Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-10-06 Thread Stefan Ott
Hi

On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 18:07, Tobias Hansen
tobias.han...@physik.uni-hamburg.de wrote:

 Any feedback would be highly welcome.

 Hi,

 I just had to change the album names of 200 files from different sources. If
 you edit tags of so many mp3s, there are always some files with problems. I
 used your newest version of id3v2 and it worked very well. Even where the
 tag could not be read or changed by the tool (maybe it was ape tags or
 something) and other tools didn't succeed, using id3v2 to remove the tag and
 then write a new one worked. I'll let you know if I encounter a problem with
 the tool in the future.

Great, thank you very much for testing it!

Since it seems to work for you (and me), I'll try to put together an
updated package to be uploaded to experimental in order to get more
feedback from a wider audience.

cheers
-- 
Stefan Ott
http://www.ott.net/

You are not Grey Squirrel?


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-09-28 Thread Tobias Hansen

Am 25.09.2011 18:12, schrieb Stefan Ott:

I'm asking because I think it's going to be non-trivial to find people
who are willing to test a new tool that solves a problem which, for
many people, doesn't seem to be extremely urgent.

Anyway, if somebody on this list is interested in trying it out, you
can get the current source code at http://src.ott.net/id3v2/ - most
things (the build system, the included debian/ directory etc.) are
still identical to upstream id3v2 but would of course be cleaned up if
I were to actually try and do this right.

Any feedback would be highly welcome.


Hi,

I just had to change the album names of 200 files from different 
sources. If you edit tags of so many mp3s, there are always some files 
with problems. I used your newest version of id3v2 and it worked very 
well. Even where the tag could not be read or changed by the tool (maybe 
it was ape tags or something) and other tools didn't succeed, using 
id3v2 to remove the tag and then write a new one worked. I'll let you 
know if I encounter a problem with the tool in the future.


Best regards,
Tobias


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-09-25 Thread Stefan Ott
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 01:54, Paul Wise p...@debian.org wrote:

 Draining the audio file tag reading swamp can only be a good idea.

 Please get some more testing done (by debian-user or where-ever)
 before you embark on this project.

Do you think it would be a reasonable approach to put together a
working version of this and upload it to experimental? Or should I try
to focus in finding testers outside of Debian?

I'm asking because I think it's going to be non-trivial to find people
who are willing to test a new tool that solves a problem which, for
many people, doesn't seem to be extremely urgent.

Anyway, if somebody on this list is interested in trying it out, you
can get the current source code at http://src.ott.net/id3v2/ - most
things (the build system, the included debian/ directory etc.) are
still identical to upstream id3v2 but would of course be cleaned up if
I were to actually try and do this right.

Any feedback would be highly welcome.

cheers
-- 
Stefan Ott
http://www.ott.net/

You are not Grey Squirrel?


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-09-25 Thread Andres Mejia
On Sun, Sep 25, 2011 at 12:12 PM, Stefan Ott ste...@ott.net wrote:
 On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 01:54, Paul Wise p...@debian.org wrote:

 Draining the audio file tag reading swamp can only be a good idea.

 Please get some more testing done (by debian-user or where-ever)
 before you embark on this project.

 Do you think it would be a reasonable approach to put together a
 working version of this and upload it to experimental? Or should I try
 to focus in finding testers outside of Debian?

 I'm asking because I think it's going to be non-trivial to find people
 who are willing to test a new tool that solves a problem which, for
 many people, doesn't seem to be extremely urgent.

 Anyway, if somebody on this list is interested in trying it out, you
 can get the current source code at http://src.ott.net/id3v2/ - most
 things (the build system, the included debian/ directory etc.) are
 still identical to upstream id3v2 but would of course be cleaned up if
 I were to actually try and do this right.

 Any feedback would be highly welcome.

 cheers
 --
 Stefan Ott
 http://www.ott.net/

 You are not Grey Squirrel?


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It seems more likely the maintainers of the original id3 project are
no longer active, instead of outright ignoring you. If you check their
VCS repository, they haven't been active for at least 2 years.

If as you say they haven't respond to you after several months, then I
would assume they won't be responding at all. In this case, I don't
see the harm in taking over the project, especially if you are making
improvements to it.

