Re: fortunes with quotes from movies such as 'The Matrix' etc.
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:26:53AM +0530, Viral wrote: I followed the previous thread from the archives of debian-legal last year for including fortune packages with quotes from movies etc. I understand, that this would be considered as Fair Use, as long as it is correctly attributed. However because of inclusion in the archives, CDs can be sold for profit, which makes matters complicated. So, if it is included in the non-free section, would it be ok ? The quotes are included not for the sole purpose of profit, but with accompanying software and packages. Ugh, people have been making profits indirectly off of fair-use quotations for years. If Hollywood and every book publisher known to man can do it legally, why the hell can't we? I realize that most people are worried about sue-happy corporate America trying to hunt them down wherever they are in the entire world. But c'mon people, at the rate we're going Debian itself will be declared non-free simply because the lot of us have become a bunch of cowards afraid to stand up for our principles. If we are going to not do everything that could possibly somewhere be considered illegal under some bizarre interpretation of the laws of the Pathetic Republic of Greater Stupidity (insert random country here), then we may as well all give up and go back to using proprietary software. First crypto, then mp3, then CSS modules, now the Linux kernel and the fortune databases? Debian's trademark caution seems to be taking a back seat to rampant paranoia taken to the extreme of idiocy. I'm waiting for some highly intelligent idiot to demand that gdb be moved to non-free since it can be used as a circumvention device under the DMCA and similar ridiculous laws popping up in other countries whose leaders appear to have risen from the shallow end of the gene pool. Basically, can one include fortune-matrix etc. in any part of the debian archive today, without bothering about legal trouble. If there is legal trouble to be had by distributing fortunes-matrix in main, then there are also problems with every other fortune database Debian has, plus dict-wn, and probably a large collection of other things. Attributed quotations are fair use, it's as simple as that regardless of what the MPAA, RIAA, CBAA, XYZZY, and anyone else for that matter would like you to believe. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer KnaraKat Bite me. * TheOne gets some salt, then proceeds to nibble on KnaraKat a little bit pgpkvz2raNfGW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: ITP: ttf-japanese-kandata
At Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:54:02 -0700, Osamu Aoki wrote: Big question is what did Mr. Wakaba used as the base of glyph. And how far modification later affected the total collection. If he started with then popular PC9800's ROM fonts with mere 16x16 bitmap fonts as starting point of making TT fonts, it may be well within fair use. I can't heard the base of glyph. And we can't detect the problem part because he recycled part of glyph widely. But Mr.Uchida is rewriting the problem part now. It will take more one of half year to finish removing the problem. In addition, if kandata is legal, he don't like that we distribute kandata under such a unclear situation. So, I decided that I wait his work. I'll make kandata package after the problem will be removed. Thanks. Takashi Okamoto
Re: fortunes with quotes from movies such as 'The Matrix' etc.
What is not highly visible to most is that Hollywood and book publishers have large rights clearance infrastructures. Moreover, the threat of mutual copyright destruction is strong among these established organizations i.e. you sue me for copyright infringement, I may or probably will counterclaim against you for copyright infringement. I appreciate your pragmatic and political concerns but it should be noted that strong fair use rights are primarily a U.S. concept. Fair use rights elsewhere in the world are pretty weak (even non-existent). Operating through the Internet potentially puts all these others laws into play. Also consider this case from this Pathetic Republic of Greater Stupidity - New York City: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=searchcase=/data2/circs/2nd/977992.html BTW, many would consider the Second Circuit probably the 2nd most respected and precedential court in the U.S. with respect to copyright matters (only behind the U.S. Supreme Court) - if that means anything From: Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Viral [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: debian-legal@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: fortunes with quotes from movies such as 'The Matrix' etc. Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 23:58:11 -0700 On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:26:53AM +0530, Viral wrote: I followed the previous thread from the archives of debian-legal last year for including fortune packages with quotes from movies etc. I understand, that this would be considered as Fair Use, as long as it is correctly attributed. However because of inclusion in the archives, CDs can be sold for profit, which makes matters complicated. So, if it is included in the non-free section, would it be ok ? The quotes are included not for the sole purpose of profit, but with accompanying software and packages. Ugh, people have been making profits indirectly off of fair-use quotations for years. If Hollywood and every book publisher known to man can do it legally, why the hell can't we? I realize that most people are worried about sue-happy corporate America trying to hunt them down wherever they are in the entire world. But c'mon people, at the rate we're going Debian itself will be declared non-free simply because the lot of us have become a bunch of cowards afraid to stand up for our principles. If we are going to not do everything that could possibly somewhere be considered illegal under some bizarre interpretation of the laws of the Pathetic Republic of Greater Stupidity (insert random country here), then we may as well all give up and go back to using proprietary software. First crypto, then mp3, then CSS modules, now the Linux kernel and the fortune databases? Debian's trademark caution seems to be taking a back seat to rampant paranoia taken to the extreme of idiocy. I'm waiting for some highly intelligent idiot to demand that gdb be moved to non-free since it can be used as a circumvention device under the DMCA and similar ridiculous laws popping up in other countries whose leaders appear to have risen from the shallow end of the gene pool. Basically, can one include fortune-matrix etc. in any part of the debian archive today, without bothering about legal trouble. If there is legal trouble to be had by distributing fortunes-matrix in main, then there are also problems with every other fortune database Debian has, plus dict-wn, and probably a large collection of other things. Attributed quotations are fair use, it's as simple as that regardless of what the MPAA, RIAA, CBAA, XYZZY, and anyone else for that matter would like you to believe. -- Joseph Carter [EMAIL PROTECTED]Free software developer KnaraKat Bite me. * TheOne gets some salt, then proceeds to nibble on KnaraKat a little bit attach3 _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: Keyspan Firmware fun
This is the kind of notice that gets deep-pocket distributors in knots. Pedigree is a major concern. Where did this code from? Is it authorized for distribution? Did some insider take this (perhaps confidential) source and add it to the distribution? The deep-pocket distributor could be sued by the owner of this code for reproduction/distribution infringement and it will be of little help to say that it got it from Debian, FSF, Red Hat, etc. For one, the limitation of liability clauses in the various open source agreements. Further, even if there was a valid claim against someone downstream, that person(s)/corporation(s)/etc. may be judgment proof. In the end, it will likely be a cost (perhaps a huge cost) of doing business that needs to be seriously considered in the distribution decision by deep-pocket distributors (or any distributor for that matter). Just some thoughts when I saw the FORE notice jump out From: David Starner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Greg KH [EMAIL PROTECTED], debian-legal@lists.debian.org, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Keyspan Firmware fun Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 02:55:29 -0500 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 12:33:09AM -0700, Aaron Lehmann wrote: Copyright (c) 1995-2000 FORE Systems, Inc., as an unpublished work. This This is what gets me. It's being distributed, in some cases by permanant media, to millions of random people, and it's unpublished? -- David Starner - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pointless website: http://dvdeug.dhis.org I don't care if Bill personally has my name and reads my email and laughs at me. In fact, I'd be rather honored. - Joseph_Greg -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: license for a mix of free sw + propritary stuff
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 10:26:42AM -0400, Chloe Hoffman wrote: Just for interest.. here is the European Copyright Directive language with respect to reverse engineering. Note that reverse engineering is quite limited. Also, more accurately, the contractual prohibition may be null and void but there are no other consequences AFAIK e.g. fines, etc. Doesn't this remove rights granted by a previous directive, which allowed the automotive spare parts industry to continue (replacement engine controllers, etc.)? PS. I do not want copies of replies. I am subscribed to this list. -- Paul Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: license for a mix of free sw + propritary stuff
Just for interest.. here is the European Copyright Directive language with respect to reverse engineering. Note that reverse engineering is quite limited. Also, more accurately, the contractual prohibition may be null and void but there are no other consequences AFAIK e.g. fines, etc. Article 6 Decompilation 1. The authorization of the rightholder shall not be required where reproduction of the code and translation of its form within the meaning of Article 4 (a) and (b) are indispensable to obtain the information necessary to achieve the interoperability of an independently created computer program with other programs, provided that the following conditions are met: (a) these acts are performed by the licensee or by another person having a right to use a copy of a program, or on their behalf by a person authorized to to so; (b) the information necessary to achieve interoperability has not previously been readily available to the persons referred to in subparagraph (a); and (c) these acts are confined to the parts of the original program which are necessary to achieve interoperability. 