Re: any substitute for x window system?
2009/6/24 Lisi Reisz : > On Wednesday 24 June 2009 13:02:19 明覺 wrote: >> I have ended the discussion, > > So this email was not from you??? I guess 'discussion' != 'thread' > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
On Wednesday 24 June 2009 13:02:19 明覺 wrote: > I have ended the discussion, So this email was not from you??? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
2009/6/24 Neal Hogan : > 2009/6/24 明覺 : >> 2009/6/24 Neal Hogan : >>>>> >>>> >>>> thanks for your advice! But I have decided to spend my life to develop >>>> a "one programming language system", that's my ideal. >>> >>> What kind of advice are you looking for? One that agrees with you? If >>> so, I think you've received it (buried in the mass amount of >>> responses, no doubt). >>> >>> 1) "it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?" >>> -yes and you were offered various suggestions, but of course >>> there is X that must be dealt with. So, you can have you wm/de without >>> a GUI . . . yikes! >>> >>> 2) "any substitute for x window system?" >>> - not at the moment. That is, there are none out there now. So, >>> you're welcome to develop one yourself/ Although, there is really no >>> need for one with regard to your project. >>> >>> 3) (In general) is it possible to have an OS independent of everything >>> non-C/C++? >>> - yes (with various qualifications) >>> >>> Other than that, I see no reason for you to continue this discussion >>> (here, anyway), for you received responses from many, many folks and >>> you have not provided any more/new insight into your project. We've >>> simply read that you have it over and over (along with redundant >>> "advice"). You have your ideals and appear to be quite steadfast about >>> them. Again, I wish you luck. >> I have ended the discussion, but you continued it again, please take >> back your reply, I do not need your summary. > > . . . . then stop responding to every response (including this one). > Also, expect more to come. > > Oh ya . . . I take back my reply. good > > >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) >>>> Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl >>>> 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org >>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact >>>> listmas...@lists.debian.org >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) >> Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl >> 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 >> > -- Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
2009/6/24 明覺 : > 2009/6/24 Neal Hogan : >>>> >>> >>> thanks for your advice! But I have decided to spend my life to develop >>> a "one programming language system", that's my ideal. >> >> What kind of advice are you looking for? One that agrees with you? If >> so, I think you've received it (buried in the mass amount of >> responses, no doubt). >> >> 1) "it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?" >> -yes and you were offered various suggestions, but of course >> there is X that must be dealt with. So, you can have you wm/de without >> a GUI . . . yikes! >> >> 2) "any substitute for x window system?" >> - not at the moment. That is, there are none out there now. So, >> you're welcome to develop one yourself/ Although, there is really no >> need for one with regard to your project. >> >> 3) (In general) is it possible to have an OS independent of everything >> non-C/C++? >> - yes (with various qualifications) >> >> Other than that, I see no reason for you to continue this discussion >> (here, anyway), for you received responses from many, many folks and >> you have not provided any more/new insight into your project. We've >> simply read that you have it over and over (along with redundant >> "advice"). You have your ideals and appear to be quite steadfast about >> them. Again, I wish you luck. > I have ended the discussion, but you continued it again, please take > back your reply, I do not need your summary. . . . . then stop responding to every response (including this one). Also, expect more to come. Oh ya . . . I take back my reply. >> >> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) >>> Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl >>> 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 >>> >>> >>> -- >>> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org >>> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact >>> listmas...@lists.debian.org >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) > Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl > 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
