Re: Python 2 d-d-a proposal
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 4:48 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote: You might also ask Debian teams using Python in the Debian infrastructure to review their packaged dependencies and identify any that aren't available for Python3. We'll need to know that soon so we can work on porting dependencies/finding alternatives. I think we should have as a goal for Stretch (that's the next one, right?) to have all the packages in place needed to run python using Debian infrastructure on Python3. That'll leave some time then 'just' to port the Debian specific stuff. For services hosted on DSA machines, you can find the known dependencies in this file: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/mirror/debian.org.git/tree/debian/control This is missing dependencies DSA doesn't know about, services on alioth.debian.org, debconf.org and many debian.net services though. If you build the debian.org meta-packages and install them in a chroot, you should be able to get an idea of which Python 2 modules are needed for services hosted on DSA machines. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caktje6gpnmf6xzrd6qp3ry-6nfwpnw25ndi+vnouwvk+xnc...@mail.gmail.com
Python and Debian infrastructure
In addition to the Python 3 related work: Port service dependencies to Python 3. Port service code-bases to Python 3. We also need to: Port Django based services to Django 1.7 Port services based on Pylons (deprecated) to something else like Django: snapshot.debian.org debexpo (mentors.debian.net) debshots (screenshots.debian.net, in progress to Rails) debianmemberportfolio (portfolio.debian.net) Does anyone know of any other deprecated Python stuff that we should move away from? -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caktje6hkht1l2v9veyj3rtwq0w65t4awuoemaxub1tucylh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Python 2 d-d-a proposal
On Wed, Apr 15, 2015 at 04:27:51PM -0400, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: I'd like this to have the endorsement of the team, so, does anyone object to me asking people to not write new tools in Python 2 only (prefer alternative deps or porting), and only use Python 2 in very special curcumstances or for legacy codebases (perhaps a pitch to move to Python 3), along with a note that we plan to deprecate Python 2 when upstream support is gone (2020), which puts us on track for two cycles (Buster) Maybe /usr/bin/python can become a wrapper executing Python 2 (like now) but also showing Python 2 will be deprecated in 2020 the latest. Do not use it to write new code. Consider helping in porting existing code. Thanks. Karsten -- GPG key ID E4071346 @ eu.pool.sks-keyservers.net E167 67FD A291 2BEA 73BD 4537 78B9 A9F9 E407 1346 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150416080725.ga3...@hermes.hilbert.loc
Re: Python 2 d-d-a proposal
With all this desire to drop Python 2 eventually -- there are packages, say gnumed-client, which simply cannot be ported to Python 3 ATM because important dependencies don't exist for Py 3, say pythonX-wxgtk. Karsten -- GPG key ID E4071346 @ eu.pool.sks-keyservers.net E167 67FD A291 2BEA 73BD 4537 78B9 A9F9 E407 1346 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150416081059.gb3...@hermes.hilbert.loc
Re: Python and Debian infrastructure
On Apr 16, 2015, at 02:58 PM, Paul Wise wrote: Does anyone know of any other deprecated Python stuff that we should move away from? One of the things I'd like to see happen, probably from the PyPA (Python Packaging Authority), is some help for determining this via PyPI. For example, if you search PyPI for 'oauth', your first hit is a package that has been abandoned upstream since 2009, and doesn't support OAuth2 or Python 3. And yet oauthlib is a much better, and actually maintained alternative. So one of the things PyPI could do is help downstreams understand the viability of packages that it contains. A package that hasn't seen an upload in 6 years is probably a good candidate from removal *everywhere*. Cheers, -Barry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150416074147.63a551e3@anarchist
Re: Python and Debian infrastructure
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 02:58:53PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: Port services based on Pylons (deprecated) to something else like Django: Pylons is deprecated in favor of Pyramid. It could be that porting these services to Pyramid will be easier than rewriting on top of Django. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique scientifique et gestion de connaissances -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150416123016.gb5...@volans.logilab.fr
Re: Python 2 d-d-a proposal
On Apr 16, 2015, at 10:07 AM, Karsten Hilbert wrote: Maybe /usr/bin/python can become a wrapper executing Python 2 (like now) but also showing Python 2 will be deprecated in 2020 the latest. Do not use it to write new code. Consider helping in porting existing code. Thanks. That was certainly among the suggestions floated at Pycon. Cheers, -Barry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150416074416.75550bd9@anarchist
Re: Python 2 d-d-a proposal
