GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
After the vote of GR 2006-001, we end up with an unclear situation about the GNU Free Documentation License. While documents using this license are considered free provided they don't use invariant sections, the DFSG don't contain the necessary modifications. Therefore, I'm proposing the following general resolution: == Following the result to GR 2006-001, the following modifications will be made to the Debian Free Software Guidelines: At the end of DFSG #2, the following text should be added: The license may restrict distribution to some kinds of media if it is still possible to distribute the source code and compiled code together on at least one machine-readable medium. At the end of DFSG #6, the following text should be added: As a special exception, the license may forbid use of technical measures to restrict access or use of the software itself. Since this modifies the DFSG, this requires a 3:1 majority to pass. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
* Josselin Mouette ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [060406 09:05]: After the vote of GR 2006-001, we end up with an unclear situation about the GNU Free Documentation License. While documents using this license are considered free provided they don't use invariant sections, the DFSG don't contain the necessary modifications. Therefore, I'm proposing the following general resolution: What's that for, now? Obviously the majority (and also the secretary) wasn't the opinion the DFSG needs to be changed. Could you please just accept the decision being done, and can we go back to work? Cheers, Andi -- http://home.arcor.de/andreas-barth/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
* Josselin Mouette [Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:04:35 +0200]: While documents using this license are considered free provided they don't use invariant sections, the DFSG don't contain the necessary modifications. Because none are needed. Amendment A would have been 3:1 otherwise. -- Adeodato Simó dato at net.com.org.es Debian Developer adeodato at debian.org Create a system that is usable even by idiots, and only idiots will use it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: What's that for, now? Obviously the majority (and also the secretary) wasn't the opinion the DFSG needs to be changed. Could you please just accept the decision being done, and can we go back to work? Well since obviously the majority was of the opinion that the above two additions were compliant with the DFSG, it strikes me as obvious that the DFSG need clarification for those who did not exactly understand them that way. Just for consistency, you know. Regards, Sam. -- DUMBLEDORE DIES IN THE NEW HARRY POTTER BOOK SEVERUS SNAPE IS THE HALF BLOOD PRINCE BILL WEASLEY MARRIES FLEUR DELACOUR AND HIS FACE IS MUTILATED (warning: spoilers) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
On 6 Apr 2006, Sam Hocevar stated: On Thu, Apr 06, 2006, Andreas Barth wrote: What's that for, now? Obviously the majority (and also the secretary) wasn't the opinion the DFSG needs to be changed. Could you please just accept the decision being done, and can we go back to work? Well since obviously the majority was of the opinion that the above two additions were compliant with the DFSG, it strikes me as obvious that the DFSG need clarification for those who did not exactly understand them that way. Just for consistency, you know. Rubbish. The opinion I have seen bandied around is that the two issues are a problem with the GFDL, and have been acknowledged as such by the FSF, and are going to be fixed real soon now ™. Pragmatically, it does not make sense to remove documentation that only has these issues, only to turn around and move them back in. The GR sounds more like a sore loser GR. manoj -- I have seen the future and it is just like the present, only longer. Kehlog Albran, The Profit Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.debian.org/%7Esrivasta/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Le jeudi 06 avril 2006 à 08:07 -0500, Manoj Srivastava a écrit : Rubbish. The opinion I have seen bandied around is that the two issues are a problem with the GFDL, and have been acknowledged as such by the FSF, and are going to be fixed real soon now ™. Pragmatically, it does not make sense to remove documentation that only has these issues, only to turn around and move them back in. Then the GR 2006-001 shouldn't have said the GFDL is free but the GFDL isn't free but will accept documents licensed with it in main as a temporary measure. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
