Non-DD access to core machines (was Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent)
Paul Wise wrote: >On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:43 PM, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > >> Not sure, that would be up to DSA, but I can't imagine them turning down >> somebody if the cd team allow them. > >I don't speak for the rest of DSA but I would personally like to >confine the use of guest accounts to the porterboxen. If we can trust >someone enough to have access to core machines, we trust them enough >to be a Debian member and it doesn't make sense to workaround the >membership process by granting guest access. Nod. In this particular case, I would personally veto giving non-DD access to casulana or pettersson. They are too trusted for that to make sense, with direct access to important data like our released installation and live images, plus the testing debian-cd key. Similarly, I wouldn't imagine the ftpteam being happy with guest access to ftp-master. >I'm not in the teams where Helen has been working but watching from >afar, full Debian membership (no idea about upload access) seems >appropriate to me given her level of work. Exactly, yes. -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com "Further comment on how I feel about IBM will appear once I've worked out whether they're being malicious or incompetent. Capital letters are forecast." Matthew Garrett, http://www.livejournal.com/users/mjg59/30675.html
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 3:41 AM, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > Just as a data point: I had been granted the 'qa' unix group before (ok, > only few months) I was a DD (and with that I had access to things like > quantz.d.o which does have private things like the MIA db without being > a Project Member). Yes, at the time I didn't think that was appropriate either. > But your point is valid. Also, now the problem doesn't exist anymore, > so let's talk about this whenever another similar case comes around in > the future? :) Ack. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On Sat, Aug 04, 2018 at 08:58:36PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: > I don't speak for the rest of DSA but I would personally like to > confine the use of guest accounts to the porterboxen. If we can trust > someone enough to have access to core machines, we trust them enough > to be a Debian member and it doesn't make sense to workaround the > membership process by granting guest access. Just as a data point: I had been granted the 'qa' unix group before (ok, only few months) I was a DD (and with that I had access to things like quantz.d.o which does have private things like the MIA db without being a Project Member). But your point is valid. Also, now the problem doesn't exist anymore, so let's talk about this whenever another similar case comes around in the future? :) -- regards, Mattia Rizzolo GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. more about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On Fri, Aug 3, 2018 at 7:43 PM, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > Not sure, that would be up to DSA, but I can't imagine them turning down > somebody if the cd team allow them. I don't speak for the rest of DSA but I would personally like to confine the use of guest accounts to the porterboxen. If we can trust someone enough to have access to core machines, we trust them enough to be a Debian member and it doesn't make sense to workaround the membership process by granting guest access. I'm not in the teams where Helen has been working but watching from afar, full Debian membership (no idea about upload access) seems appropriate to me given her level of work. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On 08/03/2018 07:43 PM, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 05:42:19PM +0800, Helen Koike wrote: [...] > >> Not much, but as a DD NON-uploader, I thought that interacting with >> packages was not the focus. Could you please clarify what a DD_NU is about? > > See https://www.debian.org/vote/2010/vote_002 which is the relevant > GR that introduced non-uploading DD. Pretty much this is about > recognizing people that work on Debian but don't do packaging work, > therefore they don't need uploading rights to the archive. > > The fact that you are asking this is not particularly inspiring to me, > but considering the surrounding contributions and how many people > supports you, I guess it's fine even if you don't know what you are > applying for, I suppose… :) > Actually I know about what dd_nu is about (GRs, votes, recognition...), the question was: "do I need to be active in bts to be dd_nu (because this was conflicting about what I knew regarding dd_nu)? if yes, then please clarify what is expected from a dd_nu regarding packages", but I wrote this message before you replied again, and you already clarified it and this was all a misunderstanding :) Thanks again Helen signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 05:42:19PM +0800, Helen Koike wrote: > I wasn't sure if I could have guest access, if yes, then fine, but it > seems that casulana is a core machine and it is possible that DSA team > won't give me access if I am not a DD/DD_nu. Not sure, that would be up to DSA, but I can't imagine them turning down somebody if the cd team allow them. > Agreed. My declaration of intent wasn't clear enough, if I understand, > becoming a DD is also about being recognized as an official member and > have a saying in decisions too, please let me know if my understanding > is not correct. Exactly. Once you are a DD (be it uploading or not, it doesn't matter) you gain voting rights for GRs, elections for the Debian Project Leader, access to the debian-private@ ML which contains stuff that are -guess!