Re: Debian Edu sprint at MiniDebConf 2018 in Hamburg
Quoting Dominik George (2018-03-24 17:21:37) > For those on the non-edu lists, a quick reminder what Debian Edu is: > Debian Edu is a pure blend tailored to the needs of educational > networks. Please notice that Skolelinux is a Debian Blend, but not a Debian Pure Blend. Most parts are in Debian, but due to bug#311188 Skolelinux only fully works when installed from a non-Debian install media. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#848347: don't mess with gosa.conf on package upgrades
Excerpts from Holger Levsen's message of December 18, 2016 1:47 pm: On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 12:39:51PM +, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On the contrary, this smells to me like bug#311188 yet again. apt-file search gosa.conf Ah. Makes sense :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private pgptM5JBbpP87.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#848347: don't mess with gosa.conf on package upgrades
Excerpts from Holger Levsen's message of December 18, 2016 1:30 pm: control: severity -1 wishlist On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 01:09:09PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: There is nothing special about gosa.conf. Any conffile that is edited automatically experience this problem, and it commonly come up in Debian. yes, I'm thinking we should actually close this as not-a-bug. How does "commonly come up in Debian" make is a non-bug?!? On the contrary, this smells to me like bug#311188 yet again. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private pgpzjsg5Ijk6D.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Use of Kerberos in Debian Edu
Quoting Dominik George (2016-09-01 21:07:13) > I would, indeed, prefer to add Kerberos to our network as well, but at > the point where we figured out that we would want to have Kerberos, we > already had over a thousand users, and I have no idea how to add > Kerberos to that now. It would, in my understanding, involve having > each and every user reset their passwords, which is not feasable. > > If you happen to ahve an idea on how to add Kerberos without involving > actions by every user, please let me know and I will happily do. Should be possible to setup a custom PAM module that checks if the user is already in Kerberos, and if not captures the password and creates a Kerberos account for the user. After some time all _active_ users have triggered a Kerberos account creation, and you can migrate - dealing with password reset only for eventual inactive users chiming in later. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: [CCC-FSFTN] Fwd: Suggestion on choosing Distro
Hi Venkatesh, Quoting Venkatesh Thennarasan (2016-07-02 05:28:59) > I apologies for my late replies .Sorry , I was occupied with my > university exams No problem at all :-) > We have chosen the BalaSwecha OS for the CCC after discussions .Thanks > For all your suggestions and help Thanks for sharing the decision. Please do consider elaborating on which factors was prioritized and why, leading to that choice of yours. Also, I suggest to share such details not directly here on mail, but on a web page (e.g. a blog entry) and reference that page in an email -> I imagine that approach may get you more exposure. I wish you the best of joy and appreciation for your choice of OS. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Fwd: Suggestion on choosing Distro
Quoting Amey Abhyankar (2016-05-18 19:53:00) > Can you elaborate requirement in details? Thanks. Sorry, here is the post I replied to: https://lists.debian.org/debian-edu/2016/05/msg00015.html - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Fwd: Suggestion on choosing Distro
Hi Venkatesh, and others, Quoting Venkatesh Thennarasan (2016-05-12 07:38:55) > *In Tamil Nadu , India FSFTN has taken an initiative to take Free > Software to school Students through Education, Initially We have Taken > a Rural School in Outskirts of Theni Town. And Several Community > Computing Centers.* > > *We have planned to fork a Distro for the educational purpose and > design it based on the curriculum of Tamil Nadu's Education System. > And also Localize it.* > > *We like your suggestions on choosing the Distro, Would Your Distro be > suitable for the Purpose or do you suggest any Other Alternatives* I recommend you to stop and think very hard if you really need to fork. You will possibly reach your defined goal faster (due to less friction with others having different priorities than you), but an often missed detail is the aftermath of _maintaining the system for years to come. Many many Linux distributions have emerged but then withered away after the excitement around its launch have passed. Consider if possible to reach your goal not by forking but instead contributing to an existing system: Concretely I recommend that you contribute to Debian and help extend it to fit all your needs. Some of your needs are likely already covered thanks to Debian Edu being around and in active development for many years, but no doubt some parts are missing - help identify and add missing pieces to Debian! I recommend to collaborate with others in India who have done and/or are still doing similar efforts. I have cc'ed Arun, Prema and Kannan from project I have become aware of: * Arun: icfoss.in in Kerala - strong focus on pedagogics * Prema S: BOSS Linux in Chennai - Debian integration and deployments * Srikant: IIT Bombay - Vidyut laptop and e-learning There are no doubt several more. I dearly recommend you to subscribe to the mailinglist debian-dug...@lists.debian.org and use that to keep in touch with peers in the region. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Hacking the ldm login screen
Quoting Simon Oosthoek (2015-09-04 09:37:14) > On 09/03/15 22:29, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: >> Quoting Simon Oosthoek (2015-09-03 22:05:14) >>> On 28/08/15 16:27, Simon Oosthoek wrote: >>>> I want to change the bg of the login screen, not the individual >>>> desktops. >> [...] >>> I wonder if anyone knows how the resolution of the terminals is >>> determined and what ldm does with the backgrond image to fit it? >> You should probably get in touch with Jonathan and Valessio about >> this: https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage >> https://wiki.debian.org/ValessioBrito >> >> They were both involved with making the Spacefun theme for LDM: >> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/SpaceFun > > Hi Jonas, > > thanks for the links, I looked at the spacefun theme, but it looks like > it's not for ldm, but for kdm/gdmrc/grub/splashy/ksplash > There is a link for the theme for LTSP, so that would be LDM, but the > link is broken. > > Perhaps Jonathan can send me a valid link to look at it... Exactly: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/SpaceFun mentions that "The LDM theme didn't make it into Squeeze" and https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage mentions "LDM Themes → Spacefun theme" - and highvolatge's blog entry linked from both pages is missing which is the reason I suggest you get in touch with him :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Hacking the ldm login screen
Hi Simon, Quoting Simon Oosthoek (2015-09-03 22:05:14) > On 28/08/15 16:27, Simon Oosthoek wrote: >> I want to change the bg of the login screen, not the individual >> desktops. [...] > I wonder if anyone knows how the resolution of the terminals is > determined and what ldm does with the backgrond image to fit it? You should probably get in touch with Jonathan and Valessio about this: https://wiki.debian.org/highvoltage https://wiki.debian.org/ValessioBrito They were both involved with making the Spacefun theme for LDM: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianArt/Themes/SpaceFun > PS, obviously (and in the spirit of freedom) I'll share my work on > this with anyone who wants to use it too. Please add your findings to the Debian wiki - there it has higher chance of getting reused than (only) sharing here on the mailinglist. I suggest you ask Valession where would be a suitable place to put it, he is quite involved in Debian artwork. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Free Tools Question
Hi Sebastian, Quoting Sebastian Silva (2015-05-16 19:04:56) We wrote a manual for using the pootle system to translate Sugar [1]. Pootle is well known in Debian - but was in bad shape and removed. Info on its health is at https://packages.qa.debian.org/p/pootle.html and specifically about its dropout and potential reinclusion at https://bugs.debian.org/657499 - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#782504: education-desktop-sugar: Sugar broken in Jessie - will be dropped
Quoting Holger Levsen (2015-04-13 20:33:48) On Montag, 13. April 2015, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Sugar is broken due to bug#782414. sigh. Are you sure you really want to have sugar removed given Martins reply in https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=782414#15 ? Thanks for the (attempt at) alternative option, but I agree with the others who've already chimed in: It is true that this bug does not affect ad-hoc collaboration but that is still too big a bug - and even if not then other bugs in package dependencies need fixing too but I have no stomach to discuss with release team so is swift on giving up! Consequently please drop education-desktop-sugar as it serves no purpose in Jessie. ok, we will do this, once sugar is gone. No, please do it now: Sugar cannot be removed while other packages depend on it! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#782504: education-desktop-sugar: Sugar broken in Jessie - will be dropped
Package: education-desktop-sugar Version: 1.811 Severity: grave Justification: renders package unusable -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sugar is broken due to bug#782414. Consequently please drop education-desktop-sugar as it serves no purpose in Jessie. - Jonas -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJVK6mgAAoJECx8MUbBoAEhBUQP/3poMhEAjrFFdCxWN6RKeBbI qD7dLWKnMoo1+UzZdGVRMzQz33iRq2JcTJNxhk2c+t+eneeCljFT450XOsg7f9iX FSUC+hVbzh38LVU5v65eqEehDTN7QwJERpye2oCp48jJxtubs0V5IIJ2tld0PI8F yf3/PQXIBbtFE2+icagVKs8HEDKwVkFVJpVgsp4mdu2HG8LHPdmMs4hH2JIt06c2 Fa6uqj0wj3HeE9b99+5TqCa31MXmQyIPl4f0ZSGIlthGZdhiT4n80uErQN9nFJzz /51s6ZSzypAAAdXe03Mru0OmWLLq52WFP5HBqOnVWIfLptL0pcwdvhTHZj+7pVwI oS2uNyUVCZO/ujS2Im+VbOpFQ7jmkgn7146NTD7aug1o6wvc+2F8baLXGKReuZ36 ISa9WrBZ9A9joc38Morjy73a0+8/wEfw3tEUtC3Oj7f3vGER/VkhjIKAi7svCkBs krZoO6xAlS3jvj3uDT/G4Ud3V1GC/BL+DkPDJCsv0vBTgSXBZ5zEb415mWwTvnpq aVMak8EQhOa4NBZ7CIgkwvYPuc89SaY8csd/UAKKHJosPwX7uknXQ09fRBuaXI/p eUfkLL7u0sIJJQ3XXjjY/s59CFAmUXrqQXrhgP1t0dyYZ94tw+ERsBX4V/dABJrw W7mM2xEuTi4fUgZ84Tuw =ThJA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150413113355.20412.91815.report...@bastian.jones.dk
Bug#311188: debconf as a registry
Really, really cool analysis and wor, Bas!
Quoting Bas Wijnen (2014-10-17 07:41:21)
It's dh-parseconfig:
http://wijnen.dtdns.net/archive/unstable/{all,source}/dh-parseconfig*
[...]
I don't have a bug tracker yet, but I can upload this to unstable if
people don't complain too much about the code. ;-) Then the bts can be
used for feature requests (and bugs of course).
Please do release it to Debian. If you feel it is not yet in a usable
state for unstable then release it to experimental. I think having it
in Debian - even if not yet targeting a stable release, helps encourage
collaboration and (experimentation for future) adoption.
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
signature.asc
Description: signature
Bug#311188: debconf as a registry
Quoting Thomas Goirand (2014-10-17 09:51:04) On 10/17/2014 01:41 PM, Bas Wijnen wrote: I don't have a bug tracker yet, but I can upload this to unstable if people don't complain too much about the code. ;-) Then the bts can be used for feature requests (and bugs of course). Please don't upload this type of experimental software to Sid just right before the freeze. Please use experimental. A new package has no ties to the freeze - nothing depends on it and no older versions of itself is in testing - and therefore is fine to release to unstable, as it does not disrupt the freeze process. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#311188: debconf as a registry
Quoting Thomas Goirand (2014-10-17 17:47:27) On 10/17/2014 04:51 PM, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Quoting Thomas Goirand (2014-10-17 09:51:04) On 10/17/2014 01:41 PM, Bas Wijnen wrote: I don't have a bug tracker yet, but I can upload this to unstable if people don't complain too much about the code. ;-) Then the bts can be used for feature requests (and bugs of course). Please don't upload this type of experimental software to Sid just right before the freeze. Please use experimental. A new package has no ties to the freeze - nothing depends on it and no older versions of itself is in testing - and therefore is fine to release to unstable, as it does not disrupt the freeze process. Probably, however if we don't need the software in Stable for the next 3 years, because it's not production ready or even useful (yet), then there's no point to have it in Jessie. Jessie != unstable. If package is suitable for unstable, please upload to unstable. If package is suitable for unstable but not for testing, please upload to unstable and file severe bugreport to keep it from entering testing. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Wrong frequency? Please help
Quoting Franklin Weng (2014-10-13 07:42:44) We used Kubuntu 13.04 which was installed in the hard drive. It could run normally, and this is the normal Xorg.0.log. I still suggest you to test with a plain Debian system. Kubuntu is less helpful in triangulating the problem. If problem also exist with plain Debian, then try Debian testing/unstable, as it can be an issue with your hardware needing newer kernel and/or Xorg. In addition to .xsession-errors and Xorg.0.log, it is also relevant to gather the output of lspci to know which graphics hardware it is: I notice in your provided Xorg log that you use VESA driver, which may be an indication that your hardware is too new to be recognized/supported by the kernel+Xorg drivers. None of of I wrote above is specific to DebianEdu - except the detail that Debian is the _ancestor_ of DebianEdu whereas Kubuntu is more of a cousin (it is a _different_ derivative of Debian) and therefore Debian is a better reference platform for triangulating than Kubuntu. Debian has a much larger community than DebianEdu - I don't say that as a competition, but because this means you may be better off checking if issues you experience are specific to DebianEdu or common also for Debian and if the latter then involve yourself with the larger Debian community in resolving the bug - and then naturally share your findings with DebianEdu community too, to get it fixed there as well. :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Wrong frequency? Please help
Quoting Franklin Weng (2014-10-08 09:36:38) Recently I'm still trying to install debian edu to schools in Taiwan. [...] It looks like new PCs got wrong frequency from old settings. However, I have no idea where to change or to reset the X window settings. I suggest to try install plain Debian on one of those machines. If that works, compare settings (e.g. make a diff -ruN against /etc for each). If that fails similarly, then hunt that issue as a regular Debian issue rather than a DebianEdu one. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Bug#758116: Please be verbose whether you would like to get your Blend promoted by tasksel
[dropping persons from recipients, and adding bug#311188 ] Quoting Steven Chamberlain (2014-08-28 14:05:22) On 28/08/14 00:53, Holger Levsen wrote: On Mittwoch, 27. August 2014, Mike Gabriel wrote: I guess this only makes sense if a Debian Edu machine (standalone) can be installed via Debian's normal D-I, right? why? and why limit this to stabalone? Do the regular Debian Edu installers do some special configuration before the tasksel stage? Might this be too late in the installer to correctly install at least some of the machine types? The package debian-edu-install ships /etc/init.d/xdebian-edu-firstboot, registers debconf question debian-edu-install/run-firstboot, and checks for magic file /etc/debian-edu/xdebian-edu-firstboot.. The package debian.edu-config ships a range of CFEngine scripts and /usr/share/debian-edu-config/tools/run-at-firstboot. Above mechanisms stay dormant, however, unless triggered correctly - i.e. when installed on a normal system, nothing (bad) happens[1]. One answer to your question could therefore be a simple no. [1] https://bugs.debian.org/bug=311188#217 ...another more descriptive, I believe, answer could be You don't really have a Debian Edu system when installing it on a Debian system. I believe that second elaborated view is the reason for Mike's question. To me it is far from perfectly sense to offer Debian Edu in debian-installer to get some educational software - I would expect to get a Debian Edu system. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Reduce libcolord2 recommends on colord to suggests?