2009/6/24 Neal Hogan : >>> >> >> thanks for your advice! But I have decided to spend my life to develop >> a "one programming language system", that's my ideal. > > What kind of advice are you looking for? One that agrees with you? If > so, I think you've received it (buried in the mass amount of > responses, no doubt). > > 1) "it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?" > -yes and you were offered various suggestions, but of course > there is X that must be dealt with. So, you can have you wm/de without > a GUI . . . yikes! > > 2) "any substitute for x window system?" > - not at the moment. That is, there are none out there now. So, > you're welcome to develop one yourself/ Although, there is really no > need for one with regard to your project. > > 3) (In general) is it possible to have an OS independent of everything > non-C/C++? > - yes (with various qualifications) > > Other than that, I see no reason for you to continue this discussion > (here, anyway), for you received responses from many, many folks and > you have not provided any more/new insight into your project. We've > simply read that you have it over and over (along with redundant > "advice"). You have your ideals and appear to be quite steadfast about > them. Again, I wish you luck. I have ended the discussion, but you continued it again, please take back your reply, I do not need your summary. > > >> >> >> -- >> Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) >> Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl >> 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 >> >> >> -- >> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org >> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org >> >> > -- Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
>> > > thanks for your advice! But I have decided to spend my life to develop > a "one programming language system", that's my ideal. What kind of advice are you looking for? One that agrees with you? If so, I think you've received it (buried in the mass amount of responses, no doubt). 1) "it possible to install a desktop-manager without python and perl?" -yes and you were offered various suggestions, but of course there is X that must be dealt with. So, you can have you wm/de without a GUI . . . yikes! 2) "any substitute for x window system?" - not at the moment. That is, there are none out there now. So, you're welcome to develop one yourself/ Although, there is really no need for one with regard to your project. 3) (In general) is it possible to have an OS independent of everything non-C/C++? - yes (with various qualifications) Other than that, I see no reason for you to continue this discussion (here, anyway), for you received responses from many, many folks and you have not provided any more/new insight into your project. We've simply read that you have it over and over (along with redundant "advice"). You have your ideals and appear to be quite steadfast about them. Again, I wish you luck. > > > -- > Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) > Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl > 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > > -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 7:21 PM, Norbert Zeh wrote: > On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:22:36AM +0800, 明覺 wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: >> > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:58:22AM +0800, 明覺 wrote: >> >> I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the >> >> xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any graphics >> >> system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window system? thanks >> > >> > I think that you'll find that you need to start writing things from >> > scratch yourself. Since debian requires perl (e.g for debconf), you'll >> > be better off with NetBSD. Then, write a program in C that looks at >> > every non-binary file to see if what language its in. >> > >> > Can you tolerate shell scripts? If not, you'll have to write a C-based >> > initscript. This may be easier on BSD since it doesn't use SysVinit. >> > >> > Take away the ideological furvor. It would be an excellent learning >> > experience to rewrite, from scratch, everything in NetBSD that is not C. >> > It would be very hard with Debian since every time you update, you'll >> > have to do it all over again. >> thanks, I got a better choice, the assembly language programmed OS - >> MikeOS, I prefer assembly to C/C++. > > So, to summarize some of your earlier posts: you want to recreate an > entire OS in C/C++ or preferably assembly, including a replication of > GUI functionality such as the one provided by X11-based desktop systems, > and you'll probably want to do this alone because you won't accept help > from somebody who says that languages that have built-in garbage > collection, powerful string processing facilities, and ways to express > high-level concepts more succinctly than C/C++ may be the better tool > for some (major) parts of the job. Well, I happily expect the release > of its first beta by 2050, by which time most of us will have spent our > lives making *meaningful* contributions in our jobs (apart from other > even more enjoyable things). > > Your statement that One Microsoft Way would be okay if it was free > software just underlines that you don't understand what many posters > before have been trying to tell you. There are different tools for > different jobs. Some of my colleagues love Windows and everything else > that comes from M$. I hate it an love Linux because the latter gives me > more choice in the tools I use and allows me to be more productive. (Of > course, there's the whole stability thing and the idealism of free > software, too ;) .) Are my colleagues right? Am I right? The answer is: > both. They chose Windows because it works for them, I chose linux > because it works for me. The goal is productivity and using your time > wisely. > > I