- private; nothing Earth-shattering, but still I prefer to make sure there are reason people are joining. > I also want to clarify that what Jonathan mentioned is true, I shouldn't > have asked for DM before, this was a mistake. I am not doing any > packaging at the moment so DM or full DD doesn't make sense. So I > changed the application to DD_nu. Incidentally, looks like Jonathan was quicker than my lunch and already assigned an AM to you ^^ > And I also want to clarify I don't have any bad feelings in how this > discussion was driven and again, I really appreciate all the support > people have given to me. Thank you. I've been pointed out that my messages were not quite welcome, and indeed re-reading them I acknowledge I could have written things differently to have them look less like some kind of passive aggression. > List of contributions: > = > Debian-efi team: > > * First proposed solution (Dak byhand scripts for signing): > I implemented several versions of Dak byhand scripts for code signing, > code can be checked at > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=821051 > With the respective test cases. > These were really useful to generate discussions between debian efi > team, the ftp masters and the package maintainers (most of the > discussions were on IRC) As I mentioned, I do remember of your interactions in #-ftp. Your determination to get that matter to an end was quite impressive (talking also as a party that is still waiting on them for a different things for years…) > Not much, but as a DD NON-uploader, I thought that interacting with > packages was not the focus. Could you please clarify what a DD_NU is about? See https://www.debian.org/vote/2010/vote_002 which is the relevant GR that introduced non-uploading DD. Pretty much this is about recognizing people that work on Debian but don't do packaging work, therefore they don't need uploading rights to the archive. The fact that you are asking this is not particularly inspiring to me, but considering the surrounding contributions and how many people supports you, I guess it's fine even if you don't know what you are applying for, I suppose… :) > I am in the organization of dc19. So you do dc17+dc18+dc19. According to previous cases, that's enough to be a dd_nu! At any rate, good luck with your NM process! -- regards, Mattia Rizzolo GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. more about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On 08/03/2018 05:16 PM, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > [ Dropping Helen's archives, as this mail is quite "meta" ] > > On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 01:45:48PM +0800, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: >> Thanks Mattia for bringing your concerns (once more :-). Not everyone >> wants to publicly express their worries on particular nm processes, >> maybe to not to sound rude or offensive to our dear new applicants, who >> are obviously in a more 'vulnerable' position at the moment they express >> their wishes to be publicly recognized as (potential) Debian members. > > This is indeed one reason I'm doing it. I often pondered whether to do > it in public or in private, but turns out that most of the time is > indeed some misunderstanding, like in this case, so having everything in > public is IMHO a good thing. I agree, when discussions are public misunderstandings usually go away faster. > >> A few times I've also felt some discomfort with some applicantions, but >> due to some dificulty on chosing my words (in a non-native language) I >> decided just to let it go... > > Remember that in the nm.d.o website there is a field for comments, that > also let people leave confidential comments that are read only by FD. I > can't talk for everybody, but I at least would like to know if anybody > has concerns on a particular applicant. > I'm personally sad to admit that in past when I shared my concerns in > this mail list I felt mostly ignored, when all it would have takes were > some clarifications on the applications... > >> "...please tell something about yourself, how you came to Debian and Free >> Software, and why you want to volunteer your time. Please describe the >> contributions you have made to Debian, your primary areas of interest >> and any goals you wish to