Re: Debian Women Introduction

[Kevin Mark]

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 07:34:32PM +0300, Yehuda Korotkin wrote:
>Hello Brenda J. Butler,
>Thanks for the detailed email ! :-)
>>> young people today (everywhere), are just not interested in typing to 
> write
>programs or communicate.
>-- Scary to imagine where this could lead ...
>We (all of us) can initiate process that will motivate contribution to 
> community
>from schools. 
>What the difference between contributing a code and volunteer some-where? 
>Some people can volunteer, some people can write brilliant things (See 
> value "Linus
>Torvalds", can anyone say that it be better to him volunteer gardening 
> instead of
>writing code?)
>>> So I hope this helps!  
>Course it helped a lot! Lots and lots of thanks!
>Soon I will send email to groups specified. 
>Thanks a lot!

Each act of volunteering contributes to the people and task and to your own 
self-education.
-K


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140618084733.GA25538@compaq

Re: Debian Women Introduction

[Kevin Mark]

 From: Miriam Ruiz 
To: debian-women  
Cc: Yehuda Korotkin ; debian-events...@lists.debian.org 
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2014 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Debian Women Introduction
 

2014-06-14 9:44 GMT+02:00 Kevin Mark :

> Hi Yehuda and Brenda,
> That's great info that you provided.
> Just a few more bits.
> There is an Organization 'Open Hatch', they typically visit campuses in the US
> and do 'on boarding' for various open source projects by doing a presentation
> about what Open sourcce is and about the community. One of the co-founders
> (Asheesh aka Paulproteous) is a DD (debian developers), so this is a good
> person to contact. He might do a video session or might have pointers as to a
> contact in .il. Either way, its has good stuff to browser at their website.
> You can chat on IRC at #openhatch on irc.freenode.net

I have the feeling that in this particular case, at least, it would be
a good thing if a woman or a girl could be the one to video
conference, if that could be done. I think that is reason we got the
request at Debian Women, and I also see the possible benefits from it,
as it seems to be, in fact, a college for women. I understand that if
it is an in-person activity, such as visiting a campus, you will have
to do by whomever is available, male or female, and that makes totally
sense. That constraint is broken when we're talking about video
conferences, so in my opinion it would be nice if some woman or girl
would be able to do it. In the case that it was not possible, we might
maybe want to have an internal debate on how to make it possible for
future situations.

Greetings,
Miry


Hola Miry,
yes, I agree. The co-founder is female,  as well as other people involved with 
OH. So this seems very possible, scheduling permitting.
-K

Re: Debian Women Introduction

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Jun 13, 2014 at 01:52:20PM -0400, Brenda J. Butler wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Yehuda,
> 
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 10:17:22AM +0300, Yehuda Korotkin wrote:
> > Hello Debian Women,
> > 
> > My name is Yehuda Korotkin and I teach technologies in one of leading
> > colleges for women in Israel.
> > 
> > I thought about the possibility of introduce Debian and the Debian
> > community to the girls that i teach.
> > 
> > Our girls will install Debian Linux for the first time in their lives next
> > week. I would like to take them on a journey in the Debian world (from
> > installation to community behind code). And give them a feeling of welcome
> > and belonging to Debian.
> > 
> > I think would be fun and interesting to make a video conference call with
> > community and give them a general explanation about Debian, introduce them
> > to the community and get them welcome to the world of Debian
> > 
> > We could allocate up to 45 minutes for this conference.
> > The study hours are GMT+2 (Jerusalem Time) between Sun-Thu 10:00-19:00.
> > 
> > I hope that in a soon will be more active profiles on
> > https://www.debian.org/women/profiles/
> > 
> > 
> > So, What do you say ?
> > Pros?
> > Cons?
> > 
> > >>> Your opinion is important to me, tell me what you think
> > 
> > -- 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Yehuda Korotkin
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > web www.korotkin.co.il
> > 
> > mobile +972 (50) 414-6444
> > 
> > email yeh...@korotkin.co.il
> ---end quoted text---
> 
> 
> Great that you are introducing your students to Debian!
> 
> I'm not a big part of Debian aside from being a devoted user, but I'd
> like to let you know about how Debian works in terms of
> communications.
> 
> Having a video conference like this is extremely unusual for the
> Debian organization.  Mostly the users and developers use email, irc
> and other non-synchronous means for virtually all communication.  Once
> in a while, there is a conference and some Debian people will meet in
> person.  Mainly, the communications are not about introducing Debian -
> the people communicating are already using Debian.  There is very
> little in the way of introductions/recruitment aside from the
> web pages that describe Debian (www.debian.org and the wiki).
> 
> I can see the value in making the introduction to the students more
> interactive than the usual Debian communications though.  A lot of
> people, esp. young people today (everywhere), are just not interested
> in typing to write programs or communicate.
> 
> You have contacted a very good group in terms of getting a response
> for talking to women (debian-women).
> 
> In addition, there are some groups among Debian that support "events".
> These people go to non-Debian conferences (that are willing to have
> them) and promote Debian there.
> 
> I think it might be worth sending an email to those lists (usually
> called debian-events-???, like debian-events-na, etc).  These people
> are used to receiving requests similar to what you want and are
> experienced in this kind of communication.  Since you are willing to
> do a video conference, then probably anyone anywhere in the world can
> help you - they don't have to be in your region.  It would help the
> person who will be introducing Debian to know a bit about the
> background of their audience.
> 
> In terms of making the talk interesting to your students, these
> groups can also get some items like stickers or t-shirts to sell
> or give to the students.  Normally they bring them to the event;
> I'm not sure if it will be possible to ship stuff like that to
> another country.  Debian has pretty much no marketing budget.
> 
> So I hope this helps!  You can see a list of Debian mailing lists
> here:
> 
> https://www.debian.org/MailingLists/subscribe
> 
> and here is the list of mailing lists with "events" in the name:
> 
> debian-events-eu europe
> debian-events-ha hispanic america
> debian-events-na north america
> debian-events-nl netherlands
> 
> I see also the lists with "dug" in the name (Debian user group,
> maybe) help to coordinate events in their regions:
> 
> debian-dug-byBelarus
> debian-dug-ieireland
> debian-dug-inindia
> debian-dug-mxmexico
> debian-dug-quebecquebec
> 
> You can also connect with the #debian irc chat on oftc.  It would
> be closer to the kind of communications that Debian users are
> accustomed to.  See https://www.debian.org/support and search for
> "On-line Real Time Help Using IRC" for more info.
> 
> However, that channel is not really for social chitchat or general
> introductions.  It is more for solving specific problems that you
> might run into while installing or using Debian.  You can get
> almost-real-time help from there.  So it might be useful while your
> students are actually doing their install.
> 
> 
> Does anyone else have anything to add?
> 
> 
> So I hope I haven't misrepresented Debian ... I have copied this
> email to debian

Re: women mentoring project

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 05:15:59PM -0700, Emily Schleiner wrote:
>Hello,
>I'm trying to sign up for the women mentoring project as described here: 
>                    [1]http://www.debian.org/women/mentoring.en.html
>Does this project still exist?  I emailed the mentoring list but the email 
> is
>rejected...
>Thanks for any tips,
>Emily
I dont recall anything recent? But I might be mistaken. Someone involved might 
know. You might want to look into 'Open Hatch' as a way to gain some exposure 
to making a contribution. (#openhatch on irc.freenode.net and a website)
-kevix


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140529002845.GA12301@compaq

Re: Mini-Debconf Barcelona videos now available

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 07:52:40PM -0400, Tássia Camões wrote:
> Hello!
> Mini-Debconf Barcelona videos are now available, enjoy it!
> 
> http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2014/mini-debconf-barcelona/
> 
> Thank you very much for all those who make this adventure possible.
> 
> If you also want to thank the videoteam, the orgateam, Debian Women,
> or the Universe, for converging and bringing us together in Barcelona,
> please do it!
> 
> https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Projects/MiniDebconf-Women/2014/Thanks
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tassia.
> 
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
> Archive: 
> https://lists.debian.org/caeabuyqc8jy9uatlrekuqowh59ktv7bvnk48mcvxzvcqstg...@mail.gmail.com

I've started to watch the videos. Its superawesome. The event, the
videos, the talks. Moar mini-debconf-women events!

