Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On 02/27/2013 06:41 AM, Paul Wise wrote: Bah, I need to read before sending. Very nice response Paul, I think it's worth adding to FAQ: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq#Why_is_it_so_hard_to_find_sponsor.3F I've updated What happens if I can't find a sponsor as well. cheers, Tomek -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/513b3b86.7050...@gmail.com
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:21 PM, Charles Plessy ple...@debian.org wrote: Hi Lenz, Cheers with time, DDs tend to meet loved ones, i have too, also I have a couple, just one, not several, and I am responsible .. a'n my loves use in mayority linux, not window-like over linux make children, be promoted at work, i have family too, and also time ot made Venenux.net, and promote it at my work, event if MS dinamycs will imposse in have new passions, develop new talents not related to software, take care of their old relatives, etc. i'm not developer, i'm electricist, and also like take care of gamming If you have time to dedicate to packaging, please step up and help the teams you mentionned. when users send some trivial help. packages said that are nor relevant.. many times.. as examples, currenlty razorqt package status are under heavywieit lisence issues event tecnically funtionality What DDs who become short in time make sure in these teams, is that the infrastructure and learning curves are as easy as possible for newcomers, in order to to help others to contribute where they can not do themselves anymore. Long ago, when debian pass from sarge to etch there was a major man-power drain, also a etch-lenny hole in package releases, in my case, it was very frustrating for maintenance staff had to know a lot of things that had nothing to do with electronics or games, when wanted to help with these types of packages, well, today we have mentors but getting sponsors is equally frustrating Have a nice week-end, -- Charles Plessy sorry but all of u said i do also, but not use as excuse for that problem! get sponsors for critical problems in some cases are very frustrating.. specially in the ejabberd package that have a terrible error in http send forms.. i made some suggestios and nothing... -- Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO) http://qglochekone.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CALci+FT1h_BjZt2YXT=MhMz3E_mRoR6K4iFUOAD=pjesuge...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
Hi Paul, thanks for your great analysis. I might like to stress explicitly one item (even if I totally agree with all others in general) On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 01:37:10PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: Specialization: Debian contributors generally work on stuff they use or are otherwise are interested in. This can limit the scope of software that gets sponsored. With well-functioning teams, it can also mean that software for a specific area is well covered with sponsorship, debian-med is a good example. Unfortunately can mean [Your paragraph is ending a bit unexpected - perhaps you forget to type something] As one of the active sponsors in Debian Med I would really like to stress this. I'm also trying to hint people about other teams they could possibly approach because I have the feeling that the sponsorship in *any* *working* team works quite good. There are teams formed around technical issues like languages (pkg-perl, python modules etc.) and there are teams targeting at end users that try to create an outright system for a specific target user group. The technical term in Debian is Debian Pure Blends in short Blends. You can find a list of those Blends here: http://blends.alioth.debian.org/ Please note that not all Blends work equally well and some of these are dead / dying - but perhaps you might dive into this field and help vitalising this team. In any case if you have a package that to some extend fits into the scope of the Blends teams (or the technical teams I mentioned above) you should definitely contact their mailing list in addition to Debian mentors. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130228085523.gb9...@an3as.eu
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
in recent years the debian packagers have focused on licensing, setting aside as much therefore important that the package works .. I've noticed that some reports have response as is not critical, is still working, or else not reproducible, or better u can made a patch u can made a fix u ca... u can.. u do that co DD/DM has no time!! NO TIME!?? one can see that many DD have no experience in the software packages nature in charge .. l this is main reason why the quality / performance of debian packages has fallen, and because these characters to nosaber that I should do such software are not interested in doing sponsoring the mayor injury are in electronic/science and gamming part On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:25 AM, Andreas Tille andr...