Hi, Quoting Christopher James Halse Rogers (2014-08-01 05:47:25) On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Petter Reinholdtsen p...@hungry.com wrote: [Christopher James Halse Rogers] I'm somewhat leary of reducing the strength of the dependency for a temporary installability problem; colord meets the requirement of “should be present on all but unusual configurations” when you've got libcolord2 installed. When looking at the two packages in isolation, I have no doubt you are right. But when seen from the more distant dependencies (like notification-daemon or any other package depending on libgtk-3-0), I believe it do not make sense to say that colord should be present on all but unusual configuration for all these packages. Do you agree? Yes, for notification-daemon. Since colord is only used in printing support, if we had a way to specify “Recommends: colord (if_package_uses_gtks_printing_symbols)” then I'd certainly use that. My feeling is that a fairly significant number of GTK+ applications use the printing infrastructure, and so, although it's not useful for *all* rdepends of libgtk-3-0, I don't think it's unreasonable for libgtk-3-0 to pull in colord. Package dependencies, recommendations and suggestions are _directed_ graphs: libraries should generally¹ _not_ depend/recommend/suggest binaries, only the other way around. ¹) only when e.g. a library would *crash* when a binary is unavailable should the library recommend/depend on that binary. What you include into your reasoning is a _chain_ of relationships: GTK+ applications which need colord for most of their usecases should recommend/depend on colord on their own. If that means most of them it is not an argument for adding an _reverse_ relationship from the library, but instead an argument for GTK+ library to consider adding the relationship on behalf of its binaries. GTK+ in Jessie also links against libwayland - but libwayland does not declare a relationship to xwayland or weston. Not because Wayland is not yet popular (that would only be a shift from recommending to suggesting), but because a library is _offering_ its functionalities to binaries. This is a really generic problem affecting the Debian installer, not something specific to Debian Edu. When Debian manage to switch to systemd, the issue will be hidden again. So it is not a question of when Debian Edu migrate, it is a question of when we all in Debian migrate. :) I'm not sure that ‘hidden’ is the right word here. The problem is precisely the in-progress transition to systemd. The word hidden is IMO the right word in the context of Debian-Edu versus Debian timing of switch to systemd, but switch to systemd is not the issue we are discussing here - it is merely an example consequence of too strong package dependencies. Hope that helps, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Reduce libcolord2 recommends on colord to suggests?
Quoting Christopher James Halse Rogers (2014-08-01 09:41:06) On Fri, Aug 1, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk wrote: Quoting Christopher James Halse Rogers (2014-08-01 05:47:25) On Thu, Jul 31, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Petter Reinholdtsen p...@hungry.com wrote: [Christopher James Halse Rogers] I'm somewhat leary of reducing the strength of the dependency for a temporary installability problem; colord meets the requirement of “should be present on all but unusual configurations” when you've got libcolord2 installed. When looking at the two packages in isolation, I have no doubt you are right. But when seen from the more distant dependencies (like notification-daemon or any other package depending on libgtk-3-0), I believe it do not make sense to say that colord should be present on all but unusual configuration for all these packages. Do you agree? Yes, for notification-daemon. Since colord is only used in printing support, if we had a way to specify “Recommends: colord (if_package_uses_gtks_printing_symbols)” then I'd certainly use that. My feeling is that a fairly significant number of GTK+ applications use the printing infrastructure, and so, although it's not useful for *all* rdepends of libgtk-3-0, I don't think it's unreasonable for libgtk-3-0 to pull in colord. Package dependencies, recommendations and suggestions are _directed_ graphs: libraries should generally¹ _not_ depend/recommend/suggest binaries, only the other way around. Hm. I've not seen this view expressed before. Do you have any authoritative reference, or is this a synthesis of conversations over time? What is authoritative is Debian Policy §7.2: The `Recommends' field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. My interpretation emphasizes the lack of and vice versa in above quote. That in my experience matches how APT resolvers work. To paraphrase, your interpretation seem to imply an and their reverse dependencies in above quote. That causes problems like resolving the complex systemd transition which Petter used as example here. I have expressed similar view in the past: * https://bugs.debian.org/608807#10 ices2←libroar←libdnet←dnet-common * https://bugs.debian.org/612887#15 cmus←libroar←libdnet←dnet-common * https://bugs.debian.org/627083#15 libjack←jackd * https://bugs.debian.org/739783#5 ruby-bootstrap-sass←ruby-sass-rails * https://bugs.debian.org/750755#15 libmime-lite-perl←default-mta * https://bugs.debian.org/752797#20 libconfig-model-perl←fuse ¹) only when e.g. a library would *crash* when a binary is unavailable should the library recommend/depend on that binary. What you include into your reasoning is a _chain_ of relationships: GTK+ applications which need colord for most of their usecases should recommend/depend on colord on their own. If that means most of them it is not an argument for adding an _reverse_ relationship from the library, but instead an argument for GTK+ library to consider adding the relationship on behalf of its binaries. GTK+ in Jessie also links against libwayland - but libwayland does not declare a relationship to xwayland or weston. Not because Wayland is not yet popular (that would only be a shift from recommending to suggesting), but because a library is _offering_ its functionalities to binaries. I actually don't see why this would be a problem (modulo xwayland not being interesting, and using a virtual wayland-compositor package instead). The library is offering its functionalities to the binary, but *has* no functionality unless its corresponding daemon is running. Right, and same applies for libcolord: Its offer is to talk to colord when running, else no fucntionality. Binaries needing colord should (have their package) suggest/recommend/depend on colord on their own. ...just as Wayland applications should suggest/recommend/depend on wayland on their own, not rely on libwayland to do it for them. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Administration framework of skolelinux
Hi Franklin, Quoting Franklin Weng (2014-02-03 10:19:53) I'm from Taiwan. We have a project named ezgo which is similar to Skolelinux. Great to hear of EZ-Go! project in active use. It might interest you to know about some past collaboration between EZ-Go! and Skolelinux: Eric Sun - who coined the EZ-Go! project - and Andrew Lee attend Skolelinux gathering in Oslo, Norway in fall 2008. Eric gives a presentation about EZ-Go! Andrew attends Debconf9 in Spain in summer 2009. He and I discuss possibilities of getting more Debian involvement in Debian. Andrew decides to try add a Debian track at an upcoming ICOS event in Taipei. Holger Levsen and I (and a bunch of others from Debian but not directly involved in Skolelinux) attend Debian MiniDebconf Taiwan in fall 2009. Eric Sun and others from ISSOC attend the conference as well. Here is the introduction of ezgo: http://dot.kde.org/2013/10/02/ezgo-free-and-open-source-software-taiwans-schools Nice article. Not certain, but I think I recognize - in the release party picture to the far right - my friend Eric Sun. :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: FSF Europe: Skolelinux pilot in Rhineland Palatinate – Lessons learned
Quoting Kurt Gramlich (2012-11-29 15:07:00) * Petter Reinholdtsen p...@hungry.com [121128 22:21]: Via Twitter I just came across a blog post from FSF Europe, about a presentation held by Kurt about the Skolelinux deployment in Rhineland Palatinate. Check out URL: http://blogs.fsfe.org/guido/2012/11/skolelinux-pilot-in-rhineland-palatinate-lessons-learned/ . I am still waiting for the video. My presentation is here: http://www.skolelinux.de/download/FroSCon2012/rlp2012.pdf (in German ;-) Did that video ever emerge? I'd be happy to try transcribe it into english, to help it reach a wider audience. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: FSF Europe: Skolelinux pilot in Rhineland Palatinate – Lessons learned
Quoting Kurt Gramlich (2014-01-17 17:25:27) * Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk [140117 14:30]: Quoting Kurt Gramlich (2012-11-29 15:07:00) * Petter Reinholdtsen p...@hungry.com [121128 22:21]: Via Twitter I just came across a blog post from FSF Europe, about a presentation held by Kurt about the Skolelinux deployment in Rhineland Palatinate. Check out URL: http://blogs.fsfe.org/guido/2012/11/skolelinux-pilot-in-rhineland-palatinate-lessons-learned/ . I am still waiting for the video. My presentation is here: http://www.skolelinux.de/download/FroSCon2012/rlp2012.pdf (in German ;-) Did that video ever emerge? I'd be happy to try transcribe it into english, to help it reach a wider audience. they had a disk crash at froscon ... and in Chemnitz, there is only a sound version http://chemnitzer.linux-tage.de/2013/vortraege/229 Oh, too bad :-( - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Q: Small system for Mini ITX as stand-allone surfstation
Quoting Ralf Gesellensetter (2014-01-14 20:50:21) currently, I try to recycle some (approx. 10 years) old thin clients (Epia Mini-itx) as stand allone surf stations. Trying to boot any recent kernel makes the system hang; my research gave hints that the current kernel misses some firmware to support this chipset, or needs some CPU standard that the lacks the VIA processors. None of the EPIA boards (that I am aware of, and I have used quite a few) require firmware to boot (some may benefit from firmware to improve ethernet, but that's a different story). More likely you need the 486 kernel instead of the 686 kernel installed by default nowadays. Try that if you haven't already. If that is not the problem, then it might help if you share which particular EPIA board you are messing with. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Bug#714433: debian-edu: missing fsck.xfs if XFS filesystem is choosen during disk partitioning
Quoting Christian Kuelker (2013-06-30 13:07:10) On 06/30/2013 08:27 AM, Simone Rossetto wrote: Il 29/06/2013 12:07, Petter Reinholdtsen ha scritto: Why do you want to use xfs? In other words, why should we support xfs? Actually there isn't a real reason... [..] Not sure if you should support, but here is on reason why I am using XFS as root fs since many years now on Debian (not Debian-Edu). The reason for me is, that it need no fsck on startup also very much more unlikely to break in case of power loss. I think you search automatically for alternatives if you maintain servers without console, monitor or thousands of them. What does not need fsck is journaling filesystem, which includes XFS but also ext3fs and ext4fs. What does need fsck is (for non-journaling filesystems) interrupted writes but also (for journaling filesystems as well) other causes of corruption. I suspect your description of XFS use implies running xfs_check only manually - i.e. comparable to tune2fs -c 0 ... for ext3fs and ext4fs. Nice article on fsck here: https://lwn.net/Articles/248180/ - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Add armhf architecture to our APT source for Raspberry Pi users?