-kevix


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20140404023356.GA17823@compaq

Re: [Debconf-team] A/V opt-out for speakers (Re: Thinking of organising a special mini-debconf

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 07:20:58AM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> 
> The main reason to attend a talk in person, rather than just watching it on
> the video stream, is to be able to participate.  If the talk is being video
> taped, and you don't want to be on video, you obviously aren't going to be
> reaching for the microphone, so there's no reason you need to be in the
> room.

If someone is mute, has anxiety issues, privacy issue  or medical issue, this
can affect their willingness and ability to 'reach for the microphone'. Using
IRC or providing a surrogate person to convey their questions would help this
situation. That surrogate can be handed a written question or vocally convey a
question into the ear.
-K


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20130822191425.GB5249@localhost

Re: DebIan-Women

[Kevin Mark]

(comments added between '-')

From: Angela Kahealani 
To: Angela Fuß ; debian-women 
 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: DebIan-Women


On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 01:03:10AM +0200, Angela Fuß wrote:
> Dear Angela,

Aloha sister Angel :-)

> > So, Ladies, it's time to lead. In traditional culture, it is the
> > wise feminine (within both men and women)   which gives culture and
> > society its direction, whereas the masculine "doer" within both men
> > and women, implements the ideals.   Thus, the most important role of
> > participation for Debian Women, is to constructively guide and
> > initiate "in which direction should we be growing?"
> 
> Wow! What an inspiring and distinct mail you wrote!
> I think this is great input for the debian community!

We each do what we can to contribute to the blessing of and for all :-)

> My question is:
> Instead of having a Mini DebConf with only female speakers how would it be to 
> have the upcoming DebConfs be prepared and led only by women? Following the 
> question you came up with: In which direction should we be growing?

I'm going to pass on this question in the practical sense,
in that I won't be attending, so I'll skip planning it.
I did habitually attend USENIX through the mid 80's, but I'm
not much experienced with modern conventions / conferences. 

I think that one of my points was about the feminine in
both men and women, as we saw recent events here in DW list
initiated by men who expressed interest in the welfare of DW,
so no, I think that a sex or gender based in/ex-clusion is
counter to my whole point. 

It is that people have preconceptions and prejudice about
the spirits in the bodies, based on the bodies, which I was
trying to guide people to stop focussing upon. i.e. it's not
about which body somebody has but that there be some consciousness
and discussion about incorporating feminine values in all we do.

are there 'ying' and 'yang' values that Debian as a community embraces?
if there are more 'ying' values that our organizational structure can 
incorporate 
as well as individual members? And add them to our documentation and NM 
procedure.
-
It is the balance which brings harmony and success both within
us as individuals, and between us in relating, whether individually
or professionally.

> Would that work? How would it be?

It would be different for each individual, for we all
project our perceptions as an overlay upon the neutral facts.
Likewise individual goals and motivations may be personal,
as in those who seek acknowledgement or recognition for their
efforts, and that may be the case for many women,
overcoming a history of devaluation or invalidation
from men in their experience / environment. For many women
it won't feel safe to "present" in a predominantly yang environment.

---
can you suggest what a 'yang' environment contains, how we can avoid it, 
and what a 'ying' one would contain and how this can be incorporated?
---

It is traditional in all gatherings that 85% of attendees
are there for what they can *get* *from* others, and only
15% are there to *give* to / for the group. 

The whole new paradigm of life is to spontaneously in the moment be
creative as your own spirit motivates you, and give freely thereof in the
open source sense, from which we then all maximally benefit, so really,
the question for each individual is, what would *I* like to share at the
conference? Independent of sex or gender :-)

Would it useful to have attendees at debconf have a pentabarf field 
for 'what I plan to share/contribute'? 


Perhaps rather than a female bodies conference, what would be useful
is to include presenters addressing feminine values amongst the
various subjects addressed at conference.
--
if there was a listing of 'ying' and 'yang' values addressed by speakers would 
that be useful? I have no idea what that list would entail.
---

 As an example, aside from
the productivity software we all make use of, one of the categories of
occupation of people's attention and energies is "games"... and there is a
huge difference between the kind which men enjoy versus women enjoy.
I have no interest in anything that involves guns or killing, so I was
never a gamer until I saw announcement for the Linux client for the game
Second Life(TM).  Well, it has devolved, but spun-off of that is
OpenSim for interactive 3D worlds, which because they included full group
voice chat, were of social interest to me, but again, with feminine values.
http://justincc.org/blog/2013/05/20/announcing-the-first-online-opensimulator-community-conference/
-
would it be useful to add 'ying' and 'yang' aspects to debtags to allow 
people to search more easily for such things?
-
I'm in

Re: Finding a mentor

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 12:32:22PM +0200, Francesca Ciceri wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 12:52:26AM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 08:38:46PM +0200, LaetYboop wrote:
> > > @Kevin : it's better than interesting, it shouldn't it be posted on the 
> > > wiki ?
> > 
> > I, at one time, tried to have it posted there, but I have not checked back 
> > in a
> > few years to see if it was 'edited' away :)
> > if you can think of a page where it might be good to be posts, add a link.
> > 
> 
> I'd like to add the links to them in the next DPN (the Debian
> newsletter): is it ok for you? 

sure. It was feature many years ago in a DWN.

> Another thing: what is the license for the diagrams? I wasn't able to
> find it.

I guess I need to add that. I think I was thinking CC-BY.

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|

Lord, what fools these mortals be!
-- William Shakespeare, "A Midsummer-Night's Dream"


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120407175024.GA14755@horacrux

Re: Finding a mentor

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 08:38:46PM +0200, LaetYboop wrote:
> @Kevin : it's better than interesting, it shouldn't it be posted on the wiki ?

I, at one time, tried to have it posted there, but I have not checked back in a
few years to see if it was 'edited' away :)
if you can think of a page where it might be good to be posts, add a link.

> 
> @Francesca : Hi & Thank you, well I am reading silently since 2008 ^^

 

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|

I always will remember --   I was in no mood to trifle;
'Twas a year ago November --I got down my trusty rifle
I went out to shoot some deer   And went out to stalk my prey --
On a morning bright and clear.  What a haul I made that day!
I went and shot the maximum I tied them to my bumper and
The game laws would allow:  I drove them home somehow,
Two game wardens, seven hunters,Two game wardens, seven hunters,
And a cow.  And a cow.