El jueves, 6 de abril de 2006 a las 09:04:35 +0200, Josselin Mouette escribía: At the end of DFSG #2, the following text should be added: The license may restrict distribution to some kinds of media if it is still possible to distribute the source code and compiled code together on at least one machine-readable medium. At the end of DFSG #6, the following text should be added: As a special exception, the license may forbid use of technical measures to restrict access or use of the software itself. First, I disagree that such a change is necessary (if it were, the GR itself would already include the needed changes and require 3:1 supermajority). Second, these amendments would make this example license DFSG-free: Copyright (c) year copyright holders Permission is hereby granted, free of charge, to any person obtaining a copy of this software and associated documentation files (the Software), to deal in the Software without restriction, including without limitation the rights to use, copy, modify, merge, publish, distribute, sublicense, and/or sell copies of the Software, and to permit persons to whom the Software is furnished to do so, subject to the following conditions: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. The Software may only be distributed on 90-colum punch cards manufactured in or before 1975. All security measures in computers where the Software is installed must be deactivated. STANDARD ALL-CAPS DISCLAIMER -- Jacobo Tarrío | http://jacobo.tarrio.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At the end of DFSG #2, the following text should be added: The license may restrict distribution to some kinds of media if it is still possible to distribute the source code and compiled code together on at least one machine-readable medium. I'm made uncomfortable by this, because it would tolerate licenses which restricted distribution to cassette tape. Thomas -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Le jeudi 06 avril 2006 à 09:50 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG a écrit : Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At the end of DFSG #2, the following text should be added: The license may restrict distribution to some kinds of media if it is still possible to distribute the source code and compiled code together on at least one machine-readable medium. I'm made uncomfortable by this, because it would tolerate licenses which restricted distribution to cassette tape. How does it differ from the GFDL requirements? -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006, Jacobo Tarrio wrote: First, I disagree that such a change is necessary (if it were, the GR itself would already include the needed changes and require 3:1 supermajority). Second, these amendments would make this example license DFSG-free: [...] Indeed. Would such a wording be acceptable: As a special exception, the license may forbid use of technical measures to restrict access or use of the software itself, as long as the license author promises that such a clause will be rescinded real soon now. Cheers, -- Sam. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Le jeudi 06 avril 2006 à 09:50 -0700, Thomas Bushnell BSG a écrit : Josselin Mouette [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: At the end of DFSG #2, the following text should be added: The license may restrict distribution to some kinds of media if it is still possible to distribute the source code and compiled code together on at least one machine-readable medium. I'm made uncomfortable by this, because it would tolerate licenses which restricted distribution to cassette tape. How does it differ from the GFDL requirements? The GFDL says you must provide a machine-readable copy. It does not restrict the use of other media. Perhaps it is just your sloppiness in wording, but the words you wrote allow a license which says you may only distribute this on cassette. The GFDL *permits* distribution on cassette, and even treats it as machine-readable, but it does *not* require distribution on cassette. It allows the distributor to choose their choice of machine-readable format, and that's suitable for Debian. Your wording would permit licenses which do *not* allow the distributor to choose their choice of machine-readable format. Thomas
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 06.04.2006 um 19:06 schrieb Sam Hocevar: As a special exception, the license may forbid use of technical measures to restrict access or use of the software itself, as long as the license author promises that such a clause will be rescinded real soon now. That is gum. What is promise? You cannot have such things in the DFSG. It is washing the DFSG out as the amendment would do. Before you make any change to the DFSG, you'd better discuss and vote about Accepting FDL needs/does not need a DFSG change. Vut in my point of view thsi question was already coverd by the GR. Looks like people wanting to have more software currently counted as non-free or contrib in main look for chance to wash DFSG out. Pleas think about the side effects, if DFSG is changed. Greetings Jutta - -- http://www.witch.westfalen.de http://witch.muensterland.org -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkQ1V7IACgkQOgZ5N97kHkdpKgCgpHiqA8DFJH2fRhvU6MWAgM8w oOcAoJdyETp/nak1MqNk+uw03O+byMO0 =hOUr -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