accomplish." > > Indeed one of the reason I couldn't understand this Helen's application > was because of her quite terse introduction... Sorry about that, I agree is was a short introduction, mostly because I assumed that the people reading it would be the people that are here in DebConf and know me, this was an assumption I shouldn't make, sorry about that. > >> For instance, here is a recent statement that I think has room for >> improvement: >> >> "As a member of DebConf18 orga team, I has seem Taowa working in Front >> Desk. Because of his hard work, people can get room key, dorm card, AC >> card without any problem. Also for local team, we can trust him to track >> all dorm card in wafer so that we don't lost any of them." >> >> Although I personally think Taowa has a great potential to become a >> valuable Debian member, I'd rather avoid an advocating text that only >> points his work on a particular Debconf. This has a great potential to >> create noise. > > I pretty much ignored such advocacy. Handing out keys is surely > respectable but hardly enough to be project members... > When the dd_nu concept was introduced one reason that was brought on the > table was to recognize people like the DebConf contributors that would > otherwise not be mentioned anywhere. With Taowa being a member of DC17 > and DC18 that was good enough for me to go ahead without much blinking. > As advocacies go, Holger's words were more "useful" than Hector's or > ChangZhuo's, despite not being formally sent through the website. > >> Regarding Helen's case, I've never worked directly with her, but I've >> seen that she has a long term involvement in Debian. I can atest her >> contributions on mentoring, helping with events, giving talks about >> Debian and I'm happy to have had here in DC18 very good references about >> her on the technical side as well. > > Worry not anymore, I'm not blocking her process! :) > My doubts about Helen dissipated, so I'm not concerned anymore. > Also, despite what some people seem to believe I didn't start this > discussion with the direct goal of blocking her (nor with any other > applicant in the past) but to rather understand better the situation> (OK, I > did block Helen's DM application because that was totally odd for > me and didn't make sense, and indeed it was not the correct course of > action, as this discussion proved). > > Let me look for an AM now > Thank you :) Helen signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
Hi Mattia, [ps: I just realized that you replied again, but I spent so much time writing this that I want to send it now :) ] First of all, I appreciate your concerns and it is good to know that people care about the quality of who is becoming an official member of the project. I also want to thanks all the people who supported me. To clarify a bit more the work I've been doing for Debian, I made a list in the bottom of this email, please check. Other reasons to become a DD_nu: I would like to be recognized as an official member of the project. This have motivational reasons, technical reasons (as mentioned in the debian-cloud team part below) and also I would like to have the right to vote and to have a saying in other decisions. On 08/02/2018 07:58 PM, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > [ CCing also Helen's other application as DM ] [...] > > Have you considered asking for a guest account? > If you only need access to _certain_ machines, that's quite the easy > scapegoat. Also, it could be granted pretty much instantly. I wasn't sure if I could have guest access, if yes, then fine, but it seems that casulana is a core machine and it is possible that DSA team won't give me access if I am not a DD/DD_nu. Please, see in the list of contributions why I would like access to casulana machine. > > > I was also looking at your DM application indeed, but I consider that > pattern "I believe as [more power level] I [could do something]" is a > dangerous train of thought. You shouldn't be asking for something > because probably maybe at some point it might be handy; rather, you > should be trying to do something and see that you are blocked to do that > thing, or maybe have done so many things by going through somebody (i.e. > sent a relevant ton of good patches) to gain trust. Agreed. My declaration of intent wasn't clear enough, if I understand, becoming a DD is also about being recognized as an official member and have a saying in decisions too, please let me know if my understanding is not correct. > > You say "mainly for the debian-cloud image build process". I don't know > how that's done. If it's about code, I trust the code is public and you > could replicate it, same I hope for the build logs of those build > processes; so is there anything blocking you? Note that I totally > believe already that having access to all the relevant machines is more > handy, but I'd like to understand what's the problem. > Also in the context of allowing more external contributors: if > something like that requires any contributors to be able to ssh to a > .d.o machine, than that's something that ought to be fixed. > > > Furthermore, looking at > https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/koike-guest@alioth/ I can > see only contributions to bugs.d.o, > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?correspondent=helen.fornaz...