RE: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi juha.. > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors as someone else already said, yast is a major problem with suse.. the distribution itself is actually not bad, but it gets worse when you start getting to know your system for real. with debian: you know the program to confiugure, you check the manpage for the config file names, you WILL find them in /etc, change them, re-init and you're happy. with suse: don't even think about touching anything in /etc - unless you really know what you're doing, your changes will be lost anyay. call yast instead and hope it's 3 or 4 config options of the program you'd like to configure are supported - if not, ask the local windows-admin you might have a handy trick like patching some sort of registry, ... ;-) yast tries to cover all major aspects of the linux configuration, but IMHO this must fail as even a simple print server would require it's own config program if you don't want to touch the config files - but isn't this the major advance of almost any linux program? ascii config files - readable, editable! I think suse aims for windows users to switch to their distribution - as long as they don't expect anything else then windows would offer, they're fine with suse but it actually cuts down linux' potential to half. maybe the suse/windows comparison might come handy for you - or you just tell 'em that debian is the unbeatable cheapest, most stable and CLEAN linux distribution you can get. hope this helps a little bit.. cu, jens - -- cu, jens fendler -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7U1ZwbR1FHiclVGwRAtUMAJ4sSy0eKUAkMNAYPbnzuQ87sXUqHgCgq2cv EsFW/V09mGptvYlavJlBdrs= =SPO0 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote: > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. One problem with administrability is YaST. A knowledgeable unix admin will have no problems to run a Debian box. But in my experience SuSE's YaST interferes with any by-hand tuning. Also an admin who has never used YaST before must first learn how to use it, and also learn what's different with YaST, what works, and what the flaws are. - Sebastian, who doesn't like YaST at all
RE: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 hi juha.. > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors as someone else already said, yast is a major problem with suse.. the distribution itself is actually not bad, but it gets worse when you start getting to know your system for real. with debian: you know the program to confiugure, you check the manpage for the config file names, you WILL find them in /etc, change them, re-init and you're happy. with suse: don't even think about touching anything in /etc - unless you really know what you're doing, your changes will be lost anyay. call yast instead and hope it's 3 or 4 config options of the program you'd like to configure are supported - if not, ask the local windows-admin you might have a handy trick like patching some sort of registry, ... ;-) yast tries to cover all major aspects of the linux configuration, but IMHO this must fail as even a simple print server would require it's own config program if you don't want to touch the config files - but isn't this the major advance of almost any linux program? ascii config files - readable, editable! I think suse aims for windows users to switch to their distribution - as long as they don't expect anything else then windows would offer, they're fine with suse but it actually cuts down linux' potential to half. maybe the suse/windows comparison might come handy for you - or you just tell 'em that debian is the unbeatable cheapest, most stable and CLEAN linux distribution you can get. hope this helps a little bit.. cu, jens - -- cu, jens fendler -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7U1ZwbR1FHiclVGwRAtUMAJ4sSy0eKUAkMNAYPbnzuQ87sXUqHgCgq2cv EsFW/V09mGptvYlavJlBdrs= =SPO0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote: > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. One problem with administrability is YaST. A knowledgeable unix admin will have no problems to run a Debian box. But in my experience SuSE's YaST interferes with any by-hand tuning. Also an admin who has never used YaST before must first learn how to use it, and also learn what's different with YaST, what works, and what the flaws are. - Sebastian, who doesn't like YaST at all -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
also sprach Ethan Benson (on Mon, 16 Jul 2001 04:14:51AM -0800): > > this isn't an answer, but install Debian, then change /etc/issue as > > well as /etc/motd to suggest SuSE, and trust me, none of your > > superiors are going to get it :) > > like they would ever login to the machine anyway. word up. i think i must give credit to oliver bolzer for this "trick" though. he supposedly did that in the linux cluster at the university of munich, where he admins... martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:"; [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 1-800-psych hello, welcome to the psychiatric hotline. if you are depressed, it doesn't matter which number you press. no one will answer. pgpvOOUYGUQZW.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 12:52:20PM +0200, Martin F. Krafft wrote: > > this isn't an answer, but install Debian, then change /etc/issue as > well as /etc/motd to suggest SuSE, and trust me, none of your > superiors are going to get it :) like they would ever login to the machine anyway. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ pgpdf5hwLFoNd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
also sprach Ethan Benson (on Mon, 16 Jul 2001 04:14:51AM -0800): > > this isn't an answer, but install Debian, then change /etc/issue as > > well as /etc/motd to suggest SuSE, and trust me, none of your > > superiors are going to get it :) > > like they would ever login to the machine anyway. word up. i think i must give credit to oliver bolzer for this "trick" though. he supposedly did that in the linux cluster at the university of munich, where he admins... martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:"; net@madduck -- 1-800-psych hello, welcome to the psychiatric hotline. if you are depressed, it doesn't matter which number you press. no one will answer. PGP signature