@an3as.eu wrote: Hi Paul, thanks for your great analysis. I might like to stress explicitly one item (even if I totally agree with all others in general) On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 01:37:10PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: Specialization: Debian contributors generally work on stuff they use or are otherwise are interested in. This can limit the scope of software that gets sponsored. With well-functioning teams, it can also mean that software for a specific area is well covered with sponsorship, debian-med is a good example. Unfortunately can mean [Your paragraph is ending a bit unexpected - perhaps you forget to type something] As one of the active sponsors in Debian Med I would really like to stress this. I'm also trying to hint people about other teams they could possibly approach because I have the feeling that the sponsorship in *any* *working* team works quite good. There are teams formed around technical issues like languages (pkg-perl, python modules etc.) and there are teams targeting at end users that try to create an outright system for a specific target user group. The technical term in Debian is Debian Pure Blends in short Blends. You can find a list of those Blends here: http://blends.alioth.debian.org/ Please note that not all Blends work equally well and some of these are dead / dying - but perhaps you might dive into this field and help vitalising this team. In any case if you have a package that to some extend fits into the scope of the Blends teams (or the technical teams I mentioned above) you should definitely contact their mailing list in addition to Debian mentors. Kind regards Andreas. -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130228085523.gb9...@an3as.eu -- Lenz McKAY Gerardo (PICCORO) http://qglochekone.blogspot.com
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
Le Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 01:04:39PM -0430, PICCORO McKAY Lenz a écrit : I've noticed that some reports have response as is not critical, is still working, or else not reproducible, or better u can made a patch u can made a fix u ca... u can.. u do that co DD/DM has no time!! NO TIME!?? Hi Lenz, with time, DDs tend to meet loved ones, make children, be promoted at work, have new passions, develop new talents not related to software, take care of their old relatives, etc. If you have time to dedicate to packaging, please step up and help the teams you mentionned. What DDs who become short in time make sure in these teams, is that the infrastructure and learning curves are as easy as possible for newcomers, in order to to help others to contribute where they can not do themselves anymore. Have a nice week-end, -- Charles Plessy Debian Med packaging team, http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-med Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130301035115.gc12...@falafel.plessy.net
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
Hi all, my 2 cts. On 02/27/2013 12:07 AM, Philip Ashmore wrote: First - a weighted sponsorship priority queue - all packages get a rating and higher-rated packages will get sponsored sooner than others. I agree with that. On my opinion the package weight should be calculated, considering the following parameters: a) Number of closed bugs with the uploads. b) ITA-ITP, ITA should get more points, than ITP. c) Number of packages, maintained by applicant, his experience. d) Number of days the package hangs in the queue. Not sure about coefficients between these parameters. Everyone who wants a sponsor for a package will see their package, its position in the queue, and its weighting. Your call is important to us - you are 15th in the queue is better than please hold. Agree. Second - a weighting web interface - even if a sponsor can't/wont sponsor a package they can rate it positively or negatively. This would take seconds with the right web interface, comments optional. I think, it is useless. There should be only the opportunity to leave a comment and mark a package as please, fix it. Cheers, Anton signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On 02/26/2013 10:36 PM, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: it is currently during freeze, most DDs are working on RC bugs :) If only this was truth! :) Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/512e669b.4010...@debian.org
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On 27/02/13 19:57, Anton Gladky wrote: Hi all, my 2 cts. On 02/27/2013 12:07 AM, Philip Ashmore wrote: First - a weighted sponsorship priority queue - all packages get a rating and higher-rated packages will get sponsored sooner than others. I agree with that. On my opinion the package weight should be calculated, considering the following parameters: a) Number of closed bugs with the uploads. b) ITA-ITP, ITA should get more points, than ITP. c) Number of packages, maintained by applicant, his experience. d) Number of days the package hangs in the queue. Not sure about coefficients between these parameters. Everyone who wants a sponsor for a package will see their package, its position in the queue, and its weighting. Your call is important to us - you are 15th in the queue is better than please hold. Agree. Second - a weighting web interface - even if a sponsor can't/wont sponsor a package they can rate it positively or negatively. This would take seconds with the right web interface, comments optional. I think, it is useless. There should be only the opportunity to leave a comment and mark a package as please, fix it. I've seen comments about packages requesting sponsorship like why do we need yet another foo package. Duplicating functionality already in Debian is one reason to mark down a sponsorship request - I'm sure there are others. Cheers, Anton -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/512e77a8.6040...@philipashmore.com
