Re: Bug#412063: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
Fabian Greffrath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] A quick glance showed me nothing that seemed to prevent downloading the data files from the ftp site, but it does bring up the question of whether the port of the main program was possible without violating [6][d] or the equivelent clause in the EULA for the non-sharewhare version of the game. (Assuming that a clause like [6][D] is in fact enforceable.) Please note that the source code hast been released on December 20, 2002. This is more than 8 years later than the release of the shareware version which contains the `VENDOR.DOC' file. The original source code is released under the terms of the GPL and can be found at ftp://ftp.3drealms.com/source/rottsource.zip/. Ok. then I see no problem there. There would have been no reverse engineering needed, and the GPL licence would end up overriding the original licence on the program (not the data, of course). Now, as for Debian, I suspect this package will need to be in contrib, but I'm sure you have already though about that. In other words, in my non-legal opinion, everything looks fine. IANAL IANADD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
package: wnpp severity: wishlist Package name : rott Version: 1.0 Upstream Author: Apogee Software, Ltd. URL: http://www.3drealms.com/rott/ (original) http://icculus.org/rott/ (Linux port) License: GPL Description: Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins Rise of the Triad is a high quality, fast scrolling first-person perspective 3D action game. It has destructive enemies and lots of them, an arsenal of weapons from simple pistols to missile launchers, life-preserving armor, traps and ambushes galore. In addition, Rise of the Triad puts most of the other DOOM wannabes to shame. . WARNING: Rise of the Triad features wanton and gratuitous violence! The package will install the GPL'ed game engine and then offer the user to automatically download the shareware data files from ftp.3drealms.com and install them into the filesystem (similar to `quake2-data' or `rocksndiamonds' packages). I have two questions addressed at the debian-legal team: (1) The shareware data files can be found at ftp://ftp.3drealms.com/share/1rott13.zip. Inside the zip file there is a file called `VENDOR.DOC' containing the copyright and licensing terms. As far as I understand the terms it is legally unobjective to automatically download and install the files as long as we do not actively redistribute them. Or are there any traps in the phrasing? (2) The game contains graphical violence. It has an RSAC rating of 4, whatever that means. However, the violence level is adjustable. To avoid problems (in countries that are very sensitive concerning graphical violence in computer games, e.g. Germany), should I hardcode the game to a lower violence level? By the way, the game is on the German `Index' (some kind of nasties list). That means, it must not be sold to underage persons and not even be advertised *in Germany*. However, Quake 2 and Doom are on that list, too. Any advise? Thank you very much! Cheers, Fabian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
Hi, Fabian Greffrath schrieb: By the way, the game is on the German `Index' (some kind of nasties list). That means, it must not be sold to underage persons and not even be advertised *in Germany*. However, Quake 2 and Doom are on that list, too. Any advise? That's an issue I tried to address here some time ago. I think the way to go is a new section of the distribution, comparable to non-US, maybe called adult. As it is now, I would not advise distributing Debian with these packages in Germany or other countries with comparable laws. See f.e. the OpenSUSE statement regarding this: Doom and other similar software is not included for legal reasons. The game itself and the promotion of the game is only allowed to persons of legal age or some versions are even indexed in some countries which are part of the European Union. We do want to stay out of those problems and therefor do not include it http://tr.opensuse.org/Package_Wishlist/Wishlist_Games OTOH, no measures have been taken by the authorities against Debian yet. I think the current strategy of ftp-masters is to ignore this issue until something happens, so this would be in favor of adding your package. Best, Michael Below -- Michael Below Rechtsanwalt www.judiz.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
Hi! * Michael Below [EMAIL PROTECTED] [070223 11:46]: That's an issue I tried to address here some time ago. I think the way to go is a new section of the distribution, comparable to non-US, maybe called adult. As it is now, I would not advise distributing Debian with these packages in Germany or other countries with comparable laws. Wouldn't the game need to contrib anyway (depending on non-free data)? Therefore the game is not part of Debians archive, nor would it end up on the official CDs. IMNAL, but I could think that this package quite safe. Yours sincerely, Alexander -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#412063: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
Fabian Greffrath [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I have two questions addressed at the debian-legal team:
(1) The shareware data files can be found at
ftp://ftp.3drealms.com/share/1rott13.zip. Inside the zip file there is
a file called `VENDOR.DOC' containing the copyright and licensing terms.