The Law was very firm, it   People ask me how I do it
Took away my permit--   And I say, "There's nothin' to it!
The worst punishment I ever endured.You just stand there lookin' cute,
It turns out there was a reason:And when something moves, you shoot."
Cows were out of season, andAnd there's ten stuffed heads
One of the hunters wasn't insured.  In my trophy room right now:
Two game wardens, seven hunters,
And a pure-bred guernsey cow.
-- Tom Lehrer, "The Hunting Song"


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120407045226.GA9205@horacrux

Re: Finding a mentor

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 01:22:55AM -0400, Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2012, Kevin Mark wrote:
> 
> >On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 08:43:04PM +0200, María wrote:
> >>Dear all,
> >>
> >>Hello! My name is Mar a and I wrote this e-mail about 5 to 6 months ago to
> >>mentor...@women.debian.org but got no answer so far... I am really 
> >>interested
> >>on debian and so I send it again to this list in case the other list is not
> >>being followed or doesn't exist anymore. Sorry if I am spamming your mailing
> >>list. ^-^
> >>
> >
> >Hi Maria,
> >I made this 2 diagram which might be helpful (or really confusing) about 
> >Debian:
> >this shows some details about Debian packaging and some of the programs use 
> >for it
> >http://mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/debian-package.png
> >this shows the package movement from beginning to end
> >http://mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/newdebian2.png
> 
> These diagrams are great! Kevin, how did you make them?
> 
> -- Asheesh.

Uh, the 2nd one is with Dia, source available. 
I might have the source for the 1st which might be in Inkscape.

I made them with much reading and many queries because I wanted to 'figure out
how Debian worked'. And I like diagrams more than most folks.


-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|

It is undignified for a woman to play servant to a man who is not hers.
-- Spock, "Amok Time", stardate 3372.7


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120406062630.GA30349@horacrux

Re: Finding a mentor

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Apr 05, 2012 at 08:43:04PM +0200, María wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> Hello! My name is Mar a and I wrote this e-mail about 5 to 6 months ago to 
> mentor...@women.debian.org but got no answer so far... I am really interested
> on debian and so I send it again to this list in case the other list is not
> being followed or doesn't exist anymore. Sorry if I am spamming your mailing
> list. ^-^
> 

Hi Maria,
I made this 2 diagram which might be helpful (or really confusing) about Debian:
this shows some details about Debian packaging and some of the programs use for 
it
http://mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/debian-package.png
this shows the package movement from beginning to end
http://mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/newdebian2.png

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120406032947.GA5050@horacrux

Re: Ana Carolina and Monica finally in DD-land!

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 04:30:27PM +0200, Zlatan Todoric wrote:
> Thats great! :D
> 
> Cheers and keep the good work :))
> 
> zlatan
+1
 

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|

To teach is to learn.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120329165341.GA21862@horacrux

Re: Span cleaning effort (done!)

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Dec 11, 2011 at 02:28:28PM +0100, Christian PERRIER wrote:
> Quoting Francesca Ciceri (madame...@debian.org):
> 
> > I'm not completely sure about it.
> > I mean: they are clearly disturbing and stupid messages, and a lot of
> > dangerous trolling (dangerous for the ideas in the messages, not for the
> > trolling itself), but on the other hand I think that it's important to
> > have those messages visible to all, as a warning and reminder of what
> > happened.
> > I know that they are really disturbing, but without that in the archive
> > I, for example, have never known about that situation.
> > 
> > I don't think that in the second stage they have to be tagged as spam,
> > but surely they could be tagged as "inappropriate".
> > 
> > What do you think about it?
> 
> This is really a matter of personal taste. I will tag them as spam but
> I understand that others may prefer tagging as inappropriate.
> 
> To explain my position : this person intentionnally spammed the
> mailing list with hate messages. He also harrassed several d-w
> contributors in private and was "banned" from the mailing list by
> listmasters (however, as he was constantly changing origin mail
> address, this had no real effect).
> 
> I consider that tagging his "mails" as spam is indeed applying the
> list ban.

Spam is unwanted email, and hate mail is certainly unwanted, but I can not
really recall ever seeing a 491 scam or other similar emails containting
targeted hateful messagaes. So it seems like, to me, there are 'hate' spam and
non-'hate' spam where the latter can be deleted without a thought. The former
is evidence of a crime but not one that is useful to expose to the general
public but not useful to cover-up. So I had an idea: keep an archive of the
hate spam and replace the visible archive message with a placeholder that
requires someone to ask to see it. This way the crime scene in preserved but
the hate is not on-display to average viewers. This is just my own thought and
I dont expect it to be adopted. Or maybe the idea can be revised to have merit.


-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|

When I was a boy I was told that anybody could become President.  Now
I'm beginning to believe it.
-- Clarence Darrow


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20111211203422.GB31499@horacrux

Re: Summary of the DW BOF session at DebConf11

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 11:22:19AM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> There was a BOF session at DebConf11 related to Debian Women, kindly
> held by Meike, which I attended virtually thanks to the awesome work
> of the Video Team, and the help of the participants when the video
> link had gone down.
> 
> The minutes are available by using gobby-0.5 to connect to
> gobby.debian.net (debconf11/dc11-dw-bof). I'll make a summary of what
> was discussed so that we can discuss some further tasks as to how to
> go on:
> 
> 1) About mentoring
> 
> The mentoring process has been on-going for a long while, but
> unfortunately has not had enough publicity, so much so that many of us
> thought that it was stalled.  We need to give it more publicity,
> because without it, we can't reach potential mentees. We also need to
> compose some sort of mentoring "curriculum" or templates, to help the
> many people that don't know where to start. Also, it seems that many
> mentees tend to just go away.  Apparently more pinging is necessary to
> know what's going on.
> 
> Tasks:
> 
>  * Create a Mentoring "Curriculum" to help both mentors and mentees.
>  * Advertise the Mentoring project more.
>  * Have someone pinging mentors and mentees to know what's going on.
> 
> 2) "How to help"
> 
> A lot of people want to help Debian, but don't really know where to
> start.  In order to encourage them and keep them collaborating, we
> need to have a straightforward answer to the "Where do I start?"
> question.  A suggestion that was put forward was having
> "Mini-projects" for people to join, that have simple tasks available.
> Of course this means that someone has to lead these projects.
> 
> Tasks:
> 
>  * Think of possible Mini-Projects where people can start contributing
> to Debian without feeling too daunted by the size of it.
>  * Think of other ready made easy answers to the "How can I help?" question

Have you seen this?
https://openhatch.org/missions/

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|

Keep cool.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110817102125.GB5038@horacrux

Re: Okay so we want ....

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 10:07:58AM +0100, Llanos wrote:
> 
> If you or anyone wants a Disapora invite, I have some.
> -K
> --
> 
> 
> 
> Would love to get one, Cheers 

ok, one invite to your email address.
-k
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110424112400.GA26530@horacrux

Re: Okay so we want ....

