Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Jeremy Hankins wrote: Jakob Bohm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes (quoting the Sun RPC license): but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. I interpret that to mean that once the RPC code has been included in a larger program or product (say glibc), then the further use,distribution etc. of that program is only restricted by the license applied thereto by that user (in this case the LGPL applied thereto by the FSF). If so, it is now possible to remove all the non-Sun-RPC bits from glibc and distribute it, modify it, whatever, just as if it were under the GPL. No. GPL does not allow you to do that. It only allow (and require) you to copy and distribute under GPL any work, based on the original GPL-ed work. Sun RPC is not work, based on GLIBC, regardless of source you receive it from. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
IANAL, TINLA, IANADD But here is my blow by blow interpretation, which makes glibc DFSG free. On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is included on all tape media ^^ This is a standard clause, which *does* refer to external, human readable text on the media containing the work in question. /me thinks that at some point in time, some legal jurisdiction had (or still has) a legal theory that the license or copyright does not stick, unless it is clearly visible to whomever picks up the tape or CD and considers putting it in the machine. However I think it is commonly acceptable practice to just include a summary label like: Debian is Copyright (C) 19xx,2003 by many contributors, see the /usr/share/doc/*/copyright files inside for details and restrictions. (Where 19xx is the oldest copyright year of any included files with non-expired copyright). and as a part of the software program in whole or part. Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, ^^ That usually means you don't have to pay Sun for the privilege, good! but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. I interpret that to mean that once the RPC code has been included in a larger program or product (say glibc), then the further use,distribution etc. of that program is only restricted by the license applied thereto by that user (in this case the LGPL applied thereto by the FSF). Thus this only sticks if you seperate Sun RPC from glibc without putting it in another program (as you do if linking statically to glibc and only Sun RPC happens to be extracted from the .a file). Thus for the RPC in glibc this restriction only applies if you manually extract Sun RPC from glibc and then try to distribute that all alone. The right to do that is NOT required by DFSG 1. SUN RPC IS PROVIDED AS IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF DESIGN, MERCHANTIBILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE OR TRADE PRACTICE. Sun RPC is provided with no support and without any obligation on the part of Sun Microsystems, Inc. to assist in its use, correction, modification or enhancement. SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WITH RESPECT TO THE INFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHTS, TRADE SECRETS OR ANY PATENTS BY SUN RPC OR ANY PART THEREOF. In no event will Sun Microsystems, Inc. be liable for any lost revenue or profits or other special, indirect and consequential damages, even if Sun has been advised of the possibility of such damages. Just the usual warranty disclaimer. -- This message is hastily written, please ignore any unpleasant wordings, do not consider it a binding commitment, even if its phrasing may indicate so. Its contents may be deliberately or accidentally untrue. Trademarks and other things belong to their owners, if any. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
reopen 181493 ! thanks For the debian-legal people, this is the controversy at hand: Sun RPC code is included as part of glibc. The license, which is included below, prohibits distribution of the original code under its original terms, which would make the license non-free. Including non-free code into otherwise free code does not make the code free, IMO. Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is included on all tape media and as a part of the software program in whole or part. Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. SUN RPC IS PROVIDED AS IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF DESIGN, MERCHANTIBILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE OR TRADE PRACTICE. Sun RPC is provided with no support and without any obligation on the part of Sun Microsystems, Inc. to assist in its use, correction, modification or enhancement. SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WITH RESPECT TO THE INFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHTS, TRADE SECRETS OR ANY PATENTS BY SUN RPC OR ANY PART THEREOF. In no event will Sun Microsystems, Inc. be liable for any lost revenue or profits or other special, indirect and consequential damages, even if Sun has been advised of the possibility of such damages. I'd like an opinion. M-F-T is set appropriately. On Sun, Aug 17, 2003 at 08:48:04PM -0500, Debian Bug Tracking System wrote: This is an automatic notification regarding your Bug report #181493: glibc: Sun RPC code is non-free, which was filed against the glibc package. It has been closed by one of the developers, namely GOTO Masanori [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Their explanation is attached below. If this explanation is unsatisfactory and you have not received a better one in a separate message then please contact the developer, by replying to this email. This explanation is unsatisfactory. I think that the Sun RPC code is non-free, and I want an opinion from debian-legal. At Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:28:48 +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: This bug should be closed. OK, I've closed now. Regards, -- gotom -- Brian M. Carlson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0x560553e7 Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all. --Douglas Adams pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is included on all tape media and as a part of the software ^^ That seems worse than the advertising clause. program in whole or part. Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. Isn't this whole thing incompatible with the (L)GPL anyway? The code in question has been highly modified and integrated into the glibc source tree, presumably with the modifications under the LGPL, so the library exclusion clause in the LGPL does not apply. Which brings us back to clause 10 of the LGPL (6 of the GPL), which prohibits additional restrictions. -- .''`. ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield : :' : http://www.debian.org/ | `. `' | `- -- | pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is included on all tape media and as a part of the software ^^ That seems worse than the advertising clause. I'm not sure if they actually want you to print the notice on the cartridge. But the license doesn't permit non-developers (mirror admins, for example) to distribute the code. Has anybody asked Sun for a clarification of the license, or tried to obtain the code under a different license? Or maybe the FSF has obtained a suitable license and just forgot to update the copyright notice? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
