Re: [gNewSense-users] Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011 16:19:37 +0100 Ben Hutchings b...@decadent.org.uk wrote: On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:51:16PM +0930, Karl Goetz wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:39 +0100 Michael Dorrington michael.dorring...@gmail.com wrote: [...] AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in order to be functional and where no free firmware currently exists for them. So if you don't considered Debian to be a Free GNU/Linux distribution then, I think, you won't considered the Debian kernel to be suitable for gNewSense. Does this mean 'retained in tree', or is it the stuff with no free firmware in the non-free packages? Practically all modern peripherals run firmware, usually loaded from EEPROM or flash, and almost always non-free. So the question is not whether a driver relies on non-free firmware but whether that firmware is required to be installed in the host filesystem and loaded via the driver. Thanks for clarifying that, my wording was quite sloppy (sorry about that). The drivers included in upstream kernel releases that load non-free firmware are retained as part of the linux-2.6 source package and most of them are included in the binary packages. (Some are excluded due to quality considerations or because they rely on firmware embedded within the driver, which we remove.) If we were to package these drivers separately, they would belong in the 'contrib' archive section (free software with non-free or unpackaged dependencies). Since we do not, and since the kernel in general does not have non-free dependencies, these drivers remain in the 'main' archive section. Thanks for this clarification. kk -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gNewSense-users] Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)
On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:39 +0100 Michael Dorrington michael.dorring...@gmail.com wrote: Karl Goetz wrote: On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:42:41 -0300 Emiliano M. Rudenick emilianoruden...@gmail.com wrote: We don't have a free kernel in the archive yet, but you could easily install linux-libre of your own accord. thanks, kk The kernel that comes default in Debian Squeeze is completely free. The kernel produced by linux-libre, and the kernel produced by debian differ. This doesn't inherantly mean debians kernel is meant to be non-free, but it does mean there is some confusion between the projects which will have to be worked out. If we can use debians kernel unaltered thats fantastic, but i'm still trying to find someone who knows kernels (not me) to compare them and tell us if thats ok. thanks, kk Hi mike, thanks for the reply. AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in order to be functional and where no free firmware currently exists for them. So if you don't considered Debian to be a Free GNU/Linux distribution then, I think, you won't considered the Debian kernel to be suitable for gNewSense. Does this mean 'retained in tree', or is it the stuff with no free firmware in the non-free packages? thanks, kk -- Karl Goetz, (Kamping_Kaiser / VK5FOSS) Debian contributor / gNewSense Maintainer http://www.kgoetz.id.au No, I won't join your social networking group signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gNewSense-users] Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)
On Mon, Apr 04, 2011 at 09:51:16PM +0930, Karl Goetz wrote: On Thu, 31 Mar 2011 20:52:39 +0100 Michael Dorrington michael.dorring...@gmail.com wrote: [...] AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in order to be functional and where no free firmware currently exists for them. So if you don't considered Debian to be a Free GNU/Linux distribution then, I think, you won't considered the Debian kernel to be suitable for gNewSense. Does this mean 'retained in tree', or is it the stuff with no free firmware in the non-free packages? Practically all modern peripherals run firmware, usually loaded from EEPROM or flash, and almost always non-free. So the question is not whether a driver relies on non-free firmware but whether that firmware is required to be installed in the host filesystem and loaded via the driver. The drivers included in upstream kernel releases that load non-free firmware are retained as part of the linux-2.6 source package and most of them are included in the binary packages. (Some are excluded due to quality considerations or because they rely on firmware embedded within the driver, which we remove.) If we were to package these drivers separately, they would belong in the 'contrib' archive section (free software with non-free or unpackaged dependencies). Since we do not, and since the kernel in general does not have non-free dependencies, these drivers remain in the 'main' archive section. Ben. -- Ben Hutchings We get into the habit of living before acquiring the habit of thinking. - Albert Camus -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-kernel-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110404151937.go2...@decadent.org.uk
Re: [gNewSense-users] Suitability of the Debian Squeeze (and later) Linux kernel for gNewSense. Was (no subject)
Karl Goetz wrote: On Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:42:41 -0300 Emiliano M. Rudenick emilianoruden...@gmail.com wrote: We don't have a free kernel in the archive yet, but you could easily install linux-libre of your own accord. thanks, kk The kernel that comes default in Debian Squeeze is completely free. The kernel produced by linux-libre, and the kernel produced by debian differ. This doesn't inherantly mean debians kernel is meant to be non-free, but it does mean there is some confusion between the projects which will have to be worked out. If we can use debians kernel unaltered thats fantastic, but i'm still trying to find someone who knows kernels (not me) to compare them and tell us if thats ok. thanks, kk AFAICT, the Debian kernel complies with the DFSG (or is extremely close). However, it retains drivers that require a firmware in order to be functional and where no free firmware currently exists for them. So if you don't considered Debian to be a Free GNU/Linux distribution then, I think, you won't considered the Debian kernel to be suitable for gNewSense. Regards, Mike. Another first is the completely free Linux kernel, which no longer contains problematic firmware files. These were split out into separate packages and moved out of the Debian main archive into the non-free area of our archive, which is not enabled by default. In this way Debian users have the possibility of running a completely free operating system, but may still choose to use non-free firmware files if necessary. ___ gNewSense-users mailing list gnewsense-us...@nongnu.org http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gnewsense-users signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