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
also sprach Juha J?ykk? (on Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:03:41AM +0300): > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. this isn't an answer, but install Debian, then change /etc/issue as well as /etc/motd to suggest SuSE, and trust me, none of your superiors are going to get it :) martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:"; [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- 1-800-psych hello, welcome to the psychiatric hotline. if you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5 and 6. pgpZfYkTxM32o.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Hi, On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, [ISO-8859-1] Juha Jäykkä wrote: > (off topic) > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they That is a strong point. If you are the sysop and you know Debian and do not know SuSE, it is better for all of you to get Debian (the best tool is the tool you know how to use). Greetz, Sebastiaan > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. > Thanks for enduring me. >
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 12:52:20PM +0200, Martin F. Krafft wrote: > > this isn't an answer, but install Debian, then change /etc/issue as > well as /etc/motd to suggest SuSE, and trust me, none of your > superiors are going to get it :) like they would ever login to the machine anyway. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ PGP signature
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Am 16.07.2001 10:03 Uhr schrieb Juha Jäykkä unter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > (off topic) > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. > Thanks for enduring me. Hi Juha, I´ve strongly used both distros. "have" because i don´t use SuSE anymore for the following reasons: Ease of administration: Try to upgrade an used SuSE x.x with an SuSE x.x+1. It WILL fail! Even try to do this with a fresh SuSE-Installation. The same. But try a: apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade with stable, testing or unstable in your sources.list. You´ll be happy! Same for security: CERT announces security problems with bind. SuSE: fetch the rpm from the website (what´s the adress? Ähm, and in which directory is bind? ...) and install it manually via rpm CERT announces another security problem with mutt. Go to the server, search for the rpm, download it ... CERT announces But in Debian: apt-get upgrade && apt-get update (even if the CERT announces hundred of problems) To sum it up for management: TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is much better the debian way! You don´t have to search the web for rpms every time CERT is crying, you don´t have to install you computer from the scratch every time SuSE updates the distro, due to the lack of good packet management. Hope that helps Florian
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
At 04:44 2001-07-16 -0400, you wrote: ,[ On Mon, Jul 16, at 11:03AM, Juha J?ykk? wrote: ]-- | Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of | Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors | to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I | need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in | enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they | do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not | need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. `[ End Quote ]--- Also, in a corporate enviroment, never understtimate the CYOA factor. With Debian, you will be where the buck stop at. There wont be a corporate contract with RH to cover you when shit happens. SuSe is a nightmare of non conformity. Debian is text book SysV directory structure, a great help if you use other Unix systems. Do find out why your bosses wantr to change from RH, you didnt mention that, depending on their reasons, you might want to consider other options. If you want a good suggestion, do present all sides here. but these are the ones that come to mind between Debian vs. SuSe. I would sayd ignore the 'gnu free' vs. 'truly free' argument, this is a corporate enviroment...anyway, hope that helps, odds are it wont. But its my 2cents anyway. --gabe There may be issues with application support - for instance, Debian was our first preference when we selected our distro, but IBM don't support DB2 on Debian, so we had to go for SuSE instead. Geoff.
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
,[ On Mon, Jul 16, at 11:03AM, Juha J?ykk? wrote: ]-- | Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of | Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors | to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I | need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in | enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they | do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not | need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. `[ End Quote ]--- Also, in a corporate enviroment, never understtimate the CYOA factor. With Debian, you will be where the buck stop at. There wont be a corporate contract with RH to cover you when shit happens. SuSe is a nightmare of non conformity. Debian is text book SysV directory structure, a great help if you use other Unix systems. Do find out why your bosses wantr to change from RH, you didnt mention that, depending on their reasons, you might want to consider other options. If you want a good suggestion, do present all sides here. but these are the ones that come to mind between Debian vs. SuSe. I would sayd ignore the 'gnu free' vs. 'truly free' argument, this is a corporate enviroment...anyway, hope that helps, odds are it wont. But its my 2cents anyway. --gabe -- "It's not brave if you're not scared."