El jueves, 6 de abril de 2006 a las 19:06:50 +0200, Sam Hocevar escribía: Indeed. Would such a wording be acceptable: As a special exception, the license may forbid use of technical measures to restrict access or use of the software itself, as long as the license author promises that such a clause will be rescinded real soon now. Well, no. If the author makes that promise, we may just as well wait until that happens and the package is free. It's not like we've run out of software to package :-) -- Jacobo Tarrío | http://jacobo.tarrio.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Le jeudi 06 avril 2006 à 20:02 +0200, Jutta Wrage a écrit : Before you make any change to the DFSG, you'd better discuss and vote about Accepting FDL needs/does not need a DFSG change. Vut in my point of view thsi question was already coverd by the GR. So a GR can state that pi=3, and if it passes, the fact that has been accepted shall prove a GR could state such a thing? -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Le jeudi 06 avril 2006 à 21:10 +0200, Jacobo Tarrio a écrit : El jueves, 6 de abril de 2006 a las 19:06:50 +0200, Sam Hocevar escribía: Indeed. Would such a wording be acceptable: As a special exception, the license may forbid use of technical measures to restrict access or use of the software itself, as long as the license author promises that such a clause will be rescinded real soon now. Well, no. If the author makes that promise, we may just as well wait until that happens and the package is free. It's not like we've run out of software to package :-) Now, please re-read Manoj's email and think again about what you've written. -- .''`. Josselin Mouette/\./\ : :' : [EMAIL PROTECTED] `. `'[EMAIL PROTECTED] `- Debian GNU/Linux -- The power of freedom signature.asc Description: Ceci est une partie de message numériquement signée
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 10:15:08PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: So a GR can state that pi=3, No. Language, and interpretation thereof, is not an exact science. Math is. -- Fun will now commence -- Seven Of Nine, Ashes to Ashes, stardate 53679.4 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
On Thu, Apr 06, 2006, Jacobo Tarrio wrote: El jueves, 6 de abril de 2006 a las 19:06:50 +0200, Sam Hocevar escribía: Indeed. Would such a wording be acceptable: As a special exception, the license may forbid use of technical measures to restrict access or use of the software itself, as long as the license author promises that such a clause will be rescinded real soon now. Well, no. If the author makes that promise, we may just as well wait until that happens and the package is free. It's not like we've run out of software to package :-) Oh. I really must have been on another planet the last few months. Thank you, -- Sam. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Wouter Verhelst [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Thu, Apr 06, 2006 at 10:15:08PM +0200, Josselin Mouette wrote: So a GR can state that pi=3, No. Language, and interpretation thereof, is not an exact science. Math is. But the interpretation of licenses is something rather different from either math or plain language. Certain institutions (mainly the courts) have a privileged position when it comes to interpreting licenses, so it's quite possible for Debian to be Just Plain Wrong(tm). As I've said on debian-legal, I interpret the GR as claiming a particular interpretation of the license, not a particular interpretation of the DFSG. I acknowledge that the GR itself was ambiguous on this point. I can conceive of no other reasonable way to interpret it, though, as the vote was not set up to require a 3:1 majority. (In my personal opinion, the result of the GR was rather foolish, because it takes a risk that it could simply be false. If so, we've potentially screwed over our users -- very much as if we didn't know the value of pi and so legislated it to be 3.1. But it's a done deal at this point; I'm not trying to rehash old ground, simply to make sure my cards are on the table.) -- Jeremy Hankins [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint: 748F 4D16 538E 75D6 8333 9E10 D212 B5ED 37D0 0A03 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
El jueves, 6 de abril de 2006 a las 22:15:49 +0200, Josselin Mouette escribía: Well, no. If the author makes that promise, we may just as well wait until that happens and the package is free. It's not like we've run out of software to package :-) Now, please re-read Manoj's email and think again about what you've written. Why don't you say directly what you mean instead of invoking another person's email and leave me wondering how to answer? I voted for the GFDL is non-free in all cases. I believe the results of the past GR are absurd, and that they go against the letter of the DFSG. However, I'm against amending the DFSG: I believe that the latest GR should be overturned instead. So, I'm personally going to put as many roadblocks as I can against further developments in that direction. Is my position clear? -- Jacobo Tarrío | http://jacobo.tarrio.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
El jueves, 6 de abril de 2006 a las 23:12:20 +0200, Sam Hocevar escribía: Well, no. If the author makes that promise, we may just as well wait until that happens and the package is free. It's not like we've run out of software to package :-) Oh. I really must have been on another planet the last few months. Is there a shortage of software? Please, people, don't just imply things. Say (write) them and we'll have a civilized discussion. Otherwise we'll have flamewars and endless nitpicking. -- Jacobo Tarrío | http://jacobo.tarrio.org/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: GR proposal - Restricted-media amendments to the DFSG