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 10:41:35AM +0100, Lesley Binks wrote:
> On 22 April 2011 09:30, Kevin Mark  wrote:
> > On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 03:52:10AM +0100, Lesley Binks wrote:
> > 
> >>  diaspora? (has anyone got an account on that yet?)
> >> I can probably have a bit of fun working on these :)
> > 
> > Hi,
> > If you or anyone wants a Disapora invite, I have some.
> > -K
> 
> Yes please Kevin
> -- 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Lesley Binks
Hi,
I will submit your email address to invite form and you should get an email to
signup.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110424034056.GA11970@horacrux

Re: Okay so we want ....

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 03:52:10AM +0100, Lesley Binks wrote:

>  diaspora? (has anyone got an account on that yet?)
> I can probably have a bit of fun working on these :)

Hi,
If you or anyone wants a Disapora invite, I have some.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110422083012.GA24589@horacrux

Re: Beautiful video!

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 08:12:20PM -0600, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> On 22 January 2011 17:48, Amaya  wrote:
> > I'm a woman in OpenSource (FOSDEM 2010)
> > http://blip.tv/file/3212096
> 
> So, uh... it's a .mov, right? Maybe I'm dumb or something, but I can't
> seem to stream it with VLC or totem... Am I missing some Apple codecs?
> file(1) thinks it's a .mov, but both VLC and totem can't stream it. Do
> I need to download all of it first? I think I have Marillat's
> libquicktime1. Perhaps that's the problem?
Besides being a great video
the page has a drop-down menu to 'select format', so you can watch it was m4v
(both SD and HD).
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110123032456.GA26041@horacrux

Re: DebConf11

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 11:07:24AM -0800, Valentina wrote:
> Hi ,
> 
> I would like to aks is anybody coming to DebConf 11? Debian Conference is the
> annual Debian developers meeting, an event filled with coding parties,
> discussions and workshops - all of them highly technical in nature will be 
> held
> in, Banja Luka, Bosnia and Herzegovina, from 24th to 30th July 2011.
> 
> I am from Zagreb (Croatia) and it is the nearest place I can meet some of
> you:-). I wor at IT magazine PCChip, so you can help me write something about
> conference; I can translate on Croatian and publish on website of magazine (or
> in magazine). What do you think? Any help is wellcome:-)
> 
> P.S. I am not a developer, but I still learning Debian and trying to help to
> popularise a Debian women projects (at first here in Croatia)...:-).
> 
> Kind regards,
> Valentina
> 
> Valentina Varošanec
As a person who went to Debconf 10, there are non-technical events like:
the 'debian' wine and cheese party, group outing (we went to Coney Island
beach), a visit to a church that used linux to run its 'pipe organ', some folks
took part in local running/marathon events near Central Park, local bar hopping
and, of course, 'Mao' (a debian card game). :)
Some talks were also not highly technical. So there is much fun to be had by
all who come. 
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110121133607.GD1764@horacrux

Re: [Debconf-team] DebConf anti-harassment policy - contact address

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 06:52:54PM +0100, Alexander Reichle-Schmehl wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> * Amaya  [110114 20:09]:
> 
> > > For DebConf, the choice should probably be left to whoever volunteers
> > > to do the work.  Which version is adopted should also be left to them.
> > > 
> > > Amaya and Patty: do you want to use this address for DebConf ?
> > I am all for it.
> 
> Feel free to ping the publicity team, when and however you would to get
> that announced to a wider public; I would at least habe it mentioned in
> an upcoming issue of the Debian Project News, but if you would like to
> have a sole announcement, we can talk about that, too.
> 
> 
> Best Regards,
>   Alexander

Speaking of announcing this, I was thinking that this info can be added to the
'subscribe' email of debian email lists. Its good to remind folks when they use
debian project resources, our first contact with them mentions our
anti-harrasment stance. That is to say something like:
'Please report any harrasment on this list to b...@debian.org'
cheers,
K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110119095215.GA4881@horacrux

Re: contact address for anti-harassment policies

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 08:19:54PM +0100, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:
> [ Please Cc:-me on replies/follow-ups ]
> 
> I've been asked to declare an anti-harassment policy for Debian Sprints
> and I'll be happy to do that. Discussing with the proposers (Lars and
> Amaya) the obvious question of "who the contact address should be?" has
> naturally arisen.
> 
> I propose to have a single contact point for harassment reports, which
> we can then refer to from various incarnations of the anti-harassment
> policies (e.g. the sprint one, a potentially forthcoming one for
> DebConf, etc.).
> 
> A reasonable role address which came to my mind is
> "antiharassm...@women.d.o".
> 
> Amaya has already volunteered to be behind it, although IMHO it would be
> nice to have at least 2 people behind it, for redundancy reasons. Of
> course they will be in charge of taking reports to the appropriate event
> organizers as needed, and with the appropriate confidentiality, tact,
> etc.
> 
> If you like the idea, we only need someone to setup the needed alias and
> advertise the link on the Debian Women website. I'll then take care of
> mentioning it in the sprint policy.
> 
> What do you think?
> Cheers.

a few point to note:
as someone mentioned, why make it to @w.d.o vs @d.o. The form of harrasment may
not be based on gender, so not sure why it would go to a project email address
that (I am guessing) is for 'debian women' issue??

Why have the link on the DW website only? vs. also the Debian website and even
the Debconf website.  Or other Debian subsites or .net sites?

great to see this initiative.
-Kev


-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101213112427.ga7...@horacrux

Re: Urgent Help...

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Jun 05, 2010 at 07:08:42PM +0200, binz75...@free.fr wrote:
> Selon Lynoure Braakman :
> 
> > On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 3:57 PM,   wrote:
> >
> > > Some month ago I finally found the job of my life: very technical. Now I'm
> > in
> > > some kind of trouble because I need to manage things as if I was working 
> > > in
> > > technical for 20 years.
> > >
> > > That's why I beg for your help - I'm looking for a kind of mentor 
> > > available
> > by
> > > chat for example - to help me go through the very large amount of 
> > > knowledge
> > I
> > > still don't have. I know there is no secret: read, understand, analyse.
> >
> > Sounds like you are looking to find a mentor with technical expertise
> > but you don't
> > specify what kind of technical expertise your job requires of you. Can
> > you tell a
> > bit what you are hoping to learn?
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lynoure Braakman
> > lyno...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> > --
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
> > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact 
> > listmas...@lists.debian.org
> > Archive:
> >
> http://lists.debian.org/aanlktil7sqvaoquzuhwrfo5hvdt9e56ijkshn2uax...@mail.gmail.com
> >
> >
> 
> Yes of course, need debian system administration basic and advance concepts,
> concepts/tips with apache and some apache modules, heartbeat and clustering 
> for
> debian system.
> 
> Sophie

http://debiansystem.info/
This is an excellant book by a Debian Developer. It should provide some help
for Debian system administration tasks.
Cheers,
Kev

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux ==.| http://kevix.myopenid.com..|
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/.|
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/.| http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd,.assume I am subscribed._|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100605183722.ga1...@horacrux

Re: a woman has nominated for DPL

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 08:57:22AM +1100, Helen Faulkner wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Long time no see and all of that.
> 
> I'm a few days behind the news (sick baby - I haven't been online
> much), but I am delighted to see that Marga Manterola has nominated
> herself for Debian Project Leader in the current elections.  It's
> the first time a woman has ever nominated for these elections.
> 
> I think this is a very significant moment, and demonstrates just how
> far Debian has come since the early days of this project.  A few
> years ago having a woman run for DPL would have been inconceivable
> for many people.
> 
> Good on you Marga, and may the best potential DPL win!
> 
> Helen
all seem to be dedicated people from a variety of perspective and should bring
new spirit and interest to the next year in Debian.

