Re: Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-26 Thread Thomas Bushnell, BSG
Nick Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Tue, Dec 24, 2002 at 01:22:40AM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
  On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 20:36, Terry Hancock wrote:
  
   Do you mean by this that the US Copyright office does not recognize 
   bitmap 
   fonts as copyrightable work?  (If so, this would be good to know).
  
  The copyright office does not recognize fonts, period, as a
  copyrightable work.
 
 Worth pointing out also that whatever the US or any other jurisdiction
 recognises as copyright, Debian tries in general to respect the wishes
 of the creator regardless.

For certain things, not for others.  In the case of fonts, the point
is that there really is no creator, legally speaking.



Re: Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-24 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 20:36, Terry Hancock wrote:

 Do you mean by this that the US Copyright office does not recognize bitmap 
 fonts as copyrightable work?  (If so, this would be good to know).

The copyright office does not recognize fonts, period, as a
copyrightable work.

However, it does recognize copyright on computer programs; it can be
claimed that some font formats are creative works as computer programs
(see, e.g., Adobe Systems Inc. v. Southern Software Inc.), but bitmaps
are certainly not.

(Google searches on font copyright and Eltra Corp v. Ringer turn up
plenty of info, as well as the ravings of people mad and happy about it)


BTW: What are http://coder.com/creations/banner/adobe-copyright.html 
and http://coder.com/creations/banner/ibm-copyright.html


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Re: Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-24 Thread Nick Phillips
On Tue, Dec 24, 2002 at 01:22:40AM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
 On Mon, 2002-12-23 at 20:36, Terry Hancock wrote:
 
  Do you mean by this that the US Copyright office does not recognize bitmap 
  fonts as copyrightable work?  (If so, this would be good to know).
 
 The copyright office does not recognize fonts, period, as a
 copyrightable work.

Worth pointing out also that whatever the US or any other jurisdiction
recognises as copyright, Debian tries in general to respect the wishes
of the creator regardless.


Cheers,


Nick
-- 
Nick Phillips -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Be careful!  Is it classified?



Re: Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-23 Thread Anthony DeRobertis
On Wed, 2002-12-18 at 03:53, Zephaniah E. Hull wrote:

 Note, while this is filed against xfonts-75dpi, 

Aren't those bitmap fonts? If so, there is no copyright in the US at
least.



Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-18 Thread Zephaniah E. Hull
Severity: serious
Package: xfonts-75dpi

Note, while this is filed against xfonts-75dpi, it affects several of
the font packages generated from the xfree86 source package, feel free
to reassign to another package.

The two large groups in question are the Utopia (UT*) and the Lucida
(lu*) fonts.

The only license I can find on the Utopia fonts is in the font files
themselves:
COPYRIGHT Copyright (c) 1989, 1991 Adobe Systems Incorporated.  All Rights 
Reserved.

Obviously without something further we do not even have a license to
distribute them, hopefully I am simply missing a license somewhere that
gives us proper rights, however..

The license case for the Lucida fonts is a little more interesting.

In the font files is the following notice:

COMMENT  (c) Copyright Bigelow  Holmes 1986, 1985. Lucida is a registered
COMMENT  trademark of Bigelow  Holmes. See LEGAL NOTICE file for terms
COMMENT  of the license.

The contents of the file in question is below, what rights it gives is,
a very interesting question. It does not explicitly give permission to
modify, however it is vague enough that -legal should probably examine
it.
(Note, this is a /different/ license then the one Branden recently sent
BH a letter about.)

This is the LEGAL NOTICE pertaining to the Lucida fonts from Bigelow  Holmes:

NOTICE TO USER: The source code, including the glyphs or icons 
forming a par of the OPEN LOOK TM Graphic User Interface, on this 
tape and in these files is copyrighted under U.S. and international
laws. Sun Microsystems, Inc. of Mountain View, California owns
the copyright and has design patents pending on many of the icons. 
ATT is the owner of the OPEN LOOK trademark associated with the
materials on this tape. Users and possessors of this source code 
are hereby granted a nonexclusive, royalty-free copyright and 
design patent license to use this code in individual and 
commercial software. A royalty-free, nonexclusive trademark
license to refer to the code and output as OPEN LOOK compatible 
is available from ATT if, and only if, the appearance of the 
icons or glyphs is not changed in any manner except as absolutely
necessary to accommodate the standard resolution of the screen or
other output device, the code and output is not changed except as 
authorized herein, and the code and output is validated by ATT. 
Bigelow  Holmes is the owner of the Lucida (R) trademark for the
fonts and bit-mapped images associated with the materials on this 
tape. Users are granted a royalty-free, nonexclusive license to use
the trademark only to identify the fonts and bit-mapped images if, 
and only if, the fonts and bit-mapped images are not modified in any
way by the user. 


Any use of this source code must include, in the user documentation 
and internal comments to the code, notices to the end user as  
follows:


(c) Copyright 1989 Sun Microsystems, Inc. Sun design patents
pending in the U.S. and foreign countries. OPEN LOOK is a 
trademark of ATT. Used by written permission of the owners.


(c) Copyright Bigelow  Holmes 1986, 1985. Lucida is a registered 
trademark of Bigelow  Holmes. Permission to use the Lucida 
trademark is hereby granted only in association with the images 
and fonts described in this file.



SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC., ATT, AND BIGELOW  HOLMES 
MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY OF
THIS SOURCE CODE FOR ANY PURPOSE. IT IS PROVIDED AS IS 
WITHOUT EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY OF ANY KIND. 
SUN  MICROSYSTEMS, INC., ATT AND BIGELOW   HOLMES, 
SEVERALLY AND INDIVIDUALLY, DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES 
WITH REGARD TO THIS SOURCE CODE, INCLUDING ALL IMPLIED
WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL SUN MICROSYSTEMS,
INC., ATT OR BIGELOW  HOLMES BE LIABLE FOR ANY
SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES,
OR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER RESULTING FROM LOSS OF USE, DATA  
OR PROFITS, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF  CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE
OR OTHER TORTIOUS ACTION, ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION
WITH THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF THIS SOURCE CODE.

-- 
1024D/E65A7801 Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   92ED 94E4 B1E6 3624 226D  5727 4453 008B E65A 7801
CCs of replies from mailing lists are requested.

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Re: Two large groups of non-free fonts in main.

2002-12-18 Thread Henning Makholm
Scripsit Zephaniah E. Hull [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Severity: serious
 Package: xfonts-75dpi

Standard BTS/mailing list warning follows:

*NEVER* *EVER* crosspost directly between [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and mailing lists!

Doing this means that mailing list subscribers who just do a wide
reply to the posting will send their reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED],
thereby opening a *new* unrelated bug. That is Bad.

Others who feel inclined to respond to Zephaniah, please take note!

The Right way to do this is described in the Bug Tracking System
manual:
  
|   The right way to do this is to use the X-Debbugs-CC header. Add a line
|   like this to your message's mail header (not to the pseudo header with
|   the Package field):
|  X-Debbugs-CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Doing it the Right way also means that the copy that gets sent to the
mailing list will have the bug tracking number in the header, making
the following discussion on the mailing list easily archived in the BTS.

-- 
Henning Makholm   Larry wants to replicate all the time ... ah, no,
   all I meant was that he likes to have a bang everywhere.