2. The provisions of paragraph 1 shall not permit the information obtained through its application: (a) to be used for goals other than to achieve the interoperability of the independently created computer program; (b) to be given to others, except when necessary for the interoperability of the independently created computer program; or (c) to be used for the development, production or marketing of a computer program substantially similar in its expression, or for any other act which infringes copyright. 3. In accordance with the provisions of the Berne Convention for the protection of Literary and Artistic Works, the provisions of this Article may not be interpreted in such a way as to allow its application to be used in a manner which unreasonably prejudices the right holder's legitimate interests or conflicts with a normal exploitation of the computer program. Article 9 Continued application of other legal provisions 1. The provisions of this Directive shall be without prejudice to any other legal provisions such as those concerning patent rights, trade-marks, unfair competition, trade secrets, protection of semi-conductor products or the law of contract. Any contractual provisions contrary to Article 6 or to the exceptions provided for in Article 5 (2) and (3) shall be null and void. From: Paul Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: debian-legal@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: license for a mix of free sw + propritary stuff Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:37:36 +0100 On Mon, Apr 30, 2001 at 01:13:29AM -0500, David Starner wrote: It's not in the power of a copyright license to forbid me from reverse engineering something. That would take a shrinkwrap license. In the European Union, it would be an unlawful restriction of rights, too. -- Paul Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Re: postgresql and libssl - Bug#95146
On Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 09:13:49PM +0100 , Oliver Elphick wrote:
I have to reiterate a query about what to do with postgresql in view of its
now being linked with libssl.
don't do it
Since this question is currently being referred to legal advice, do you
want me to move postgresql into non-us, which will force any packages
depending on it into non-us too, or should I leave it alone pending
resolution of the legal question?
oohhh. it the crypto really necessary? I think, that building without libssl
installed fix it
(I do not propose to do anything to remove the ssl code from PostgreSQL.)
Petr Cech
--
Debian GNU/Linux maintainer - www.debian.{org,cz}
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Resistance is futile. Open your source code and prepare for assimilation.
Peak
Re: postgresql and libssl - Bug#95146
Petr == Petr Cech [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Since this question is currently being referred to legal advice, do you want me to move postgresql into non-us, which will force any packages depending on it into non-us too, or should I leave it alone pending resolution of the legal question? Petr oohhh. it the crypto really necessary? I think, that Petr building without libssl installed fix it Yes, for most applications, security is really necessary. For most security models, that does mean crypto. We should be encouraging maintainers to help Debian be secure, even if that means moving many packages into non-us.
Re: discomforting news on the code-as-speech front
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 05:00:11PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,43470,00.html There is not a decision yet, but it's looking grim. Judging things like this too early is usually a mistake. And I would suspect that Declan has gotten pretty cynical on the US Court system. But, all the more reason for Debian to take a stand for principle and distribute CSS decoders. sam th --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://www.abisource.com/~sam/ OpenPGP Key: CABD33FC --- http://samth.dyndns.org/key DeCSS: http://samth.dynds.org/decss pgpVTDJFraWw1.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: discomforting news on the code-as-speech front
On 01-May-2001 Branden Robinson wrote: http://www.wired.com/news/digiwood/0,1412,43470,00.html There is not a decision yet, but it's looking grim. The U.S. 2nd Circuit court of appeals looks disinclined to regard compiled code as speech. They also seem to feel that fair use does not extend to digital copying. I'm sure all of us who use analog-encoded analog media to back up the analog data on our hard drives can breathe a sigh of relief at that jurisprudence. How can you backup the dvd in analog space? Leaving out the fact you lose a lot of the info, macrovision won't let you. It concerns me that the judge even suggested it (or was it a lawyer).
RE: discomforting news on the code-as-speech front
On Tue, 1 May 2001, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: How can you backup the dvd in analog space? Leaving out the fact you You can't. However, fortunately the argument that fair use isn't intended to apply to technologically modern media holds no water at all and is unlikely to be accepted by anybody (even this appeals court). Appeals courts always beat up whoever's presenting at the time with hypothetical arguments. As far as the 1st Amendment applying to source code and not compiled code, I don't really have a problem with that. It should be obvious how this benefits free software.