On Apr 16, 2015, at 10:10 AM, Karsten Hilbert wrote: With all this desire to drop Python 2 eventually -- there are packages, say gnumed-client, which simply cannot be ported to Python 3 ATM because important dependencies don't exist for Py 3, say pythonX-wxgtk. Right. The best approach is to start at an application and determine what you need from a top-down-approach, then port (or migration) from the bottom-up. Cheers, -Barry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20150416074325.3d8e1d8a@anarchist
Re: Python and Debian infrastructure
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 02:30:16PM +0200, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 02:58:53PM +0800, Paul Wise wrote: Port services based on Pylons (deprecated) to something else like Django: Pylons is deprecated in favor of Pyramid. It could be that porting these services to Pyramid will be easier than rewriting on top of Django. I already plan to port my debianmemberportfolio service to Python3 and Pyramid or Django later this year. I have experience with both but think that Pyramid is a bit more lightweight and I don't need a ORM and many other Django features. Paul already suggested to merge debianmemberportfolio with db.debian.org but I did not have time to evaluate that option yet. Best regards Jan -- Jan Dittberner - Debian Developer GPG-key: 4096R/558FB8DD 2009-05-10 B2FF 1D95 CE8F 7A22 DF4C F09B A73E 0055 558F B8DD https://jan.dittberner.info/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Python 2, Python 3, Stretch Buster
On Apr 16, 2015, at 04:33 PM, Cyril Brulebois wrote: (Last time EOL approached, it was pushed back by 5 years, so…) PEP 373 says that 2.7 will have bug fix releases until 2020. I suspect it will continue to have security releases for some time after that, as long as there's sufficient motivation by Python developers. Cheers, -Barry pgps4bWwiazwI.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Python 2 d-d-a proposal
On Wednesday 15 April 2015 20:54:38 Barry Warsaw wrote: I'm up for helping too, of course. Me too! Kind regards, -- Daniele Tricoli 'Eriol' http://mornie.org signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: Python and Debian infrastructure
On Thu, Apr 16, 2015 at 10:48 PM, Jan Dittberner wrote: Pyramid is a bit more lightweight Flask might be another option for lightweight framework needs. Paul already suggested to merge debianmemberportfolio with db.debian.org but I did not have time to evaluate that option yet. That is another rewrite that is in progress: https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/mirror/userdir-ldap.git/ https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/mirror/userdir-ldap-cgi.git/ https://github.com/LucaFilipozzi/ud/ Not sure when ud will be complete enough to deploy, but it uses Django. -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caktje6f6crcjqeo-eelfchcxx8rgrcdtdhperjtbknkhcwq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Python 2, Python 3, Stretch Buster
Paul Tagliamonte paul...@debian.org (2015-04-16): Background == Python 2 is scheduled to be EOL'd upstream officially and for good in 2020. We're in 2015 now (wow, that went quickly), and keeping our release cadence up (3 years a pop) puts Stretch up in 2018, and Buster in 2021. Wheezy was first released in May 2013. Jessie gets hopefully released in April 2015. That doesn't make it 3 years between releases. You should stop trying to replace 2's with 3's. ;p after Python 2 is EOL -- that's right, EOL! Nuts, right? (Last time EOL approached, it was pushed back by 5 years, so…) Mraw, KiBi. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Bits from the Debian PyCon Hangout - PyPy
On Thursday, April 16, 2015 06:45:08 PM Stefano Rivera wrote: Hi Scott (2015.04.15_18:30:23_+0200) If we are sharing dist-packages, then pypy can probably use the same binary when the content would be the same. Only in cases where the content is different would you duplicate a separate pypy package. That works, but only for leaf packages. Transitive dependencies lose track of the interpreter metadata. Let's say we have: Package: pypy3-foo Package: python3-foo Package: python3-bar Provides: pypy3-bar Depends: python3-foo If your app depends on just pypy3-foo, you're fine. Depending on pypy3-bar is more complicated. bar has to either depend on both stacks, or the app has to know to depend on pypy3-foo, as well as pypy3-bar. Sure. I think it's manageable, at least for a small set of packages though (which AIUI should be good enough). Here's what Python Policy currently says about python:Provides: sect id=provides headingProvides/heading p Provides in binary packages of the form packagepython-varX/var.varY/varvarfoo/var/package must be specified if the package contains an extension for more than one python version and an other package with version specific dependencies on the package require it. Provides are only for extensions, not modules. Provides should only be rarely used for Python packages and never for Python 3. /p /sect We could craft something similar for pypy provides. Add them when needed, but mostly don't worry about it. Then you should be able to just use normal dependencies. Scott K -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/4028611.UAg0ELdYFB@kitterma-e6430
Re: Python 2, Python 3, Stretch Buster
On 04/16/2015 03:50 PM, Paul Tagliamonte wrote:
If you're interested in this effort, please email me. This is a really good new
contributor task, so if anyone's asked you how they could get involved with
Debian, you should send them to us!