@gmail.com=both > lists only 5 bugs. Personally I consider somebody that interacted with > only 5 bugs in the bts to not have enough knowledge of the bts to be > neither DM nor DD (but that's could easily be just me!). Please, see the list of contributions below regarding BTS. I also want to clarify that what Jonathan mentioned is true, I shouldn't have asked for DM before, this was a mistake. I am not doing any packaging at the moment so DM or full DD doesn't make sense. So I changed the application to DD_nu. And I also want to clarify I don't have any bad feelings in how this discussion was driven and again, I really appreciate all the support people have given to me. List of contributions: = Debian-efi team: * First proposed solution (Dak byhand scripts for signing): I implemented several versions of Dak byhand scripts for code signing, code can be checked at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=821051 With the respective test cases. These were really useful to generate discussions between debian efi team, the ftp masters and the package maintainers (most of the discussions were on IRC) * Second proposed solution (signing service + byhand): I implemented the signing box package, the tests and the integration with Dak, those can be checked at https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=821051#257 * Third proposed solution (signing at buildd + byhands scripts): Helped raising discussions about this, most of the discussion were on IRC and dc17. As we were having several disagreements on the infrastructure regarding signing, I helped organizing a secure boot sprint last year (April 2018). * Forth and final proposed solution (signing service + dak API + template package). During the secure boot sprint, I implemented part of the signing service, together with Luke Faraone: https://salsa.debian.org/ftp-team/code-signing (please check commit history). * debian-efi dc18 report: I organized the secure boot status report talk: Talk:
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
[ Dropping Helen's archives, as this mail is quite "meta" ] On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 01:45:48PM +0800, Tiago Bortoletto Vaz wrote: > Thanks Mattia for bringing your concerns (once more :-). Not everyone > wants to publicly express their worries on particular nm processes, > maybe to not to sound rude or offensive to our dear new applicants, who > are obviously in a more 'vulnerable' position at the moment they express > their wishes to be publicly recognized as (potential) Debian members. This is indeed one reason I'm doing it. I often pondered whether to do it in public or in private, but turns out that most of the time is indeed some misunderstanding, like in this case, so having everything in public is IMHO a good thing. > A few times I've also felt some discomfort with some applicantions, but > due to some dificulty on chosing my words (in a non-native language) I > decided just to let it go... Remember that in the nm.d.o website there is a field for comments, that also let people leave confidential comments that are read only by FD. I can't talk for everybody, but I at least would like to know if anybody has concerns on a particular applicant. I'm personally sad to admit that in past when I shared my concerns in this mail list I felt mostly ignored, when all it would have takes were some clarifications on the applications... > "...please tell something about yourself, how you came to Debian and Free > Software, and why you want to volunteer your time. Please describe the > contributions you have made to Debian, your primary areas of interest > and any goals you wish to accomplish." Indeed one of the reason I couldn't understand this Helen's application was because of her quite terse introduction... > For instance, here is a recent statement that I think has room for > improvement: > > "As a member of DebConf18 orga team, I has seem Taowa working in Front > Desk. Because of his hard work, people can get room key, dorm card, AC > card without any problem. Also for local team, we can trust him to track > all dorm card in wafer so that we don't lost any of them." > > Although I personally think Taowa has a great potential to become a > valuable Debian member, I'd rather avoid an advocating text that only > points his work on a particular Debconf. This has a great potential to > create noise. I pretty much ignored such advocacy. Handing out keys is surely respectable but hardly enough to be project members... When the dd_nu concept was introduced one reason that was brought on the table was to recognize people like the DebConf contributors that would otherwise not be mentioned anywhere. With Taowa being a member of DC17 and DC18 that was good enough for me to go ahead without much