know you've claimed before that all programming languages you learned > so far do the same thing. So I feel I need to put some effort into > preventing you from springing this one on me. At a low level, you are > right. They all somehow translate into native machine code. But that's > the only degree to which your statement is correct. Does C have garbage > collection? Does it have regular expressions built into the language? > Does it allow you to pass unnamed code blocks as function arguments such > as Ruby? Does it support Common Lisp's notion of a closure? Does it > support partial function application as in Haskell? The answer to all > these questions is no. Is there something you can do in these languages > that you can't do in C? No - exactly because C and many other languages > are Turing-complete. However, many things are much easier to express, > in a fraction of the lines of code, in higher-level languages than in > C/C++. And that saves time. > > On that happy note, I won't waste more time on this and can only hope > that you'll wake up before you waste your entire life. > > -N > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > > thanks for your advice! But I have decided to spend my life to develop a "one programming language system", that's my ideal. -- Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 10:22:36AM +0800, 明覺 wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:58:22AM +0800, 明覺 wrote: > >> I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the > >> xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any graphics > >> system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window system? thanks > > > > I think that you'll find that you need to start writing things from > > scratch yourself. Since debian requires perl (e.g for debconf), you'll > > be better off with NetBSD. Then, write a program in C that looks at > > every non-binary file to see if what language its in. > > > > Can you tolerate shell scripts? If not, you'll have to write a C-based > > initscript. This may be easier on BSD since it doesn't use SysVinit. > > > > Take away the ideological furvor. It would be an excellent learning > > experience to rewrite, from scratch, everything in NetBSD that is not C. > > It would be very hard with Debian since every time you update, you'll > > have to do it all over again. > thanks, I got a better choice, the assembly language programmed OS - > MikeOS, I prefer assembly to C/C++. So, to summarize some of your earlier posts: you want to recreate an entire OS in C/C++ or preferably assembly, including a replication of GUI functionality such as the one provided by X11-based desktop systems, and you'll probably want to do this alone because you won't accept help from somebody who says that languages that have built-in garbage collection, powerful string processing facilities, and ways to express high-level concepts more succinctly than C/C++ may be the better tool for some (major) parts of the job. Well, I happily expect the release of its first beta by 2050, by which time most of us will have spent our lives making *meaningful* contributions in our jobs (apart from other even more enjoyable things). Your statement that One Microsoft Way would be okay if it was free software just underlines that you don't understand what many posters before have been trying to tell you. There are different tools for different jobs. Some of my colleagues love Windows and everything else that comes from M$. I hate it an love Linux because the latter gives me more choice in the tools I use and allows me to be more productive. (Of course, there's the whole stability thing and the idealism of free software, too ;) .) Are my colleagues right? Am I right? The answer is: both. They chose Windows because it works for them, I chose linux because it works for me. The goal is productivity and using your time wisely. I know you've claimed before that all programming languages you learned so far do the same thing. So I feel I need to put some effort into preventing you from springing this one on me. At a low level, you are right. They all somehow translate into native machine code. But that's the only degree to which your statement is correct. Does C have garbage collection? Does it have regular expressions built into the language? Does it allow you to pass unnamed code blocks as function arguments such as Ruby? Does it support Common Lisp's notion of a closure? Does it support partial function application as in Haskell? The answer to all these questions is no. Is there something you can do in these languages that you can't do in C? No - exactly because C and many other languages are Turing-complete. However, many things are much easier to express, in a fraction of the lines of code, in higher-level languages than in C/C++. And that saves time. On that happy note, I won't waste more time on this and can only hope that you'll wake up before you waste your entire life. -N -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Douglas A. Tutty wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:58:22AM +0800, 明覺 wrote: >> I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the >> xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any graphics >> system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window