Re: Prompt to install missing software?
John Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Another thought: doesn't Totem have some kind of 'codec finder'? Implemented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyCodecInstallation No idea what's the status about that in Debian. -- Gruesse/greetings, Reinhard Tartler, KeyID 945348A4 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
On 5/27/07, John Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found the original code in GNOME just pops up a message, see check_ntp_support in http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-system-tools/src/time/time-tool.c?rev=1.17view=markup This would mean that the changes are Ubuntu specific, which is understandable. I wasn't specific enough in my first reply, but I meant that you should check Ubuntu's source packages: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=namesversion=allexact=1keywords=gnome-system-tools I think the first version that had the automatic install functionality was either Dapper or Edgy. One other thing to watch out for is whether your users prefer su or sudo ( and gksu or gksudo), I'm not sure if there's a standardized way to check for this in Debian. The following seems mildly related: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandNotFoundMagic This is different, the packages don't get installed automatically in this case. To everyone else on this thread that somehow thinks this is a bad idea, you should also check out what time-admin does in Feisty. It's simply a prompt that pops up when you try to turn on ntp as a service, which tells you that you need ntp, and asks you if you want to install it. I'm not sure what that specific UI does if the user isn't allowed to sudo, but it can't be worse than not prompting at all. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
On Mon, May 28, 2007 at 01:24:44PM -0400, Simon wrote: On 5/27/07, John Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I found the original code in GNOME just pops up a message, see check_ntp_support in http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-system-tools/src/time/time-tool.c?rev=1.17view=markup This would mean that the changes are Ubuntu specific, which is understandable. I wasn't specific enough in my first reply, but I meant that you should check Ubuntu's source packages: http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=namesversion=allexact=1keywords=gnome-system-tools I think the first version that had the automatic install functionality was either Dapper or Edgy. One other thing to watch out for is whether your users prefer su or sudo ( and gksu or gksudo), I'm not sure if there's a standardized way to check for this in Debian. What we've settled on in Ubuntu is to use gksu, and allow the preference to be set in /etc/gksu.conf (sudo-mode). That way, it's transparent to applications. -- - mdz -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
I found the original code in GNOME just pops up a message, see check_ntp_support in http://cvs.gnome.org/viewcvs/gnome-system-tools/src/time/time-tool.c?rev=1.17view=markup The following seems mildly related: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommandNotFoundMagic But I wasn't able to locate anything for the NTP thing at this stage. Where's the right place to look for the source in this case? Cheers JP Simon wrote: At some point, the gnome-system-tools package did this in the time-admin application for ntp. I can't confirm if it still works the same way, since the UI appears to have changed in feisty, but I would assume so. You should try it with a fresh image of feisty, open time-admin (try to set the time, basically) and tell it to use ntp, it should automatically try to install it. I suggest grabbing the source package and figuring out how they did it. You could also look into the update manager or the app installer in Ubuntu, they both appear to launch Synaptic or something to perform installs for them. On 5/27/07, John Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have a PyGTK-based program that has an optional dependency on the package python-matplotlib. Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? What would be the best way of doing that from python, if such a thing exists? I believe I have seen this used somewhere but I don't know how it was done. Cheers JP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
I have a PyGTK-based program that has an optional dependency on the package python-matplotlib. Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? What would be the best way of doing that from python, if such a thing exists? That seems like too much work. Why not just document the optional dependencies. Additionally, if the features are that nice to have why not make the packages which provide the functionality Recommended? According to the policy Recommends declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. [1] Which IMO is clearly not the case here. Many users probably won't need that particular feature. Regards Ben [1] http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-relationships.html#s-binarydeps -- Please do not send any email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- all email not originating from the mailing list will be deleted. Use the reply to address instead. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
Benjamin Mesing wrote: I have a PyGTK-based program that has an optional dependency on the package python-matplotlib. Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? What would be the best way of doing that from python, if such a thing exists? That seems like too much work. Why not just document the optional dependencies. Additionally, if the features are that nice to have why not make the packages which provide the functionality Recommended? According to the policy Recommends declares a strong, but not absolute, dependency. The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. [1] Which IMO is clearly not the case here. Many users probably won't need that particular feature. Regards Ben I am aware of the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' thing. Many users are familiar with it, and know how to go and seek out and install a missing package. But this is about user experience. It just strikes me that there is a level of automation that would be really pretty simple to implement: click here to install the missing package. Then the user's experience is transformed from right. i have to stop what I'm doing and put on my sysadmin hat into ok, I'll just click this to download the plugin. I had something along the lines of gksu apt-get install python-matplotlib in mind, but I would like something that did the install bit with a GUI if possible. And it's just an idea; I don't want to do this unless it can be done in nice tidy way. Another thought: doesn't Totem have some kind of 'codec finder'? Cheers JP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