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == | http://kevix.myopenid.com  |
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/ |
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/ | http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed _|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100316230929.gb5...@horacrux

Re: searching for a sponsor

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 06:13:42PM +1100, Aníbal Monsalve Salazar wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 01:13:23AM +0100, Karolina Kalic wrote:
> >On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Karolina Kalic  
> >wrote:
> >>I made a package which is not yet in Debian. I uploaded it on
> >>mentors.debian.net, and now I'm looking for someone who would upload
> >>it for me. Its name is pidgin-microblog and its upload will close
> >>532282 bug. It is a collection of plugins for pidgin that implements
> >>microblogging systems to it.
> >>
> >>Thank you in advance
> >>
> >>Karolina  Kalic
> >>
> >>--
> >>Karolina
> >>??WWW: http://www.karolina.in.rs
> >
> >-- 
> >Karolina
> >??WWW: http://www.karolina.in.rs
> >
> >I guess I was a little confusing in my mail. I'm looking for a sponsor
> >for my package pidgin-microblog. If someone is willing to sponsor it,
> >please let me now as soon is possible. I'm impatient to contribute to
> >Debian community.
> 
> I uploaded it with the following change:
> 
> --- debian/copyright  2009-12-17 12:05:01.0 +1100
> +++ debian/copyright  2009-12-17 17:17:35.050613383 +1100
> @@ -12,7 +12,8 @@
>  
>  Copyright:
>  
> -Copyright (C) 2008-2009, Somsak Sriprayoonsakul  and 
> Chanwit Kaewkasi 
> +Copyright 2008, Somsak Sriprayoonsakul 
> +Copyright (C) 2008 Chanwit Kaewkasi 
>  
>  License:
>  
As a user of finch (the console counsin of pidgin), I can't wait to see what 
new plugins this adds!



-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == | http://kevix.myopenid.com  |
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/ |
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/ | http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed _|


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Merits of a meritocracy

[Kevin Mark]

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 11:30:37AM +, Lesley Binks wrote:
> Hi
> 
> http://geekfeminism.org/2009/11/29/questioning-the-merit-of-meritocracy/
> seems a good read
> 
indeed. The idea of advancement though merit alone is not quite true,
certainly. As the article mentions, other people have to notice your work, you
have to promote your work to your social network and, of course, the judgement
of your work has to be without bias. This certainly would effect people who
are shy, quite, not attention-hounds, not pushy, not involved in the social
dynamics of advancement and groups that the majority do not judge fairly.  I
wonder if instead of names attached to contributions, a pseudonomious
identifier was used, to make the background of a person less immediately
obvious. "8898...@debian.org made a good patch" VS. "Jill Hacker of Uganda
added a useful feature" (similar to 'blind audition')
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == | http://kevix.myopenid.com  |
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/ |
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/ | http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed _|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Are there some of you in Munich and Germany ?

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Oct 02, 2009 at 12:11:40PM +0200, Rayna wrote:
> Hey all,
> 
> I'm living in Munich now and am searching for LUGs and especially women groups
> here (or in Germany in general). Except Ubuntu-users.de in Munich and a LUG
> defined as "a regular meeting of old friends around a beer", i found nothing
> else :/ Btw, LinuxChix doesn't seem to have a german branch (http://
> www.linuxchix.org/europe.html).
> Would you have any advises, suggestions, ideas,...?
> 
> Thanks very much in advance.
> Rayna
I think some debian folks are involved (holger)
http://www.olpc-deutche.de

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == | http://kevix.myopenid.com  |
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/ |
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/ | http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed _|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: shebuntu debian project

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 11:17:50AM +0200, Rayna wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm new to Debian-women, that's my first posting on the list ;o)
> 
> I agree with plenty of the remarks made here (Eric's, Miriam's ones and so 
> on).
> I'd like to addsome critics in a constructive fashion. I find a woman-focused
> distribution a bad idea... In other words, creating something focused on a
> stereotype of what woman is is so reducing and sexist. Putting pink or flowers
> or some 'girly' stuff is so, too. There's no A women's unique profile, there
> are as many profiles as there are women in the world. Creating a distribution
> orientated to a special human group is admitting that this group has special
> needs. That is a biased vision. I'm a woman, my background isn't in computer
> science. But I use Debian Sid and Ubuntu and ArchLinux (as well as I can...).
> No pink, no flowers, no poneys, no butterflies.
> 
> If a woman isn't interested in informatics, it's partly because little girls
> read books on stupid princess saved by a very clever prince or dumb stuff from
> that kind. I'm not really sure that creating something special like shebuntu
> will change thet thing. I think that it would be far more interesting for all
> of us that some men stop considering us like helpless children or making
> complexes when, surprisingly for them, we know more...
> 
> Have a nice day,
> Rayna
welcome :)
This thread was great. Someone had an idea, folks got to discusss the issues
with this new idea, and various folks got an (re)education on the recent
sexist/ism meme. If he came away with a little more info and enlightenment and
we did not scare him away in the process :), then the result will be a more
enlightened approach the next time he peruses his goal. Maybe someone can add a
pink-wallpaper package, make a new debian task for some assortment of programs
or links, etc. Maybe his wife can do it :) I would make a suggestion for him to
read about Amber Granger, as she is an ex-newbie, ubuntu user, a women, a wife
and someone who is enganging the Ubuntu community with vim, vigor and
enthusiasm. Read her blog at http://amber.redvoodoo.org/ If your wife can read
the early postings of Amber, maybe she can take the same fun-filled journey!
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == | http://kevix.myopenid.com  |
| : :' : The Universal OS| mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/ |
| `. `'   http://www.debian.org/ | http://counter.li.org [#238656]|
|___`-Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed _|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Good manners, Good tone and welfare of DD's, NM and prospective developers

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 04:32:22AM +0100, Dmitrijs Ledkovs wrote:
> Hello Debian Women
> 
> I wasn't quite sure about the correct list / people to bring up my
> small concern about current Debian's inter-personal relationships.
> 
> There are a few under-age (18 / 21 depends where you are) who are
> possibly want to develop Debian [1]. In addition there are various
> adult people with various moral and ethical standards (What's
> acceptable for some might not be for the others).

