Re: Can a font with an unfree character be free?
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Mon, 14 May 2007, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 5/14/07, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering the fact that the actual symbol is a white wheelchair on a blue background, it's not clear that a black font would be a ^ derivative work of such a design. ^^^ I didn't think simply changing colors removed the original copyright. [emphasis added] If that is in fact what was done, it obviously doesn't. However, what is actually copyrighted is a specific representation of a person in a wheelchair, and the creation of derivative works thereof. It's not clear that all minimalistic representations of a person in a wheelchair would be derivative works of the ISA. And, considering the very restricted meaning of copying under copyright law, if I have a printout of the symbol and design a copy of it using a computer, then as far as copyright law goes it is not a derivative. It may be a breach of trademark... Cheers, Wol -- Anthony W. Youngman - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Can a font with an unfree character be free?
I apologize if this does not belong on this list, since it is not specifically related to Debian. The International Symbol of Access (the wheelchair symbol that's used all over the place), to the best of my knowledge, is unfree. Its conditions of use can be seen at http://www.dinf.ne.jp/doc/japanese/resource/other/z00014/z0001406_e.html . It's also a unicode codepoint. If a font includes this as a character, can it be free?
Re: Can a font with an unfree character be free?
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Nathan Edgars II wrote: The International Symbol of Access (the wheelchair symbol that's used all over the place), to the best of my knowledge, is unfree. Its conditions of use can be seen at http://www.dinf.ne.jp/doc/japanese/resource/other/z00014/z0001406_e.html It's also a unicode codepoint. That's the conditions of use of the ISA which is copyright by ICTA or whatever the UN group is now who holds the copyright. So long as the font character is not a derivative work of the copyrighted symbol, then the rules regarding its use do not apply. If a font includes this as a character, can it be free? Considering the fact that the actual symbol is a white wheelchair on a blue background, it's not clear that a black font would be a derivative work of such a design. Baring such a specific claim by ICTA or another copyright holder, there's no need to even address the issue. Don Armstrong -- The trouble with you, Ibid he said, is that you think you're the biggest bloody authority on everything -- Terry Pratchet _Pyramids_ p146 http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can a font with an unfree character be free?
On Mon, May 14, 2007 at 02:51:31AM -0400, Nathan Edges II wrote: [...] http://www.dinf.ne.jp/doc/japanese/resource/other/z00014/z0001406_e.html [...] If a font includes [the symbol of access wheelchair] as a character, can it be free? The character itself isn't non-free, but rather the character being used with the designated colors/directions: The Symbol shall always be used in the design and proportions approved by the Assembly, a reproduction of which shall be disseminated with this resolution. The color used for the Symbol shall be white on a dark blue background, to conform with the international road sign conventions, unless there are compelling reasons to use other colors. The figure should face to the right, unless there are directional reasons for it to face left. To be restricted, the symbol has to have the same proportions that were approved by the Assembly, it must be white on a dark blue background, and facing right. But this, I don't quite understand: No change in or addition to the Symbol design shall be permitted. The basic symbol may be used in conjunction with additional signs or text for directional or identification purposes, as long as they do not distort the integrity of the Symbol. By the symbol do they mean the basic wheelchair, or the whole thing with all of the colors? I'd try to contact someone and see what they mean by that, because otherwise I may be interpereting this wrong. If the restrictions are only places on the right-facing, white on blue wheelchair then it should be fine to redistribute. If by symbol they mean the basic wheelchair, then redistribution wouldn't fall under DFSG-free terms from what I can tell. -- http://digital-haze.net/~pobega/ - My Website If programmers deserve to be rewarded for creating innovative programs, by the same token they deserve to be punished if they restrict the use of these programs. - Richard Salmon -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can a font with an unfree character be free?
On 5/14/07, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering the fact that the actual symbol is a white wheelchair on a blue background, it's not clear that a black font would be a derivative work of such a design. I didn't think simply changing colors removed the original copyright.
Re: Can a font with an unfree character be free?
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 5/14/07, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering the fact that the actual symbol is a white wheelchair on a blue background, it's not clear that a black font would be a ^ derivative work of such a design. ^^^ I didn't think simply changing colors removed the original copyright. [emphasis added] If that is in fact what was done, it obviously doesn't. However, what is actually copyrighted is a specific representation of a person in a wheelchair, and the creation of derivative works thereof. It's not clear that all minimalistic representations of a person in a wheelchair would be derivative works of the ISA. Don Armstrong -- CNN/Reuters: News reports have filtered out early this morning that US forces have swooped on an Iraqi Primary School and detained 6th Grade teacher Mohammed Al-Hazar. Sources indicate that, when arrested, Al-Hazar was in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square and a calculator. US President George W Bush argued that this was clear and overwhelming evidence that Iraq indeed possessed weapons of maths instruction. http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can a font with an unfree character be free?
On 5/14/07, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, 14 May 2007, Nathan Edgars II wrote: On 5/14/07, Don Armstrong [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Considering the fact that the actual symbol is a white wheelchair on a blue background, it's not clear that a black font would be a ^ derivative work of such a design. ^^^ I didn't think simply changing colors removed the original copyright. [emphasis added] If that is in fact what was done, it obviously doesn't. However, what is actually copyrighted is a specific representation of a person in a wheelchair, and the creation of derivative works thereof. It's not clear that all minimalistic representations of a person in a wheelchair would be derivative works of the ISA. But a depiction with the same lines in the same place would be unfree, right? You'd have to basically start from scratch and draw a new wheelchair symbol to make it free?
Re: Can a font with an unfree character be free?
First off, we're not talking about free/non-free here; we're talking about who controls the copyright of a glyph in a font. The free/non-free nature of the glyph is dependent on how that work is licensed, not the copyright status of the work. On Tue, 15 May 2007, Nathan Edgars II wrote: But a depiction with the same lines in the same place would be unfree, right? Only if the depiction was a derivative work of the orignally copyrighted work. Only trademark protects against the convergence of unrelated works; copyright does not. You'd have to basically start from scratch and draw a new wheelchair symbol to make it free? The question is whether or not that has been done. In order to talk about that intelligently, we have to look at specific instances of the symbol's use in a specific font within a specific package and the process that resulted in creating the glyph. Don Armstrong -- If you have the slightest bit of intellectual integrity you cannot support the government. -- anonymous http://www.donarmstrong.com http://rzlab.ucr.edu -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