On Sun, 27 May 2007 18:04:55 +1000 John Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Recommends field should list packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations. [1] Which IMO is clearly not the case here. Many users probably won't need that particular feature. I am aware of the 'Recommends' and 'Suggests' thing. Many users are familiar with it, and know how to go and seek out and install a missing package. Then document this for those users of your package who are not familiar with Recommends. apt and aptitude can install recommended packages alongside dependencies by setting Recommends as 'important' - see man 5 apt.conf or man aptitude. You could document a single command that sets that apt option for that one run and brings in the recommended packages - normal apt-get upgrade will look after things after that. But this is about user experience. It just strikes me that there is a level of automation that would be really pretty simple to implement: click here to install the missing package. Then the user's experience is transformed from right. i have to stop what I'm doing and put on my sysadmin hat into ok, I'll just click this to download the plugin. If it IS a plugin - something that only this package can use and which is simply not in Debian but downloaded from some website, then a non-privileged folder should be used and installation is no more than downloading a file - ala iceweasel. That becomes quite a complex set of rules to prevent malware etc. You also have the problems of not being able to update and upgrade those plugins in any centralised Debian way so the application then has to take care of that as well. You could end up with a plugin handler that uses as much code as a small application, plus a website with SSL to provide the downloads. If it is a normal Debian package then it needs to be installed in the normal Debian way. That makes for a *consistent* user experience which is, IMHO, more important than making it one-click. -- Neil Williams = http://www.data-freedom.org/ http://www.nosoftwarepatents.com/ http://www.linux.codehelp.co.uk/ pgpq2e21bZiU6.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
Hi, Am Sonntag, 27. Mai 2007 06:17 schrieb John Pye: Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? What would be the best way of doing that from python, if such a thing exists? Frankly, the very first thing that comes to my mind about such a software: Stupid program, shut up and don't get in my way. If this feature is useful, use Recommends, period. You should also consider that a user may not have sysadmin rights and must go ask someone for this additional installation. If you are that person, how much would you like being pestered several times a day about such things? Additionally, what if I don't have a network connection at that moment? Then this turns from how nice, it asks me about additional stuff to great, I installed the package with all recommeded packages and still can't do what I want to do. Regards Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
John Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It just strikes me that there is a level of automation that would be really pretty simple to implement: click here to install the missing package. This makes the invalid assumption that the user who receives this dialogue box is in a position to install software. That's not the case in a great variety of use cases for Debian. -- \ Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a | `\ finite world is either a madman or an economist. -- Kenneth | _o__) Boulding | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 02:17:15PM +1000, John Pye wrote: Hi all, I have a PyGTK-based program that has an optional dependency on the package python-matplotlib. Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? a la auto-apt? Note: doesn't play well with bash_completion -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 02:17:15PM +1000, John Pye wrote: Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? I don't think anything like that does exist, but I thank you for pointing it out: I think having something like that in Debian would be useful. Sure suggests/recommends are already out there for similar reasons, but they are for package managers and for human admins that manually install packages. Users might well not be aware of them or even of what they mean. So I agree that an agreed upon mechanism able to spawn a package manager instance to install the missing packages would be useful. Some points for open discussion on this: - we need a fallback in case the user does not have the needed privileges to install the packages. IMO something like sorry, it seems you can't install the missing packages, please contact your local administration and ask him to install X, Y, and Z packages - we need to provide one instance for each environment we want it to work: the gksu solution mentioned in this thread might be ok for Gnome users but probably not for KDE/Xfce ones. Suggestions on what should be the corresponding implementations there? - we need a way to choose for the user among different package managers top-levels: apt-get/aptitude/synaptic/... Probably an update-alternatives like mechanism can be used? What would be the best way of doing that from python, if such a thing exists? So, no answer for this, but I hope in the future to be able to answer: just run debian-install-missing X Y Z. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science ... now what? [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ (15:56:48) Zack: e la demo dema ?/\All one has to do is hit the (15:57:15) Bac: no, la demo scema\/right keys at the right time signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 05:06:38PM +0200, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote: I don't think anything like that does exist, but I thank you for Sorry, a better target for this discussion would have been -devel. I've reposted there my reply, please follow-up there if interested in the discussion. Cheers. -- Stefano Zacchiroli -*- PhD in Computer Science ... now what? [EMAIL PROTECTED],debian.org,bononia.it} -%- http://www.bononia.it/zack/ (15:56:48) Zack: e la demo dema ?/\All one has to do is hit the (15:57:15) Bac: no, la demo scema\/right keys at the right time signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
On Sun, May 27, 2007 at 02:17:15PM +1000, John Pye wrote: Hi all, I have a PyGTK-based program that has an optional dependency on the package python-matplotlib. Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? What would be the best way of doing that from python, if such a thing exists? That seems like too much work. Why not just document the optional dependencies. Additionally, if the features are that nice to have why not make the packages which provide the functionality Recommended? Regards, -Roberto -- Roberto C. Sánchez http://people.connexer.com/~roberto http://www.connexer.com signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Prompt to install missing software?
At some point, the gnome-system-tools package did this in the time-admin application for ntp. I can't confirm if it still works the same way, since the UI appears to have changed in feisty, but I would assume so. You should try it with a fresh image of feisty, open time-admin (try to set the time, basically) and tell it to use ntp, it should automatically try to install it. I suggest grabbing the source package and figuring out how they did it. You could also look into the update manager or the app installer in Ubuntu, they both appear to launch Synaptic or something to perform installs for them. On 5/27/07, John Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I have a PyGTK-based program that has an optional dependency on the package python-matplotlib. Is there any way under Debian (and hopefully also Ubuntu) that I can trigger gtk-debi or something like that when the user requests to use the part of my program that depends on stuff they haven't installed yet? What would be the best way of doing that from python, if such a thing exists? I believe I have seen this used somewhere but I don't know how it was done. Cheers JP -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