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote: > (off topic) > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > Who's administering the boxen, you or them? If the answer is you, or other people who know Debian, then just remind them of the one truth in security: A system is only as secure as the administrator's knowledge of the system. I'm sure you can find a similar sentence in almost any security publication. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Martin Hermanowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Should this be on the list or per mail only?
I don't know why it's on debian-secure, that's for sure.
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote:
> > (off topic) Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in
> > favour of Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my
> > superiors to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like
> > to do. I need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in
> > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they
> > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not need
> > to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. Thanks
> > for enduring me.
>
> From the point of security updates, SuSE ist terrible. E.g., now you
> won't get an updated version of sudo for an one-year-old SuSE6.4, you
> would have to upgrade the whole installation or compile sudo yourself.
>
> The apt-get - system makes *much* less work.
OK, I dislike distro-advocacy of any form, but here be 3 areas of
difference:
* Contrast the existence of a Debian Social Contract with YaST being
non-Free.
* Take a look at the filesystem layout. IMNSHO Suse's approach has not
altogether been rational.
* Play with apt-get dist-upgrade and point out the ability to track
combinations of stable, secure, testing or unstable distro versions,
smoothly, daily.
And one point to make: you're better off with a distro with which you're
familiar, than one in which you fight the system.
Going from ${RANDOM-RPM-DISTRO} to Debian is a matter of setting aside 20
minutes to read `man dpkg' and `man apt-get', preparing to find configs
based on package name rather than generic terms (/etc/apache/ versus
/etc/httpd) and that's about all you need to get started.
~Tim
--
Move a mountain / Fill the ground |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Take death on wheels / Re-create the land |http://spodzone.org.uk/
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
also sprach Juha J?ykk? (on Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:03:41AM +0300): > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. this isn't an answer, but install Debian, then change /etc/issue as well as /etc/motd to suggest SuSE, and trust me, none of your superiors are going to get it :) martin; (greetings from the heart of the sun.) \ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:"; net@madduck -- 1-800-psych hello, welcome to the psychiatric hotline. if you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 5 and 6. PGP signature
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Should this be on the list or per mail only? On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote: > (off topic) > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. > Thanks for enduring me. >From the point of security updates, SuSE ist terrible. E.g., now you won't get an updated version of sudo for an one-year-old SuSE6.4, you would have to upgrade the whole installation or compile sudo yourself. The apt-get - system makes *much* less work. HTH Martin -- PGP/GPG encrypted mail preferred, see header ,-- | Nur tote Fische schwimmen mit dem Strom `--
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Hi, On Mon, 16 Jul 2001, [ISO-8859-1] Juha Jäykkä wrote: > (off topic) > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they That is a strong point. If you are the sysop and you know Debian and do not know SuSE, it is better for all of you to get Debian (the best tool is the tool you know how to use). Greetz, Sebastiaan > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. > Thanks for enduring me. > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
(off topic) Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. Thanks for enduring me. -- --- | Juha Jäykkä, [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | home: http://www.utu.fi/~juolja/ | ---
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Am 16.07.2001 10:03 Uhr schrieb Juha Jäykkä unter [EMAIL PROTECTED]: > (off topic) > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. > Thanks for enduring me. Hi Juha, I´ve strongly used both distros. "have" because i don´t use SuSE anymore for the following reasons: Ease of administration: Try to upgrade an used SuSE x.x with an SuSE x.x+1. It WILL fail! Even try to do this with a fresh SuSE-Installation. The same. But try a: apt-get upgrade && apt-get dist-upgrade with stable, testing or unstable in your sources.list. You´ll be happy! Same for security: CERT announces security problems with bind. SuSE: fetch the rpm from the website (what´s the adress? Ähm, and in which directory is bind? ...) and install it manually via rpm CERT announces another security problem with mutt. Go to the server, search for the rpm, download it ... CERT announces But in Debian: apt-get upgrade && apt-get update (even if the CERT announces hundred of problems) To sum it up for management: TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) is much better the debian way! You don´t have to search the web for rpms every time CERT is crying, you don´t have to install you computer from the scratch every time SuSE updates the distro, due to the lack of good packet management. Hope that helps Florian -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