blinking. As advocacies go, Holger's words were more "useful" than Hector's or ChangZhuo's, despite not being formally sent through the website. > Regarding Helen's case, I've never worked directly with her, but I've > seen that she has a long term involvement in Debian. I can atest her > contributions on mentoring, helping with events, giving talks about > Debian and I'm happy to have had here in DC18 very good references about > her on the technical side as well. Worry not anymore, I'm not blocking her process! :) My doubts about Helen dissipated, so I'm not concerned anymore. Also, despite what some people seem to believe I didn't start this discussion with the direct goal of blocking her (nor with any other applicant in the past) but to rather understand better the situation. (OK, I did block Helen's DM application because that was totally odd for me and didn't make sense, and indeed it was not the correct course of action, as this discussion proved). Let me look for an AM now -- regards, Mattia Rizzolo GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. more about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 12:39:24AM -0300, Tassia Camoes Araujo wrote: > On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 01:58:16PM +0200, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > > Furthermore, looking at > > https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/koike-guest@alioth/ I can > > see only contributions to bugs.d.o, > > Please do not assume that contributors.d.o is a comprehensive > source of information. Unfortunatelly, we still don't have the means to track > contributions from all sorts, especially those more 'difuse', that happen more > in real life than in code repositories. Of course I do not assume such a thing. But the application talks only about techinical stuff: work with EFI (btw, I do remember her pushing for EFI signing on IRC) and cloud teams. Those are totally things that happen in code repositories. Only one advocacy mentions work on DC19. But anyway, contributors.debian.org was made with the exact porpuse of making traking non-packaging contributions more easily. I recomend anybody that is involved in any of those fields to have a look at it, write up a data source (which is incredibly easy to do) to submit contributions data (iirc there were talks about hooking up something pseudo-directly on salsa, not sure how this progressed). > Helen has act as a Debian advocate and mentor for newbies for a while This wasn't mentioned in the application. -- regards, Mattia Rizzolo GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. more about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On Fri, Aug 03, 2018 at 12:03:53PM +0800, Jonathan Wiltshire wrote: > I think some confusion may have arisen from Helen's application to dm > first and then soon after to dd_nu as well. That was surely one point, especially one (dm) that in my view didn't make any sanse (especially after you wrote she has sufficient sponsorship potential in her teams). > Not all contributions to > Debian are easily seen or involve uploading to the archive, but I am still > keen to recognise them. Of course, that's the goal of dd_nu! I was somewhat taken aback first by the weirdness of the double application, and also because both the declaration of intent and the advocacies could have used with a lot of more details on what she has done, they are all about how generally good Helen is and her potential… Given indeed that is hard to track the work some dd_nu people do (because our tooling pretty much sucks for non-packaging work), more details than a dd_u (for whom looking up their packages is easy) are needed. > dd_nu allows recognition of work in Debian, voting rights and some official > standing; whilst dm means we delegate deciding someone's readiness to > upload limited packages to the archive to those people who work with them > more closely. A detail that may not be known to everybody: since what I believe is less than a year, dd_nu people could be granted DM rights like DMs (as somebody can't be dd_nu and dm at the same time). -- regards, Mattia Rizzolo GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. more about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
Hi, Thanks Mattia for bringing your concerns (once more :-). Not everyone wants to publicly express their worries on particular nm processes, maybe to not to sound rude or offensive to our dear new applicants, who are obviously in a more 'vulnerable' position at the moment they express their wishes to be publicly recognized as (potential) Debian members. A few times I've also felt some discomfort with some applicantions, but due to some dificulty on chosing my words (in a non-native language) I decided just to let it go... I have noticed however that most of time things are clarified by the mentors/advocats without further discussion, nor objections. This mean that if the original applicant/mentors text were more precise if could have avoided concerns and the consequent tension that it brings on the applicants side. I