Quoting Petter Reinholdtsen (2013-05-17 12:32:37) As you might have noticed on #debian-edu, I wrote the debian-edu-bless script to help our student Nirosan Thiyagalingam, supervised by our Marius Kotsbak in FRiSK, to port Debian Edu to Raspberry Pi. This will allow schools to use these cheap computers as clients. I just blogged about the debian-edu-bless recipe in URL: http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/How_to_transform_a_Debian_based_system_to_a_Debian_Edu_installation.html , but there is a small snag blocking those wanting to do this testing on their own. Our whezy(-test) APT repositories do not provide the armhf architecture. I can imagine how it might be helpful to provide an armhf flavor for arch-all packages (whacky as it may sound). But... The procedure only need the platform independent packages (ie debian-edu-install, debian-edu-config and debian-edu-artwork) to work, so we do not really need to build the debian-edu packages for armhf. At least not for the initial testing. ...your last remark here indicates that you may want to include architecture-specific stuff later, which won't be so simple if you want to support Raspberry Pi. Not sure if you are already aware, but Raspbian, although branded as armhf is not same architecture as the Debian armhf. Raspberry Pi is ARMv6. Debian arm is optimized for ARMv5 but also works (albeit not using its full potential) for ARMv6. Debian armhf is optimized for ARMv7 and won't work for ARMv6 hardware. I find it frustrating how the Raspberry Pi project has chosen to label their code and promote it as Debian-compatible. I think it will be most helpful to either setup a raspbian port with (their different definition of) an armhf arch, or (simpler but less exciting to use) extend the current Debian suite with an arm arch. Hope that helps, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130517105259.29499.7...@bastian.jones.dk
Re: Install scratch by default on Debian Edu Desktops in Wheezy?
Quoting Petter Reinholdtsen (2013-04-21 10:51:24) Here in Norway, the effort to teach kids to program is gaining tracktion, and one of the programs promoted is the scratch system for visual programming. The scratch package is available in Debian Wheezy, but not installed by default in Debian Edu. Should we install it as part of the desktop profile? Scratch is aimed at teenagers, I believe. For younger kids you may want to include EToys (your education-desktop-sugar currently suggests it, but it works fine outside of Sugar as well). - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-edu-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130421154138.26421.58...@bastian.jones.dk
Re: Report from Debian Med Sprint
Quoting Andreas Tille (2013-03-08 08:53:05) [related but different question aimed at Holger snipped] After having realised that all packages are now really in Debian (I somehow lived under the precondition that this is not the case) and after sleeping over or longish private chat (BTW, I somehow have the feeling that we should publish this somehow to enable others following the discussion) I was waking up with a question targeting in this direction. You are arguing here that Debian Edu is not Debian because there is one open bug? Is this correct? If yes, who does this relate to other things in Debian with open bugs? being Debian and being in Debian are different matters. I argue that even though all Debian Edu packages are in Debian, it can only be installed outside of Debian. Reason for that is bug#311188. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: suggestion for bug#311188 // Re: Report from Debian Med Sprint
Hi Ralf, Quoting Ralf Gesellensetter (2013-03-08 19:42:59) Hey Jonas, how is it going? Fine, thank you. Hope you are well too. Am Freitag, 8. März 2013 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: I argue that even though all Debian Edu packages are in Debian, it can only be installed outside of Debian. Reason for that is bug#311188. [distracting joke snipped] I wonder if this could solve it (to meet the rules without losing the power): Imagine there was a unionfs layer to put the altered conf files, while leaving alone their orignal versions on the base layer? Yes, avoiding interaction with the Debian system would obviously sidestep issues of violating rules on _how_ to interact. Similar to how abstaining from sex is an pretty effective way to avoid sexual diseases. It has been tried a few times in the past, e.g. by Wolfgang Rohrmoser as I recall. In case you are curious to investigate further. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Report from Debian Med Sprint
Quoting Jonas Smedegaard (2013-03-07 13:00:42) Quoting Holger Levsen (2013-03-07 11:01:14) On Mittwoch, 6. März 2013, Andreas Tille wrote: Debian Edu only exists outside of Debian, even if all of its parts are in Debian. Install all of the Debian Edu packages on a Debian system, and the result is not Debian Edu. wrong. Great. I am quite happy to be wrong there. Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on how it is wrong? I notice that you snipped the part where I referenced bug#311188 and wonder how Debian Edu works fine when still in violation. Or if that is wrong too, then why bug#311188 is still open. Holger: Ping! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Report from Debian Med Sprint
Quoting Andreas Tille (2013-03-06 19:29:34) [Moving the discussion that was marked [x] quote me freely to Debian Edu list.] Andreas, please let's not bother Debian Edu with our boring emails. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Report from Debian Med Sprint
Quoting Holger Levsen (2013-03-07 11:01:14) On Mittwoch, 6. März 2013, Andreas Tille wrote: Debian Edu only exists outside of Debian, even if all of its parts are in Debian. Install all of the Debian Edu packages on a Debian system, and the result is not Debian Edu. wrong. Great. I am quite happy to be wrong there. Could you perhaps elaborate a bit on how it is wrong? I notice that you snipped the part where I referenced bug#311188 and wonder how Debian Edu works fine when still in violation. Or if that is wrong too, then why bug#311188 is still open. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Wheezy Gosa² setup
Gi Giorgio (and others), Quoting Giorgio Pioda (2013-01-19 12:59:40) In my wishlist I would also like to see Cfengine3 deeper boundled; im currently using it since November to keep the client in sync and is really great to automatize additional packages and configs. Yes, I have also had several deployed setups (not any more) that were fully maintained by Cfengine3. However, if a switch over to Debian LAN will be in the discussion, one should see what can be handled by FAI and if then is anything left that has to be handled by cfengine. But FAI itself is a mix of Cfengine2 with other tools. Cfengine3 should support Cf2 legacy scripts. Isn't it? CFEngine is both a scripting engine and a site-wide OS customizing framework. FAI is an OS install and customizing framework. FAI can make use _some_ CFEngine _scripts_ (and many other scripts), but the core of the FAI framework is different from CFEngine the framework. I agree with Mike that a move to FAI is a different path than tying CFEngine scripts to the CFEngine framework. I believe that a move to FAI will make Debian Edu easier to reuse for similar but not identical Debian usecases. I believe that use of CFEngine the framework has a higher risk of drifting further away from Debian than FAI. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: Do you have a blog?
Quoting Mike Gabriel (2012-12-09 18:34:06) On Mi 31 Okt 2012 09:52:44 CET Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Hi. Do you have a blog? One that would be interesting to have included on the Debian Edu/Skolelinux blog aggregrator, URL: http://planet.skolelinux.org/ ? I now have one! http://sunweavers.net/blog/ You might also wanna add yourself to the Debian Planet too, if you haven't done so already: https://wiki.debian.org/PlanetDebian - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: signature
Re: FSF Europe: Skolelinux pilot in Rhineland Palatinate – Lessons learned
Quoting Klaus Knopper (2012-11-28 23:46:41) On Wed, Nov 28, 2012 at 10:21:16PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Via Twitter I just came across a blog post from FSF Europe, about a presentation held by Kurt about the Skolelinux deployment in Rhineland Palatinate. Check out URL: http://blogs.fsfe.org/guido/2012/11/skolelinux-pilot-in-rhineland-palatinate-lessons-learned/ . Thanks for sharing, Petter! What I miss in the presentations about lessons learned is: 1. _Which_ lessons have been _learned_? And by whom? (It's not very useful to discuss whether or not any politicians are guilty, is it?) 2. What's Kurt's role in this? Afaik, he was involved as advisor for the ministery. I was curious to know whether he thinks his advices were ignored, or misunderstood in some way, but can't find this in the presentation. And, how can this be improved in possible future GNU/Linux projects under the hood of the ministery? Those are good questions. But seems more about placing responsibility. Having been involved in the project on the software development side, I already sent a few reports and questions about cooperation to this list during the project. My impression from that blog entry was - as the title hints - the focus on learning: discoveries of dynamics in such a project, which are likely to appear in other similar projects as well, no matter who has which roles in it. I look forward to watch the video when ready. In addition to raising questions, I would dearly appreciate to hear about your lessons learned, Klaus. ...which obviously bounces back on myself. I should also try share my reflections from that adventure of ours :-) Regards, - Jonas signature.asc Description: signature
Bug#678931: debian-edu-config: modified base pam configuration after purge
On 12-06-25 at 08:34am, Andreas Beckmann wrote: Package: debian-edu-config Version: 1.701 Severity: important User: debian...@lists.debian.org Usertags: piuparts Hi, during a test with piuparts I noticed your package modifies files from another package. Furthermore there are a lot of unowned files left behind. Looks like an instance of bug#313388. This bug should have higher severity IMO, as it is a Policy violation. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: new sections: education metapackages
On 12-06-19 at 08:48am, Andreas Tille wrote: On Mon, Jun 18, 2012 at 03:43:47PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: And now I wonder under which section to move the debian-edu* packages to: education for all but those build from debian-edu, which belong under meta-packages? Or are they all metapackages as their purpose is to setup an education distro and since they dont contain educational software themselves? I'm personally in favour of education because I assume that's where users might seek first. I have no idea whather I'm right with this assumption. BTW, did I said that Debian Edu packages need some more changes than just changing the section? I would say the opposite. Else metapackages would really mean metapackages of miscelanous topics not covered elsewhere which I find is not its purpose. If metapackages is nonsense specifically for educational stuff, then I'd be happy to hear examples of when it is sensible. If, on the other hand, metapackages is generally considered nonsense then I find it better to raise that discussion on debian-devel that by discretely working against it. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Single sign on to windows?
