Re: Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
Remember to regenerate the crypto keys so these aren't the same. Cheers.
On Wed, 31 Jan 2024, 04:07 Stan Johnson, wrote:
> Just FYI to close this thread.
>
> In an attempt to duplicate the problem on a G4 Cube, I noticed that
> there were no issues with "apt-get upgrade" followed by "apt-get
> dist-upgrade". So I just copied the Cube's rootfs to the G4 PowerMac
> MDD, configured the hostname and network, restored the correct SMP
> kernel and modules, and everything is working.
>
> -Stan
>
> -
>
> On 1/22/24 8:24 AM, Stan Johnson wrote:
> > Hi Adrian,
> >
> > Please see the last paragrraph of the message; it may provide a clue for
> > ppc (and probably ppc64).
> >
> > Mr. Simon McVittie seems to be saying that debian-devel isn't the right
> > place for these kinds of issues, since Debian 8 was the last supported
> > version of Debian for ppc. Perhaps the bug report he submitted will
> > address the problem.
> >
> > -Stan
> >
> > Forwarded Message
> > Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
> > Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:25 + (UTC)
> > Resent-From: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
> > Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:01 +
> > From: Simon McVittie
> > To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
> >
> > On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 at 17:14:11 -0700, Stan Johnson wrote:
> >> The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian
> >> SID at the moment
> >
> > You can't *necessarily* draw this conclusion from a failure to
> > upgrade. You are using powerpc, which is a "ports" architecture that is
> > not really part of the Debian release process any more:
> >
> > The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is Debian 8 ("jessie").
> > — https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
> >
> > For reference, Debian 8 "jessie" reached end-of-life in 2018.
> >
> > powerpc enthusiasts continue to compile packages from the unstable (sid)
> > rolling release on powerpc, but "ports" architectures are not supported
> by
> > the Debian project as a whole. The mailing list for the big-endian
> powerpc
> > and ppc64 ports (and the little-endian ppc64el architecture, which *is*
> > supported) is debian-powerpc.
> >
> > It is common for potentially large categories of packages to be
> temporarily
> > uninstallable in unstable, particularly in "ports" architectures, and you
> > cannot expect upgrades to go smoothly at all times. I would personally
> > suggest using an interactive apt user interface like aptitude to get a
> > better idea of what depends on what and why.
> >
> >> that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as
> >> the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already
> >> installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init
> >
> > systemd is the default init system in Debian, and also provides the
> > default implementation of several other important systemd services
> > like logind. If you have chosen not to use systemd, you can expect
> > that you will have to take steps to select other non-default packages
> > (for example dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session, and libpam-elogind
> > instead of libpam-systemd). apt will not necessarily be able to do this
> > automatically.
> >
> > Trying this on amd64, it appears that the problem you encountering is
> > probably that libelogind, elogind's partial replacement for libsystemd,
> > does not appear to provide all of the functions required by the current
> > versions of important packages like procps: procps currently requires
> > libsystemd0 (>= 254), and libelogind only provides a replacement for
> > version 252. I've reported this libelogind limitation as a bug in
> > elogind.
> >
> > smcv
> >
>
>
Re: Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
Just FYI to close this thread.
In an attempt to duplicate the problem on a G4 Cube, I noticed that
there were no issues with "apt-get upgrade" followed by "apt-get
dist-upgrade". So I just copied the Cube's rootfs to the G4 PowerMac
MDD, configured the hostname and network, restored the correct SMP
kernel and modules, and everything is working.
-Stan
-
On 1/22/24 8:24 AM, Stan Johnson wrote:
> Hi Adrian,
>
> Please see the last paragrraph of the message; it may provide a clue for
> ppc (and probably ppc64).
>
> Mr. Simon McVittie seems to be saying that debian-devel isn't the right
> place for these kinds of issues, since Debian 8 was the last supported
> version of Debian for ppc. Perhaps the bug report he submitted will
> address the problem.
>
> -Stan
>
> Forwarded Message
> Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
> Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:25 + (UTC)
> Resent-From: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
> Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:01 +
> From: Simon McVittie
> To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
>
> On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 at 17:14:11 -0700, Stan Johnson wrote:
>> The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian
>> SID at the moment
>
> You can't *necessarily* draw this conclusion from a failure to
> upgrade. You are using powerpc, which is a "ports" architecture that is
> not really part of the Debian release process any more:
>
> The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is Debian 8 ("jessie").
> — https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
>
> For reference, Debian 8 "jessie" reached end-of-life in 2018.
>
> powerpc enthusiasts continue to compile packages from the unstable (sid)
> rolling release on powerpc, but "ports" architectures are not supported by
> the Debian project as a whole. The mailing list for the big-endian powerpc
> and ppc64 ports (and the little-endian ppc64el architecture, which *is*
> supported) is debian-powerpc.