don't know how to fix it, apart to reinforce what's is already stated on the NM form: "...please tell something about yourself, how you came to Debian and Free Software, and why you want to volunteer your time. Please describe the contributions you have made to Debian, your primary areas of interest and any goals you wish to accomplish." For instance, here is a recent statement that I think has room for improvement: "As a member of DebConf18 orga team, I has seem Taowa working in Front Desk. Because of his hard work, people can get room key, dorm card, AC card without any problem. Also for local team, we can trust him to track all dorm card in wafer so that we don't lost any of them." Although I personally think Taowa has a great potential to become a valuable Debian member, I'd rather avoid an advocating text that only points his work on a particular Debconf. This has a great potential to create noise. Regarding Helen's case, I've never worked directly with her, but I've seen that she has a long term involvement in Debian. I can atest her contributions on mentoring, helping with events, giving talks about Debian and I'm happy to have had here in DC18 very good references about her on the technical side as well. Bests, On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 01:58:16PM +0200, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > [ CCing also Helen's other application as DM ] > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 08:01:52AM -, Helen Koike wrote: > > I would like to apply to change my status in Debian to Debian Developer non > > uploader. > > > > I've been working for secure boot with the efi team and also with the cloud > > team for official Debian images. > > I believe as a DD I can get a wider access to the project and the ability > > to contribute even more. > > > > I had applied to DM before but I am actually not maintaining any packages > > yet, as the work I've been doing is > > mostly related to infrastructure/services/testing and not packaging, I need > > to become a DD to have access > > to certain machines, mainly for the debian-cloud image build process. So I > > believe a DD non-uploadler would be > > more appropriated then a DM. > > Have you considered asking for a guest account? > If you only need access to _certain_ machines, that's quite the easy > scapegoat. Also, it could be granted pretty much instantly. > > > I was also looking at your DM application indeed, but I consider that > pattern "I believe as [more power level] I [could do something]" is a > dangerous train of thought. You shouldn't be asking for something > because probably maybe at some point it might be handy; rather, you > should be trying to do something and see that you are blocked to do that > thing, or maybe have done so many things by going through somebody (i.e. > sent a relevant ton of good patches) to gain trust. > > You say "mainly for the debian-cloud image build process". I don't know > how that's done. If it's about code, I trust the code is public and you > could replicate it, same I hope for the build logs of those build > processes; so is there anything blocking you? Note that I totally > believe already that having access to all the relevant machines is more > handy, but I'd like to understand what's the problem. > Also in the context of allowing more external contributors: if > something like that requires any contributors to be able to ssh to a > .d.o machine, than that's something that ought to be fixed. > > > Furthermore, looking at > https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/koike-guest@alioth/ I can > see only contributions to bugs.d.o, > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?correspondent=helen.fornaz...@gmail.com=both > lists only 5 bugs. Personally I consider somebody that interacted with > only 5 bugs in the bts to not have enough knowledge of the bts to be > neither DM nor DD (but that's could easily be just me!). > > -- > regards, > Mattia Rizzolo > > GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. > more about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : > Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 01:58:16PM +0200, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > [ CCing also Helen's other application as DM ] > > On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 08:01:52AM -, Helen Koike wrote: > > I would like to apply to change my status in Debian to Debian Developer non > > uploader. > > > > I've been working for secure boot with the efi team and also with the cloud > > team for official Debian images. > > I believe as a DD I can get a wider access to the project and the ability > > to contribute even more. > > > > I had applied to DM before but I am actually not maintaining any packages > > yet, as the work I've been doing is > > mostly related to infrastructure/services/testing and not packaging, I need > > to become a DD to have access > > to certain machines, mainly for the debian-cloud image build process. So I > > believe a DD non-uploadler would be > > more appropriated then a