On 12-05-24 at 03:03pm, George wrote: It seems as if they have removed some of the modules for freerdp in the repos for squeeze. They are missing even in the dev package. I guess the only thing to do is to download the source-code and see if it will compile, or if they are removed out of compability issues. Please file a bugreport against freerdp to raise awareness of this issue and hopefully get it solved eventually: aptitude install reportbug reportbug freerdp If you want to include this list in the conversation at that bugreport, feed the mailinglist address to reportbug when asked about additional addresses. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: ITP: italc2 -- Intelligent Teaching and Learning with Computers
On 12-05-12 at 11:23pm, Andreas Tille wrote: On Sat, May 12, 2012 at 10:20:54PM +0200, Mike Gabriel wrote: Setting up a Debian Edu packaging is definitely a good idea. However, collab-maint is still a good place to keep the packaging Vcs, maybe even preferable to /git/debian-edu/package.git (as any DD can write to collab-maint). By using ACLs Alioth admins can perfectly organise that any DD can write to /git/debian-edu - we have just done this in Debian Med. Quite interesting! I will suggest doing that for all teams I am involved in! @Andreas: I recommend you repost to debian-devel@. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#311188: Draft proposal for handling configuration file manipulations in Debian blends
[re-adding bugreport to list of recipients] On 12-01-31 at 10:17pm, Mike Gabriel wrote: Hi Andreas, hi Jonas, hi all, thanks for the reply!!! On Fr 27 Jan 2012 11:44:02 CET Andreas Tille wrote: On Thu, Jan 26, 2012 at 04:27:40PM +0100, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: [...] [...] I also would like to add the following: Mike's suggestion needs some dpkg/apt/whatever coding first. It does not help to make good suggestions if you will not come up with patches which you tested for some time and than make the maintainers of this core functionality accepting these patches. This is not an easy job and according to my experience this takes ages. I am aware of this. Before starting to code comes enrolling people, discussing possibilities, listening to what's already there, listening to other people's ideas, etc. It does not really make sense to start coding into the dark and finding out that it is not at all the way to go. I'm comparing with how long it took to make apt aware about description translations - and translations is a feature about 50% of all Debian users might really *want*. Unfortunately we need to realise that Blends is - like it or not - a quite unknown topic in the Debian universe even if I try my best to talk about it at any DebConf and other events. I like to quote Peter Eisentraut: You are talking about something which does not exist. Well, it is not that drastical, but changing the Debian infrastructure on behalf of the needs of Blends is at current state not realistic. ACK. However, if we are talking about #311188 I think what we could try to approach is making config issues of Blends RC critical and thus making the bugs we filed against those packages RC critical which in turn would enable us NMUing packages of maintainers which are not willing to help us otherwise. I know that's also not very nice but would solve the problem we are facing and is way more realistic to be solved until June (suggested freeze time). :-) /me likes this... However, I am rather not thinking about wheezy, this is a short period. For wheezy the Debian Edu goal has to be to release D-E wheezy with the first or second point release of D-E wheezy. Apart from that I hear voices that want to change over to using Git for D-E development (I am one of that voices). I am pretty sure that anyone interested in blending would be excited if you invent/refine needed mechanisms for above two needs. ...if done Policy compliant - which does *not* mean weaken Policy but (understand reasons for and) obey Policy. I am less sure that anyone else will volunteer to do the work for you, if that's what you are asking. Personally I would not, because I cannot imagine such work bear fruit - i.e. become Debian Policy compliant. Perfectly correct. You just will not manage to convince somebody else to do the work for you. That's why I would suggest to find a way were you can do the work yourself more easy (just do an NMU). Should we not address this approach (blend bugs = RC critical bugs - make NMUing possible) on debian-devel ML? If you mean raise severity of bug#311188, then that bugreport belongs to Skolelinux, so if feel representative for Skolelinux and you consider the issue more severe than currently tagged then go ahead and change it. I've argued strongly in the past that is was more severe, but have been overruled by Debian release managers, and Petter Reinholdtsen also disagrees (see approx. 30min. into Debconf11 Skolelinux meeting video). If you mean raise severity of bugs underlying bug#311188 then feel free to try, but beware that they package maintainers of those packages have the last say. If you want to force raise severity despite the judgement of respective owners of bugreports, then you should contact the Technical Committee, not raise it at d-devel@ (but going down that route is not recommended). Having said all that, you need not raise severity in order to make NMUs. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#311188: Draft proposal for handling configuration file manipulations in Debian blends
Hi Mike, On 12-01-26 at 11:13am, Mike Gabriel wrote: To address #311188 the latest approach that has been discussed is enrolling the maintainers of all affected packages (and that can be many) to add blend-customized debconf values to their packages so that a clean preseeding of the package is possible. Correct. Thanks for summarizing. [debathena comment snipped] So, my opinion is that without implementing the blending mechanism within Debian policy itself (and that is also: within dpkg itself), we may possibly stall here for longer. It is the other way around: Debian Policy only reflects what is already consensus in Debian, so changing policy requires to first create consensus and then - after the fact - document it in Debian Policy. So, my proposal is: * let Debian blends become a real element of the Debian package system * that is: implement in dpkg three options: - Option 1: --blend=blend-name - Option 2: --unblend - Option 3: --init-blend (or --native2blend or similar) What does the above mean? Is it flags tied to a source package or to a binary package or to a system? If the latter then I suspect that you may really mean APT, not DPKG. In other words, does it imply that only a single blend can be applied? If really you are trying to document debathena rebranded as blends then please say so. If so it also seems sensible to involve the developers of debathena - either by discussing with them first to understand why their package(s) live only outside of Debian, not (tried to become) official part of it, or invite them to this very discussion directly. * This blending process may do the following... **of course, the below has to become a legal part of Debian now...** - create copies of existing configuration file(s) conf.d folders in package-name /etc/folder/cf-file - /etc/folder/cf-file.dpkg-native /etc/folder/cf-folder.d - /etc/folder/cf-folder.d.dpkg-native - divert the original configuration file and conf.d folder names to the corresponding files/folders in the /etc/blend/edu namespace. - tag the affected package (maybe in /var/lib/dpkg/info) as blended Above seems like the central piece of where we are stalled at the moment regarding nedding-different-config-than-package-offers: The way forward is not to legalize mechanisms currently violates Policy, but to work on refining said mechanisms to a point where the Debian community is convinced that it is sane to do, and _then_ document the fact in Policy. I believe dpkg does not reliably support diverting conffiles. That particular piece can be worked on (or at least investigated and documented more clearly) independently from this grand plan. * Alternatively, if the configuration files of a package shall not be replaced by d-e-c then we also find a dpkg --init-blend package-name command call useful (or --native2blend or --clone-native2blend or ...). - install a copy of the original package's config files from /etc/config-folder - /etc/blend/edu/config-folder After this, configuration files provided by the package maintainer can be manipulated with cfengine (within /etc/blend/edu/config-folder, of course. Above seems to me as a reinvention of dpkg-divert. If you feel that is a sensible way forward (I don't) then it seems to me that you need not reach concensus for the whole grand plan in order to improve this piece: you can discuss that with dpkg developers directly. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#311188: Draft proposal for handling configuration file manipulations in Debian blends
into something that is not supported by the people with the use case themselves. I am pretty sure that anyone interested in blending would be excited if you invent/refine needed mechanisms for above two needs. ...if done Policy compliant - which does *not* mean weaken Policy but (understand reasons for and) obey Policy. I am less sure that anyone else will volunteer to do the work for you, if that's what you are asking. Personally I would not, because I cannot imagine such work bear fruit - i.e. become Debian Policy compliant. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Bug#311188: debian-edu-config: Messes programmatically with conffiles of other packages
Hi Marius, On 12-01-15 at 12:23pm, Marius Kotsbak wrote: Is this a legal approach to solve the configuration problem: http://debathena.mit.edu/config-packages/ In my opinion no: Essentially debathena diverts configfiles which I consider a way of messing programmatically with configfiles. For examples of real-world problems, also demonstrating the relevancy of this policy, see Common Issues section at the bottom of above referenced page. Petter Reinholdtsen [consider it legal] to mess programmatically with configfiles as it is done currently, even though it breaks upgrades. - Jonas [consider it legal]: Explained at 0:32:42 - 0:33:25 in this video: http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2011/debconf11/low/779_Debian-Edu_Current_Status_and_Development_Ideas_for_the_next_Decade.ogv -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Any experience with MRBS
On 11-10-10 at 01:29pm, RalfGesellensetter wrote: Am Freitag, 7. Oktober 2011 schrieb Jonas Smedegaard: More recently I have succeeded using calendarserver for booking purposes, and I wholeheartedly recommend doing that instead: It uses open data and protocols, can be a little tricky to setup at first, but benefit is high as it is then accessible by many standard calendaring clients. Dear Jonas, thanks for your contribution. How are you? Fine, thank you :-) Hope you are good as well! From what I read at first sight, the focus of cs is more on exchange services (or rather multi user address book and calendar). We need no ical or other exports, just the ability to book rooms. This special task is not mentioned straight ahead at http://calendarserver.org Correct, calendarserver provides a _generic_ storage for events. I favor generic event storage over custom MRBS storage, as event storage is easier accessible by more clients: You can provide *both* web views and integrate booking status directly into e.g. email clients. You asked for experiences with MRBS. My experience is that MRBS works but is (to me!) not the best booking tool. YMMV. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Any experience with MRBS
Hi Ralf,
On 11-10-07 at 07:45am, RalfGesellensetter wrote:
I wonder if anybody here has got experience with the
Meeting Room Booking System (MRBS running with LAMP)?
We plan to use this online tool to allow teachers booking
our resources (like special rooms or mobile beamers).
It should be easy to bind MRBS [1} to tjener's LDAP,
whereas just teachers should be allowed to access the
system.
AFAIK there is a fork to be run as moodle block, but
the most recent version of MRBS should do the job
pretty well.
I have used MRBS for a client in the past. But not specifically with
Skolelinux.
It is some time ago, and back then I found no better alternatives.
More recently I have succeeded using calendarserver for booking
purposes, and I wholeheartedly recommend doing that instead: It uses
open data and protocols, can be a little tricky to setup at first, but
benefit is high as it is then accessible by many standard calendaring
clients.
In my configurations calendarserver offers only CalDAV access, and I use
homemade script myicsdump (attached) to generate ical files of selected
areas, making those public with Apache2.
myicsdump uses a helper script localics2ics, available here:
http://source.jones.dk/?p=bin.git;a=blob;f=localics2ics
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
#!/bin/sh
#
# Copyright © 2011 Jonas Smedegaard d...@jones.dk
# Description: Dump selected calendarserver data as .ics files
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify
# it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by
# the Free Software Foundation; either version 2, or (at your option)
# any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but
# WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU
# General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place, Suite 330, Boston, MA
# 02111-1307 USA.
#
# Depends: calendarserver localics2ics
set -e
# TODO: make these variables overridable from configfile or ENV
calendarbasedir=/var/spool/caldavd/calendars/__uids__
# TODO: Resolve project and hostname from /etc/local-* files
project=Homebase
hostname=event.homebase.dk
icsbasedir=~/public_websites/$hostname
icsindexpage=$icsbasedir/index.html
dumpcal() {
set -e
user=$1
calendar=$2
glob=$3
shift 3 # FIXME: properly check that above variables are nonzero
calendardir=$(find $calendarbasedir -maxdepth 4 -mindepth 4 -type d
-path $glob)
# FIXME: fail if glob matched multiple calendar dirs (or use head -n 1)
icsdir=$icsbasedir/$user/$calendar/ical
icsfile=$icsdir/index.ics
icstmpfile=$icsdir/index.ics~
# skip if no events found are newer than last dump
if [ -d $icsdir ] [ -s $icsfile ]; then
newevents=$(find $calendardir -maxdepth 1 -type f -name
*.ics -cnewer $icsfile)
if [ -z $newevents ]; then
return
fi
fi
mkdir -p $icsdir
find $calendardir -maxdepth 1 -type f -name *.ics -execdir cat {} +
$icstmpfile
# Apple iCal chokes on non-UTF data that calendarserver tolerates
localics2ics $icstmpfile $icsfile
rm $icstmpfile
edited=1
}
edited=
#dumpcal fl unknown **/6f176ab7*/B35C80D8*
dumpcal kpstaff t15 **/3c77323d*/9594D5E8*
dumpcal kpstaff t16 **/3c77323d*/2E0F8694*
dumpcal kpstaff t17 **/3c77323d*/B4556602*
dumpcal kpstaff t18 **/3c77323d*/A53CEE90*
dumpcal kpstaff room **/3c77323d*/86D01505*
dumpcal kpstaff staff **/3c77323d*/calendar
dumpcal kpstaff outpost-draft **/3c77323d*/57B21073*
# rewrite front page only if calendars where updated
[ -n $edited ] || exit 0
icspaths=$(cd $icsbasedir find * -type f -name index.ics -not -empty |
sort)
cat EOF $icsindexpage
html
head
/head
body
h1Public Calendars at $project/h1
ul
EOF
for icspath in $icspaths; do
icsdir=$(dirname $icspath)
echo lia href=\$icsdir/\http://$hostname/$icsdir//a
$icsindexpage
done
cat EOF $icsindexpage
/body
/html
EOF
signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
Re: browser races
On 11-06-24 at 10:35am, Andreas Tille wrote: The link posted here[1] gives advise how to get a local installation to /opt - this does NOT sound like light at the end of the tunnel but rather like we have no clue whether we get some recent Firefox version to unstable in a foreseeable future. ...and 7(!) comments to that post, all made within one day, points to the alternative approach of using backported packages for stable, and experimental packages for testing/unstable. Seems very much like light at the end of the tunnel to me. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: browser races
On 11-06-24 at 03:02pm, Andreas Tille wrote: On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 02:21:10PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: ...and 7(!) comments to that post, all made within one day, These were written after I looked there and wrote my mail. Ah, point taken. I didn't realized it was all this new. points to the alternative approach of using backported packages for stable, and experimental packages for testing/unstable. Seems very much like light at the end of the tunnel to me. Well, not really. I was asking for testing/unstable. If you look at http://mozilla.debian.net/dists/wheezy/ there is only 3.6 and there is nothing for sid at all. So having the latest Firefox backported somehow is nice, hiding it at some other place than backports.debian.org is questionable but there might be reasons for this I can not see. But I wonder in how far this leads to the assumption that we will soonish see a recent firefox in the development tree? Instead of exploring the subdirectories of that site, try at the front page http://mozilla.debian.net/ to select unstable, Iceweasel and 4.0 and you will see that they suggest that you use experimental. Yes, they use their own backporting repository rather than backports.debian.org. I do not know specifically why the mozilla service is constructed the way it is, but generally it is my experience that collaborative backporting efforts have some benefits, while total control over a backporting effort has other benefits. I consider *any* backporting as unofficial and as contamination of a Debian system - even if repository is hosted at a debian.org domain. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: browser races
On 11-06-24 at 03:02pm, Andreas Tille wrote: On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 02:21:10PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: ...and 7(!) comments to that post, all made within one day, These were written after I looked there and wrote my mail. ...uhm, and Andreas Mundt provided same info before the blog entry was written at all _and_ before you posted to this thread. ;-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bug#626061: issues with iceweasel3 and home dirs in nfs