An upload to experimental is fine. If you think you have a release
that is production ready, an upload to unstable should be done
instead.

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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-09-22 Thread Stefan Ott
Hello everyone

On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 22:56, Andrew O. Shadoura bugzi...@tut.by wrote:
 You can also drop libid3 as it is now and write a wrapper around some
 better ID3 tagging library that has the same (or compatible) interface
 as libid3. Also, I'd merge id3 and id3v2 into one package, or even
 one binary, which would behave differently depending on its argv[0].

Well, here we are, several months later. I have since rewritten id3v2
to use taglib instead of libid3 and it seems to work reasonably well
[1]. I have informed upstream about my work but haven't received any
feedback so far. I thus assume that they are not particularly
interested in maintaining a thing that now consists of mostly my code
- I can't really blame them for that.

I also contacted several debian package maintainers whose packages use
libid3 and sent some patches along but so far without a whole lot of
success either. I guess they have more pressing things to worry about.

What this leaves me with, however, is an AFAICT working version of
id3v2 with support for id3v2.4 tags and nobody using it. After
re-reading this thread (and the last message in particular) I have now
come up with a cunning plan (which would probably have been obvious
from the very beginning to a greater mind): as I took over upstream
development of id3 [2] when I adopted the package, I'm thinking of
(ab)using that project for my id3v2 fork and replacing the debian id3
and id3v2 packages with this great new hopefully-working thing,
probably calling the new package id3 again. Once that is done, I
intend to orphan libid3 to make it obvious to everyone who still uses
it that they should seriously consider switching to something else
instead.

I realize that replacing a perfectly working little tool like id3 with
my mostly untested id3v2 fork might not be the nicest thing to do, but
at the moment it's the best solution I can come up with. Thus I was
wondering if any of you have any comments on this. Reasonble idea? The
most stupid thing you've heard in a while? Something in between? Any
feedback would be welcome.

[1] http://src.ott.net/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=id3v2;a=summary
[2] http://id3.googlecode.com/

cheers
-- 
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http://www.ott.net/

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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-09-22 Thread Paul Wise
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:48 AM, Stefan Ott wrote:

 I realize that replacing a perfectly working little tool like id3 with
 my mostly untested id3v2 fork might not be the nicest thing to do, but
 at the moment it's the best solution I can come up with. Thus I was
 wondering if any of you have any comments on this. Reasonble idea? The
 most stupid thing you've heard in a while? Something in between? Any
 feedback would be welcome.

Draining the audio file tag reading swamp can only be a good idea.

Please get some more testing done (by debian-user or where-ever)
before you embark on this project.

-- 
bye,
pabs

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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-05-25 Thread Andrew O. Shadoura
Hello,

On Wed, 27 Apr 2011 18:10:35 +0200
Stefan Ott ste...@ott.net wrote:

 - Port id3v2 to libid3tag [5]. This is a different id3 tagging library
 which supports v2.4 tags. I did some work in this direction but I
 realized that this would require major modifications to id3v2 since
 it's closely modeled around libid3. Also, some modifications to
 libid3tag would be required to support all the current features of the
 id3v2 program. My current estimate is that the work required for a
 complete port of id3v2 would be close to rewriting it from scratch and
 would result in a program that hardly shares any code with the current
 id3v2 tool.

You can also drop libid3 as it is now and write a wrapper around some
better ID3 tagging library that has the same (or compatible) interface
as libid3. Also, I'd merge id3 and id3v2 into one package, or even
one binary, which would behave differently depending on its argv[0].

-- 
WBR, Andrew


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-30 Thread Stefan Ott
Hi

On Sat, Apr 30, 2011 at 00:44, Craig Small csm...@debian.org wrote:
 Hello Stefan,
  As someone who has been in your situation many times (I look after more
 orphans than an animal shelter) you do need to think about the longer
 term. I took over psmisc in 2000, for example.

 I saw some suggested you make the library a basic shim to the currently
 developed one and that's probably a good compromise if it doesn't look
 like too much work.  The ideal would be for programs to use a supported
 library.  I would say that the library change would be about the same
 effort as the command-line one but there's more ongoing support.