As far as I understand the terms it is legally unobjective to
automatically download and install the files as long as we do not
actively redistribute them. Or are there any traps in the phrasing?
That zip does not contain that file:
Archive: 1rott13.zip
Length Date TimeName
142412 08-01-95 13:30 INSTALL.EXE
3595834 08-01-95 13:30 ROTTSW13.SHR
504 08-01-95 13:30 FILE_ID.DIZ
---
3738750 3 files
In general, I can't see how the terms of 1rott13.zip can affect whether
or not the GPL'd rott downloads it automatically. It's up to the FTP
site owner to ban people if they object to downloading, IMO. What
people do after downloading is not our concern.
If appropriate, please send the text of VENDOR.DOC to debian-legal again
with the question.
(2) The game contains graphical violence. It has an RSAC rating of 4,
whatever that means. However, the violence level is adjustable. To avoid
problems (in countries that are very sensitive concerning graphical
violence in computer games, e.g. Germany), should I hardcode the game to
a lower violence level?
I think not, but I suspect it depends on your country.
By the way, the game is on the German `Index' (some kind of nasties
list). That means, it must not be sold to underage persons and not even
be advertised *in Germany*. However, Quake 2 and Doom are on that list,
too. Any advise?
German advertisers and distributors should already be aware of this
question. See bug #313159
Personally, I do not understand how that German Index is a workable law,
but I'm not selling or advertising such materials to young Germans.
--
MJR/slef
My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/
Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct
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Re: Bug#412063: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
That zip does not contain that file: Sorry, you are right. It is contained in the `ROTTSW13.SHR' file which is just another zip file. Find attached the full VENDOR.DOC. Rise of the Triad: The HUNT Begins Copyright 1994, 1995 Apogee Software, Ltd. P.O. Box 496389, Garland, TX 75049, TEL: 972-271-1765 (Apogee) BY COPYING, USING OR DISTRIBUTING THIS SHAREWARE PROGRAM, YOU INDICATE YOUR AGREEMENT TO THE TERMS OF THIS vendor.doc. = KEY POINTS = [*] If you want to distribute it in a retail location (such as on a rack), or as part of a hardware or software bundle, or on CD-ROM you must get PRIOR signed written permission from Apogee. Apogee reserves its right to withhold permission. [*] Everyone can -- and is encouraged! -- to copy, upload and generally pass around this Program without charging for it. [*] If you want to distribute it as provided in this Vendor.doc by catalog, advertisement, BBS, on-line service, or direct mail, no written permission is needed. Apogee highly recommends, however, that distribution be made from a copy from Apogee or from one of its authorized sources, such as our home BBS (Software Creations BBS: 508-365-2359) to prevent the sale of older versions. [*] All advertising of the Program must include Apogee in the description. [*] The Program is marked Shareware and contains episode #1. No right is given by this Vendor.Doc to copy, use or distribute any other version, including any version that is registered, or not marked shareware, or that contains any episode other than #1. == LICENSE == [1] DEFINITIONS: Program means Rise of the Triad and its related files, including this one. The Trademarks consists of Apogee, the Apogee comet logo, Rise of the Triad, and The HUNT Begins. [2] OWNERSHIP: Except to the extent expressly licensed, Apogee owns and reserves the exclusive right to distribute the Program, and to use the Trademarks in connection with it. Its content, layout and format are the property of Apogee to the extent permitted by law. [3] GRANT AND CONDITIONS: Apogee grants a non-exclusive license to distribute the Program on IBM compatible media under the Trademarks subject to the following conditions: [A] CONDITIONS FOR ALL DISTRIBUTION [1] All of the Program's files, including this one, as released by us must be included without modification. The following files must always be included to constitute a legal version for shareware distribution: � demo1_3 dmo 08-01-95 1:30p � demo2_3 dmo 08-01-95 1:30p � huntbgin rtc 08-01-95 1:30p � huntbgin rtl 08-01-95 1:30p � huntbgin