Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
However I don't think there is anything copyrightable in these files; they only contain series of numbers that describe the mappings. Do you people think it could be suitable for main? (Please follow-up on -legal only for licensing discussions.) Ondrej, are you willing - if the legal problems are settled out - to package it? Otherwise I guess me or any of the co-maintainers could do it, the packaging is absolutely trivial. It's already packaged in pkg-freedesktop SVN, but it was rejected by ftp-masters due licensing problems. Ondrej. -- Ondřej Surý [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://blog.rfc1925.org/ Kulturní občasník *** http://www.obcasnik.cz/ Nehoupat, prosím *** http://nehoupat.blogspot.com/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
However I don't think there is anything copyrightable in these files; they only contain series of numbers that describe the mappings. I don't see any reason in principle why series of numbers that describe the mappings couldn't be protected by copyright. Could you provide more details of why you think those numbers/mapping might *not* be copyright-protected? Thanks, John (TINLA) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
On 28/11/2007, Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Based on a quick look, these files establish a correspondence between different character set encodings. Copyright protects creative expression. What is the creative part of this mapping? I can see two possible bases: character selection and ambiguity resolution. Can't speak for the US, but in the UK the standard for copyright protection is somewhat lower than creative expression. Generally, a work merely has to be original (i.e. not copied from elsewhere). However, a file consisting of mappings of this nature probably constitutes a database under UK law (and in other EU jurisdictions). In that case it only attracts protection if, and only if, by reason of the selection or arrangement of the contents of the database the database constitutes the author's own intellectual creation. I really doubt that this file would meet that test, or that it would reach the substantial investment test for the separate database right. That being said, I am not sure enough to risk it in court on my dime. I would hope that Adobe would be willing to provide the data with a DFSG-compatible license and/or a notice that makes it clear whether they think the mappings are protected by copyright. Well, quite. What I said above only goes to show how complex copyright questions can become, and that's only looking at one jurisdiction. I find it hard to believe Adobe could or would assert copyright here, but I'm no more willing than you to be the one who tests that hypothesis! John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
John Halton writes: However I don't think there is anything copyrightable in these files; they only contain series of numbers that describe the mappings. I don't see any reason in principle why series of numbers that describe the mappings couldn't be protected by copyright. Could you provide more details of why you think those numbers/mapping might *not* be copyright-protected? Based on a quick look, these files establish a correspondence between different character set encodings. Copyright protects creative expression. What is the creative part of this mapping? I can see two possible bases: character selection and ambiguity resolution. Character selection would be the selection of which characters to list (or not list) in each file. Ambiguity resolution would be the handling of look-alike characters in distinct sets. Neither of those seem like they are actually creative, given how thoroughly standardized and documented the character set encodings are. That being said, I am not sure enough to risk it in court on my dime. I would hope that Adobe would be willing to provide the data with a DFSG-compatible license and/or a notice that makes it clear whether they think the mappings are protected by copyright. Michael Poole (IANAL, IANADD, TINLA) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:43:34PM +, John Halton wrote: On 28/11/2007, Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Based on a quick look, these files establish a correspondence between different character set encodings. Copyright protects creative expression. What is the creative part of this mapping? I can see two possible bases: character selection and ambiguity resolution. Can't speak for the US, but in the UK the standard for copyright protection is somewhat lower than creative expression. Generally, a work merely has to be original (i.e. not copied from elsewhere). However, a file consisting of mappings of this nature probably constitutes a database under UK law (and in other EU jurisdictions). In that case it only attracts protection if, and only if, by reason of the selection or arrangement of the contents of the database the database constitutes the author's own intellectual creation. I really doubt that this file would meet that test, or that it would reach the substantial investment test for the separate database right. That being said, I am not sure enough to risk it in court on my dime. I would hope that Adobe would be willing to provide the data with a DFSG-compatible license and/or a notice that makes it clear whether they think the mappings are protected by copyright. Well, quite. What I said above only goes to show how complex copyright questions can become, and that's only looking at one jurisdiction. I find it hard to believe Adobe could or would assert copyright here, but I'm no more willing than you to be the one who tests that hypothesis! FWIW, I believe a search of debian-legal archives will show that we've come to the same conclusion before about copyrightability of non-creative databases, and are already shipping a number of these in Debian. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Licensing of iso-codes
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Olive [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Arnoud Engelfriet wrote: Tobias Toedter wrote: Would it be possible for non-free programs to use that data (XML files and translations) if iso-codes is licensed under GPL? Or would we need to use the LGPL for this? My first thought is what do you expect the GPL to do for you with this data set? I don't see how the license of a data file can affect the licensing status of a program that processes the data file. One can consider that the data file is a library and using the data is linking. I am unsure if this interpretation but I think it would be best to license either under the LGPL or under the GPL with an explicit exception. Even if it appears that this exception is not useful; it would at least have the merit to clarify the situation. Responding very late, but it sounds to me like this file is a collection of data. As such, it can't be copyrighted! I'd agree with Arnoud. The licence on the data file won't affect the program. But there's a good chance that the licence on the data file is invalid ... Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 01:33:07PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:43:34PM +, John Halton wrote: On 28/11/2007, Michael Poole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Based on a quick look, these files establish a correspondence between different character set encodings. Copyright protects creative expression. What is the creative part of this mapping? I can see two possible bases: character selection and ambiguity resolution. Can't speak for the US, but in the UK the standard for copyright protection is somewhat lower than creative expression. Generally, a work merely has to be original (i.e. not copied from elsewhere). However, a file consisting of mappings of this nature probably constitutes a database under UK law (and in other EU jurisdictions). In that case it only attracts protection if, and only if, by reason of the selection or arrangement of the contents of the database the database constitutes the author's own intellectual creation. I really doubt that this file would meet that test, or that it would reach the substantial investment test for the separate database right. That being said, I am not sure enough to risk it in court on my dime. I would hope that Adobe would be willing to provide the data with a DFSG-compatible license and/or a notice that makes it clear whether they think the mappings are protected by copyright. Well, quite. What I said above only goes to show how complex copyright questions can become, and that's only looking at one jurisdiction. I find it hard to believe Adobe could or would assert copyright here, but I'm no more willing than you to be the one who tests that hypothesis! FWIW, I believe a search of debian-legal archives will show that we've come to the same conclusion before about copyrightability of non-creative databases, and are already shipping a number of these in Debian. Even if not, an equivalent table could be be generated from the data in icu, iconv or anything else that deals with character set conversions, provided that the format is known. Mike -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 01:33:07PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: FWIW, I believe a search of debian-legal archives will show that we've come to the same conclusion before about copyrightability of non-creative databases, and are already shipping a number of these in Debian. Thanks, that's useful to know. I'm still trying to get a feel for how Debian treats these cases where there is no express licence, how people weigh up the legal pros and cons. John -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#451799: new evince cannot display Japanese characters correctly
John Halton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks, that's useful to know. I'm still trying to get a feel for how Debian treats these cases where there is no express licence, how people weigh up the legal pros and cons. Inconsistently :-) -- \The World is not dangerous because of those who do harm but | `\ because of those who look at it without doing anything. | _o__) —Albert Einstein | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