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rubbish. The opinion I have seen bandied around is that the two issues are a problem with the GFDL, and have been acknowledged as such by the FSF, and are going to be fixed real soon now ™. Pragmatically, it does not make sense to remove documentation that only has these issues, only to turn around and move them back in. I don't see any support for that interpretation in the text of the GR. It simply states that works licensed under the GNU Free Documentation License that include no invariant sections do fully meet the requirements of the Debian Free Software Guidelines. If it were simply that we expect the issues to be resolved I would expect to find (a) a sunset clause (e.g., in a year we'll revisit the issue) and (b) a delineation of the problems we expect to see fixed. The GR sounds more like a sore loser GR. I can't speak for the OP, but I do think there's significant ambiguity in the text of the GR. -- Jeremy Hankins [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP fingerprint: 748F 4D16 538E 75D6 8333 9E10 D212 B5ED 37D0 0A03
Final call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006
Hi, At the time of writing, less than two days before the end of the vote, the standing are still lower than expected; here is a comparison with recent years (all but 2006 numbers are the final tally number): === |||Total # of| |Valid|Unique|Rejects|| Multiple || ||Year|Developers|Quorum|Votes|Voters| |% Voting| of Quorum|| --- ||1999| 347 | 27.90| | 208 | | 59.94 | 7.45|| ||2000| 347 | 43.24| | 216 | | 62.25 | 7.74|| ||2001| ?? | ?? | | 311 | || || ||2002| 939 | 45.96| 509 | 475 | 122 | 50.58 | 10.34|| ||2003| 831 | 43.24| 510 | 488 | 200 | 58.72 | 11.28|| ||2004| 908 | 45.20| 506 | 482 | 52 | 53.08 | 10.66|| ||2005| 965 | 46.60| 531 | 504 | 69 | 52.23 | 10.82|| ||2006| 972 | 46.88| 319 | 308 | 31 | 31.69 | 6.57|| === As you can see, we are still shy of the 1/3rd mark. If you have been waiting for the last minute to cast your vote, this is it. I would not advice waiting for the 11th hour, since mistakes happen: people forget to sign their ballot, send it to the wrong address, or have problems with their MUA mangling the ballot; leave it too late and you shall not have time to correct the error. So, if you have not yet voted, go vote. manoj FINAL CALL FOR VOTES FOR THE DEBIAN PROJECT LEADER ELECTION 2006 - --- - --- --- -- --- -- Voting period starts 00:00:01 UTC on March 19th, 2006. Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC on April 8th, 2006. This vote is being conducted as required by the Debian Constitution. You may see the constitution at http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution. For voting questions contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] The details of the candidate platforms can be found at: http://www.debian.org/vote/2006/platforms/ HOW TO VOTE First, read the full text of the platforms and rebuttals.. Do not erase anything between the lines below and do not change the choice names. In the brackets next to your preferred choice, place a 1. Place a 2 in the brackets next to your next choice. Continue till you reach your last choice. Do not enter a number smaller than 1 or larger than 8. You may skip numbers. You may rank options equally (as long as all choices X you make fall in the range 1= X = 8). Make sure you have read the platforms in detail. To vote no, no matter what rank None Of The Above as more desirable than the unacceptable choices, or you may rank the None Of The Above choice, and leave choices you consider unacceptable blank. Unranked choices are considered equally the least desired choices, and ranked below all ranked choices. (Note: if the None Of The Above choice is unranked, then it is equal to all other unranked choices, if any -- no special consideration is given to the None Of The Above choice by the voting software). Then mail the ballot to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't worry about spacing of the columns or any quote characters () that your reply inserts. NOTE: The vote must be GPG signed (or PGP signed) with your key that is in the Debian keyring. You may, at your option, also elect to send a signed, encrypted ballot. - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 52717dc0-26e3-4337-a88b-cc2c260fcb51 [ ] Choice 1: Jeroen van Wolffelaar [ ] Choice 2: Ari Pollak [ ] Choice 3: Steve McIntyre [ ] Choice 4: Anthony Towns [ ] Choice 5: Andreas Schuldei [ ] Choice 6: Jonathan aka Ted Walther [ ] Choice 7: Bill Allombert [ ] Choice 8: None Of The Above - - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The responses to a valid vote shall be signed by the vote key created for this vote. The public key for the vote, signed by the Project secretary, is appended below. -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) mQGiBEP/SzERBADp8wqMGHc8cYdK5LEi7TSYSg6zwvLYzpI+dWklHLm6w475Ufel CLJIC1ergkMySUC4iruHw5n1n7JCXAuiFT2qP3B1E5ZHe7CRHiO0YuAlzDDKszkp GrgSKt0aRvQt94zC8Ql3ajYErJ++I89aGnXWnde/IoXPVVnB9fAKQmgQYwCgg172 srGApAOqw30ZWYAJpFpE8f0EAMd5+LF52i8XDQ/FiWOdXFJmehkZ1VY+P8kSwU6X DUHifzTdP9HRDJc6nDZn1zOPQNlcTWorCeO2g6mehdi4+TCB3y8vSm1gYS4CWu0E dEw3Wji3rvqKbclaV0EjlvTvOSkqK4xeAqG362E5egHXRnEBpIZAExGfpuAQMnhm L/F7A/9F2aAg9BW43jBYow/QLSxnKdPhMX8p1ei25MsHRNtwKObVW9ZDleH6JXZy bBrbW6XaF1PnBskjS2mTxd66nWs59mK5NPkhVnAAbF7OTI1q7Ti34KbjEU6YdzBS UUOvwpHa1ndOpzXfEy90bbyCc/eNoTLXZ6yB7hXRNuT1E38G07Q6RFBMIFZvdGUg MjAwNiAoRXBoZW1lcmFsIEtleSkgPGxlYWRlcjIwMDZAdm90ZS5kZWJpYW4ub3Jn PohmBBMRAgAmBQJD/0sxAhsDBQkAQJmABgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYCAwECHgECF4AA