system? thanks > > I think that you'll find that you need to start writing things from > scratch yourself. Since debian requires perl (e.g for debconf), you'll > be better off with NetBSD. Then, write a program in C that looks at > every non-binary file to see if what language its in. > > Can you tolerate shell scripts? If not, you'll have to write a C-based > initscript. This may be easier on BSD since it doesn't use SysVinit. > > Take away the ideological furvor. It would be an excellent learning > experience to rewrite, from scratch, everything in NetBSD that is not C. > It would be very hard with Debian since every time you update, you'll > have to do it all over again. thanks, I got a better choice, the assembly language programmed OS - MikeOS, I prefer assembly to C/C++. > > Enjoy. > > Doug. > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > > -- Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:58:22AM +0800, 明覺 wrote: > I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the > xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any graphics > system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window system? thanks I think that you'll find that you need to start writing things from scratch yourself. Since debian requires perl (e.g for debconf), you'll be better off with NetBSD. Then, write a program in C that looks at every non-binary file to see if what language its in. Can you tolerate shell scripts? If not, you'll have to write a C-based initscript. This may be easier on BSD since it doesn't use SysVinit. Take away the ideological furvor. It would be an excellent learning experience to rewrite, from scratch, everything in NetBSD that is not C. It would be very hard with Debian since every time you update, you'll have to do it all over again. Enjoy. Doug. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
Am Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:11:59 -0700 schrieb "Todd A. Jacobs" : > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:58:22AM +0800, ?...@k4 wrote: > > > I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the > > xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any > > graphics system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window > > system? thanks > > Perl is now included in the LSB, so there's nothing really wrong with > a perl dependency. However, if you don't want X.org, you might want to > look at TinyX or VNC instead. Great idea :-) The VNC client would then run on which OS? Maybe windows, at least it doesn't depend on python or perl ;-) There is a purpose for nearly every programming language. The kernel is written in C (parts in assembly) for a reason (close to hardware, performance, etc). In userspace the priorities are a little different. Sometimes readability and maintainability are more important than performance, especially in interactive programs (it's completely irrelevant if the reaction time is 0.1 sec faster in a C program if the program is 99% waiting for user input). Video encoders have different performance constraints than mail clients, etc. That's the reason why many programming languages and paradigms exist and why they fit a specific purpose. As "junior-programmer" the OP will have to accept that or at least learn to live with it. Andreas PS: Maybe I'm not in a very good position to understand the OPs needs because I think it's rather useless to compile OO.o for three hours to make it run 1-3% faster as many Gentoo-users do. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: any substitute for x window system?
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:58:22AM +0800, ?...@k4 wrote: > I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the > xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any graphics > system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window system? thanks Perl is now included in the LSB, so there's nothing really wrong with a perl dependency. However, if you don't want X.org, you might want to look at TinyX or VNC instead. -- "Oh, look: rocks!" -- Doctor Who, "Destiny of the Daleks" -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: any substitute for x window system?
* 明覺 (shi.min...@gmail.com) [22.06.09 05:58]: > I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the > xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any graphics > system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window system? thanks > No, there is no replacement for X.org. Usage of the console should be no problem for such a purist... Sebastian -- " Religion ist das Opium des Volkes. " | _ ASCII ribbon campaign Karl Marx | ( ) against HTML e-mail s...@sti@N GÜNTHER | X against M$ attachments mailto:sam...@guenther-roetgen.de | / \ www.asciiribbon.org pgpuxh3Pi65d8.pgp Description: PGP signature
any substitute for x window system?
I'm looking for a pure c/c++ programmed desktop manager, while the xorg is depandent on perl, so i do not like it, is there any graphics system which depands only on c/c++ to replace x window system? thanks -- Gnu.Linux.(Debian|gNewSense).Gnome.(Mozilla|Gmail|Evolution|Scim|Flashplayer|Codeblocks) Microsoft.Windows.(Vista|XP).(QQ|Game|Notepad++) Gcc.Gtkmm.Opengl 初禪言語寂滅，二禪覺觀寂滅，三禪喜心寂滅，四禪出入息寂滅于貪欲心、嗔恚心、愚痴心不樂、解脫，是為無上禪。 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
