be nice, though. Having to open a terminal and deal with clumsy line based user interfaces is not a hindrance, but it is an obstacle, to me. Tried reportbug-ng? No, actually. When I have time to set up a scratch machine to run unstable, I'll give it a whirl, thanks. -- Boilerplate programming mean tools lack power. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
