Re: .ttf in source packages

[Ben Finney]

Jeff Epler  writes:

> Are ".ttf" files "source files" under the DFSG?

That's not a question that can be answered for all works. It needs to be
asked of each work.

> (Surely they are not the source files used within Bitstream during the
> development of the font!)

Probably not. The question to ask is: What is the preferred form of the
work *today* for someone making modifications to the work?

If there is no better form that even exists, then the preferred form of
the work today is the only form of the work today.

On the other hand, if there is some better form of the work, that would
be preferred when making modifications, that form is the source form.

And yes, this does raise the question of the honesty of those who make
claims about what forms of the work exist today.

-- 
 \  “Instead of a trap door, what about a trap window? The guy |
  `\  looks out it, and if he leans too far, he falls out. Wait. I |
_o__)guess that's like a regular window.” —Jack Handey |
Ben Finney

.ttf in source packages

[Jeff Epler]

Based on the recent discussion of the "Hack" typeface, I have become
curious.

Debian ships fonts in "main" where the source package contains only .ttf
files.  ttf-bitstream-vera is an example of such a package.

Are ".ttf" files "source files" under the DFSG?  (Surely they are not
the source files used within Bitstream during the development of the
font!)  If not, do such packages belong in "main"?

Jeff

Re: DFSG + Hack typeface license with transition to proposed new source file build in Debian package

[Chris Simpkins]

> I personally think that technical issues should not be worked around by
imposing licensing restrictions.
If typeface development tools need to be improved in order to get
better QA, then I hope they can be enhanced from a *technical* point of
view. In the meanwhile, licensing restrictions should not be introduced
to compensate for technical limitations.

A very valid point and well taken.

On Aug 16, 2017, 11:02 AM -0400, wrote:
>
> I personally think that technical issues should not be worked around by
> imposing licensing restrictions.
> If typeface development tools need to be improved in order to get
> better QA, then I hope they can be enhanced from a *technical* point of
> view. In the meanwhile, licensing restrictions should not be introduced
> to compensate for technical limitations.

Re: DFSG + Hack typeface license with transition to proposed new source file build in Debian package

[Francesco Poli]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 08:40:00 -0400 Chris Simpkins wrote:

> [...] Downstream open source project font licensing from the days
> prior to SIL OFL (and to some degree even after that period) is a
> bit of a quagmire.

Hello,
I agree that font licensing is a quagmire.

Well, I even go further and personally think that it is a real mess:
I wish more fonts were simply released under the terms of wide-spread
and well understood licenses (such as the Expat/MIT license or the GNU
GPL v2 + font exception)... Doing so would spare a good number of
headaches to many people!

> 
> Item 2 is where the reserved font name declaration is located.
> I have been considering modification of the language here to permit
> forks to use “Hack” in the name, but not “Hack” alone for a forked
> typeface.
[...]

Personally speaking, I would encourage you to at least relax this
restriction (or, even better, to drop it entirely).
That way, only one name (or no name) would be forbidden for derivative
fonts and everything would be simpler...

[...]
> It is a  downside in the typeface software development area that
> is in need of repair.  But it is a reality that we face.

I personally think that technical issues should not be worked around by
imposing licensing restrictions.
If typeface development tools need to be improved in order to get
better QA, then I hope they can be enhanced from a *technical* point of
view. In the meanwhile, licensing restrictions should not be introduced
to compensate for technical limitations.
This is my personal opinion.

I hope this helps.
Bye.


-- 
 http://www.inventati.org/frx/
 There's not a second to spare! To the laboratory!
. Francesco Poli .
 GnuPG key fpr == CA01 1147 9CD2 EFDF FB82  3925 3E1C 27E1 1F69 BFFE


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Re: DFSG + Hack typeface license with transition to proposed new source file build in Debian package

[Chris Simpkins]

Thank you Jeff.  The Hack Open Font License was modeled on the Bitstream Vera 
license and SIL OFL.  Downstream open source project font licensing from the 
days prior to SIL OFL (and to some degree even after that period) is a bit of a 
quagmire.

Item 2 is where the reserved font name declaration is located.  I have been 
considering modification of the language here to permit forks to use “Hack” in 
the name, but not “Hack” alone for a forked typeface.  We have bound our own 
hands in this language and would like to make/release some derivative typefaces 
from the Hack source with names such as “Hack Ligature”, “Hack ASCII”, “Hack 
ZeroSlash”, etc.  This will also support other project teams who would like to 
associate their fork with the Hack upstream source by using Hack followed by a 
string that distinguishes it from the upstream source.