DM. > > Have you considered asking for a guest account? > If you only need access to _certain_ machines, that's quite the easy > scapegoat. Also, it could be granted pretty much instantly. I think some confusion may have arisen from Helen's application to dm first and then soon after to dd_nu as well. In general this is an acceptable combination of statusses (even though it might keep DSA on their toes :). Not all contributions to Debian are easily seen or involve uploading to the archive, but I am still keen to recognise them. dd_nu allows recognition of work in Debian, voting rights and some official standing; whilst dm means we delegate deciding someone's readiness to upload limited packages to the archive to those people who work with them more closely. In Helen's particular case, I have spoken with her in person and her application to dm first was an error. She has sufficient sponsorship potential in the team for uploads not to be a problem, and addition of dm status or conversion to dd_u at a later date is not a problem. I'll therefore shortly cancel the dm application. -- Jonathan Wiltshire j...@debian.org Debian Developer http://people.debian.org/~jmw 4096R: 0xD3524C51 / 0A55 B7C5 1223 3942 86EC 74C3 5394 479D D352 4C51 signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
Hello, On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 01:58:16PM +0200, Mattia Rizzolo wrote: > > Furthermore, looking at > https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/koike-guest@alioth/ I can > see only contributions to bugs.d.o, > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?correspondent=helen.fornaz...@gmail.com=both > lists only 5 bugs. Personally I consider somebody that interacted with > only 5 bugs in the bts to not have enough knowledge of the bts to be > neither DM nor DD (but that's could easily be just me!). > Please do not assume that contributors.d.o is a comprehensive source of information. Unfortunatelly, we still don't have the means to track contributions from all sorts, especially those more 'difuse', that happen more in real life than in code repositories. Helen has act as a Debian advocate and mentor for newbies for a while now, and her interactions with the community make me comfortable with having her as a member of the project with voting rights. Furthermore, her request is to be a non-uploading DD, so having 5 interactions with the BTS should count as a positive point IMHO. Cheers, Tassia. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
Hello, 2018-08-02 17:18 GMT+02:00 David Prévot : > Hi, > > Le 02/08/2018 à 19:58, Mattia Rizzolo a écrit : >> On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 08:01:52AM -, Helen Koike wrote: >>> I would like to apply to change my status in Debian to Debian Developer non >>> uploader. > […] >> Have you considered asking for a guest account? > > I was one of the people advising going in the full DD process (real life > yet casual meetups during DebConf helps). Guest account is only time > limited, and being DD is not only about technical stuff (e.g., vote). > I’m confident that people who already vouched for Helen will happily > renew their support for the full DD process (more people may follow). > > Just writing this right here, right now, to make clear than I do believe > that the proper DM process for Helen to become DD is the right way to go > (not being among the people who actively worked with Helen, I can’t > advocate on her technical skills, yet “mentoring” her a bit as part of > the DebConf Video team, and seeing her on stage part of the Secure Boot > team, makes me feel like she should really be recognized as a full > member of our project ASAP. I totally second David on his statement, and I also support Helen Koike's DD application, she has applied since several people, including myself have been telling her that DD is better role for the kind of work she is involved with: * Working on cloud images * DebConf19 organization * Secure Boot Debian enablements I think she needs to start her DD application ASAP and get through the process which takes a while. In the meanwhile, if she needs, DSA will be quite happy to create a guest account for Helen. While doesn't have many bugs recorded on the BTS, she has been patient and pushing really hard to get Secure Boot enabled in Debian and part of that work involve organizing Debian secure boot sprint along with Steve McIntyre and presenting the outcome at [DebConf]. If that's not enough to apply for DD, not sure what else we need to ask for. Surely I believe Helen's interactions with BTS will grow in the near future, as well as packages to maintain. She has expressed her desire to help me co-maintain GDB package in the past, however she has not had the time for that yet. [DebConf](https://debconf18.debconf.org/talks/59-report-from-the-debian-efi-team-about-the-support-of-secure-boot-on-debian/) Regards, -- Héctor Orón -.. . -... .. .- -. -.. . ...- . .-.. --- .--. . .-. -- Would you like to make a donation towards the upcoming Debian conference? Brochure: https://media.debconf.org/dc18/fundraising/debconf18_sponsorship_brochure_en.pdf ** https://debconf18.debconf.org/sponsors/become-a-sponsor/ **