I certainly think people who are not familar with the Code of Conduct that Mako
(who is both a DD and a founding member of Ubuntu) made should take the time to
read it. People who contribute on the internet get introduced to its social
norms, and Debian has its own -- like using text, bottom or in-line posting,
etc. Most of these can be learned by reading the 'code' and by the 'nudging' of
folks they interact with. But as you mention, development takes place between
folks who are not necessarily restrained by the same social graces as someone
growing up and in their teens and who is impressionable. That is not to suggest
that 'everyone' or a large percentage of folks behave badly. If someone is
joining Debian Via GSoc, then I'd expect someone to mentor them through this
initial period and help them adapt to the expected social norms. That should be
sufficient. If they try the NM or DM route, they also get someone to give them
pointers as to what to do and not do. So that just leaves random people on the
mailing lists or people who send in bugs, etc. Well I just thought about it and
realized that I left out IRC which is less formal than email and would account
for a larger percentage of what you may have been discussing.  FLOSS folks chat
on IRC is a rough, informal social setting. That is something that might bother
some parents as folks can say just about anything. Not sure what to do about
that as IRC is a social outlet for folks who send their free time on their.
just some thoughts,
K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: a new, very small, debian girl!

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, May 06, 2009 at 01:51:01PM +1000, Helen Faulkner wrote:
> 
> Our daughter Clara was born on 25th April :)
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/hiperactivo/collections/72157617646976748/
> 
> No doubt she'll be using Debian in no time (well, in a couple of years,
> anyway...).
> 


for such a short release cycle, the outcome is quite cute!
I see you've already done some testing on its sound hardware, hope
everything else passes QA.
congrats,
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Collaboration with debian women

[Kevin Mark]

Hi,

On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 07:47:21PM +0100, Laia Subirats wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to contribute in translation, writing documentation, working on
> Debian websites, working on Debian lists, general interaction within the 
> Debian
> project. How can I get involved with this community?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Laia

Free software projects are not very hierachical, meaning that you can
contact directly anyone you want to collaborate with. If you want to do
translations, find a list that deals with the language you can translate
and send an introductory message about your interest and skill level.
Hopefully they will point you towards more information about how they
translate their (website|software). You then proceed at your own pace
and interest level (aka 'scratch your own itch'), gaining skills in the
proceess. If you have other issues once you start your interaction with
various tasks, you can certainly ask here for more guidance or advice.
Also, your question was not very specific, so I could not advise you
with more detail. So if you have a more specific question, ask that.
Hope that helps,
Kev
PS. the debian lists are located at lists.debian.org, search there for
some interesting list and join as many as you like. Most are low
activity lists (unlike debian-user which has more than a 100 posts/day)
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: "Debian women may leave due to 'sexist' post"

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 09:18:00AM +1300, Brenda Wallace wrote:
> 
> i'm shocked by how much sexist crap is posted to the debian-women
> mailing list lately.

Yes.

> it's a magnet for folks who think women shouldn't be here. ... and
> Miry almost on her own replying to it.

This fellow is someone who has trolled in the past, so I ignore his
emails. Is that not what I should do? Miry is doing an admirable job of
trying to educate this fellow but he is not going to change his mind
because someone provide a rational or reasonible argument. 
I try to focus on the emails by non-trolls and help where I can.

-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Duo Core processor 4Gb Ram laptop

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 10:46:57PM +, Diana Scott wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I went to the sales earlier and noticed the latest laptops have Due Core
> processor speed of 2Ghz with 4Gb RAM. I wonder what activities a laptop with
> Duo Core or Centrino 2 with 4 Gb ram can achieve where a laptop with Centrino
> (Pentium M) 1.7Ghz with 2Gb ram with debian 5.0 Lenny or Ubuntu 8.10 cannot do
> equally as good, given the same knowledge for both laptops.
> 
> Diana
due core|2ghz|4gb
centrino|1.7ghz|2gb
hmm. they look similar.
the capabilities are not just limited to processor and ram. For a better
comparison, you would need to know what support they have in the Kernel
for things like graphics card, video camera, usb ports, sound chips,
etc. And then you need to determine what your needs are. For general
use (web surfing, writing, playing music) both are fine. But then again,
I have an OLPC XO-1 and I can do those things with a 7" screen, 128MB
ram and a 400mhz processor. The more powerful task like photo editing,
compiling source code, playing games, and editing video are were you
will see the different in the laptops.
-Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: "Debian women may leave due to 'sexist' post"

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 09:11:22AM +1100, Helen Faulkner wrote:
> Amaya wrote:
> 
> > My sorry attemps to get approval of our
> > project from male developers can be found in the list archives and proof
> > I had no idea what I was doing.
> 
> The process of getting Debian Women going was certainly painful for those who
> were involved in the project very early on.  But I would never describe those
> efforts as "sorry".  They were needed, successful, and are still making a
> positive impact on Debian, in the existence of this mailing list and other
> aspects of the Debian Women project.
> 
> It is a pity that it had to be as painful as it was, though.  One could
> certainly wish for better.
> 
> You and the other early supporters of Debian Women are absolutely to be
> congratulated for your efforts.  Well done! :)
> 
> Helen

+1
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: wish

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 01:36:01PM -0800, toya wrote:
> 
Happy Channukah and winter solstice.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: problems with KDE/KMail

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 10:40:25AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> 2008/12/24 Lisi Reisz :

> 
> To answer my own question, when I googled for the third time, I
> obviously finally asked the right question.  (Sorry to have asked the
> wrong ones before. :-(  ).
> 
> A large number of packages, which includes kdepim, kmailcvt and kmail
> itself, is still the KDE 3.5.9 version, while many of the libraries
> are already KDE 3.5.10.
> 
> So I just have to wait a little more patiently, and hopefully all will be 
> well.
> 
> Lisi
> 
The Debian software release system has more or less 3 streams: stable,
testing and unstable. Software that is intended to be released follows
the path: unstable, then testing, then stable (in 99% of cases). The
path bug fixes take is that they are noted by someone, someone finds a
fix and then someone trusted by debian uploads the new package to
unstable. A fix can take 1 minute, 1 hour, 1 day, or even 10 years as
was recently noted on planet.debian.org.
Luckily a great many happen in less that 10 days by a Debian contributer
or someone upstream. And general advice for unstable users in your
situation on debian-user is 'wait a few days'. But figuring this out is
part of the adventure :)
-k
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: "Debian women may leave due to 'sexist' post"

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:57:03PM -0500, Elizabeth Krumbach wrote:
> I'm sure many of you on the list have already seen this:
> 
> "Debian women may leave due to 'sexist' post":
> http://www.itwire.com/content/view/22320/1090/1/0/
> 
> And much of the related discussion. I'm surprised there hasn't been
> discussion about it on this list. How are others feeling about all of
> this?
> 
Debian is a big group, er, community. There are many developers,
maintainers, translators, and contributers. A large percentage have very
little contact with -devel and just do their bit. But that means they
will never be in a position to be *-ist towards folks in such a public
forum. Then there are the few who post on -devel or -project that made
*-ist comments. So are you saying that the conduct of a few folks on
-devel or -project is sufficient for you to leave? Or an 'insufficient'
response by the DPL? or by other list members? I suspect that you are
leaning towards 'yes' and also Miriam. It would be sad for Debian to
loose folks to such circumstances. I dont know how Debian as a community
can address such an issue. Would you suggest that they be thrown out?
Would there be sufficient support? If there was not, what would that
mean for Debian?

I understand that so far Ubuntu has been good in enforcing its 'code' to
limit *-ist comments on irc and MLs, which I like. I hope its the same
in 10 years.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: before building a debian package...