On 11-05-08 at 04:04pm, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Holger Levsen] sqlite doesn't work on nfs filesystems. (and Debian Edu uses home directories on nfs per default.) As far as I know, sqlite works just fine on NFS. I've used lots of sqlite databases via NFS. Do you have a source for this claim, and more information on how it fail? If it was true, gcompris and OpenOffice would not work when the home directory is on NFS, and both work just fine. This is described in http://gwd-tech.posterous.com/recovering-firefox-3-when-run-on-an-nfs-share This one describe recovery after crash, and not a generic sqlite failure on NFS. Currently I'm not sure how to solve this for Debian Edu Squeeze. What do you think? No idea. Perhaps a tool to unlock a file, or rename, copy and remove to get rid of the file system lock? Micah have a routine on his laptop to speedup Iceweasel by a) making a backup of the config data, and b) copying over the backup data before each start of iceweasel. When I visited him a few days after Debconf10 I tried cleaning up his script, and believe it should be useful for this purpose - even if not doing the speedup half of using ramdisk. Here's the script: http://source.jones.dk/?p=bin.git;a=blob;f=localbackupiceweaselprofile;hb=HEAD I got disctracted soon after leaving New York and have not yet started using the script myself. If it does not make sense, then please do involve Micah - and keep me cc'ed. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: RFS: openteacher
On Tue, Mar 01, 2011 at 03:56:52PM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, On Dienstag, 1. März 2011, Andreas Tille wrote: URL : http://launchpad.net/openteacher openteacher - Learn words in a foreign language each time I see openteacher I'm thinking I wouldn't like a very simple and limited tool being called like I am. I'm not a teacher, but I think the name is unfortunate. I suggest to aim such comment to the upstream project, or at least the RFP bugreport, rather than (only) to this list where it is of little value. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Need in Extremadura for LDAP admin interface
On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 04:40:05PM +0100, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote: El dom, 13-02-2011 a las 21:05 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard escribió: On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 04:17:44PM +0100, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote: Our servers still remain in lenny and our plans to move to squeeze (or wheeze) include the development of a lwat replacement. We need to develop it to fit our needs as we have to create accounts massively every beginning of the course using as source an external application where our ministry manages all the educational data for every citizen. So, neither gosa, cipux or lwat can fulfill our needs, and a custom development is the only solution I can see. Could you elaborate some more on your needs for LDAP admin interface? Aproximately, exactly the same as lwat provides, including its simplicity and easy of use. I'd only add the massive account creation, as I've described in #602863 Sounds like you could benefit from a scriptable interface to a select subset of the Skolelinux objects - and I suspect CipUX is an ideal tool for this, either as currently shipped with Squeeze (even if not suitable for all Skolelinux needs) or maybe with some tuning (I am sure Christian Kuelker will like to figure out if that is little or much work. In the past I was doing something similar with lwat, but there were some bad implications. As an example lwat stores in its configuration the last used uid, instead of searching it dinamically in the ldap database, so sometimes there are database corruptions if other tools are used to create accounts. Therefore: Please do describe in more detail what it is you need in Extremadura - to inspire those working on CipUX, GoSA or other LDAP tools, to help tune inot such kind of large-deployment needs (and perhaps even offer solutions concretely!). As I've commented about, lwat fulfilled the needs quite well, except by its bugs. We don't need a bloated tool, just create and modify user accounts and machine groups from the admin point of view, and changing passwords for the end user interface. No more, no less. Also, as the tool is installed in several hundred of schools, it should work out of the box, without the need of manual configuration. Thanks. I now understand clearly (sorry if you've already pointed that out numerous times in the past without me paying properly attention) that your main need here is _simplicity_. I wrongly assumed that you would need some _complexity_ in your very large setup. Thanks for spelling it out to me :-D - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Is this package relevant for Debian-edu Squeeze?: slapd-smbk5pwd
Hi, Just stumbled across the package slapd-smbk5pwd, which is also available in Debian Squeeze. Could those of you knowledgeable in Samba and Kerberos check it out? Seems potentially beneficial to use (and disable similar routines in high-level tools like GoSA and CipUX!) to have passwords in sync always, not only when using high-level admin tools. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: r72930 - trunk/src/debian-edu-config/debian
On Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 12:12:24PM +0100, Mike Gabriel wrote: Am Sonntag, 13. Februar 2011, 00:14:10 schrieb Petter Reinholdtsen: [Holger Levsen] + There were also thoughts about an install option (like gnome instead of kde) + though this aint that easy probably, as it also involves the ldap ui... An option for the preferred Window Manager (KDE, GNOME and LXDE(?)) would be great. Also for or maybe even especially for non-expert mode. [snip] PS: the above is an enciphered ,,+1 from Mike'' :-) No it isn't, actually. Above thread was about Subversion commit r72930. It only _compared_ to GNOME debconf option. I confused this just as you and (apparently) Petter, but Holger briefly(!) pointed out that misunderstadning. I suggest to use more sensible subjects when posting to this list: Not everyone here knows what those Subversion numbers stand for (I for one do not). Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Need in Extremadura for LDAP admin interface
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 04:17:44PM +0100, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote: Our servers still remain in lenny and our plans to move to squeeze (or wheeze) include the development of a lwat replacement. We need to develop it to fit our needs as we have to create accounts massively every beginning of the course using as source an external application where our ministry manages all the educational data for every citizen. So, neither gosa, cipux or lwat can fulfill our needs, and a custom development is the only solution I can see. Could you elaborate some more on your needs for LDAP admin interface? Sounds like you could benefit from a scriptable interface to a select subset of the Skolelinux objects - and I suspect CipUX is an ideal tool for this, either as currently shipped with Squeeze (even if not suitable for all Skolelinux needs) or maybe with some tuning (I am sure Christian Kuelker will like to figure out if that is little or much work. Therefore: Please do describe in more detail what it is you need in Extremadura - to inspire those working on CipUX, GoSA or other LDAP tools, to help tune inot such kind of large-deployment needs (and perhaps even offer solutions concretely!). Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: NFS4 and Kerberos
On Sat, Jan 08, 2011 at 12:31:16AM +0100, Mike Gabriel wrote: Hi Andi, On Fr 07 Jan 2011 10:41:41 CET Andreas B. Mundt wrote: Take a look at URL:http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debian-edu/trunk/src/debian-edu-config/cf/cf.homes, i.e. our exports file. If a machine want's to mount the home directories, it first has to be added to a netgroup that allows mounting the share. So if you walk into the school with your Laptop to fake an identity on the net, it will not work the first time, because your MAC address will be differerent from the machines in the netgroup you need the membership of. The next day you walk into school you will be better prepared, you modified the Laptop's MAC. Now, just plug off the machine you got the MAC from and use your Laptop instead with the nice user ID. I guess that's how current security is thought to be. This setup is not really secure. If you have access to one of the school computers (Skolelinux clients) you boot it, use ifconfig and look up its IP. Then you shut the Skolelinux client down, take over its IP (static IP, not DHCP) and then you can mount the NFS share(s) on tjener. Inspired by your recent comment, Mike, on appreciating historical reasonings, I can shed some light on the above: Historically (i.e. 2003-2004 timeframe at least[1][2]) Skolelinux thin clients was assumed to be served in a non-hostile environment. You might find interest in (re)reading that old discussion, which also touches Kerberos (although only briefly - I had and still have too little experience in that area). My interest in raising it here is not fingerpointing but potential for enlightenment. If anyone non-scandinavian are curious about the first (heated) discussion then tell me what kind of details you are interested in and I shall try to summarize in english. Kind regards, - Jonas Very very happy to follow this current effort on integrating Kerberos! [1] https://init.linpro.no/pipermail/skolelinux.no/linuxiskolen/2003-April/009981.html [2] http://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/404d0bee.5010...@jones.dk -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: italc-rlp integration into Skolelinux (was: Re: LINBO italc-rlp integration (Re: Gosa vs. CipUX))
On Sat, Jan 08, 2011 at 11:53:20AM +0100, Patrick Winnertz wrote: A new italc version 1.0.13 is waiting for a upload Great! as soon as squeeze is released. A upload before makes no sense. Squeeze has to live with the older version 1.0.9 . Releasing now to experimental makes fine sense! And helps anyone curious about the health of the package maintainance. - Jonas P.S. Please don't cc me - I am subscribed to the debian-edu@ list. -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Gosa vs. CipUX
On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 10:58:12AM +0100, Mike Gabriel wrote: However, Andreas and I (or whoever else joins in for CipUX/SL or Gosa/SL) should then heavily coordinate our work and make sure even if working on two separate systems that we benefit from each others' work AMAP. Yes! Best way to ensure most Skolelinux users benefit from local improvements is to a) use the standard Skolelinux [DIT] whenever possible, and b) when not possible then coordinate any and all changes with Skolelinux developers - and consider stepping up to get involved yourself in developing Skolelinux. Best way to ensure most Linux users benefit from local improvements is to a) use standard Debian packages whenever possible, and b) when not possible then coordinate any and all packaging development with Debian developers to ensure getting most possible of it into Debian - and consider stepping up and get involved yourself in developing Debian (no, you need not become an official Debian Developer to do that!). (just in case it is not obvious to everyone still) Kind regards, - Jonas [DIT]: LDAP Data Information Tree - which should *not* (as is common for SQL databases) be dictated by the LDAP-using technical services, but instead ideally be modelled after the administrative structure of the underlying organization, i.e. the school. -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Gosa vs. CipUX
On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 10:49:32AM +0100, Klaus Knopper wrote: Hi Petter, On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 10:40:38AM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Klaus Knopper] OK. I finally understand, partly. So, every project that wants to be integrated into Skolelinux, needs to migrate or duplicate its sources to the Skole-SVN. Nope, that is a misunderstanding. Only the code needed in the debian-edu-config package to integrate with the packages in Debian need to go into the Skolelinux SVN. Well, it was the second time that someone answered my question in a way that sounded like the main requirement was to use the Skole-SVN for packages in order to get something integrated. It convinced me, somewhat. ;-) Well, we were talking about CipUX, for which the main _remaining_ requirement indeed is to use the Skole-SVN. Reason for this is that particularly for CipUX the task of packaging officially for Debian is (mostly) done by now, largely thanks to Skolelinux Rheinland-Pfalz project contributions and encouragements! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Gosa vs. CipUX
On Fri, Jan 07, 2011 at 12:30:49AM +0100, Klaus Knopper wrote: On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 11:57:29PM +0100, Andreas B. Mundt wrote: On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 09:44:35PM +0100, Klaus Knopper wrote: Would you please explain to me, again, what the CipUX people have to do, or failed to do, in order to get their working packages integrated into Skolelinux? I think the CipUX poeple really _want_ to have their stuff integrated into Skolelinux, but apparently don't know how the magic is going to happen. [...] Don't know. Perhaps just try implementing it in SVN until someone cries out and stops you (or doesn't). That's kind of how I did it with GOsa, but you might realize, I'm also not very happy with the situation. I believe that the CipUX developers do use a version management system that is publically available, like most free software projects, and probably don't want to duplicate or completely migrate to another platform... Well, we discussed that earlier, too. I don't think using SVN at a specific place is a requirement for integration. The CipUX [developers] use SVN, and produce as end result a tarball. The Debian [packagers] use Git and produce as end result Debian packages and the Debian distribution. The VCS Andreas is referring to, however, is the one used for developing _Skolelinux_ which is neither CipUX tarballs nor CipUX packages. Someone needs to devote time and energy into integrating CipUX not only with Debian generically but with Skolelinux specifically. Hope that helps, - Jonas [developers]: Mainly Christian Kuelker, but Kurt Gramlich and a few others also have write access to the SVN and is actively working there. [packagers] Mainly me, but Xavier is actively involved too. -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Kernel Panic
On Wed, Jan 05, 2011 at 11:23:34AM +0100, Jean-Charles Skolelinux wrote: I've launched thinclients on Skole, I have splashy and as usual it crached at one moment, but then I don't have verbose and if I wait I have this message : [215.042458] Kernel panic - not syncing : Attempt to kill init ! What does it mean on a thinclient ? First off, you need to disable splashy so as to not hide the boot messages. They are crucial in figuring out what happened right before the panic. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: install less software by default (Re: Which video editor should we install by default?
On Sun, Jan 02, 2011 at 12:09:53PM +0100, Mike Gabriel wrote: Hi Jonas, dear list, On Sa 01 Jan 2011 20:03:22 CET Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Sat, Jan 01, 2011 at 07:53:19PM +0100, Mike Gabriel wrote: I have a cooperation running with a school in Kiel that uses video software (like kino) for dubbing already existing documentaries and replacing the narrators audio track (mostly English) with their own explanations of what is seen in the video. Having an education-videoeditor meta package for Skolelinux will probably quite valueable to some institutions. Interesting! I see no problem, however, in those schools installing relevant video editing tools _after_ the core installation of Skolelinux. Also, it seems to me that actual video editing is a heavy-weight approach. Have you considered instead to have them use a subtitle editor? As I am not teaching this class (only supporting) I don't know about the exact educational objective of this class. I imagine one aspect is: learning how to speak in an appropriate way for recording audio tracks. I see. Sure there are valuable learning in the full editing process - I just reacted on the specifics you described :-) As the school I talk about (Lernwerft Club of Rome Schule Kiel, www.lernwerft.de) works with block periods (,,Epochenunterricht'' in German) they have ,,more'' time for this kind of work (i.e. a complete morning as opposed to a 45 minutes lesson). Ahh - I am big fan of Epochenunterricht! I am not a teacher but was taught like that myself, and my kids are now too (or my bonus-kids as it's called here in Denmark when I didn't produce them myself). Subtitling might also be some other nice feature that could be used in schools, though. Yeah, just a suggestion :-) BTW: the Lernwerft uses a self-made Ubuntu Linux setup that I build up from scratch as I had not known enough about Skolelinux when I did the setup (and thus: not taken Skolelinux into consideration, which I start doing now for other school IT-projects around Kiel ;-) ). Quite interesting, for me! I have a special interest in decomposing Debian-based (including Ubuntu-based) systems and try recompose it as a Debian Pure Blend (i.e. fully embedded in Debian itself) so as to be reusable by Skolelinux and others. Did you hack on top of an Ubuntu LiveCD or how did you work on this? Is the sources (whatever they are) available publicly somewhere - preferrably with notes on what tweaks/cuastomizations you did and how you did it? Please let's not here on this list dive into the details of doing things differently than done by Skolelinux - perhaps contact me privately, and I might help collect and summarise the info and - if others are curious about it too - we can put it up on a wiki page. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: install less software by default (Re: Which video editor should we install by default?