The impetus for the reserved font name issue is simply QA.  We perform a great 
deal of manual testing prior to releases that cannot be fully automated in the 
current era of font development software.  The exact build process that we use 
is the one that we have validated and want to support.  One of my worries if we 
loosen this requirement (i.e. fully remove the reserved font name) is that we 
will be approached on the repository about all build issues assuming that we 
will be able to troubleshoot the issue for teams that elect to build with a 
different approach.  There are numerous other ways to compile the fonts out 
there and the OpenType tables as well as the hinting on the fonts can, and in 
many cases likely will, change for those who do not appreciate these issues.  
It is a  downside in the typeface software development area that is in need of 
repair.  But it is a reality that we face.

Will wait for more feedback and then weigh in further.

On Aug 16, 2017, 8:23 AM -0400, wrote:
>
> This License becomes null and void to the extent applicable to Fonts or Font 
> Software that has been modified and is distributed under the "Bitstream Vera" 
> names

Re: DFSG + Hack typeface license with transition to proposed new source file build in Debian package

[Jeff Epler]

Here is the text of the license found at
> [2] https://github.com/source-foundry/Hack/blob/master/LICENSE.md

## License

Hack Copyright 2015, Christopher Simpkins with Reserved Font Name "Hack".

Bitstream Vera Sans Mono Copyright 2003 Bitstream Inc. and licensed under the 
Bitstream Vera License with Reserved Font Names "Bitstream" and "Vera"

DejaVu modifications of the original Bitstream Vera Sans Mono typeface have 
been committed to the public domain.



This Font Software is licensed under the Hack Open Font License v2.0 and the 
Bitstream Vera License.

These licenses are copied below.


### Hack Open Font License v2.0

(Version 1.0 - 06 September 2015)

(Version 2.0 - 27 September 2015)

Copyright 2015 by Christopher Simpkins. All Rights Reserved.

DEFINITIONS

"Author" refers to any designer, engineer, programmer, technical writer or 
other person who contributed to the Font Software.

PERMISSION AND CONDITIONS

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of 
the fonts accompanying this license ("Fonts") and associated source code, 
documentation, and binary files (the "Font Software"), to reproduce and 
distribute the modifications to the Bitstream Vera Font Software, including 
without limitation the rights to use, study, copy, merge, embed, modify, 
redistribute, and/or sell modified or unmodified copies of the Font Software, 
and to permit persons to whom the Font Software is furnished to do so, subject 
to the following conditions:

(1) The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in 
all modified and unmodified copies of the Font Software typefaces. These 
notices can be included either as stand-alone text files, human-readable 
headers or in the appropriate machine-readable metadata fields within text or 
binary files as long as those fields can be easily viewed by the user.

(2) The Font Software may be modified, altered, or added to, and in particular 
the designs of glyphs or characters in the Fonts may be modified and additional 
glyphs or characters may be added to the Fonts, only if the fonts are renamed 
to names not containing the word "Hack".

(3) Neither the Font Software nor any of its individual components, in original 
or modified versions, may be sold by itself.

TERMINATION

This license becomes null and void if any of the above conditions are not met.

THE FONT SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR 
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, 
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHT, PATENT, 
TRADEMARK, OR OTHER RIGHT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER BE LIABLE FOR 
ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER LIABILITY, INCLUDING ANY GENERAL, SPECIAL, 
INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF 
CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM, OUT OF THE USE OR INABILITY TO USE 
THE FONT SOFTWARE OR FROM OTHER DEALINGS IN THE FONT SOFTWARE.

Except as contained in this notice, the names of Christopher Simpkins and the 
Author(s) of the Font Software shall not be used to promote, endorse or 
advertise any modified version, except to acknowledge the contribution(s) of 
Christopher Simpkins and the Author(s) or with their explicit written 
permission.  For further information, contact: chris at sourcefoundry dot org.



### BITSTREAM VERA LICENSE

Copyright (c) 2003 by Bitstream, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Bitstream Vera is a 
trademark of Bitstream, Inc.

Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of 
the fonts accompanying this license ("Fonts") and associated documentation 
files (the "Font Software"), to reproduce and distribute the Font Software, 
including without limitation the rights to use, copy, merge, publish, 
distribute, and/or sell copies of the Font Software, and to permit persons to 
whom the Font Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following 
conditions:

The above copyright and trademark notices and this permission notice shall be 
included in all copies of one or more of the Font Software typefaces.

The Font Software may be modified, altered, or added to, and in particular the 
designs of glyphs or characters in the Fonts may be modified and additional 
glyphs or characters may be added to the Fonts, only if the fonts are renamed 
to names not containing either the words "Bitstream" or the word "Vera".

This License becomes null and void to the extent applicable to Fonts or Font 
Software that has been modified and is distributed under the "Bitstream Vera" 
names.

The Font Software may be sold as part of a larger software package but no copy 
of one or more of the Font Software typefaces may be sold by itself.

THE FONT SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR 
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, 
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT OF COPYRIGHT, PATENT, 
TRADEMARK, OR