Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-04 Thread Marc Haber 
On Sun, Sep 04, 2016 at 09:21:21PM +0200, Jakub Wilk wrote:
> * Ben Finney , 2016-09-04, 17:40:
> >Marc Haber  writes:
> >>Not having been on #debian-mentors for a long time, what is the problem
> >>with helping people building local packages there, having the chance of
> >>giving them skills that can be of use in Debian proper at a later time?
> >
> >Since you haven't been on the channel for a long time, what is your
> >objection to creating a ‘#packaging’ channel to take the not-for-Debian
> >packaging chatter?
> 
> I didn't read what Mark wrote as an objection, but as an honest inquiry.

Yes, that was my intention.

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-04 Thread Jakub Wilk 

* Ben Finney , 2016-09-04, 17:40:

Marc Haber  writes:
Not having been on #debian-mentors for a long time, what is the 
problem with helping people building local packages there, having the 
chance of giving them skills that can be of use in Debian proper at a 
later time?


Since you haven't been on the channel for a long time, what is your 
objection to creating a ‘#packaging’ channel to take the not-for-Debian 
packaging chatter?


I didn't read what Mark wrote as an objection, but as an honest inquiry.

I'm curious to know others' opinions, too.

--
Jakub Wilk

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-04 Thread Marc Haber 
On Sun, Sep 04, 2016 at 05:40:12PM +1000, Ben Finney wrote:
> Marc Haber  writes:
> > Not having been on #debian-mentors for a long time, what is the
> > problem with helping people building local packages there, having the
> > chance of giving them skills that can be of use in Debian proper at a
> > later time?
> 
> Since you haven't been on the channel for a long time, what is your
> objection to creating a ‘#packaging’ channel to take the not-for-Debian
> packaging chatter?

I have been cutting down on my IRC presence. If I were still on
#mentors, I would most probably not burden myself with just another
IRC channel.

Greetings
Marc, who should actually unsubscribe from the -mentors mailing list
as well

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-04 Thread Ben Finney 
humbert.olivie...@free.fr writes:

> If I would have been flicked on an common-ground #packaging channel
> which *obviously* will not have the same level of competences that
> #mentors have

What basis do you have for that claim?

There are many people already on IRC who have demonstrated a sustained
willingness to help with not-for-Debian packaging work. The ‘#packaging’
channel is a forum where that is welcome.

So that seems to be solid evidence that a lot of people are already
available to join ‘#packaging’ with the expertise you describe. Indeed,
the demonstrated willingness of many such people is, I think, one reason
the channel was created.

-- 
 \   “We have met the enemy and he is us.” —Walt Kelly, _Pogo_ |
  `\1971-04-22 |
_o__)  |
Ben Finney

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-04 Thread humbert . olivier . 1 
> what is the problem with helping people building local packages
> there, having the chance of giving them skills that can be of use
> in Debian proper at a later time?

100% with this remark. I've been starting to package .deb a few months ago
for a linux audio based-on-debian (basicaly an external repo) and I've been
asking question a few time things at #debian-mentor. Those questions, and
more over, their answers have been helping me learning some of the ropes of
the debian packaging that I didn't find and/or understand when reading the
maint guide or other online ressources.

This allowed me to start working *properly* on a packaging which is expected
to get in debian official repo when done.

If I would have been flicked on an common-ground #packaging channel which
*obviously* will not have the same level of competences that #mentors have,
I wouldn't have certainly be able to learn efficiently deb-packaging things.
For my case, it would have been a loss.

Let's says as well that I'm using my external repo to test stuff and I'm 
reporting
oftenly improvements to packages to the BTS. So the "barrier" between "what is
debian, and what is not debian" appears to be vague here.

Enjoying this communication to say thanks to the people who have been helping 
me on
#mentors in answering my questions and pointing me in the right direction when 
it
was needed.

Olivier

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-04 Thread Ben Finney 
Paul Wise  writes:

> On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Vincent Bernat wrote:
>
> > Why not #debian-packaging?
>
> It is unrelated to Debian so includes no debian- prefix.

More to the point, the ‘debian-’ prefix implies that it is specifically
for the Debian Project.

As I understand it, the purpose of the ‘#packaging’ channel is to avoid
that constraint: unlike a channel whose name is ‘deb-’ or ‘debian-’
prefixed, any OFTC-appropriate packaging discussion is appropriate
there.

-- 
 \   “Liberal capitalism is not at all the Good of humanity. Quite |
  `\the contrary; it is the vehicle of savage, destructive |
_o__) nihilism.” —Alain Badiou |
Ben Finney

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-04 Thread Ben Finney 
Marc Haber  writes:

> Not having been on #debian-mentors for a long time, what is the
> problem with helping people building local packages there, having the
> chance of giving them skills that can be of use in Debian proper at a
> later time?

Since you haven't been on the channel for a long time, what is your
objection to creating a ‘#packaging’ channel to take the not-for-Debian
packaging chatter?

-- 
 \ “Unix is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, |
  `\Windows is a shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus.” —Peter |
_o__)H. Coffin |
Ben Finney

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-03 Thread Marc Haber 
On Sun, Sep 04, 2016 at 09:52:55AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 5:03 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > It sounds like being related to deb packaging only, though.  Unless you want
> > to deal with rpm/portage/etc too.
> 
> I wouldn't object to other non-distro packaging being discussed there.

Considering that I keep constantly getting project offers to package
windows software for some windows-based software distribution system
because my Xing profile matches "packaging", I think this channel name
is still a bad idea.

Not having been on #debian-mentors for a long time, what is the
problem with helping people building local packages there, having the
chance of giving them skills that can be of use in Debian proper at a
later time?

Greetings
Marc

-- 
-
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Leimen, Germany|  lose things."Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
Nordisch by Nature |  How to make an American Quilt | Fax: *49 6224 1600421

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-03 Thread Paul Wise 
On Sun, Sep 4, 2016 at 5:03 AM, Adam Borowski wrote:

> It sounds like being related to deb packaging only, though.  Unless you want
> to deal with rpm/portage/etc too.

I wouldn't object to other non-distro packaging being discussed there.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-03 Thread Adam Borowski 
On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 08:25:01PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Vincent Bernat wrote:
> > Why not #debian-packaging?
> 
> It is unrelated to Debian so includes no debian- prefix.

It sounds like being related to deb packaging only, though.  Unless you want
to deal with rpm/portage/etc too.

-- 
Second "wet cat laying down on a powered on box-less SoC on the desk" close
shave in a week.  Protect your ARMs, folks!

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-03 Thread Paul Wise 
On Sat, Sep 3, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Vincent Bernat wrote:

> Why not #debian-packaging?

It is unrelated to Debian so includes no debian- prefix.

-- 
bye,
pabs

https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise

Re: New #packaging IRC channel

2016-09-03 Thread Vincent Bernat 
 ❦  3 septembre 2016 03:49 CEST, Paul Wise  :

> There have been some folks who aren't satisfied with the level of
> signal to noise on the #debian-mentors IRC channel, mainly around
> people joining who are not aiming at creating policy compliant packages
> for upload to the Debian archive. People looking for help with private
> packaging, packaging for derivatives, packaging for their external
> repos and so on. As a result I've created the #packaging channel on
> OFTC to help such folks and reduce the noise on #debian-mentors.
> If you don't mind helping such folks out, please join us!
> If you have such questions, please join #packaging instead.

Why not #debian-packaging?
-- 
Anyone who has had a bull by the tail knows five or six more things
than someone who hasn't.
-- Mark Twain


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