Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sun Mar 08 23:40, MJ Ray wrote: How about Shepherds Bush (Central line)? How about accepting that he is the gender-neutral pronoun in English? -- Matthew Johnson signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
Matthew Johnson mj...@debian.org writes: How about accepting that he is the gender-neutral pronoun in English? Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. The pronoun “he” is sometimes awkwardly and explicitly defined for gender-neutral use in specific cases, but it's never the case that “he” is by default understood to be gender-neutral. The English gender-neutral singular pronoun for people, if such a pronoun exists in English, is “they”. If someone disagrees, they are welcome to fight the tide and historical usage, but I think they are fooling themselves. -- \ “Reichel's Law: A body on vacation tends to remain on vacation | `\unless acted upon by an outside force.” —Carol Reichel | _o__) | Ben Finney -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
ma, 2009-03-09 kello 19:37 +1100, Ben Finney kirjoitti: Matthew Johnson mj...@debian.org writes: How about accepting that he is the gender-neutral pronoun in English? Because that's not true; “he” is a male-gender pronoun. While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about platforms and some QA with the candidates? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
l...@liw.fi wrote: While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about platforms and some QA with the candidates? Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position wrt this PC bullshit. So candidates, what do you think about this? -- ciao, Marco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote:
Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position
wrt this PC bullshit.
So candidates, what do you think about this?
[ Just assuming this was a serious question, otherwise shame on me for
keeping this thread alive. ]
1) It costs nothing to fix the text for the next time: it is de facto
boilerplate.
2) It costs nothing in the future to take the request in private with
the poster, to avoid bothering readers with the 12767th iteration
(2 more after Lars wise suggestion) of this discussions.
Note how (1) was fixed a dozen posts ago, with Kurt's prompt reply.
Cheers.
--
Stefano Zacchiroli -o- PhD in Computer Science \ PostDoc @ Univ. Paris 7
z...@{upsilon.cc,pps.jussieu.fr,debian.org} -- http://upsilon.cc/zack/
Dietro un grande uomo c'è ..| . |. Et ne m'en veux pas si je te tutoie
sempre uno zaino ...| ..: | Je dis tu à tous ceux que j'aime
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Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Mon, Mar 09, 2009 at 02:39:46PM +0100, Marco d'Itri wrote: l...@liw.fi wrote: While I agree with Ben, perhaps we could retire this, the 12765th iteration of this discussion, in favor of having a discussion about platforms and some QA with the candidates? Maybe this is a good time to ask the candidates what is their position wrt this PC bullshit. So candidates, what do you think about this? Not that I think this is a particularly important issue, but... My main problem with using he etc. as gender-neutral prononuns is that it sounds really old-fashioned, in en_GB at least. I'm also unconvinced by the new made-up sie, hir, etc. as they're just too uncommon: they sound awkward and the vast majority of English speakers will have no understanding of them, making them pointless. So, both intentionally and by default, I use they and them to cover both singular and plural cases. Some people may complain that they believe singular they to be invalid, but I don't care. English as a language is defined by usage, not by pedants making up and following arbitrary rules. There are lots of discussions of this topic on the net (e.g. [1],[2],[3]), so I'm not going to spend any more effort on it myself. [1] http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-the2.htm [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they [3] http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com I've only once written 'SQL is my bitch' in a comment. But that code is in use on a military site... -- Simon Booth -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
MJ Ray wrote: That treads on the singular they landmine. Also, it sounds like it's the Debian Developer's validity in question. How about Debian Developers may nominate themselves by sending a signed email to debian-vote@lists.debian.org? How about: To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email nominating oneself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists? http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/oneself Also see: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:English_inflection#Forms_of_pronouns According to this page, themself is singular and themselves is plural. The http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/themself pages says According to many this is incorrect and its use should be avoided, however it is also noted to have been in common use for hundreds of years. The issue stems from they http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they which is used as a gender-neutral third-person pronoun, though this use is also considered non standard. More information can be found at the usage notes http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/they#Usage_notes on that page. Personally I don't really care - it is up to the author to decide. I just haven't seen anybody discredit oneself for the job yet ;-). -- Brian May br...@microcomaustralia.com.au -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