On Sat, Jan 01, 2011 at 07:53:19PM +0100, Mike Gabriel wrote: Hi Holger, hi Andreas, On Mi 29 Dez 2010 18:48:59 CET Andreas Tille wrote: On Sun, Dec 26, 2010 at 12:49:18PM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote: I propose something like creating a education-videoeditor package (which recommends our identified best of breed of videoeditors) and document this well, but not install by default. Then schools wanting to do video-editing can install that package. Sounds quite reasonable. My son has finished school and has never touched any video editor. While that's no proof that this software should not be used in schools I would also vote for an install once it is really used option rather than putting it on any box per default. I have a cooperation running with a school in Kiel that uses video software (like kino) for dubbing already existing documentaries and replacing the narrators audio track (mostly English) with their own explanations of what is seen in the video. Having an education-videoeditor meta package for Skolelinux will probably quite valueable to some institutions. Interesting! I see no problem, however, in those schools installing relevant video editing tools _after_ the core installation of Skolelinux. Also, it seems to me that actual video editing is a heavy-weight approach. Have you considered instead to have them use a subtitle editor? Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: install less software by default (Re: Which video editor should we install by default?
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:09:38PM +0100, Holger Levsen wrote: Hi, On Montag, 20. Dezember 2010, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: So I'd suggest to do something else: document how to edit videos, starting with if you want/need to edit videos, run 'apt-get install kino kdenlive \ openmovieeditor pitivi' and give them a try to find the tool which suits you best. The same is probably true for some other types of applications. You seem to argue against installing any applications by default. Do I misunderstand you? Yes, you misunderstood me. I've said some other types of applications, not any applications. Of course we should pick one office suite, one webbrowser, one mail user agent, ... one basic set of apps. But outside this set of basic apps there are more types of applications, ie videoeditors, where IME there is no best one to pick. And this thread confirmed this. Why is singling out basic apps more obvious? There is no best one to pick there either. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Which video editor should we install by default?
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 01:38:51PM +0100, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote: Both use the same library to do the video manipulation (http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/mlt), I think both should be in kde edu, ...and since they use same rendering backend, including both shouldn't be a big burden on distro size. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Which video editor should we install by default?
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 02:53:47PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Hi, in my experience kdenlive and openshot are the way to go, I can't comment on pitivi since I didn't use it for a while. If you don't know openshot it's definitely worth a try. Thanks for the input. Did not know about openshot at all. The bugs reported in URL: http://bugs.debian.org/src:openshot make me worry if it works in Debian, though. Do you experience the same problems? I don't experience any of those problems. I suspect they are related to the use of debian-multimedia.org packages which are known to be problematic. All bugreports but the one regarding translations have melt and python-mlt libs installed from that unofficial archive! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Which video editor should we install by default?
On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 05:10:52PM +0100, idiotei...@gmail.com wrote: I don't experience any of the issues discussed in the bugs, and I use debian-multimedia. I use the Sid version though (1.2.2-1). Some bug reports mention Ubuntu packages, another a mlt version compiled against a non-standard python version... I used it this afternoon (Oslo time) to edit three rushes (1280x700, about 400Mo each, .mov) and stitch them together, with transitions, and I didn't experience any problem. I do have a fairly long wish-list for Openshot but no problem with it lately. Please consider post your positive experiences at those bugreports. It could help avoid scaring off other potential users as it seemed to do to Petter - and can also help remind the package maintainer to revisit them and perhaps close them if agreeing they are no longer relevant. I didn't do that as I don't currently use the app (just quickly tried to open it and it didn't crash on me right away). - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Additional tests for multimedia plugin page
Hi all, I just stumbled across this web page (in danish) about how to get access from Linux to archives and streams of DR (danish public service TV): http://leopold.dk/~martin/DanmarksRadio.html The page mentions a few additional requirements/wishes that are different from raw MIME codecs mainly used at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/BrowserMultimedia - specifically...: * Support for wind (fast-forward) * Summaries of a program must start at beginning of summary, not beginning of whole show * Ability to select quality (high, low). * Ability to switch to fullscreen * Ability to select video output mode (xv does not work with all graphics cards) * Ability to not blank screen in middle of film (DPMS off) Perhaps some here on the list find it relevant to test and update the charts at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/BrowserMultimedia to document those criteria too. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: console-kit-daemon in syslog
On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 01:51:58PM +0100, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Joakim Seeberg] any ideers? Not really, but I know ConsoleKit is used to keep track of which users are logged into the console / sitting in front of the computer, to grant access to local devices like CD, USB and audio. Do you have a full disk somewhere? It says file too large and not e.g. disk full, so even if you have plenty of space then try check if perhaps one of the logfiles is larger than 2GB. If that is the case, then please file a bugreport about it, as this issue can probably be solved with a compile flag during build. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: WiFi access point for students
On Fri, Nov 05, 2010 at 08:16:22AM +0100, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote: El jue, 04-11-2010 a las 20:04 +0100, Jonas Smedegaard escribió: On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 02:22:18PM +0100, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote: Anyway, you've forgotten the main difference between a school and a hotel/restaurant setup: the number of concurrent users. Think of a school with only 10 classrooms, 25 pupils per classroom: 260 laptops. As soon as most laptops are in the school, you will soon run out of available wireless channels, and available bandwith. Interesting point about amount of users essentially flooding the radios. This issue is of concern for the One Laptop Per Child project too, and its sister-project, Sugar, too. I recall it being discussed recently (2-4 months ago, I believe - tell me if anyone wants me to locate it more exactly) and a proposed solution was to turn *down* the power of the radio chips, so as to cover smaller areas per AP, instead of wasting radio bandwidth by overlapping too much. If I recall correctly, the proposal originates from the german Freifunk project which apparently have had success with setting up AP software to dynamically lower the radio power to the least needed depending on some usage patterns. That's very interesting, we have also thought of reduce the power of the AP and the laptops radios. A dynamic solution would be fantastic but I don't know how it can be done. What parameters could be taking to calculate the needed power? Do you have a link with more information about the possible algorithm? http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2010-August/011557.html ...and surrounding posts. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: WiFi access point for students
On Thu, Nov 04, 2010 at 02:22:18PM +0100, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote: We're currently testing this solution that covers the items you mention too, and it's 1/10 of the value of a good AP. I guess you mean the opposite: that the solution you are testing provides _same_ value while 1/10 _cost_ of a good AP :-) Really appreciate your detailed real-world experiences, José! Anyway, you've forgotten the main difference between a school and a hotel/restaurant setup: the number of concurrent users. Think of a school with only 10 classrooms, 25 pupils per classroom: 260 laptops. As soon as most laptops are in the school, you will soon run out of available wireless channels, and available bandwith. That's why only expensive AP working in 802.11n work (we haven't tested enough the hostap solution), but I can confirm you that ~100 euros AP's will not work as soon as the number of users increase. And, for sure, forget about using 802.11b/g and, if possible, use 802.11n with dual band support and work in the 5GHz band, where you can get enough real available channels. Interesting point about amount of users essentially flooding the radios. This issue is of concern for the One Laptop Per Child project too, and its sister-project, Sugar, too. I recall it being discussed recently (2-4 months ago, I believe - tell me if anyone wants me to locate it more exactly) and a proposed solution was to turn *down* the power of the radio chips, so as to cover smaller areas per AP, instead of wasting radio bandwidth by overlapping too much. If I recall correctly, the proposal originates from the german Freifunk project which apparently have had success with setting up AP software to dynamically lower the radio power to the least needed depending on some usage patterns. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: should we really avoid the 686 kernel image?
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 05:56:16PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: On Samstag, 30. Oktober 2010, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Well, LTSP failed to install from DVD when I updated the list of kernels to included on the DVD. Thats a very different statement then saying LTSP doesnt work with 686. Word games again? Petter did not write LTSP doesnt work with 686, but We have to have the 486 kernel to get LTSP working, for which his later message quoted at top of this mail is an elaboration, not a very different statement. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: svn statistics
On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 06:20:25PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: following Gregor Herrmanns statistics of the svn usage of the perl packaging group, I used his script to generate stats about Debian Edu: Interesting. Do you have a reference to those scripts you are referring to? Perhaps these stats by Xavier is interesting too (especially when he finishes refining and makes available his scripts as he mentioned at the end of the thread is intended within a month): http://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/20101021150702.ga10...@master - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 02:07:48PM +0200, Klaus Knopper wrote: On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 02:02:26PM +0200, Philipp Huebner wrote: so the conclusion is the same simple one as stated much earlier in this thread: so far nobody has shown up who is willing (and able) to do the integration work (and the maintenance) to get CipUX into Skolelinux. It's not that CipUX is not wanted, but without manpower to get the work done there is simply no chance. [snip] Good summary. I think we got now to the core of the problem, just no solution yet. Well, I'll continue to search for packagers, and meanwhile we will continue to maintain our own repository which may not be compliant, but legitimate. ;-) Phillip did *not* mention packaging, but integration with Skolelinux and ongoing maintainance of that integration. In other words, it is a Skolelinux-specific task, not a general Debian task. Even if you consider CATweasel a crucial and mandatory part of your CipUX stack, the parts _below_ CATweasel, the ones in the CipUX project, needs to be integrated first - as was pointed out by others in this thread. So yes, CATweasel is not in Debian, so needs packaging, but no, CipUX itself has a packaging team already (me and Xavier, currently). Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 02:26:31PM +0200, Klaus Knopper wrote: I already think beyond the projects official end (I see no way to get anything into Skolelinux earlier), Why not? Are you too busy while project leader and do not consider the integration task of priority now? Or do you not expect help from Skolelinux, Debian or CipUX now, e.g. due to the freeze of Squeeze? Or something else? Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 03:10:57PM +0200, Klaus Knopper wrote: Hi Jonas, On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 02:53:34PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 02:26:31PM +0200, Klaus Knopper wrote: I already think beyond the projects official end (I see no way to get anything into Skolelinux earlier), Why not? Are you too busy while project leader and do not consider the integration task of priority now? Or do you not expect help from Skolelinux, Debian or CipUX now, e.g. due to the freeze of Squeeze? Or something else? It's a simple calculation of workload and manpower vs. time and deadlines. Priority 1 is indeed, as mentioned before, that schools in RLP get their installations ready in time. This includes bugfixes and finding workarounds for difficult scenarios and regulations that I can explain in a different thread if someone is interested. Having our new stuff in Skolelinux is also a priority, but not top 1. We need to make sure someone else can take over development later, when our funding ends, and this goal would be reached easier if our addons are already official part of Debian and Skolelinux. I asked for help from Skolelinux but we can't just sit there and wait for it to happen. I understand that Skolelinux suffers from the same problem as most projects that grow quick but have a too small developer and maintainer base. The technical remarks that came on this list were very helpful for me, yet they don't solve the problem of insufficient resources. Hope this answers your question, though it is not a simple Yes or No. My question was not binary, and I am happy for your elaborated response! (and for your others responses too - thanks!) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 02:45:46PM +0200, Klaus Knopper wrote: On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 02:19:40PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: Jonas has packages CipUX (most parts) for Debian, they are in unstable, so they are actually more squeeze than Lenny and therefore not working too well with the current stable Skolelinux version. But he also creates packages for Skolelinux/Lenny occasionally, just probably not following the precedure Jürgen and Philipp mentioned. Jonas, are you there and can comment on this? I do official packages for Debian, which thereby automatically becomes available in future official releases of Skolelinux too. I do unofficial packages targeted already released Debian too, which do not automatically becomes available for install as part of current or future Skolelinux releases. In principle, with some manual work from some volunteer, my unofficial packages could be made available in Skolelinux releases. I believe none of above contradicts with Skolelinux contribution documentation, although some of it might not be clearly documented. I believe packaging work is not the main issue in this thread, however: Far more than packaging, CipUX needs *integration* with Skolelinux! BTW, now that I have your attention: do you know why cipux-cat-weasel hasnt been packaged yet? Actually, we have an unofficial package on rp.skolelinux.de, but since it build-depends on stuff not packaged in Debian yet, it's complicated. Also, there are still a few problems with preconfiguration so that it starts out-of-the-box on Skolelinux, which need to be adressed. Martin wrote about that. Want to help? :-) Great that the RLP project has packaged CATweasel for their own use. I am pretty sure, however, that Holger did not simply mean packaged but more specifically packaged officially for Debian, since he just pointed out how the proper way for code to reach Skolelinux is via Debian. Now, you are both talking about *packaging* here. What [CipUX] lack the most is not packaging, however, but *integration* with Skolelinux. Skolelinux integration is done mostly in the packages debian-edu-config and debian-edu-install. Someone needs to volunteer to help work on those packages to refine the setup of official Debian CipUX packages, to work with Skolelinux. - Jonas [CipUX]: Although CATweasel is considered crucial to the RLP project, the CipUX project itself does not: CipUX CAT Web exists too. Skolelinux prioritizes the use of only official Debian packages, which affects the judgement of those two competitive CipUX frontends. -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 09:55:02PM +0200, Philipp Huebner wrote: Hi, On 23/10/10 17:14, Holger Levsen wrote: who in skolelinux is activly working on integrating cipux? Noone. Which makes me wonder why the people using it in Rheinland-Pfalz are not doing this. Or why you dont do it. Care to explain? IMHO this is a very good question which I would also love to see