 It's the ongoing work that you need to consider.  Also I wonder how
 many of the other programs know the id3 library state.  I was actually
 looking for an id3 tagger for a program of mine and wasn't aware.

Thanks, good point. I guess I should contact and inform the
maintainers of other packages that use libid3 and see what they think,
i.e. ask whether they think switching to another library would be
possible without too much work.

cheers
-- 
Stefan Ott
http://www.ott.net/

You are not Grey Squirrel?


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-29 Thread Craig Small
Hello Stefan,
 As someone who has been in your situation many times (I look after more
orphans than an animal shelter) you do need to think about the longer
term. I took over psmisc in 2000, for example.

I saw some suggested you make the library a basic shim to the currently
developed one and that's probably a good compromise if it doesn't look
like too much work.  The ideal would be for programs to use a supported
library.  I would say that the library change would be about the same
effort as the command-line one but there's more ongoing support.

It's the ongoing work that you need to consider.  Also I wonder how
many of the other programs know the id3 library state.  I was actually
looking for an id3 tagger for a program of mine and wasn't aware.

 - Craig
-- 
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Debian GNU/Linux  http://www.debian.org/   csmall at : debian.org
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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-28 Thread Adam Borowski
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 09:08:42AM +0800, Paul Wise wrote:
 I also that there are quite a few id3 related command-line tools and
 libraries in Debian, it would be nice to unify all of those into one
 library

This makes the command line tool redundant, which is an argument for
removal.  Not a strong one, though -- to migrate to the competition, I'd
have to change several lines in one of my private mp3 management scripts
which is unnecessary work for me :p

 In case you are thinking of dropping libid3, the following are the
 reverse deps and reverse build-deps that would need to be ported or
 dropped. You might want to talk to their maintainers and upstreams:

[15 packages]
But this is an argument to keep it.  Porting 15 packages to something else
would be quite a bit of work.

However, what if you made not the command line tool but the library a thin
wrapper over a competing one?  That would require porting just once.

-- 
1KB // Microsoft corollary to Hanlon's razor:
//  Never attribute to stupidity what can be
//  adequately explained by malice.


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-28 Thread Andres Mejia
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Paul Wise p...@debian.org wrote:
 Since upstream is effectively dead, for Debian's purposes, you have
 the same responsibilities as upstream.

 Given the above, why not take over the upstream project. The mailing
 list still seems active so theoretically upstream could give you admin
 access to the sourceforge project and you could work on the code there
 and produce new releases. At the same time you could invite the
 maintainers of id3v2/libid3 in other distros (run whohas to find them)
 to join upstream and merge their patches so that you won't be alone.

 I can't really see a right answer here, everything requires a lot of
 work or is a suboptimal solution.

 I also that there are quite a few id3 related command-line tools and
 libraries in Debian, it would be nice to unify all of those into one
 library:

 http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=id3

 You might want to mail the maintainers and upstreams of all the
 relevant ones, some might be willing to join libid3 upstream.

 In case you are thinking of dropping libid3, the following are the
 reverse deps and reverse build-deps that would need to be ported or
 dropped. You might want to talk to their maintainers and upstreams:

 # Broken Depends:
 clam: libclam1.4 [alpha amd64 armel i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390]
 djplay: djplay [alpha amd64 armel hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64
 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc]
 easytag: easytag
 gmediaserver: gmediaserver
 id3v2: id3v2
 intone: intone [alpha amd64 armel hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64
 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc]
 kid3: kid3
      kid3-qt
 liblicense: liblicense3
 ripperx: ripperx
 splay: splay [alpha armel hurd-i386 i386 powerpc]
 tagtool: tagtool

 # Broken Build-Depends:
 clam: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 djplay: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 easytag: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 flac: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 gmediaserver: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 id3v2: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 intone: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 iripdb: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-5)
 kid3: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-4.2)
 kwave: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-4.2)
 liblicense: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 ripperx: libid3-dev
 splay: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 tagtool: libid3-3.8.3-dev

 --
 bye,
 pabs

 http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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I believe taglib is worth a mention here too. See [1]. Aside from id3
tags, taglib supports many other tag formats. Also, taglib upstream
seems much more active.