Carsten Hey c@web.de wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists a Debian Developers? :) How about To be valid, a Debian Developer can send a signed email nominating themselves to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists? That treads on the singular they landmine. Also, it sounds like it's the Debian Developer's validity in question. How about Debian Developers may nominate themselves by sending a signed email to debian-vote@lists.debian.org? How about Shepherds Bush (Central line)? (I'm not a native speaker.) Noted. Thanks for playing anyway! -- MJR/slef My Opinion Only: see http://people.debian.org/~mjr/ Please follow http://www.uk.debian.org/MailingLists/#codeofconduct -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +, Per Andersson wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary secret...@debian.org wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. Can't women nominate themselves? Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace it by the candidate. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +, Per Andersson wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary secret...@debian.org wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. Can't women nominate themselves? Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace it by the candidate. You mean I can nominate someone else? ;-P (suggested phrasing: To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural idiosynchracies) -- Lo-lan-do Home is where you have to wash the dishes. -- #debian-devel, Freenode, 2004-09-22 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:46:31PM +0100, Debian Project Secretary wrote: Hi, The nomination period for the DPL election is almost over. If you want to nominate yourself as canidate you need to send a signed mail to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. I hereby nominate myself as a candidate in the DPL election 2009. Platform to follow shortly. Apologies for leaving this so late: I've been unsure whether or not I wanted to stand again this year, but after a lot of pestering by friends I've decided I should. If elected, I will be appointing an assistant to help with the workload. Luk Claes has volunteered to be that person, and I thank him for that. :-) -- Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.st...@einval.com Into the distance, a ribbon of black Stretched to the point of no turning back signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +, Per Andersson wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary secret...@debian.org wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. Can't women nominate themselves? Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace it by the candidate. (suggested phrasing: To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists I only noticed the he, but himself is of course also a problem. Thank you for the suggestion. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 01:36:04PM +, Steve McIntyre wrote: On Fri, Mar 06, 2009 at 06:46:31PM +0100, Debian Project Secretary wrote: Hi, The nomination period for the DPL election is almost over. If you want to nominate yourself as canidate you need to send a signed mail to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. I hereby nominate myself as a candidate in the DPL election 2009. Platform to follow shortly. Your nomination has been received and is valid. Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Kurt Roeckx k...@roeckx.be wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:11:16PM +0100, Kurt Roeckx wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +, Per Andersson wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary secret...@debian.org wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. Can't women nominate themselves? Of course they can. I will be more careful next time, and replace it by the candidate. (suggested phrasing: To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists I only noticed the he, but himself is of course also a problem. Thank you for the suggestion. Thanks for listening and taking this issue seriously. Best regards, Per Kurt -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: You mean I can nominate someone else? ;-P (suggested phrasing: To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural idiosynchracies) a Debian Developers? :) -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 10:53:17AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote: On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 02:18:03PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developers can send a signed email in which they nominate themselves, to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org lists this nicely avoids gender issues while not having to use single plural idiosynchracies) a Debian Developers? :) can? lists? How about... In order for their self-nominations to be considered valid, Debian Developers must send a GPG-signed email in which they nominate themselves to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org mailing list. -- Luca Filipozzi, Director of Operations, UBC Electrical and Computer Engineering -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary secret...@debian.org wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. Can't women nominate themselves? Best regards, Per -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian Project Leader Election 2009: Final call for nominations.
On Sat, Mar 07, 2009 at 12:53:10AM +, Per Andersson wrote: On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 5:46 PM, Debian Project Secretary secret...@debian.org wrote: To be valid, a Debian Developer needs to send a signed email in which he nominates himself to the debian-vote@lists.debian.org list. Can't women nominate themselves? Clearly the Project Secretary's mail was a clever troll intended to trick our female developers into standing for DPL. -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/ slanga...@ubuntu.com vor...@debian.org -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-vote-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
