Re: Bug#207932: Statement that all of Debian needs to be Free?
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 21:07:23 -0400 Glenn Maynard wrote: The Social Contract states that everything in Debian must be free, with the DFSG being the guidelines to determine whether a work is free. This has been discussed at extreme length, culminating in SC2004-003, which affirmed that everything in Debian must be free, regardless of whether it's labelled program, software, documentation, data, font, manifesto, speech, article or anything else. Streams of bits, regardless of content, must be freely modifiable, with the sole exception of license texts, or they can not be in Debian. Agreed, fully. I really hope we are not starting all over again with people shouting oh, but these are obviously free [or out of the scope of SC], even if unmodifiable, because they are not programs!, just with a simple s/not programs/neither programs, nor documentation/ :-( This, as you Glenn correctly pointed out, has been discussed to death before the GR's. -- :-( This Universe is buggy! Where's the Creator's BTS? ;-) .. Francesco Poli GnuPG Key ID = DD6DFCF4 Key fingerprint = C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgpLW7ebYe7zt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#207932: Statement that all of Debian needs to be Free?
Michael K. Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: They are out of the scope of the DFSG. They are neither programs nor documentation: they are speeches and articles which are logically non modifiable without the consent of their author. Whether they are around or not is irrelevant to the freeness of Emacs. IMHO, Jrme is right but for the wrong reasons. In many jurisdictions (especially France, but other parts of US law besides copyright have similar consequences), copyright license does not and cannot grant authority to misattribute or violate the integrity of an artistic or polemical work. These documents are not part of the work of authorship that is the Emacs program and documentation. They may be retained or removed; but they may not be arbitrarily modified. Personally, I would retain them as a courtesy to upstream; users are no more and no less free to modify or remove them than Debian is. The alternative -- to demand that all content other than license texts and other legal indicia must be arbitrarily modifiable in order to be DFSG-free -- is logically consistent but would require the removal of all remotely artistic or polemical works in the Debian archive. At last, someone with some bits of common sense here! Full Ack. -- Jrme Marant
Re: Bug#207932: Statement that all of Debian needs to be Free?
(Please respect MFT) On Fri, Jun 17, 2005 at 10:13:39PM +0200, Jrme Marant wrote: They are out of the scope of the DFSG. They are neither programs nor documentation: they are speeches and articles which are logically non modifiable without the consent of their author. Sorry, you're wrong. The Social Contract states that everything in Debian must be free, with the DFSG being the guidelines to determine whether a work is free. This has been discussed at extreme length, culminating in SC2004-003, which affirmed that everything in Debian must be free, regardless of whether it's labelled program, software, documentation, data, font, manifesto, speech, article or anything else. Streams of bits, regardless of content, must be freely modifiable, with the sole exception of license texts, or they can not be in Debian. The Social Contract needs to be changed then, if it leads to such a silliness. I don't feel this is an interesting line of debate; you're arguing as if you missed the thousands of messages leading up to and surrounding SC2004-003, and I don't feel compelled to repeat those discussions. Yes, please don't bother repeating those pointless discussions. The Social Contract and the DFSG apply to everything in Debian, not just the parts that are convenient to you. Just go away and find yourself another sandbox. You don't have any kind of authority upon us. -- Jrme Marant
Re: Bug#207932: Statement that all of Debian needs to be Free?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Social Contract needs to be changed then, if it leads to such a silliness. Yes. This is why we had months-long flames and we will continue to have them in the future. -- ciao, Marco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#207932: Statement that all of Debian needs to be Free?
On Sat, Jun 18, 2005 at 09:26:00AM +0200, Jrme Marant wrote: (Please respect MFT) I do. The message I replied to did not have an MFT header. The Social Contract needs to be changed then, if it leads to such a silliness. Then feel free to propose a General Resolution to change it. However, the issue was raised, discussed, and a General Resolution was passed disagreeing with you. Your opinion differs from Debian's opinion. Just go away and find yourself another sandbox. You don't have any kind of authority upon us. If this is your idea of productive conversation, then *plonk*. -- Glenn Maynard -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