answered. +1 - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 06:08:01PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Sérgio Saraiva] Is it possible to show a table with positive and negative aspects of administration tools? | lwat | broken in edu/squeeze | used to do what we wanted | | | missing people | | | cipux | missing in edu/squeeze | unknown if it fits us | | | missing people | | | gosa | missing some features | partly working in edu/squeeze | | || got people| It should not be unknown that CipUX is in production use on Skolelinux-based systems in Rheinland-Pfalz. It should be trivial to include CipUX, as it is already officially in Debian. So apparently people is the main reason for favoring GoSA over CipUX. ...and with people I mean people specifically devoted to Skolelinux. Andreas Mundt has been _very_ active on GoSA (and thanks for that!) but now starts as a teacher and do not expect himself to be able to continue contributing at same pace. Who else in Skolelinux besides Andreas is actively working on GoSA? - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 02:27:32PM +0200, Benoit Mortier wrote: The idea behind using GOsa² is that the software is mature, supported and have people willing to help debian Edu to use it :) Yes. That is the idea behind CipUX too. Or do you mean to say that all of those favor GOsa² over CipUX? Who else in Skolelinux besides Andreas is actively working on GoSA? i offered my help, and already started at looking at and ldap tree from debian-edu to see how it fit onto GOsa² and what is missing. Great! - Jonas P.S. Sorry for consistently misspelling GOsa² previously - I have no idea where I got that from. -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 03:03:30PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: On Samstag, 23. Oktober 2010, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: It should not be unknown that CipUX is in production use on Skolelinux-based systems in Rheinland-Pfalz. yes, but last I heard it wasnt installable from packages. Interesting. Would be nice if that could be filed as a bugreport. Yes, I did notice that you only *heard* about this, so do not want you to file a bugreport yourself but wish that you would ask those you heard it from to maybe do so: bugfixing is difficult based only on a rumor - as is decision making. It should be trivial to include CipUX, as it is already officially in Debian. cipux is, but afaik cipux is not the UI. When I say that it is in Debian, I mean it. I found it irrelevant to go into detail in this thread, but can do so if you insist. Do you still remember what was the main message of my email, or did you succeed by now in distracting the conversation? which cipux-UI are available in squeeze today? Both CLI tools and the web-based UI provided as part of CipUX itself, called CipUX CAT Web, are packaged officially for Debian. An alternative web-based UI, called CATweasel, which funded and promoted by the Skolelinux Rheinland-Pfalz project, is still in development and not packaged officially. Who else in Skolelinux besides Andreas is actively working on GoSA? who in skolelinux is activly working on integrating cipux? Noone. Now would you please care to answer my question? - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 05:14:50PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: cipux is, but afaik cipux is not the UI. When I say that it is in Debian, I mean it. I'm sorry, but in 20101023110727.gl5...@jones.dk you said Cipux is used in Rheinland-Pfalz and that it should be trivial to include it into Edu as its already in Debian and in the mail I'm now answering to you say that some important part of Cipux (called CatWeasel, used in Rheinland-Pfalz) is not packaged yet. I never claimed CATweasel to be an important part of CipUX. I did, however, describe it as an alternative. No, I do not mean an alternative to a library. No, I do not mean an alternative to a CLI (command-line interface). Halleluja, what a fruitful discussion. Why the heck don't you just answer my short simple question?!?!?!? - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu
On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 06:32:39PM +0200, Andreas B. Mundt wrote: On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 01:07:27PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Andreas Mundt has been _very_ active on GoSA (and thanks for that!) but now starts as a teacher and do not expect himself to be able to continue contributing at same pace. Regardless of my new job it's not (and probably has and will never be the case) that we have too many developers. That's the main reason why I always favor a standard setup, where the work left for the project is the configuration of available software packages and there's no need to code at all. +1 - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: discover-data_2.2010.10.14_i386.changes is NEW
Hi Petter and others, On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 12:14:03PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: On Sonntag, 17. Oktober 2010, Holger Levsen wrote: would you mind reuploading the package, at least with reverting the debhelper compatibility change? probably also the python depends change... ? Why would you want to change this? I have no problem with that, but it is completely useless to change it back. The debhelper change lift the built compat level from a obsolete version to a supported version without changing the binary package at all (I ran debdiff to verify this), and adding the python suggests keep lintian happy without changing the package behavoiur. Both changes were done to get rid of lintian warnings, and dropping them will reintroduce the lintian warnings without changing the binary package in any way that affect installations (the only binary package difference is 'Suggests: python' in the control file). Related to this, although not directly (discover-data does not use CDBS): Beware that testing binary results on sid may not reveal all possible problems. In particular, bumping debhelper compat level from 6 to 7 for packages using CDBS may show no difference when building on sid and still fail in certain situations if rebuilding on Lenny, due to CDBS only fully supporting debhelper compat level 7 since 0.4.85. Release managers are known to treat FTBFS-on-stable bugreports as non-RC, and you may similarly not care about backporting, but Debian Policy is suite-agnostic in its requiring correct package dependencies. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Wiki system with LDAP auth for Debian Edu/Lenny?
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 11:41:21AM +0200, RalfGesellensetter wrote: in order to introduce and use a local Wiki system in school, I am looking for a lean and easy configurable software with LDAP connection. In former times, I managed to bind moodle to our LDAP, but this time, a simple wiki system is enough. apt-cache search wiki ldap points me to mediawiki (depends on php5). MoinMoin supports LDAP backend too, and is not written in PHP (a plus for some, including me). Some wikis, including my favorite - Ikiwiki - supports httpauth, which can be combined with an Apache backend module authenticating against LDAP. Benefit of that approach is that later you can switch to e.g. Kerberos without needing to switch wiki. One thing is reinstalling your services when a new Skolelinux comes out, another is rewriting/converting all your documents! - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Switch to dynamic LDAP configuration?
On Sat, Sep 11, 2010 at 04:15:37PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Jonas Smedegaard] In this case I therefore agree (and suspect there no real choice) that Debian-Edu/Skolelinux should switch to use the new configuration style for Squeeze. Yeah, we have no choice. For now I added code during installation to run slapd -f slapd.conf -F slapd.d to migrate the configuration from the old to the new format to get the installation working. I suspect a better way is to do this in the package instead. Update: With slapd 2.4.23-5 just entered unstable and apparently targeted Squeeze, there will be choice. It might still make sense for Debian-Edu/Skolelinux to switch to the new configuration style for Squeeze, but old style will be supported too. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Switch to dynamic LDAP configuration?
On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 03:59:49PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 09:30:16PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Since OpenLDAP 2.3, it has been possible to store the LDAP configuration (as in schemas, ACLs etc) in the LDAP database itself, allowing it be changed without restarting the LDAP database. The setup is documented in URL: http://www.zarafa.com/wiki/index.php/OpenLdap:_Switch_to_dynamic_config_backend_(cn%3Dconfig) . Should we switch to this kind of setup in Debian Edu too? Debian slapd package apparently use above configuration style since 2.4.23-3. I recommend to generally only use configuration styles actively supported by Debian packaging (no matter if other styles are supported upstream). In this case I therefore agree (and suspect there no real choice) that Debian-Edu/Skolelinux should switch to use the new configuration style for Squeeze. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Current errors detected for Main-server+Thin-Client-Server in Debian Edu/Squeeze
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 10:56:01PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Jonas Smedegaard] I suspect above is #588234 or #591509, both fixed in unstable today. Right. And no progress getting the fix into testing, it seem. CUPS need new maintainers, according to #532097, so I guess that is part of the reason. We might reduce the severity of this by switching CUPS to use Kerberos for authentication, but I do not really know if that will help or not. :) Just checked with #debian-release, and these CUPS issues do not seem to be on the radar of the release team. Thanks for raising awarenes towards the printing maintainance issue. (I have my hands full with ghostscript, so hope others will help out!) Most likely due to still not fully completed jackd - jack1/jack2 transition. Yes, and the transition seem to be complete as jackd now is installable during installation. :) Yes, JACK transition has completed now. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Ping: Re: Cooperation between DebianEdu/Skolelinux and EdUbuntu ?
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 08:07:27AM +0200, Martin Oehler wrote: Hello Jonas, On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 05:30:19PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: It seems to me that none of [some software developed for Skolelinux-RLP not yet part of Debian as required by RLP contracts] is easier solved by moving away from Debian and closer to Ubuntu. I didn't suggest moving away from Debian or Skolelinux. Fine. Then we (apparently) perfectly agree. Ubuntu (+flavor) is a good, solid distribution, why not work with these people if there is a packager ready for the job? Sure. We all agree that collaboration is good. I warmly welcome an Ubuntu developer helping package Skolelinux-RLP stuff to be usable for all Debian derivatives and Debian itself. Correct, but why should we care where her or he does his main open source work? I do not care where individuals do individual work. I care here because topic of the thread is *collaborative* work. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Current errors detected for Main-server+Thin-Client-Server in Debian Edu/Squeeze
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:49:09AM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: Here are the current errors detected by the self testing then installing Main-server + Thin-Client-Server via PXE: error: ./cups: URL 'https://www:631/' is not working. error: ./cups: URL 'https://localhost:631/' is not working. I suspect above is #588234 or #591509, both fixed in unstable today. error: ./taskpkgs: Package jackd in task education-workstation is not installed! error: ./taskpkgs: Package jackd in task education-thin-client-server is not installed! Most likely due to still not fully completed jackd - jack1/jack2 transition. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Idea for enabling LDAP SSL certificate checking
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:27:01AM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [John S. Skogtvedt] In other words, if the certificate Common Name is ldap, one has to connect to the server using the hostname ldap. I know that that worked in lenny at least, I'll be very surprised if it doesn't in squeeze (but at least in lenny ldapvi had a bug making it the only program not to accept the certificate). I suspect something changed between Lenny and Squeeze, as certificate checking seem to have become stricter. Perhaps what changed was simply host resolving - to more aggressively resolve FQDN instead of only hostname. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Ping: Re: Cooperation between DebianEdu/Skolelinux and EdUbuntu ?
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:17:49AM +0200, Klaus Knopper wrote: On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 08:00:37PM -0400, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:01:07PM +0200, Rubén Romero y Cordero wrote: Business as usual never was as things are always in constant change: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianEdubuntu Additions/comments? I consider Ubuntu a user of Debian. I consider Skolelinux a user of Debian too, but one that is aiming (and quite close to becoming) an integral part of Debian itself - what we in Debian call a Debian Pure Blend. Sorry, I don't see that happen yet in the near future (Skolelinux aiming to be a pure Debian blend) considering all the changes and extras discussed on this list recently, including severe changes of LDAP schemata. The issues you raise affects the *quality* of Skolelinux/Debian-edu as a Pure Debian Blend, but not the speed of getting there. IMO it is in the spirit of Debian Policy to govern integrity of installed systems. Unfortunately some areas, databases like LDAP in particular, are not explicitly covered by Debian Policy. Skolelinux/Debian-edu heavily uses LDAP with the unfortunate result of a Pure yet unreliably upgradeable Blend :-( In other words, I believe you are wrong here: Skolelinux/Debian-edu *is* close to becoming a Pure Debian Blend, even if not (yet) an ideal one. As such I see no point in collaborative packaging work being conducted anywhere else than by simply packaging for Debian and then consuming from there. I DO see a point in cooperating between distributions. Great. We agree here :-) Let me clarify: As you hint yourself (needing to emphasize _which_ part you comment on further up) my earlier statement contained several parts: a) multiple distributions are derivatives from Debian b) only some derivatives actively seek full integration with Debian c) Skolelinux/Debian-edu is close to being fully integrated with Debian d) all of a), b) and c) are reasons to collaborate close to Debian It seems we agree on a) and b), but not on c) (as discussed further above) and not on d) (as discussed below). A vast amount of patches and fixes in genuine Debian packages comes from the Ubuntu community nowadays, btw. In fact, I consider Ubuntu one of the largest contributors to the Debian base, like it or not. I like it a lot when users of Debian rise from mere consumers to also become contributors. Both end-users and derivative distributions. Skolelinux has consistently contributed back throughout their lifetime, Ubuntu does it a lot (although less consistently), and Skolelinux-RLP which you are the leader of does it too. All those contributions are great for the ecosystem of Free Software, and particularly for the smaller ecosystem of Debian-based systems! Let's coordinate all such contributions at Alioth, rather than at some other platform further away from Debian. Ubuntu has its own, well-working framework for schools. That may be true (although I have only heard rumors of such - only ever actually seen a smoothly running _desktop_ environment similar to plain Ubuntu). If Ubuntu has software solutions which they have not contributed back to Debian, it either means that your argument of vast amount of patches and fixes contributed by Ubuntu do not include school-related parts, or that Debian for some reason refused to adopt such changes given to them. Where in Debian BTS are the bugreports regarding improvements towards well-working framework for schools filed by Ubuntu developers? If your interest in Ubuntu is not (only) working code, but (also) development services, then there are freeness concerns in using those rather than the ones at Alioth: Canonical offers a range of services inclusing translation and bug tracking, but those are not in the same spirit of freedoms as those at Alioth. You may not care but other derivatives (and Debian itself) might, so the net result is the same: When using Ubuntu as development platform, the amount of possible contributors goes down due to political, technical and practical issues with not-entirely-free services offered there. Therefore: Let's use Alioth. I would like to adopt parts of it, in code or at least ideas, We all want to reuse great code :-) In return, I think that Ubuntu could make use of our extensions LINBO and italc-RLP; the alternative blind-friendly ADRIANE audio desktop, CATWeasel and CipUX set aside for a moment. Unfortunately, we have been unable to find a DM willing to create official Debian-Packages from our installation sources, so we are still making our own. Maybe there are volunteers from Ubuntu? Would be great to have some Ubuntu guys help make the RLP code more generally usable. Especially if then contributed to Debian (i.e. not only to Ubuntu) so that all derivatives and Debian itself may benefit from those contributions. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt
Re: Ping: Re: Cooperation between DebianEdu/Skolelinux and EdUbuntu ?