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On 27.02.2013 20:57, Anton Gladky wrote: First - a weighted sponsorship priority queue - all packages get a rating and higher-rated packages will get sponsored sooner than others. I agree with that. On my opinion the package weight should be calculated, considering the following parameters: a) Number of closed bugs with the uploads. b) ITA-ITP, ITA should get more points, than ITP. c) Number of packages, maintained by applicant, his experience. d) Number of days the package hangs in the queue. Not sure about coefficients between these parameters. Something like that is planned for Debian Mentors. It's just nobody found time to implement it. Volunteers? -- with kind regards, Arno Töll IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
Hi, I have 2 packages for which I request sponsoring. http://mentors.debian.net/package/jabberd2 Bug #698547 http://mentors.debian.net/package/jabber-muc Bug #698548 But until now nobody seemed to be interested in sponsoring them. I got messages not familiar with these packages or something like that. In the past I had some other packages and also had problems to get a sponsor. Why is it so hard to get a sponsor? Greetings, Willem signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 03:09:04PM +0100, Willem van den Akker wrote: Hi, I have 2 packages for which I request sponsoring. http://mentors.debian.net/package/jabberd2 Bug #698547 http://mentors.debian.net/package/jabber-muc Bug #698548 But until now nobody seemed to be interested in sponsoring them. I got messages not familiar with these packages or something like that. In the past I had some other packages and also had problems to get a sponsor. Yeah, me too. Even as a sponsored uploader a DM. Why is it so hard to get a sponsor? While this isn't true of the general case, which I think there's valid concern about, it is currently during freeze, most DDs are working on RC bugs :) Some sponsorship does still go on -- perhaps you could ask some of the DDs who maintain jabber servers -- the ejabberd folks or so, or the xmpp team. Also, the jabberd2 package in the PTS[1] has Debian XMPP team on maintainer. Are there no DDs willing to sponsor a routine upload there? Greetings, Willem Cheers, Paul [1]: http://packages.qa.debian.org/j/jabberd2.html -- .''`. Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org : :' : Proud Debian Developer `. `'` 4096R / 8F04 9AD8 2C92 066C 7352 D28A 7B58 5B30 807C 2A87 `- http://people.debian.org/~paultag signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On Tue, 26 Feb 2013 15:09:04 +0100, Willem van den Akkerwvdak...@wilsoft.nl wrote: Hi, I have 2 packages for which I request sponsoring. http://mentors.debian.net/package/jabberd2 Bug #698547 http://mentors.debian.net/package/jabber-muc Bug #698548 But until now nobody seemed to be interested in sponsoring them. I got messages not familiar with these packages or something like that. In the past I had some other packages and also had problems to get a sponsor. Why is it so hard to get a sponsor? If I am reading your (big) changelogs correctly, you are (amongst other things) switching patch-system to quilt, and package new upstream versions - This is a big no-no for the release team during the freeze (see [1]) which we have had since June [2]. This might lower the chances of getting a DD to sponsor your packages during the freeze. [1] http://release.debian.org/wheezy/freeze_policy.html [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2012/06/msg9.html -- Andreas Rönnquist mailingli...@gusnan.se gusn...@gusnan.se -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130226154001.2add4...@debian.lan
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
While this isn't true of the general case, which I think there's valid concern about, it is currently during freeze, most DDs are working on RC bugs :) Ok. Some sponsorship does still go on -- perhaps you could ask some of the DDs who maintain jabber servers -- the ejabberd folks or so, or the xmpp team. Also, the jabberd2 package in the PTS[1] has Debian XMPP team on maintainer. Are there no DDs willing to sponsor a routine upload there? Yes I already emailed and pinged the XMPP group. Also the uploaders. No-one answered. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
If I am reading your (big) changelogs correctly, you are (amongst other things) switching patch-system to quilt, and package new upstream versions - This is a big no-no for the release team during the freeze (see [1]) which we have had since June [2]. This might lower the chances of getting a DD to sponsor your packages during the freeze. [1] http://release.debian.org/wheezy/freeze_policy.html [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2012/06/msg9.html I understand [1] and [2]. I meant uploading to unstable and not testing. But none of the DD was ever answering the emails..