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 03:54:39PM -0800, Maria Nelson wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Before a program can be turned into a Debian package, it should be build-able
> with just the regular ./configure, make, make install sequence. Is that
> correct?
> 
> Also, when you go to build a package, and it doesn't build, what are your
> options?

you should make sure you have read whatever info the author(s) have
written about building it. Hopefully that did not leave something out.
If they did, file a bug [with a patch] if possible.  There is also the
possibility that the author(s) might have used a different distro and
Debian's version might not be exactly the same, leading to an error.

> Do you contact that upstream author?

I would expect for the packager to do some work before they contact the
author(s). Like what I mentioned above. The next thing is to 'google'
for similar build error message. Find any mailing list where the package
is discussed and possibly any IRC channel. Talking to other folks in a
similar situation might lead to a hint towards fixing the issue. If you
then have some issue that no one else can solve, then contacting the
author(s) would be something to do. At least from my experience in the
FLOSS world, we don't put up artificial barriers for collaboration. You
can't email/irc with the authors of MS word unless you are a large
multnational company. We don't play like that, we share.

It just dawned on me that you wrote this email to DW, so hopefully you
do not confront any unfriendly people in the process of your technical
discussions. I dont recall ever an author being nasty about my asking a
question. Maybe the ocassional troll on IRC :)

> Is that actually a reasonable thing to do? Or do you actually try to
> debug it?

The number of people who get a 'whole in one' in Golf are about the same
as the number of people with 'perfect programs'. And besides, 'hacking'
the code is the only way to grok it. Learning by reading the source.
Its what we do ;)
This is supposed to be fun, if its not, well, why do it?

Have fun and happy hacking.
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: /tmp accidentally filled

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 10:29:50AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 December 2008 10:02:38 Kevin Mark wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your help, Kevin.
> 
> As I said, I have never had to do anything to tmp before.  But it has not 
> cleaned up at boot and the fact that it is 100% full is causing problems.  
> This is a direct result of the mess I created when I messed up my backup.  I 
> have deleted the bulk of the stuff wrongly placed on my root partition - so 
> most things are working fine again - and am left with this 100% filled tmp.
> 
> From what you say, I can safely delete the lot?  After all, if it should have 
> been cleaned up automatically, it can't hurt if I clean it up manually?  

If you have not rebooted your computer, some running process may be
actively using some file in tmp. Also, a 'backup program' may use /tmp
to use while is working on the backup, so it may have left stuff there.
I'd suggest doing:

cd /tmp
du -s -m * .*|sort -n

so you can see  what is the largest items. You hopefully will see a
large directory/file left by the backup program and be able to delete
that first. Otherwise, I dont recall the way to figure out which /tmp
file is NOT being actively used.

HTH
-K

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: /tmp accidentally filled

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 08:46:32AM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> Here's another simpleton question. :-(
> 
> I managed to backup onto my / partition.  I have rm-ed most of the resulting 
> garbage.  But I am left with a 100% full /tmp and df tells me that this is 
> overflow.  I therefore need to do some more deleting.  But I am ashamed to 
> say that I have not explored /tmp as much as I ought to have, so my knowledge 
> about what is usually/meant to be there is scant. :-(
> 
> Which, if any, of the following files ought I to keep and which can I safely 
> delete?
> 
> gconfd-lisi  kde-lisi  keyring-iiiSCk  ksocket-lisi  orbit-lisi  
> ssh-PwasxA2979
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> Lisi
TMP is not usually a place I need to clean. It is used for 'scratch
space' when programs need to work on something temporarily. /tmp is
usually only a few MB in size. On reboot, most Gnu system clean out tmp.
I'd look for some other place to either: remove unneeded files or move a
big file to another partition or medium(SD disk, backup HDD,..)

I use:
cd ~
du -s -m .* *|sort -n

to show me what is taking up space in a certain location like
/home/$user or /var/cache/ then I can see where the big folders/files
are.  This will produce a 2 column output where column one shows the
size in MB of the directory or file and column two show the name of the
file or directory.  so if you need say 100 MB more, you'd use the above
script and find the appropriate file/directory and do something to
alleviate the situation.  I had a full partition situation and my
fetchmail would not work correctly, so I got rid of some MB of junk and
that fixed it.

hope that helps,
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Problem with sound in Lenny installation

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 09:39:58AM -0700, Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
> On 2008-11-28, Amaya penned:
> > Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> >> 2008/11/27 Lisi Reisz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >> > I thought the idea of Debian Women was, at least in part, to give a safe 
> >> > space
> >> > where men wouldn't laugh at you?? ;-)
> >> 
> >> I am never sure. The original purpose was to encourage female DDs, but
> >> I suppose it's nowadays used to discuss all matters enhanced by two X
> >> chromosomes.
> >
> > The original purpose of the list, or its ultimate purpose, is not yours
> > to decide, I am afraid.
> 
> So do you know the original and/or current purpose?  I tend to see it
> as a place to occasionally interact with women who use or develop
> Debian.  I would post more if I thought that matched the actual
> purpose, but my posts would not be specifically about Debian or
> software or hardware, so I haven't done so.
> 
Hi *,
I had an idea about increasing the amount of discussion on this low
traffic list that has a broad purpose (like what Monque said). This list
gets the ocassional boost in contributions when someone posts a question
that awakens some sympathetic chord in the subscribers. So the fewer
their are such questions, the fewer responces. So here is the idea: If
the infamous 'someone' were to think of a 'resonant' topic each month I
think it would lead to more chance for more dialogue. So if 'someone'
were to think of making each month about some topic of interest to
DW("topic of the month"), this would create a point around which people
can respond but it would not disallow other questions ("supportive,
friendly gnu questions and answers"). Maybe this months topic might have
been "differences around the world wrt womens tech job hiring".
my 2 cent (based upon 1990's currency exchange).
-Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: should these be reworded?

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 04:45:14PM +1000, Javier Candeira wrote:
> Kevin Mark wrote:
> > On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:52:19PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 03:17:21PM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> >>> "Our priority is our users" might have originally been "Our priority is
> >>> our male users",
> >> Put your hands in the air and step away from the crack pipe.
> >>
> >>> Could a suggestion to: "make your software more inclusive of different
> >>> users based upon gender, race, etc. when possible" sound too forcefull?
> >> Yes.  For best results, send patches.
> > 
> > At least i got a few useful replys before steve came by with his usual
> > comments.
> 
> Oh, but I think that's completely fair. If a work is free, why should the
> developer be working for you, when anyone could change it? 

I do not believe I made a statement suggesting someone force anyone. I
try to appreciate the volunteer nature of free software communities. I
would only like people to 'consider' the effect that their work can have
in fostering a wider view of humans beyond contentional steriotypes or
maybe just providing options that allow the inclusion of
non-white-males.

>Do you write to publishers asking that Madame Bovary or Anna Karenina
>be changed into men, or Quijote or Hamlet be changed into women? They
>could well do it, you know, the text is in the public domain. But so
>could you, and publish it yourself (or try to convince them to publish
>it).

Public domain works could be remixed if someone wished and people
have created new version of works with changes to bring freshness to the
work or to make other points. Just recently in New York there was a
version of 'Cat on a hot tin roof' with an all African-American cast, and it got
wonderful reviews. But I am limited my question to Free Software and
more specifically ones that have graphics that show avatars or
representation of beings. And software is a place where things are far
more easily changed than with a real world book publisher and the cost
is only in terms of the software designers desire to alter perception.