/me raises hand
I'm interested! :)
Generally speaking, many upstream contributors for OpenStack are aware
of the fact that switching to Python 3 is important, but I'm not sure
everyone realize how urgent it is.
FYI, I have, as much as possible, tried to add Python 3 support in all
the packages I maintain. However, some upstream dependencies don't have
Python 3 support. For what I do (ie: OpenStack), here's the list of bad
upstream packages:
https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Python3#Dependencies
Eventlet, which is one of the package hugely used in OpenStack, just
added support for Python 3. I already have a Python 3 package for it,
I'm just waiting for Jessie to be released so that I can upload it
(without breaking what's currently in Debian).
Alison wrote that she may work on the memcached (aka python-memcache).
This one is a real mess, and it'd be better to switch to pymemcache,
however, I'm not sure which of the 2 (ie: fixing memached or switching
to pymemcache) would give the most work.
Last, I've done a bit of 2 - 3 fixing, and mostly, I agree it's not
that hard. But some bits are tricky. An example from a page which I used
[1]:
i = 1
print('before: i =', i)
print('looping:', [i for i in range(5)])
print('after: i =', i)
doesn't produce the same after in Python 2 or 3 (ie: with Python 2,
the last print() will echo a 4, while Python 3 will keep i within the
scope of the for loop and will print 1 at the end). This is much harder
to detect than just a print statement instead of function, or a wrong
except or raise issue.
I'd be happy to share some more links of useful stuff about porting to
Python 3 (I have some more on my other laptop (tm)). Is there already
a page with some links on the subject in the Debian wiki?
Cheers,
Thomas Goirand (zigo)
[1]
http://nbviewer.ipython.org/github/rasbt/python_reference/blob/master/tutorials/key_differences_between_python_2_and_3.ipynb
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Re: Offer to help with Python 2 porting
On Fri, Apr 17, 2015 at 10:10 AM, Bryan Shook wrote: I saw Paul Tagliamonte's post to the debian-devel-announce list. I'd be interested in assisting with this project. I wrote some ctypes Python code that interacted with a Windows DLL. I ran into a lot of String encoding situations with that. This would be my first time as a contributor to Debian, but I'd love to be of service. I've joined this list, so let me know where to start with contributing. Paul has created a new list for the porting effort, please subscribe there: https://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/py3porters-devel -- bye, pabs https://wiki.debian.org/PaulWise -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/caktje6ek6krorg7xt0pj2t8yxbttxcvg-pozda8fmss9sov...@mail.gmail.com
Re: pygame and python 3
Hi, Pygame supported python3 since before version 1.9.0 in 2009. All Pygame code is written to work with either Python 2.x or 3.x. So building Pygame for python3 is the same as for python2. Just use python3 setup.py build instead of python setup.py build. Installation is also the same. For Pygame 1.9.2, which I test against Python 2.7 and 3.4 on i386 Linux Mint, python3 support is complete. So if a stable Pygame package already exists for python2, adapting it for python3 should be straight forward. Let me know if some Pygame bug causes problems and I will deal with it promptly. Thanks for the effort in keeping Pygame in Linux. Lenard Lindstrom Pygame developer On 15-04-16 06:47 PM, peter green wrote: One python package used heavilly in the raspberry pi community is pygame. Unfortunately the package hasn't had an upstream stable release since 2009 and the upstream stable release doesn't support python3. Currently sid has the latest upstream stable release and no python3-pygame package. Experimental does have a python3-pygame package but I have not tested it (i'm not really a python guy myself). Thoughts? has anyone tried the pythong3-pygame package in experimental? should it be pushed to unstable (after jessie release)? are there better alternatives to pygame? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55308b88.1000...@telus.net
pygame and python 3
One python package used heavilly in the raspberry pi community is pygame. Unfortunately the package hasn't had an upstream stable release since 2009 and the upstream stable release doesn't support python3. Currently sid has the latest upstream stable release and no python3-pygame package. Experimental does have a python3-pygame package but I have not tested it (i'm not really a python guy myself). Thoughts? has anyone tried the pythong3-pygame package in experimental? should it be pushed to unstable (after jessie release)? are there better alternatives to pygame? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/55306616.6000...@p10link.net
