Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests

[Charles Plessy]

Le Thu, May 11, 2017 at 10:10:39PM +0200, Philip Hands a écrit :
> 
> Also, I suspect that anyone that might be tempted to misbehave as a
> result of CoI will not have filled in their entry anyway, which makes me
> wonder what useful purpose this could serve beyond a virtue signalling
> opportunity.

Hi Philip and everybody,

Preventing misbehaviours is only one side of the issue.  Situations of
conflicts of interests also arise when the public, stakeholders,
colleagues, etc. may have strong feelings that a decision is biased,
which undermines the credibility of persons or decision-making bodies.
In this case, declarations of conflicts of interest leading to step aside
of a decision-making process protect people and institutions from
potentially harmful controversies.

This said, since the situations of conflict of interest arise in
specific contexts, I wonder if a broad list like the one of the wiki is
going to be meaningful, although it is a good exercise for people to
think about possible situations they may encounter in the future.  On
the other hand, I would welcome a more systematic declaration of
conflict of interests when some decisions with far-reaching consequences
on the project are being taken.

Have a nice day,

-- 
Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan

Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests

[Philip Hands]

Russ Allbery  writes:

> Nikolaus Rath  writes:
>> On May 10 2017, Russ Allbery  wrote:
>
>>> and no conclusions should ever be drawn from it?
>
>> I don't think anyone has said that.
>
> Quoting from the originally proposed wiki page:
>
> | The following people have added themselves to this list. No-one should
> | assume that the presence or absence of a person from this list implies
> | any conflict of interest or misconduct within Debian.
>
> I'm agnostic on the merits of collecting this data -- I can see both
> sides.  But I think the above paragraph is unrealistic, and if we want
> that paragraph to be true, we should not gather the data in the first
> place.

Quite.

Also, I suspect that anyone that might be tempted to misbehave as a
result of CoI will not have filled in their entry anyway, which makes me
wonder what useful purpose this could serve beyond a virtue signalling
opportunity.

Cheers, Phil.
-- 
|)|  Philip Hands  [+44 (0)20 8530 9560]  HANDS.COM Ltd.
|-|  http://www.hands.com/http://ftp.uk.debian.org/
|(|  Hugo-Klemm-Strasse 34,   21075 Hamburg,GERMANY


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Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests

[Russ Allbery]

Nikolaus Rath  writes:
> On May 10 2017, Russ Allbery  wrote:

>> and no conclusions should ever be drawn from it?

> I don't think anyone has said that.

Quoting from the originally proposed wiki page:

| The following people have added themselves to this list. No-one should
| assume that the presence or absence of a person from this list implies
| any conflict of interest or misconduct within Debian.

I'm agnostic on the merits of collecting this data -- I can see both
sides.  But I think the above paragraph is unrealistic, and if we want
that paragraph to be true, we should not gather the data in the first
place.

-- 
Russ Allbery (r...@debian.org)   

Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests

[Nikolaus Rath]

On May 10 2017, Russ Allbery  wrote:
> "Dr. Bas Wijnen"  writes:
>> On Tue, May 09, 2017 at 11:51:23PM +, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
>>> I think it's a horrible idea.  One of the major draws of Debian is that
>>> we are all here for our own reasons.  I don't judge your motivations
>>> and you don't judge nine.
>
>> It's voluntary, so you decide what you want to share.  If you don't want to
>> share anything, that's fine.
>
> How is this meaningful if it's strictly voluntary

You can still use it to infer existence of COI, just not their absence.


> and no conclusions
> should ever be drawn from it?

I don't think anyone has said that.

Best,
-Nikolaus

-- 
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 »Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a Banana.«

Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests

[Steve McIntyre]

On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 01:05:09PM +0100, Ian Jackson wrote:
>Jonathan Dowland writes ("Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests"):
>> 
>> I respect that, but I hope that those who are happy to add
>> themselves to the list as it stands are not dissuaded from doing so
>> (in my view, I'd happily see the shape of the list evolve and adapt
>> my entry to fit as necessary).
>
>Right.
>
>TBH I now think this may be too much work.  I guess I will just write
>my own entry and we can see how it evolves.

I've just added my details, and added an extra column for "Notes",
e.g. how the Interest might intersect with Debian.

>> > The list should have a date at which the user's entry was last
>> > updated and signed off by them as complete.
>> 
>> The former can be inferred from the wiki page history.
>
>Well, it's a bit awkward.  And it just shows you the last edit, not
>the last time the user themselves thought it was up to date.

We can check for the last edit by the person in question, which should
cover that I hope!

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com
"I used to be the first kid on the block wanting a cranial implant,
 now I want to be the first with a cranial firewall. " -- Charlie Stross

Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests

[Ian Jackson]

Jonathan Dowland writes ("Re: Debian contributor Register of Interests"):
> I'm not sure how to word it but I felt that it was appropriate to
> disclose that I work for Red Hat (Even though I do not work on RHEL
> or Fedora), since Red Hat produces something "similar" to Debian, or
> more specifically a third party could hypothetically allude that it
> was in Red Hat's interests for Debian to make a particular technical
> decision. (I didn't see this rationale on your list)

Yes.

I guess I missed out:

  * Being paid to work on free software more generally

> > I would like to settle the boundaries before we start populating the
> > list.
> 
> I respect that, but I hope that those who are happy to add
> themselves to the list as it stands are not dissuaded from doing so
> (in my view, I'd happily see the shape of the list evolve and adapt
> my entry to fit as necessary).

Right.

TBH I now think this may be too much work.  I guess I will just write
my own entry and we can see how it evolves.

> > The list should have a date at which the user's entry was last
> > updated and signed off by them as complete.
> 
> The former can be inferred from the wiki page history.

Well, it's a bit awkward.  And it just shows you the last edit, not
the last time the user themselves thought it was up to date.

Ian.

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