Re: Steelblue license

2000-11-01 Thread William T Wilson
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, Raul Miller wrote:

 In principle, this gives them the right to restrict use.  However,
 since restrictions on use contradict federal copyright law, I'm dubious.

So you think this portion of UCITA might be unenforceable in general then?

c.  Upon distribution, the source code of all modifications to the
Program must be made available free of charge to TCG as
specified on the Web page at
http://www.steelblue.com/modifications/ .
 
 Since this is subject to change, and since we can't guarantee that
 everyone who has access to the source can check this URL, I'm queasy
 about saying this meets DFSG.

So you're saying that this violates DFSG on grounds of the license not
being distributed with the program. :}

Hm.  Well, I can't really dispute that, unless TCG could be made to agree
to change it so that these terms were made part of the license rather than
located on a URL.

  5.  TERMINATION.  In the event of any default or failure of User to
...
 This makes 4.c., above, particularly nasty.

I still don't see the problem with this clause...



Re: Steelblue license

2000-11-01 Thread Raul Miller
On Tue, Oct 31, 2000 at 01:32:55PM -0500, Jeffry Smith wrote:
 5.  Governed under Maryland law (UCITA) (although it makes sense as a 
 Maryland corp, but it is UCITA).

In principle, this gives them the right to restrict use.  However,
since restrictions on use contradict federal copyright law, I'm dubious.

I'm also dubious about what this means in the international context.
[What happens if Maryland UCITA contradicts copyright law of foreign
government.  My guess is that the UCITA just wouldn't apply, which
makes this a non-issue for DFSG purposes.]

   c.  Upon distribution, the source code of all modifications to the
   Program must be made available free of charge to TCG as
   specified on the Web page at
   http://www.steelblue.com/modifications/ .

Since this is subject to change, and since we can't guarantee that
everyone who has access to the source can check this URL, I'm queasy
about saying this meets DFSG.

 5.  TERMINATION.  In the event of any default or failure of User to
 abide by the terms hereof, this license may be revoked by TCG
 without prior notice and all rights granted hereunder rescinded.
 In the event of such revocation, the Program and all copies
 thereof however stored and on all media, temporary and permanent,
 shall be returned to TCG or destroyed or otherwise disabled by
 User.  Upon request User shall provide sufficient evidence of
 compliance said obligation.

This makes 4.c., above, particularly nasty.

-- 
Raul



Steelblue license

2000-10-31 Thread Jeffry Smith
Steelblue claims their product is open source (Open Source
Definition is based on DFSG).   Below is their license from:
http://www.steelblue.com/sb/download/SteelBlue/latest/LICENSE.TXT

From their home page:  SteelBlue is an open-source Web application
server environment in which Web-database applications can be developed
completely in an extended HTML language.

The question is, does the below meet the DFSG?  Particularly since it
is:
1.  revocable
2.  Requires you to give them the source (although it does say
please at the site listed, so requires may be a bit harsh).
3.  Requires you to give them full rights to your mods (even sell
them, from what I read).
4.  Termination clause.
5.  Governed under Maryland law (UCITA) (although it makes sense as a 
Maryland corp, but it is UCITA).
6.  Up front, it states it governs right to use which may not be the
same as right to copy (GPL only governs copying, as you have an
automatic right to use under copyright)
7.  Their Copyright clause, which claims all rights, both copyright
and any other rights.
8.  The last paragraph is really cute:  This license is hereby made
open-source.

If it's not Open Source, what are the ramifications since they never
truly claim it is Open Source (capital letters)?

SteelBlue License (SBL)

Non-Recourse, Non-Exclusive Revocable License Agreement

The attached software application (Program) is owned exclusively by
Turner Consulting Group, Inc. (TCG), a Maryland corporation, and is
protected by United States copyright law and international treaty.
The right to use the Program for any and all purposes is subject to,
and by downloading, installing and/or using this software you
(sometimes referred to as User) accept all of the terms and
conditions set forth below.  The term Program shall include all
portions thereof, all versions, releases, upgrades, enhancements,
improvements, modifications, updates and all derivatives, as
determined by TCG to be part of the Program.  Nothing herein shall be
construed as an offer by TCG to supply any such additional materials
or services, or restrict TCG's sale or licensing to others of products
based upon the Program in whole or in part.  

1.  LICENSE.  The Program is provided or made available to User by TCG
on an open source and non-exclusive basis.  The Program and any
and all rights therein, may not be sold, transferred, sublicensed,
distributed or otherwise conveyed by you in any manner for any
reason, other than in compliance with the terms of this License.

2.  COPIES AND DISTRIBUTION.  The Program may be copied and installed
on an unlimited number of User's workstations, networks and
information systems.  The Program, in whole or in part, may be
distributed by User to others, provided that distribution

   (i) permits and enables further distribution; and 

   (ii) in every instance be accompanied by this License.  All users
and recipients shall remain subject to the terms and
conditions hereof.

3.  RESTRICTIONS.  Except in compliance with this License, the Program
may not be distributed, published, sublicensed or otherwise
disseminated or exploited by User or any other person or entity
without the prior written consent of TCG in each instance.  All
use of the Program, and all copies, correspondence, publications
and other materials used therewith, shall indicate in a prominent
manner that the Program is subject to this License and the rights
of TCG, and shall be accompanied by the restrictions set forth
herein.  The grant of the license of the Program does not include
the conveyance by TCG of any ownership right, title or other
interest.

4.  MODIFICATIONS.  Modifications of the Program may be made and
distributed only under the following conditions:

  a.  Modifications may not alter or remove any copyright notices in
  the Program with respect to TCG.

  b.  All distributed modifications to the Program shall immediately
  become subject to a permanent non-exclusive royalty-free right
  hereby granted to TCG to include such modifications in the
  Program as it may determine from time to time, and the
  unrestricted right to distribute such modification in all future
  versions of the Program, without obligation to User of any kind.

  c.  Upon distribution, the source code of all modifications to the
  Program must be made available free of charge to TCG as
  specified on the Web page at
  http://www.steelblue.com/modifications/ .

5.  TERMINATION.  In the event of any default or failure of User to
abide by the terms hereof, this license may be revoked by TCG
without prior notice and all rights granted hereunder rescinded.
In the event of such revocation, the Program and all copies
thereof however stored and on all media, temporary and permanent,
shall be returned to TCG or destroyed or otherwise disabled by
User.  Upon request User shall

Re: Steelblue license

2000-10-31 Thread Peter S Galbraith

Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:

  The question is, does the below meet the DFSG?  Particularly since it
  is:
  2.  Requires you to give them the source (although it does say
  please at the site listed, so requires may be a bit harsh).
 
 This is ok, it essentially states what the GPL implies, you
 have to release the source, and thus I can take it and put it
 into the upstream source, making your changes moot.

Not true.  Their license says you must give _them_ a copy of your
mods if you distribute your mods to a third party.  This is not
the same.

If I make a change and give my brother a copy, I must also give
them a copy.

  3.  Requires you to give them full rights to your mods (even sell
  them, from what I read).
 
 bsd / gpl allow this as well

GPL doesn't _do_ this.  This is like the QPL, right?
 
Peter