1. http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/taglib.html

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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-28 Thread Stefan Ott
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:29, Adam Borowski kilob...@angband.pl wrote:

 In case you are thinking of dropping libid3, the following are the
 reverse deps and reverse build-deps that would need to be ported or
 dropped. You might want to talk to their maintainers and upstreams:

 [15 packages]
 But this is an argument to keep it.  Porting 15 packages to something else
 would be quite a bit of work.

True

 However, what if you made not the command line tool but the library a thin
 wrapper over a competing one?  That would require porting just once.

Someone also suggested this on IRC last night and I actually like the
idea, thanks!

cheers
-- 
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http://www.ott.net/

You are not Grey Squirrel?


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-28 Thread Stefan Ott
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:23, Andres Mejia mcita...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Paul Wise p...@debian.org wrote:
 Since upstream is effectively dead, for Debian's purposes, you have
 the same responsibilities as upstream.

 Given the above, why not take over the upstream project. The mailing
 list still seems active so theoretically upstream could give you admin
 access to the sourceforge project and you could work on the code there
 and produce new releases. At the same time you could invite the
 maintainers of id3v2/libid3 in other distros (run whohas to find them)
 to join upstream and merge their patches so that you won't be alone.

 I can't really see a right answer here, everything requires a lot of
 work or is a suboptimal solution.

 I also that there are quite a few id3 related command-line tools and
 libraries in Debian, it would be nice to unify all of those into one
 library:

 http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=id3

 You might want to mail the maintainers and upstreams of all the
 relevant ones, some might be willing to join libid3 upstream.

 In case you are thinking of dropping libid3, the following are the
 reverse deps and reverse build-deps that would need to be ported or
 dropped. You might want to talk to their maintainers and upstreams:

 # Broken Depends:
 clam: libclam1.4 [alpha amd64 armel i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390]
 djplay: djplay [alpha amd64 armel hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64
 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc]
 easytag: easytag
 gmediaserver: gmediaserver
 id3v2: id3v2
 intone: intone [alpha amd64 armel hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64
 kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc]
 kid3: kid3
      kid3-qt
 liblicense: liblicense3
 ripperx: ripperx
 splay: splay [alpha armel hurd-i386 i386 powerpc]
 tagtool: tagtool

 # Broken Build-Depends:
 clam: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 djplay: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 easytag: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 flac: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 gmediaserver: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 id3v2: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 intone: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 iripdb: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-5)
 kid3: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-4.2)
 kwave: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-4.2)
 liblicense: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 ripperx: libid3-dev
 splay: libid3-3.8.3-dev
 tagtool: libid3-3.8.3-dev

 --
 bye,
 pabs

 http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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 I believe taglib is worth a mention here too. See [1]. Aside from id3
 tags, taglib supports many other tag formats. Also, taglib upstream
 seems much more active.

 1. http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/taglib.html

Very nice, thanks, I'll have a closer look at taglib. I like the idea
of having active upstream development! :)

cheers
-- 
Stefan Ott
http://www.ott.net/

You are not Grey Squirrel?


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-28 Thread Miguel Landaeta
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Andres Mejia mcita...@gmail.com wrote:
 I believe taglib is worth a mention here too. See [1]. Aside from id3
 tags, taglib supports many other tag formats. Also, taglib upstream
 seems much more active.

 1. http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/taglib.html

It also worth to mention python-mutagen.
http://packages.qa.debian.org/m/mutagen.html

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What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-27 Thread Stefan Ott
Hello my fellow maintainers and DDs

I have a question concerning two of my packages: I am maintaining
id3v2 [1] and libid3 [2]. For those unfamiliar with them, id3v2 is a
simple command-line tool to manage ID3 tags and libid3 is the library
behind it. Now, those packages suffer from some major issues:

- The library (and thus the tool) cannot handle version 2.4 ID3 tags
(they only support version 2.3 of the standard - a rather outdated
version).
- Partly as a consequence of the lack of v2.4 support, Unicode tags
are broken. Most of the remaining bug reports are related to this [3]
[4].
- Upstream development for both packages is pretty much dead.