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
- Mensagem original - > De: "David Prévot" > > Just writing this right here, right now, to make clear than I do believe > that the proper DM process for Helen to become DD is the right way to go > (not being among the people who actively worked with Helen, I can’t > advocate on her technical skills, yet “mentoring” her a bit as part of > the DebConf Video team, and seeing her on stage part of the Secure Boot > team, makes me feel like she should really be recognized as a full > member of our project ASAP. I would like to add that Helen is on DC19 local team, and she has been very important for our group. Best regards, -- Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls) Curitiba - Brasil Membro da Comunidade Curitiba Livre Site: http://www.phls.com.br GNU/Linux user: 228719 GPG ID: 0443C450 Apoie a campanha pela igualdade de gênero #HeForShe (#ElesPorElas) http://www.heforshe.org/pt
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
Hi, Le 02/08/2018 à 19:58, Mattia Rizzolo a écrit : > On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 08:01:52AM -, Helen Koike wrote: >> I would like to apply to change my status in Debian to Debian Developer non >> uploader. […] > Have you considered asking for a guest account? I was one of the people advising going in the full DD process (real life yet casual meetups during DebConf helps). Guest account is only time limited, and being DD is not only about technical stuff (e.g., vote). I’m confident that people who already vouched for Helen will happily renew their support for the full DD process (more people may follow). Just writing this right here, right now, to make clear than I do believe that the proper DM process for Helen to become DD is the right way to go (not being among the people who actively worked with Helen, I can’t advocate on her technical skills, yet “mentoring” her a bit as part of the DebConf Video team, and seeing her on stage part of the Secure Boot team, makes me feel like she should really be recognized as a full member of our project ASAP. Regards David signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Helen Koike: Declaration of intent
[ CCing also Helen's other application as DM ] On Thu, Aug 02, 2018 at 08:01:52AM -, Helen Koike wrote: > I would like to apply to change my status in Debian to Debian Developer non > uploader. > > I've been working for secure boot with the efi team and also with the cloud > team for official Debian images. > I believe as a DD I can get a wider access to the project and the ability to > contribute even more. > > I had applied to DM before but I am actually not maintaining any packages > yet, as the work I've been doing is > mostly related to infrastructure/services/testing and not packaging, I need > to become a DD to have access > to certain machines, mainly for the debian-cloud image build process. So I > believe a DD non-uploadler would be > more appropriated then a DM. Have you considered asking for a guest account? If you only need access to _certain_ machines, that's quite the easy scapegoat. Also, it could be granted pretty much instantly. I was also looking at your DM application indeed, but I consider that pattern "I believe as [more power level] I [could do something]" is a dangerous train of thought. You shouldn't be asking for something because probably maybe at some point it might be handy; rather, you should be trying to do something and see that you are blocked to do that thing, or maybe have done so many things by going through somebody (i.e. sent a relevant ton of good patches) to gain trust. You say "mainly for the debian-cloud image build process". I don't know how that's done. If it's about code, I trust the code is public and you could replicate it, same I hope for the build logs of those build processes; so is there anything blocking you? Note that I totally believe already that having access to all the relevant machines is more handy, but I'd like to understand what's the problem. Also in the context of allowing more external contributors: if something like that requires any contributors to be able to ssh to a .d.o machine, than that's something that ought to be fixed. Furthermore, looking at https://contributors.debian.org/contributor/koike-guest@alioth/ I can see only contributions to bugs.d.o, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?correspondent=helen.fornaz...@gmail.com=both lists only 5 bugs. Personally I consider somebody that interacted with only 5 bugs in the bts to not have enough knowledge of the bts to be neither DM nor DD (but that's could easily be just me!). -- regards, Mattia Rizzolo GPG Key: 66AE 2B4A FCCF 3F52 DA18 4D18 4B04 3FCD B944 4540 .''`. more about me: https://mapreri.org : :' : Launchpad user: https://launchpad.net/~mapreri `. `'` Debian QA page: https://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=mattia `- signature.asc Description: PGP signature