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
Hi, On 26.02.2013 22:31, W. van den Akker wrote: I understand [1] and [2]. I meant uploading to unstable and not testing. But none of the DD was ever answering the emails.. Be patient and don't give up. I know this can be frustrating and annoying, and we're slowly trying to improve the situation, but we all agree the situation is still all but optimal to sponsorees. Moreover, personally I'm always keen to hear about ideas how to improve the situation though. So let us know if you got good ideas. -- with kind regards, Arno Töll IRC: daemonkeeper on Freenode/OFTC GnuPG Key-ID: 0x9D80F36D signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On 26/02/13 21:51, Arno Töll wrote: Hi, On 26.02.2013 22:31, W. van den Akker wrote: I understand [1] and [2]. I meant uploading to unstable and not testing. But none of the DD was ever answering the emails.. Be patient and don't give up. I know this can be frustrating and annoying, and we're slowly trying to improve the situation, but we all agree the situation is still all but optimal to sponsorees. Moreover, personally I'm always keen to hear about ideas how to improve the situation though. So let us know if you got good ideas. While harsh reality dictates that sponsors will spend their time however they wish, including only sponsoring packages that interest them or have some other relevance, it might be more encouraging if sponsorees could know where they stand apart from the wall of silence we have now. First - a weighted sponsorship priority queue - all packages get a rating and higher-rated packages will get sponsored sooner than others. Everyone who wants a sponsor for a package will see their package, its position in the queue, and its weighting. Your call is important to us - you are 15th in the queue is better than please hold. Second - a weighting web interface - even if a sponsor can't/wont sponsor a package they can rate it positively or negatively. This would take seconds with the right web interface, comments optional. Third, unless a package reaches some negative weighting value which marks it as un-sponsor-able, it will eventually get packaged. This way, sponsors get to package what they like most of the time, with the occasional package they might prefer not to, for Debians sake. Regards, Philip Ashmore -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/512d401f.2070...@philipashmore.com
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
Here is a hopefully comprehensive, general answer to this question, not specific to your situation: Freeze: During the release freeze, most Debian folks are focussed on getting the release out. Fixing RC bugs, fixing important bugs, doing upgrade testing, writing release notes, finalising the installer and live CDs. All these things are a higher priority than sponsoring packages that fix non-RC issues. Volume: There are not enough Debian contributors to package every piece of software nor enough Debian members to sponsor every package made by Debian contributors. This has always been the case and always will be the case, there is just so much free software out there and probably many more Debian contributors than Debian members. Time: Sponsorship is hard work and is a large time investment. Some Debian members might not have enough Debian time to do it at all and others might prefer to spend their time on doing work that they signed up to do, like maintian infrastructure or packages they are a maintainer for. Specialization: Debian contributors generally work on stuff they use or are otherwise are interested in. This can limit the scope of software that gets sponsored. With well-functioning teams, it can also mean that software for a specific area is well covered with sponsorship, debian-med is a good example. Unfortunately can mean Preferences: Different folks have different packaging preferences, some like cdbs, some debhelper, some dh, some yada. Your packaging choices will in part reduce the set of folks Responsibility: Sponsors take responsibility for your upload. Some folks might not want to take this responsibility on, if they didn't check the upload quite well enough and later it was discovered to contain malicious or buggy code, it would be their fault. This scares some people away from doing sponsorship. Some folks are scared of uploading new packages in case it turns out the contributor will disappear after one upload. Infrastructure: In the past we had pretty poor ways of matching packages to be sponsored with potential sponsors based on the above criteria. This is improving with the new developments in mentors.d.n but still needs work (AFAIK). Emphasis: From memory, when I joined, sponsorship wasn't emphasised quite as much as other activities in Debian, so less folks considered taking it on at all. This may have changed already or perhaps we need to adjust our new-member documents. More: We have had this discussion many times over the years, you might want to look at the archives for this list to find out some more reasons for the general lack of sponsors or for fleshing out the above reasons. Increasing