When I originally adapted the packages, my intention was to fix this -
so far I failed miserably, partly because I'm not sure how to approach
the problem. My current ideas are:

- Port id3v2 to libid3tag [5]. This is a different id3 tagging library
which supports v2.4 tags. I did some work in this direction but I
realized that this would require major modifications to id3v2 since
it's closely modeled around libid3. Also, some modifications to
libid3tag would be required to support all the current features of the
id3v2 program. My current estimate is that the work required for a
complete port of id3v2 would be close to rewriting it from scratch and
would result in a program that hardly shares any code with the current
id3v2 tool.
- Fix libid3 to support v2.4 tags and Unicode. This would probably
only require minor changes to id3v2, but it would introduce a
significant delta between the Debian version of libid3 and upstream,
making me the de-facto upstream for the library. Also, this would mean
a lot of work to basically duplicate the other id3 tag library
(libid3tag).
- Drop id3v2 and replace it with a wrapper around one of the other
command-line id3 taggers. This would however leave the broken
library in the repository since other packages also use it. Also, I
haven't actually investigated the alternatives. One possibly
interesting candidate is eyed3 [6] but since this is a python
application, that would introduce a whole lot of new dependencies for
the users of id3v2.

My personal goal for wheezy is to fix this mess, but since none of the
solutions I can currently think of convince me, I'd like to get some
input from other package maintainers. What would you do in a similar
situation? Do you have other ideas than the ones mentioned above? Any
input would be highly appreciated.

[1] http://packages.debian.org/sid/id3v2
[2] http://packages.debian.org/sid/libid3-3.8.3-dev
[3] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?pkg=id3v2;dist=unstable
[4] 
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?ordering=normal;archive=0;src=id3lib3.8.3;dist=unstable;repeatmerged=0
[5] http://packages.debian.org/sid/libid3tag0
[6] http://packages.debian.org/sid/eyed3

cheers
-- 
Stefan Ott
http://www.ott.net/

You are not Grey Squirrel?


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Re: What to do about the situation with id3v2

2011-04-27 Thread Paul Wise
Since upstream is effectively dead, for Debian's purposes, you have
the same responsibilities as upstream.

Given the above, why not take over the upstream project. The mailing
list still seems active so theoretically upstream could give you admin
access to the sourceforge project and you could work on the code there
and produce new releases. At the same time you could invite the
maintainers of id3v2/libid3 in other distros (run whohas to find them)
to join upstream and merge their patches so that you won't be alone.

I can't really see a right answer here, everything requires a lot of
work or is a suboptimal solution.

I also that there are quite a few id3 related command-line tools and
libraries in Debian, it would be nice to unify all of those into one
library:

http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=id3

You might want to mail the maintainers and upstreams of all the
relevant ones, some might be willing to join libid3 upstream.

In case you are thinking of dropping libid3, the following are the
reverse deps and reverse build-deps that would need to be ported or
dropped. You might want to talk to their maintainers and upstreams:

# Broken Depends:
clam: libclam1.4 [alpha amd64 armel i386 ia64 mips mipsel powerpc s390]
djplay: djplay [alpha amd64 armel hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64
kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc]
easytag: easytag
gmediaserver: gmediaserver
id3v2: id3v2
intone: intone [alpha amd64 armel hppa i386 ia64 kfreebsd-amd64
kfreebsd-i386 mips mipsel powerpc s390 sparc]
kid3: kid3
  kid3-qt
liblicense: liblicense3
ripperx: ripperx
splay: splay [alpha armel hurd-i386 i386 powerpc]
tagtool: tagtool

# Broken Build-Depends:
clam: libid3-3.8.3-dev
djplay: libid3-3.8.3-dev
easytag: libid3-3.8.3-dev
flac: libid3-3.8.3-dev
gmediaserver: libid3-3.8.3-dev
id3v2: libid3-3.8.3-dev
intone: libid3-3.8.3-dev
iripdb: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-5)
kid3: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-4.2)
kwave: libid3-3.8.3-dev (= 3.8.3-4.2)
liblicense: libid3-3.8.3-dev
ripperx: libid3-dev
splay: libid3-3.8.3-dev
tagtool: libid3-3.8.3-dev

-- 
bye,
pabs

http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise


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