Re: discomforting news on the code-as-speech front
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 03:07:32PM -0700, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote: How can you backup the dvd in analog space? Leaving out the fact you lose a lot of the info, macrovision won't let you. It concerns me that the judge even suggested it (or was it a lawyer). Yup, it was Judge Jon Newman, according to the Wired article. -- G. Branden Robinson | If you wish to strive for peace of soul, Debian GNU/Linux| then believe; if you wish to be a [EMAIL PROTECTED] | devotee of truth, then inquire. http://www.debian.org/~branden/ | -- Friedrich Nietzsche pgp3LeCwpCgZd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: postgresql and libssl - Bug#95146
On Sun, Apr 29, 2001 at 09:13:49PM +0100, Oliver Elphick wrote: I have to reiterate a query about what to do with postgresql in view of its now being linked with libssl. Since this question is currently being referred to legal advice, do you want me to move postgresql into non-us, which will force any packages depending on it into non-us too, or should I leave it alone pending resolution of the legal question? (I do not propose to do anything to remove the ssl code from PostgreSQL.) Do not neglect security in order to avoid non-us. If current policy dictates that PostgreSQL as it currently stands needs to go in non-us, then that's where you should put it. Policy that requires packages depending on packages in non-us also be in non-us will not change even if the current legal inquiry finds that not all crypto containing uploads need to go to non-us. -- Brian Ristuccia [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Copyright for Netscape Plugin SDK
On Tue, May 01, 2001 at 09:36:05PM -0400, Matt Zimmerman wrote: which gives no mention of copyright or license. I looked through the tarball for the Unix LiveConnect/Plug-in SDK (unix-sdk-3.0b5.tar.Z) and found the following files corresponding to those in the Flash distribution: cb450d9b66cb7bb1eecf13aa66c8362c PluginSDK30b5/include/jri.h cb450d9b66cb7bb1eecf13aa66c8362c flash-0.4.10/Plugin/jri.h 37d4582dffe367807db7583adf018e86 PluginSDK30b5/include/jri_md.h 37d4582dffe367807db7583adf018e86 flash-0.4.10/Plugin/jri_md.h 65c3a36f66d5e5f9908b46b72c0ced8d PluginSDK30b5/include/jritypes.h 65c3a36f66d5e5f9908b46b72c0ced8d flash-0.4.10/Plugin/jritypes.h f24068f1f21c45dd9e60dae3a546bf90 PluginSDK30b5/include/npapi.h f24068f1f21c45dd9e60dae3a546bf90 flash-0.4.10/Plugin/npapi.h 22c95ae864588aae5a7f8d842a01cc31 PluginSDK30b5/include/npupp.h 22c95ae864588aae5a7f8d842a01cc31 flash-0.4.10/Plugin/npupp.h d0e163291e1a9a83f533fabcb98ea3c0 PluginSDK30b5/common/npunix.c d0e163291e1a9a83f533fabcb98ea3c0 flash-0.4.10/Plugin/npunix.c In addition, flash-0.4.10/Plugin/plugin.c appears to be a modified version of PluginSDK30b5/examples/simple/Source/npsimple.c, which carries the same All rights reserved copyright. Does anyone know of a license document from Netscape regarding use of these files? They are obviously intended to be used in third-party plugins, but their copyright doesn't seem to allow it. Maybe the same or similar files are available in Mozilla and could could be used instead? I know Mozilla can use plugins intended for Netscape Communicator 3.x and 4.x, so it's not unlikely that there exist some .h files defining this interface in that codebase. -- Brian Ristuccia [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
fortunes with quotes from movies such as 'The Matrix' etc.
Hi, I followed the previous thread from the archives of debian-legal last year for including fortune packages with quotes from movies etc. I understand, that this would be considered as Fair Use, as long as it is correctly attributed. However because of inclusion in the archives, CDs can be sold for profit, which makes matters complicated. So, if it is included in the non-free section, would it be ok ? The quotes are included not for the sole purpose of profit, but with accompanying software and packages. Basically, can one include fortune-matrix etc. in any part of the debian archive today, without bothering about legal trouble. Thanks, Please cc me replies as I don't read debian-legal. viral -- And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon. pgp2T0jeXKjl9.pgp Description: PGP signature