Florian Weimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Andrew Suffield [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is included on all tape media and as a part of the software ^^ That seems worse than the advertising clause. I'm not sure if they actually want you to print the notice on the cartridge. But the license doesn't permit non-developers (mirror admins, for example) to distribute the code. Has anybody asked Sun for a clarification of the license, or tried to obtain the code under a different license? Or maybe the FSF has obtained a suitable license and just forgot to update the copyright notice? Sun has repeatedly clarified elsewhere that the intent of this is essentially MIT/X11, except you may not distribute this product alone. -Brian -- Brian T. Sniffen[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.evenmere.org/~bts/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
On Fri, 22 Aug 2003, Brian M. Carlson wrote: Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. I'm personally concerned about this particular phrase, as it seems to preclude Debian from distributing software with Sun RPC in it unless Debian itself is developing the product or program using Sun RPC. This in effect, violates DFSG #7 and #1, as evidenced below: A distributes a program developed by A based on Sun RPC to B. B cannot turn around distribute the program to C unless they repackage it as a product or program developed by B. B does not have the same rights to distribute Sun RPC as A does. (#7) Nor, in fact, can B distribute Sun RPC without repackaging it (#1). I'd hope that Sun meant something else by this clause, or that it's been cleaned up, but I'm not totally certain about it. Don Armstrong -- She was alot like starbucks. IE, generic and expensive. -- hugh macleod http://www.gapingvoid.com/batch3.htm http://www.donarmstrong.com http://www.anylevel.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 02:05:57PM -0400, Brian T. Sniffen wrote: Has anybody asked Sun for a clarification of the license, or tried to obtain the code under a different license? Or maybe the FSF has obtained a suitable license and just forgot to update the copyright notice? Sun has repeatedly clarified elsewhere that the intent of this is essentially MIT/X11, except you may not distribute this product alone. We also have essentially the same license with ttf-bitstream-vera. I'd like to close this bug, but haven't had the time to make sure that I have solid arguments as to why to do so. Assistance putting enough of a case together for that would be appreciated (and we can include it in the copyright file for future reference) Tks, Jeff Bailey -- Breathe into my hands, I'll cup them like a glass to drink from... - Tattle Tale -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
On Fri, Aug 22, 2003 at 06:39:47AM +, Brian M. Carlson wrote: Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. Sun RPC is a product of Sun Microsystems, Inc. and is provided for unrestricted use provided that this legend is included on all tape media and as a part of the software program in whole or part. Uh, *all* tape media? Is that all tape media in the world, including that which I don't own? If it's the tape media I own, do I have to put this legend even on tape media that do not contain anything copyrighted by Sun Microsystems? I *assume* that this restriction is not meant to be construed more broadly than copyright law will permit. If it is meant to impact things that have nothing to do with the code, then this flagrantly violates DFSG 9. Furthermore, does on all tape media mean physically marked on the tape cartridge, or merely present electromagnetically, probably encoded as data? If the former, it's at least as onerous as the BSD advertising clause. If the latter, I don't think it's a problem. Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. This violates DFSG 1 and arguably DFSG 5. It might skate through DFSG 1's backwards-bent wording if the sentence stopped at part of a product or program. But it doesn't stop there. You can't redistribute this code unless you develop with it. This requires distributors to be software developers, not ordinary joes who've never written a line of code in their lives. SUN RPC IS PROVIDED AS IS WITH NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF DESIGN, MERCHANTIBILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE OR TRADE PRACTICE. Okay. Sun RPC is provided with no support and without any obligation on the part of Sun Microsystems, Inc. to assist in its use, correction, modification or enhancement. Okay. SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. SHALL HAVE NO LIABILITY WITH RESPECT TO THE INFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHTS, TRADE SECRETS OR ANY PATENTS BY SUN RPC OR ANY PART THEREOF. Okay. In no event will Sun Microsystems, Inc. be liable for any lost revenue or profits or other special, indirect and consequential damages, even if Sun has been advised of the possibility of such damages. Okay. For reference: 1. Free Redistribution The license of a Debian component may not restrict any party from selling or giving away the software as a component of an aggregate software distribution containing programs from several different sources. The license may not require a royalty or other fee for such sale. 5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons. 9. License Must Not Contaminate Other Software The license must not place restrictions on other software that is distributed along with the licensed software. For example, the license must not insist that all other programs distributed on the same medium must be free software. -- G. Branden Robinson|I had thought very carefully about Debian GNU/Linux |committing hara-kiri over this, but [EMAIL PROTECTED] |I overslept this morning. http://people.debian.org/~branden/ |-- Toshio Yamaguchi pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
Scripsit Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. I'm personally concerned about this particular phrase, as it seems to preclude Debian from distributing software with Sun RPC in it unless Debian itself is developing the product or program using Sun RPC. Does it even allow Debian's mirror operators to redistribute Debian if Sun RPC is included? Assume the mirror operator never develop any programs himself. -- Henning Makholm En tapper tinsoldat. En dame i spagat. Du er en lykkelig mand ... -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#181493: Is the Sun RPC License DFSG-free?
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003, Henning Makholm wrote: Scripsit Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] Copyright (C) 1984, Sun Microsystems, Inc. Users may copy or modify Sun RPC without charge, but are not authorized to license or distribute it to anyone else except as part of a product or program developed by the user. I'm personally concerned about this particular phrase, as it seems to preclude Debian from distributing software with Sun RPC in it unless Debian itself is developing the product or program using Sun RPC. Does it even allow Debian's mirror operators to redistribute Debian if Sun RPC is included? Assume the mirror operator never develop any programs himself. I was concerned about that as well. I think it would be ok if they were acting as an agent of Debian, but unoficial mirrors might be SOL. [But then again, I am not a lawyer, so cum grano solis.] Don Armstrong -- Any excuse will serve a tyrant. -- Aesop http://www.donarmstrong.com http://www.anylevel.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