your chances: Keep trying! Don't stop after a month of not being able to find a sponsor. Continue maintaining the package on mentors.d.n/etc and you can increase sponsors confidence in your abilities and your committment to Debian. Relationships with sponsors. It is easier to get sponsored by someone who already knows your work from another area in Debian, like core software (dpkg/apt/gcc/etc), core QA infrastructure (the PTS, DDPO, etc), the website or other areas. If you are able to, come to DebConf and meet the folks who could potentially sponsor your packages. Increase the quality of your package. Check it against various checklists. Check it with various automatic tools like lintian. Look at the PTS page for your package and at the links on that page. Do reviews for other folks looking for sponsorship and ask them to review your package in return. http://wiki.debian.org/SponsorChecklist http://wiki.debian.org/LucaFalavigna/NEWChecklist http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html http://wiki.debian.org/HowToPackageForDebian#Check_points_for_any_package http://mentors.debian.net/intro-reviewers More tips listed in the FAQ: http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq#Where_else_can_I_get_a_sponsor.3F http://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsFaq#What_happens_if_I_can.27t_find_a_sponsor.3F -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6G==s-epmmcoz34dvkofjvpowxslh7b6ggvs+j8d0a...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
Bah, I need to read before sending. On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:37 PM, Paul Wise wrote: Specialization: ... Unfortunately can mean Unfortunately this can mean there are no sponsors for particular areas. Preferences: Different folks have different packaging preferences, some like cdbs, some debhelper, some dh, some yada. Your packaging choices will in part reduce the set of folks ...who will have experience with and willingness to sponsor your package. Another thing I forgot about, there are folks and teams who do not do sponsorship, but have a strong emphasis on collaboration and instead do co-maintainence or team maintainence. -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6F_-eMFkDxD+46h6mz0=p0jfbCVka2gHoZJDRZpH-5=z...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 11:07:11PM +, Philip Ashmore wrote: On 26/02/13 21:51, Arno Töll wrote: Hi, On 26.02.2013 22:31, W. van den Akker wrote: I understand [1] and [2]. I meant uploading to unstable and not testing. But none of the DD was ever answering the emails.. Be patient and don't give up. I know this can be frustrating and annoying, and we're slowly trying to improve the situation, but we all agree the situation is still all but optimal to sponsorees. Moreover, personally I'm always keen to hear about ideas how to improve the situation though. So let us know if you got good ideas. While harsh reality dictates that sponsors will spend their time however they wish, including only sponsoring packages that interest them or have some other relevance, True. it might be more encouraging if sponsorees could know where they stand apart from the wall of silence we have now. Also true. First - a weighted sponsorship priority queue - all packages get a rating and higher-rated packages will get sponsored sooner than others. Priorities are different per sponsor. There's no overall priority. Also, setting priorities and publishing them, costs time, in my opinion better spent on sponsoring the packages. Everyone who wants a sponsor for a package will see their package, its position in the queue, and its weighting. Your call is important to us - you are 15th in the queue is better than please hold. I agree that this would be nice for who waits for a sponsor. Second - a weighting web interface - even if a sponsor can't/wont sponsor a package they can rate it positively or negatively. This would take seconds with the right web interface, comments optional. Now that is a good idea. Voting up or down with one click costs little time. Third, unless a package reaches some negative weighting value which marks it as un-sponsor-able, it will eventually get packaged. No promises that a package will get sponsored. The ranking reflects the voting up or down, but it doesn't mean that the top package will be sponsored first. Sponsoring still depends on the individual sponsor deciding that the package is good for upload. This way, sponsors get to package what they like most of the time, with the occasional package they might prefer not to, for Debians sake. If the individual sponsors want to do this. It's still volunteering work. Regards, Bart Martens -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130227063624.gb3...@master.debian.org
Re: Why is it so hard to get sponsors.....?
I'm reminded of the metrics stuff that was discussed ages ago: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMentorsNet#Metrics -- bye, pabs http://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-mentors-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAKTje6H1APguHYYjvYZqRSCUegoTdTkEgJxFAOtBzZhRrh=t...@mail.gmail.com