At 04:44 2001-07-16 -0400, you wrote: >,[ On Mon, Jul 16, at 11:03AM, Juha J?ykk? wrote: ]-- >| Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of >| Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors >| to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I >| need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in >| enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they >| do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not >| need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. >`[ End Quote ]--- > >Also, in a corporate enviroment, never understtimate the CYOA factor. >With Debian, you will be where the buck stop at. There wont be a >corporate contract with RH to cover you when shit happens. SuSe is a >nightmare of non conformity. Debian is text book SysV directory >structure, a great help if you use other Unix systems. Do find out why >your bosses wantr to change from RH, you didnt mention that, depending >on their reasons, you might want to consider other options. If you want >a good suggestion, do present all sides here. but these are the ones >that come to mind between Debian vs. SuSe. I would sayd ignore the 'gnu >free' vs. 'truly free' argument, this is a corporate >enviroment...anyway, hope that helps, odds are it wont. But its my >2cents anyway. --gabe There may be issues with application support - for instance, Debian was our first preference when we selected our distro, but IBM don't support DB2 on Debian, so we had to go for SuSE instead. Geoff. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
,[ On Mon, Jul 16, at 11:03AM, Juha J?ykk? wrote: ]-- | Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of | Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors | to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I | need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in | enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they | do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not | need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. `[ End Quote ]--- Also, in a corporate enviroment, never understtimate the CYOA factor. With Debian, you will be where the buck stop at. There wont be a corporate contract with RH to cover you when shit happens. SuSe is a nightmare of non conformity. Debian is text book SysV directory structure, a great help if you use other Unix systems. Do find out why your bosses wantr to change from RH, you didnt mention that, depending on their reasons, you might want to consider other options. If you want a good suggestion, do present all sides here. but these are the ones that come to mind between Debian vs. SuSe. I would sayd ignore the 'gnu free' vs. 'truly free' argument, this is a corporate enviroment...anyway, hope that helps, odds are it wont. But its my 2cents anyway. --gabe -- "It's not brave if you're not scared." -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote: > (off topic) > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > Who's administering the boxen, you or them? If the answer is you, or other people who know Debian, then just remind them of the one truth in security: A system is only as secure as the administrator's knowledge of the system. I'm sure you can find a similar sentence in almost any security publication. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Martin Hermanowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Should this be on the list or per mail only?
I don't know why it's on debian-secure, that's for sure.
> On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote:
> > (off topic) Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in
> > favour of Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my
> > superiors to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like
> > to do. I need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in
> > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they
> > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not need
> > to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. Thanks
> > for enduring me.
>
> From the point of security updates, SuSE ist terrible. E.g., now you
> won't get an updated version of sudo for an one-year-old SuSE6.4, you
> would have to upgrade the whole installation or compile sudo yourself.
>
> The apt-get - system makes *much* less work.
OK, I dislike distro-advocacy of any form, but here be 3 areas of
difference:
* Contrast the existence of a Debian Social Contract with YaST being
non-Free.
* Take a look at the filesystem layout. IMNSHO Suse's approach has not
altogether been rational.
* Play with apt-get dist-upgrade and point out the ability to track
combinations of stable, secure, testing or unstable distro versions,
smoothly, daily.
And one point to make: you're better off with a distro with which you're
familiar, than one in which you fight the system.
Going from ${RANDOM-RPM-DISTRO} to Debian is a matter of setting aside 20
minutes to read `man dpkg' and `man apt-get', preparing to find configs
based on package name rather than generic terms (/etc/apache/ versus
/etc/httpd) and that's about all you need to get started.
~Tim
--
Move a mountain / Fill the ground |[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
Should this be on the list or per mail only? On Mon, Jul 16, 2001 at 11:03:41AM +0300, Juha Jäykkä wrote: > (off topic) > Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of > Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors > to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I > need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in > enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they > do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not > need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. > Thanks for enduring me. >From the point of security updates, SuSE ist terrible. E.g., now you won't get an updated version of sudo for an one-year-old SuSE6.4, you would have to upgrade the whole installation or compile sudo yourself. The apt-get - system makes *much* less work. HTH Martin -- PGP/GPG encrypted mail preferred, see header ,-- | Nur tote Fische schwimmen mit dem Strom `-- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
aargh... I am being asked to change to SuSE
(off topic) Anyone care to help me: I need some _strong_ points in favour of Debian, against SuSE. No crap, please. I need to presuade my superiors to turn from RH to Debian instead of SuSE as they would like to do. I need strong evidence in favour of Debian if I am to succeed in enforcing it. I do not know SuSE myself, so I cannot fight them (they do not know Debian, but they are the ones who decide - they do not need to) alone. I only care for security/administrability issues now. Thanks for enduring me. -- --- | Juha Jäykkä, [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | home: http://www.utu.fi/~juolja/ | --- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