On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 02:53:12PM +0200, Martin Oehler wrote: The list of unfinished or even not yet started *official* packaging: - CipUX. The current state with a long post installation howto is hard to handle. It's even worse if you generate software that depends on a CipUX with at least a working base configuration. No flame at Jonas here, he does a good job - it's simply a complex task. - LINBO. Really hard to package as it seems with having a custom kernel and using Qt Embedded. - italc-rlp. Yes, it depends on CipUX (we have the same problem with Catweasel when it comes to packaging) otherwise it's mere patch that adds some menu items, matching functions and removes some buttons that didn't work in our tests. Keeps coding style and dependencies and does only add, not change functionality (I'm rewriting it as a patch atm). I can't see the problem, honestly. But let's hear about the policy violations. - ADRIANE - I would say about the same difficulty level as LINBO. - Catweasel. It depends on CipUX rpcd and waits for a brave packager too. It seems to me that none of the above is easier solved by moving away from Debian and closer to Ubuntu. Some parts is already worked on, others it is clear what work is needed but needs a volunteer to do it, while some is inherently difficult to do in a Debian-based framework and thus needs *both* a competent volunteer and structural changes to get integrated with a Debian- (or Ubuntu-)based distribution. Ubuntu (+flavor) is a good, solid distribution, why not work with these people if there is a packager ready for the job? Sure. We all agree that collaboration is good. I warmly welcome an Ubuntu developer helping package Skolelinux-RLP stuff to be usable for all Debian derivatives and Debian itself. I have no interest in (but will simply ignore, not try to obstruct) Ubuntu developers packaging Skolelinux-RLP stuff for Ubuntu and its derivatives. I also have no interest in working from an Ubuntu/Canonical development platform, due to the issues I tried to cover in a separate email. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Ping: Re: Cooperation between DebianEdu/Skolelinux and EdUbuntu ?
On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 02:01:07PM +0200, Rubén Romero y Cordero wrote: Hi, Business as usual never was as things are always in constant change: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebianEdubuntu Additions/comments? I consider Ubuntu a user of Debian. I consider Skolelinux a user of Debian too, but one that is aiming (and quite close to becoming) an integral part of Debian itself - what we in Debian call a Debian Pure Blend. As such I see no point in collaborative packaging work being conducted anywhere else than by simply packaging for Debian and then consuming from there. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Current errors detected for Main-server+Workstation in Debian Edu/Squeeze
On Thu, Aug 05, 2010 at 10:06:43PM +0200, Jürgen Leibner wrote: On Thursday 05 August 2010 21:45 Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Jürgen Leibner] After installing with the graphical installer 'mainserver+workstation' from cd-squeeze-test-dvd/debian-edu-amd64-i386-DVD-1.iso on amd64 in virtualbox the dialog on first login gives(edited by hand to have every error: on one line): Great test report. Thanks. I forgot to report that while installation the wellknown question for the danish wordlist was asked ;-) What problem is that? I happen to be the maintainer of the danish wordlist, so if it is an issue with that package *and* you are too lazy to file a proper bugrepoert, then here's your chance to short-circuit: Please elaborate. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu (Was: Is LWAT completely broken in Squeeze?)
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 07:55:44PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: For Cipux, no developer so far seem willing to spend the time to get it working out of the box with Debian Edu. Working packages might be in squeeze, but it is unknown as no-one has tried to get them working with Debian Edu/Squeeze as far as I know. I do not know what schemas are used, nor if it is compatible with the current LDAP structure. True, all of it. If Cipux is to become an alternative for Squeeze, someone need to spend time to get it working out of the box with Debian Edu/Squeeze, and allow us to test it to see how it compare to Gosa. Great opportunity for the Rheinland-Pfalz project to invest some of the remaining resources, I guess. ...or alternatively for some of the others actively using CipUX together with Skolelinux to come out of the bushes and share with this list their judgement of current status. Kind regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: More on the future LDAP admin gui in Debian Edu (Was: Is LWAT completely broken in Squeeze?)
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 08:46:21PM +0100, Berni Elbourn wrote: On 30/07/10 20:19, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 07:55:44PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: For Cipux, no developer so far seem willing to spend the time to get it working out of the box with Debian Edu. Working packages might be in squeeze, but it is unknown as no-one has tried to get them working with Debian Edu/Squeeze as far as I know. I do not know what schemas are used, nor if it is compatible with the current LDAP structure. True, all of it. If Cipux is to become an alternative for Squeeze, someone need to spend time to get it working out of the box with Debian Edu/Squeeze, and allow us to test it to see how it compare to Gosa. Great opportunity for the Rheinland-Pfalz project to invest some of the remaining resources, I guess. ...or alternatively for some of the others actively using CipUX together with Skolelinux to come out of the bushes and share with this list their judgement of current status. Is there something in webmins ldap add-ons that could be re-used? If you mean if webmin stuff is relevant to reuse for CipUX, then no: Webmin related to an ancient abandoned branch of CipUX only - current CipUX 3.4.x.x uses its own framework called CAT, with two actual implementations availabl, CAT::Web and CATWeasel. CipUX is mature, and is reported working well with Skolelinux in Germany. What Petter writes above, and that I fully agree with, is *not* that CipUX is broken, but that *this* list have received no reports of succesful tests using CipUX with Skolelinux currently in development. Klaus, Christian, Kurt and others supposedly subscribed to this list: now is the time to tell the (Skolelinux) world how wonderful CipUX is! (...or file bugreports, so that I can improve the packaging!) :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please suggest minimal LDAP admin GUI
On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 09:55:18AM +0200, Andreas B. Mundt wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 02:40:17PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: Technically, I will most likely code this in Perl as that is what I am capable of and find trustworthy. Currently I am considering to use either Gtk2::Ex::FormFactory or Wx::Perl::Dialog, and use an MVC code structure which can hopefully later be extened to a refactoring of the existing web interface CipUX::CAT::Web. Comments welcome, of course :-) Two years ago I wrote a python program to manage marks and credits of pupils at school. I used glade for the GUI which I experienced as a nice tool to design/draft a GUI pretty fast and 'connect' it to the code by simple means. Thanks for the input. I deliberately do not want to use Glade or its successor for GTK (apparently not yet in Debian), GtkBuilder, directly as that seems to then require too much hand-holding the layout across widgets. I am no expert in this area, just found above mentioned tools apparently to some extend wrap what is done by hand using Glade. Thanks for the input, anyway. - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: LDAP GUI roadmap proposal
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 08:46:02PM +0200, Andreas B. Mundt wrote: On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 02:05:19PM +0200, Philipp Huebner wrote: I think it would be the best thing to decide on either tool soon, and than work on getting that fully implemented. Neither one seems to be perfect (yet?), but with limited manpower we should focus on one tool, not several. That's absolutely right. We currently have 4 attempts running to solve the issue: CipUX, GOsa, and now Jonas' tool. (The fourth one is the sum of all ideas floating around but never get realized plus the time spent trying to reanimate LWAT). For sure every attempt has its pros and cons, some have been discussed here and others not. Depending on how you count all of CipUX, CAT-Web, CATWeasel and my planned future work are either part of the same single tool, or there are way more than the 4 tools you list above: CipUX is a *framework*, with multiple front-ends: * command-line interfaces (several, for different abstraction layers) * XML-RPC interface * Web interfaces (several, on top of the XML-RPC) * GTK/Qt/whatever GUI tool (none yet, just ideas by me) What Skolelinux should decide on, in my opinion, is not that much the tool but the data model. Ideally, Skolelinux should design its data model (i.e. the LDAP DIT) based on functional needs, not based on the admin tool used. Both GOsa and CipUX should be flexible enough to adapt to a data model chosen by Skolelinux - especially when built using common standard elements, as Andreas and Petter is working hard on doing. In reality it is faster to design the data model based on the defaults of the data admin tool, but don't let that deceive you: it is still the data model you are really deciding on, if aiming for a single single tool. Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please suggest minimal LDAP admin GUI
On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 12:29:09PM +0200, Petter Reinholdtsen wrote: [Jonas Smedegaard] Please someone propose what a simple LDAP admin GUI could contain. I am not sure, but suspect the feature set of lwat is a good list. Anyone got a complete list for what lwat could do? I know it could - create users usable on unix and windows - generate passwords - single user or from a list (CSV?) - change user info (names, home directories, passwords) - allow users to change their own passwords - create file groups - maintain file groups (move users in and out of groups) - update DNS and DHCP information for a computer in LDAP - create computer netgroups and maintain them (move computers in and out of groups) - maintain automount maps in LDAP Anything more? Please, others, throw in your comments on this! The most important was not the feature set, but the simplicity of the GUI, thought. I believe I understood that from your original post. Thing is, CipUX offers an XML-RPC interface, and I am considering writing a desktop application (i.e. not a web app!) and it would then help tremendously to know which features was most urgently needed to implement. Technically, I will most likely code this in Perl as that is what I am capable of and find trustworthy. Currently I am considering to use either Gtk2::Ex::FormFactory or Wx::Perl::Dialog, and use an MVC code structure which can hopefully later be extened to a refactoring of the existing web interface CipUX::CAT::Web. Comments welcome, of course :-) Happy hacking, Thanks :-) - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Please suggest minimal LDAP admin GUI
Hi Jürgen - and others, On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 04:43:03PM +0200, Jürgen Leibner wrote: On Sat, Jul 24, 2010 at 02:40:17PM +0200, Jonas Smedegaard wrote: I am considering writing a desktop application (i.e. not a web app!) [for CipUX] and it would then help tremendously to know which features was most urgently needed to implement. For me that is a kind of wasted time, because I cannot see any need for our project this time in such an application. Good point. What I see is and please correct me if I'm wrong, that there has been done a lot of work by Andreas to get gosa in place for usage. Why not helping him to get a working solution. I actively do my best to avoid PHP. So personally GOsa is of no interest. But that's just me. I certainly encourage those with PHP skills and interests to help out making GOsa work best possible. Or perhaps try update and maintain LWAT a little longer, so that Skolelinux is less in a hurry to switch such central part as the LDAP admin tool. I would prefer if Skolelinux could transition more slowly with LWAT still available as fully working backup tool, over a hard switch which currently seems to be needed. Or in your special case, why not make cipux alternativly usable like gosa for our project, to have a choise while installing, which of them one want to use. If I understand you (and the work done with GOsa) correctly, this is indeed what have been going on the last year or two. CipUX is officially in Debian Sid and Squeeze. Anyone interested in trying out CipUX is quite welcome helping us test the quality of these packages. More info at http://wiki.cipux.org/development (hmm - seems the mailinglist web interface is down currently - I guess you could simply start post to the list if you are interested in subscribing to it: cipux-de...@cipux.org ). The reason I waste time on yet another tool is it is a) really not starting from scratch but just another frontend to the existing CipUX framework, b) the packaging of both CipUX framework and CipUX CAT-Web Web UI should soon be finished, and c) coding a small Perl app is an excercise I need anyway for another project of mine (sms administration of sms messages for a theater group - for whom both simple GUI, flexible access and high reliability is crucial). Thanks for your input. They are appreciated, even though I disagree with them. :-) Regards, - Jonas -- * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist Internet-arkitekt * Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/ [x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private signature.asc Description: Digital signature
