Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On Tue, Jun 28, 2022 at 1:53 AM Stefano Rivera wrote: > > Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) > > I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. > > +1 > > > Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default > > of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost > > insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required > > to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of > > course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed > > with receipts. > > That sounds sensible. I'd go one step further and say that any > visa-related travel costs shouldn't be automatically covered, but > require the sign-off of the visa team (for debconf, or DPL otherwise). > > In the case of Indian visas this year, it took the local team a few > weeks of effort to find a better solution than travel to Istanbul for > the Indian attendees. I think we want the pressure to be on for visa > team to try to make something like that happen. > > I'd also suggest that the bursaries team publish a clearer list of what > is and isn't acceptable for travel reimbursement (e.g. taxis, travel > hotels). > I think Debian should help cover VISA expenses and I support Stefano's suggestions. Perhaps we can cover direct VISA fees by default and handle other costs (i.e. travel, express delivery, etc) on a case by case basis. VISA fees are usually already a significant part of costs and having it covered could help a lot, like Schengen VISA usually costs 80 EUR and US VISA costs 160 USD. Regards, Aron
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On തി, ജൂൺ 27 2022 at 05:34:48 വൈകു +02:00:00 +02:00:00, Jonathan Carter wrote: Furthermore, visa requirements tend to affect people from less privileged countries the most. If we're serious about diversity, I think that we should include covering the visa fee if we offer travel+accommodation by default, and that this should be the default for DebConf going forward, and ideally for all Debian events. +1 Thanks for this proposal. I realise I have some bias here, I myself come from a country where I need a visa nearly everywhere I want to travel to, but I do think that including visa fees by default will help making Debian easier to contribute to for people who come from such countries, and ultimately have a small role in helping us expand to more areas and improve our diversity. I think that is a benefit of diversity rather than bias. Having people in influencial position with diverse backgrounds makes it easy to understand others needs and requirements. I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough consensus so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary policies. -Jonathan
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On 27/06/22 at 17:43 +, Stefano Rivera wrote: > Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) > > I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. > > +1 +1 > > Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default > > of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost > > insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required > > to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of > > course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed > > with receipts. > > That sounds sensible. I'd go one step further and say that any > visa-related travel costs shouldn't be automatically covered, but > require the sign-off of the visa team (for debconf, or DPL otherwise). Yes. But I don't think that we should have a maximum fee, since the travel to the nearest embassy/consulate might be expensive in itself, but rather include this in the total cost in consideration for travel reimbursement. Lucas
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Hi, Em 27/06/2022 12:34, Jonathan Carter escreveu: Hi Debianites I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough consensus so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary policies. I belive Debian should help with visa costs. And I would like to suggest Debian (or TOs) contracts a travel agency to help those people can't pay for international tickets in advance, and wait until after DebConf to get the reimbursement. I know always there is the possibility someone ask for fly tickets, get it from the travel agency and for some reason have to gave up to travel. But for those, I belive an agency spending more than 60k in flight tickets will have more power to negotiate the reimbursement (or re-schedule) from flight companies than each of us. It's not easy to everybody spend more than USD 1k or 2k to join a DebConf and wait months to get the reimbursement. Best regards, -- Paulo Henrique de Lima Santana (phls) Belo Horizonte - Brasil Debian Developer Diretor do Instituto para Conservação de Tecnologias Livres Site: http://phls.com.br GNU/Linux user: 228719 GPG ID: 0443C450
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Hi! Em 27/06/2022 12:34, Jonathan Carter escreveu: Hi Debianites For DebConf, the bursary policy has varied year-on-year when it comes to visas. For some events, visas were completely covered, while for others, visas weren't to give more people a chance to attend (where the budget was more limited). IMHO, visa expenses should be covered by travel bursaries to DC or other Debian events. I should say that Debian, should have a policy to cover in advanced travel expenses(all or most all amount) for people that has less financial condition. As it's in item 2 for our Code of conduct[1], **Assume good faith**, so we should have good faith in people, if this people don't show up to Debian Event(DC, Sprints, Debian Reunion, MiniDC) they should return to Debian founds the amount. [1] https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct Best Regards -- Daniel Lenharo Curitiba - Brazil www.sombra.eti.br 31D8 0509 460E FB31 DF4B 9629 FB0E 132D DB0A A5B1 OpenPGP_0xFB0E132DDB0AA5B1.asc Description: OpenPGP public key OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On 2022-06-27 13 h 43, Stefano Rivera wrote: > Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) >> I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. > > +1 > >> Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default >> of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost >> insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required >> to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of >> course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed >> with receipts. +1 Thanks for thinking about these issues and making attendance to DebConf easier :) -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Louis-Philippe Véronneau ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋ po...@debian.org / veronneau.org ⠈⠳⣄
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Hi Daniel (2022.06.27_15:57:52_+) > I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. +1 > Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default > of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost > insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required > to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of > course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed > with receipts. That sounds sensible. I'd go one step further and say that any visa-related travel costs shouldn't be automatically covered, but require the sign-off of the visa team (for debconf, or DPL otherwise). In the case of Indian visas this year, it took the local team a few weeks of effort to find a better solution than travel to Istanbul for the Indian attendees. I think we want the pressure to be on for visa team to try to make something like that happen. I'd also suggest that the bursaries team publish a clearer list of what is and isn't acceptable for travel reimbursement (e.g. taxis, travel hotels). SR -- Stefano Rivera http://tumbleweed.org.za/ +1 415 683 3272
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
Am 27.06.22 um 17:34 schrieb Jonathan Carter: I don't think this needs to be a GR per sé, but I'd like to hear the views of others on this, and I hope that we can garner enough consensus so that we can just go ahead and implement this in our future bursary policies. I think covering travel Visa fees makes a lot of sense. We had cases in the past that go (far) beyond just the official Visa fees though. E.g. a person wanted to fly LA <-> NY to pick up a Visa sticker. They asked for the flights plus a hotel night in NY. The team - at the time - recommended to use FedEx instead. Thus I suggest a maximum fee for any Visa related activities, e.g. a default of USD 200, adjusted to inflation and (if necessary) relative Visa-cost insanity of DebConf hosting countries*. Because sometimes travel is required to just get a Visa, e.g. going to a larger city to apply in person. Of course - as with all our reimbursement - only the actual cost can be claimed with receipts. * Visa fees are often reciprocal between countries. They are a political means much more than an administrative.
Re: Covering visa fees as part of flights+accommodation expenses for events
On 27.06.22 17:34, Jonathan Carter wrote: This had mixed results, for one, people who had their visa's covered in the past may have been surprised to learn that this time round they suddenly had to pay $100-200 that they thought would have been covered. Furthermore, visa requirements tend to affect people from less privileged countries the most. If we're serious about diversity, I think that we should include covering the visa fee if we offer travel+accommodation by default, and that this should be the default for DebConf going forward, and ideally for all Debian events. A conference is about rendering us all mostly equal - some location, same food, same discussions. Diversity would also include those who cannot travel, or who cannot travel alone. I am fine with paying all travel-associated costs, but not because of diversity, please. Just call if "fairness" or "equal opportunity" or whatever. I realise I have some bias here, I myself come from a country where I need a visa nearly everywhere I want to travel to, but I do think that including visa fees by default will help making Debian easier to contribute to for people who come from such countries, and ultimately have a small role in helping us expand to more areas and improve our diversity. You mean global coverage. I agree that it would help the project to have direct contacts to many regions in the world. Best, Steffen