>
> It is common for potentially large categories of packages to be temporarily
> uninstallable in unstable, particularly in "ports" architectures, and you
> cannot expect upgrades to go smoothly at all times. I would personally
> suggest using an interactive apt user interface like aptitude to get a
> better idea of what depends on what and why.
>
>> that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as
>> the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already
>> installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init
>
> systemd is the default init system in Debian, and also provides the
> default implementation of several other important systemd services
> like logind. If you have chosen not to use systemd, you can expect
> that you will have to take steps to select other non-default packages
> (for example dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session, and libpam-elogind
> instead of libpam-systemd). apt will not necessarily be able to do this
> automatically.
>
> Trying this on amd64, it appears that the problem you encountering is
> probably that libelogind, elogind's partial replacement for libsystemd,
> does not appear to provide all of the functions required by the current
> versions of important packages like procps: procps currently requires
> libsystemd0 (>= 254), and libelogind only provides a replacement for
> version 252. I've reported this libelogind limitation as a bug in
> elogind.
>
> smcv
>
Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
Hi Adrian,
Please see the last paragrraph of the message; it may provide a clue for
ppc (and probably ppc64).
Mr. Simon McVittie seems to be saying that debian-devel isn't the right
place for these kinds of issues, since Debian 8 was the last supported
version of Debian for ppc. Perhaps the bug report he submitted will
address the problem.
-Stan
Forwarded Message
Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
Resent-Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:25 + (UTC)
Resent-From: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2024 10:49:01 +
From: Simon McVittie
To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org
On Sun, 21 Jan 2024 at 17:14:11 -0700, Stan Johnson wrote:
> The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian
> SID at the moment
You can't *necessarily* draw this conclusion from a failure to
upgrade. You are using powerpc, which is a "ports" architecture that is
not really part of the Debian release process any more:
The last supported release for 32-bit PowerPC is Debian 8 ("jessie").
— https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
For reference, Debian 8 "jessie" reached end-of-life in 2018.
powerpc enthusiasts continue to compile packages from the unstable (sid)
rolling release on powerpc, but "ports" architectures are not supported by
the Debian project as a whole. The mailing list for the big-endian powerpc
and ppc64 ports (and the little-endian ppc64el architecture, which *is*
supported) is debian-powerpc.
It is common for potentially large categories of packages to be temporarily
uninstallable in unstable, particularly in "ports" architectures, and you
cannot expect upgrades to go smoothly at all times. I would personally
suggest using an interactive apt user interface like aptitude to get a
better idea of what depends on what and why.
> that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as
> the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already
> installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init
systemd is the default init system in Debian, and also provides the
default implementation of several other important systemd services
like logind. If you have chosen not to use systemd, you can expect
that you will have to take steps to select other non-default packages
(for example dbus-x11 instead of dbus-user-session, and libpam-elogind
instead of libpam-systemd). apt will not necessarily be able to do this
automatically.
Trying this on amd64, it appears that the problem you encountering is
probably that libelogind, elogind's partial replacement for libsystemd,
does not appear to provide all of the functions required by the current
versions of important packages like procps: procps currently requires
libsystemd0 (>= 254), and libelogind only provides a replacement for
version 252. I've reported this libelogind limitation as a bug in
elogind.
smcv
Fwd: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID
FYI, it appears to be a dependency issue, not directly caused by systemd. Forwarded Message Subject: Re: X-Windows on PPC in Debian SID Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2024 17:14:11 -0700 From: Stan Johnson To: debian-de...@lists.debian.org, Colin Watson Hi Colin, On 1/21/24 3:22 PM, Stan Johnson wrote: > ... > > I'll also try installing systemd first (and let sysvinit-core be > uninstalled), then I'll run "apt-get dist-upgrade", then re-install > sysvinit-core and see if that disables systemd and lets the X packages > remain. I've noticed before that some packages claim to be dependent > on systemd, but they'll continue to work if systemd is installed and > then replaced by sysvinit-core. But if wdm really does require systemd > now, > that might explain this issue, with other X packages being > dependent on either wdm or systemd. As I recall, wdm is the last X > login manager that didn't require systemd (I think xdm and lightdm > both require systemd, at least as compiled in Debian). Please see attached (my comments are preceded by "***"). The bottom line is that there appears to be a dependency issue in Debian SID at the moment that makes wdm (and other X-Windows packages such as the Xorg server) dependent on systemd, even if systemd is already installed, regardless of whether systemd is being used as the init (that may not be quite correct, but it appears that way from the attached file). Removing sysvinit-core manually (after the "apt-get upgrade" step) results in systemd being used as the init. But even then, "apt-get dist-upgrade" deletes the X-Windows packages. For now, I'll restore my rootfs to just after my last "apt-get upgrade". thanks -Stan ppc-g4_01202024.txt.xz Description: Binary data