wad 08-01-95 1:30p � modempck 08-01-95 1:30p � readme exe 08-01-95 1:30p � remote1 rts 08-01-95 1:30p � rott exe 08-01-95 1:30p � rotthelp exe 08-01-95 1:30p � rottipx exe 08-01-95 1:30p � rottser exe 08-01-95 1:30p � setupexe 08-01-95 1:30p � sndsetup exe 08-01-95 1:30p [2] No copyright or trademark information may be removed. [3] You must not [a] distribute any version of the Program with unauthorized changes, such as additional or different levels, or changed characters or mazes; or [b] characterize such versions as an add-on or extension of any Apogee product; or [c] distribute any unauthorized third party utility designed to alter any Apogee game, game level, game episode or saved game. [B] ADDITIONAL CONDITIONS IF YOU CHARGE: If your distribution involves a disk or other physical medium, you must also: [1] Clearly market the Program as shareware, which requires (among other things) using try before you buy or similar words on packaging for the Programs. [2] Include Apogee and the comet logo (we encourage use of the 4 color version) on the front cover of the package. [3] Include the your name, address and phone number on the packaging and in any added documentation. This can be imprinted on the package or may be in the form of a label affixed to the box, carton or folder. [4] Any description of the Program included in a re-sellers catalog, sales brochure, on special packaging or handouts, must include An Apogee Game, Released by Apogee or Published by Apogee if the word count of the description is more than 14 words in length. [5] Distribute copies only after the programs on newly created master diskettes have been thoroughly tested. Always use high quality media and duplication technology. [6] Try to sell only the most current version of the Program. [7] Although Apogee discourages the practice, you may add an installation routine if it does not interfere with the proper operation or installation of the Program. [8]
Re: Bug#412063: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
A quick glance showed me nothing that seemed to prevent downloading the data files from the ftp site, but it does bring up the question of whether the port of the main program was possible without violating [6][d] or the equivelent clause in the EULA for the non-sharewhare version of the game. (Assuming that a clause like [6][D] is in fact enforceable.) Please note that the source code hast been released on December 20, 2002. This is more than 8 years later than the release of the shareware version which contains the `VENDOR.DOC' file. The original source code is released under the terms of the GPL and can be found at ftp://ftp.3drealms.com/source/rottsource.zip/. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
On Fri, 23 Feb 2007 11:06:16 +0100 Fabian Greffrath wrote: [...] The package will install the GPL'ed game engine and then offer the user to automatically download the shareware data files from ftp.3drealms.com and install them into the filesystem (similar to `quake2-data' or `rocksndiamonds' packages). [...] I think that these situations are best handled by creating a game engine package (rott) and a separate data downloader package (rott-data). They both have to go in contrib, at best. The game engine package can be moved to main, as soon as a set of DFSG-free game data is found and packaged for main. -- http://frx.netsons.org/progs/scripts/refresh-pubring.html Need to refresh your keyring in a piecewise fashion? . Francesco Poli . GnuPG key fpr == C979 F34B 27CE 5CD8 DC12 31B5 78F4 279B DD6D FCF4 pgppINpZy0iOX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Bug#412063: ITP: rott -- Rise of the Triad: The HUNT begins
Fabian Greffrath wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED] That zip does not contain that file: Sorry, you are right. It is contained in the `ROTTSW13.SHR' file which is just another zip file. Find attached the full VENDOR.DOC. A quick glance showed me nothing that seemed to prevent downloading the data files from the ftp site, but it does bring up the question of whether the port of the main program was possible without violating [6][d] or the equivelent clause in the EULA for the non-sharewhare version of the game. (Assuming that a clause like [6][D] is in fact enforceable.) IANAL IANADD -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