> 
> I keep being told that sending patches is a better way to gain an upstream's
> heart than asking for features. This should apply to games characters'
> genders as much as to anything else.

If I was able to write patches of Debian quality, I'd consider doing so.
But I only wish the developer to consider using their talent to make an
impact beyond just make a program, to strech their imagination and
consider some user who only sees one type of game character and make
them think about a world where there is diversity and do their coding to
enable that kind of freedom.

> 
> On a side note, but wholly on topic in this thread, there are fabulous games
> with radically well-portrayed women as main characters. Not many, but let me
> cite two: Beyond Good and Evil's Jade is a green-haired teenager saving the
> world (and his uncle, who is a pig: don't ask). Dino Crisis portrays a
> female special forces operative whose proportions do not look enhanced with
> a bicycle pump; she looks... human.
> 
> Beyond Good and Evil is now cheap-ish, and runs reasonably well on wine!
> (after tweaking).
> http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=7929
> 
> Also, the first two Tomb Raider games were fantastic games, said it once
> already, but I will repeat it as much as it needs. The first one is now
> being remade with more modern tech, and I plan to play it again.
> 
> J
> 
Thanks for the game tips. 
Cheers,
K

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: should these be reworded?

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 10:12:04AM +0300, Lynoure Braakman wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:17 PM, Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > "Our priority is our users" might have originally been "Our priority is
> > our male users", not that I think Dev's did it intentionally. So any
> > attempt to add a 'wishlist' feature in a way that makes our software
> > more inclusive of 'all' of our users, sounds like a great suggestion.
> 
> While it is nice to be able to choose the main character gender (and other
> features, as I don't identify well with thin blondes either) it seems weird
> to jump into that conclusion. I mean, books nearly never allow that choice
> at all, there is just both kind of books and no one goes "Eeek, they are
> discriminating against women by having a male protagonist".
> 
> In my opinion, the best way to go about it regarding the game mentioned
> would be for a  technically savvy woman to make a patch allowing gender
> choice.
 
Are you suggesting making a fork with the gender option or trying to get
the patch submitted and accepted upstream? I think the latter is what
other folks suggested.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: should these be reworded?

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:52:19PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 03:17:21PM -0400, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > "Our priority is our users" might have originally been "Our priority is
> > our male users",
> 
> Put your hands in the air and step away from the crack pipe.
> 
> > Could a suggestion to: "make your software more inclusive of different
> > users based upon gender, race, etc. when possible" sound too forcefull?
> 
> Yes.  For best results, send patches.
> 

At least i got a few useful replys before steve came by with his usual
comments.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: should these be reworded?

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 03:22:00PM -0600, Monique Y. Mudama wrote:
> On 2008-07-24, Kevin Mark penned:
> >
> > "Our priority is our users" might have originally been "Our priority
> > is our male users", not that I think Dev's did it intentionally. So
> > any attempt to add a 'wishlist' feature in a way that makes our
> > software more inclusive of 'all' of our users, sounds like a great
> > suggestion.  And anything that does not 'heat the coffee of the
> > cabal' aka invoke flamewars is a good approach. I did not mean to
> > single-out magicmaze, it was just something that crossed my view and
> > sparked the idea. So thanks for the great feedback.
> 
> Warning -- rambling post without concrete answers to follow.
> 
> This is a difficult issue.  If games in general provided a greater
> variety of protagonists, we probably wouldn't be bothered by the few
> that didn't.  One game having a male protagonist isn't a big deal;
> (almost) all of them having a male protagonist is more problematic.
> 
> Then there is a question of how best to spend development time.  If
> the game wasn't written to accomodate multiple protagonists, it may be
> a large (and potentially tedious) effort to add them.  How many users,
> potential or current, will benefit from the effort?  Can that even be
> measured?
> 
> And what does it mean to have female protagonists?  Are the behaviors
> exactly the same as the male protagonist, just with a different body?
> Or do they change, and if so, how?  And if they change, will the
> resulting changes come across as realistic and correct, or patronizing
> and sexist?  Different people might have different answers.
> 
> > Could a suggestion to: "make your software more inclusive of
> > different users based upon gender, race, etc. when possible" sound
> > too forcefull?  -Kev
> 
> As a feature request for particular games, I think it's great to
> submit feedback that you'd like to have more options -- especially if
> you can frame it in terms of people who would actually change their
> behavior based on the change.  In other words, it may be a bit empty
> to suggest that the developers should make changes to their game just
> in case some women would be more likely to play, or feel happier
> playing a game they already play, or because in a nebulous way having
> a female option would make all gamers more aware of gender issues.
> Something more concrete, like "my daughter is interested in your game,
> but is put off by the lack of a character with whom she can identify"?
> Or even better, "I'm a man, but I like to play female characters
> sometimes; I find that enhances the replayability of games for
> me."  I think some number of men might be tempted to submit a feature
> request for an attractive female protagonist, in the case of a
> non-first person view.
> 
> And of course, you have to be careful what you wish for =)  A lot of
> female characters are portrayed in ways that make some women wince.
> Is the adjustable breast size in Age Of Conan a step forward or
> backward in society's perceptions of women?  I'm not sure there's a
> simple answer.
> 
> So ultimately, while I think the intention of having greater variety
> in gaming protagonists is a great idea, I wonder if it's not a more
> complicated request than it seems at first blush.  And I don't think
> it belongs in any Debian developer guide ...
> 
> But, I'm just a random Debian user, not anyone with authority =)
> 

Thanks for the thoughtful answer. It certainly bringings up more
questions. Hopefully one game in Debian can have a female character that
is not a bad steriotype.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: should these be reworded?

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 05:15:10PM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> 2008/7/23 Meike Reichle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I agree with Christian that putting something like this in the dev guide
> > is probably overkill and wouldn't do us much good. If a user objects to
> > playing a male character rescuing a female one I'd consider that an
> > upstream bug rather than a Debian issue. So, getting back to magicmaze,
> > I guess I'd simply send a feature request to upstream.
> 
> BTW, as an strategic matter of fact it is unneeded to say that if
> someone decides to ask upstream to add that feature, what I encourage
> to do, do it politely and with positive arguments, and avoid
> accusations of any kind: it works better. Kinda "Would it be possible
> tho let the player choose the gender of their character? That way,
> female players would identify themselves better with the character and
> the game might be more attractive for them" instead of "Your game is
> sexist, you have to make it gender neutral", which of course would put
> the developers on the defensive side and would do more harm than good.
> I just thought it would do no damage to mention it, although it's
> quite obvious.

"Our priority is our users" might have originally been "Our priority is
our male users", not that I think Dev's did it intentionally. So any
attempt to add a 'wishlist' feature in a way that makes our software
more inclusive of 'all' of our users, sounds like a great suggestion.
And anything that does not 'heat the coffee of the cabal' aka invoke
flamewars is a good approach. I did not mean to single-out magicmaze, it
was just something that crossed my view and sparked the idea. So thanks
for the great feedback.

Could a suggestion to: "make your software more inclusive of different
users based upon gender, race, etc. when possible" sound too forcefull?
-Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

should these be reworded?

[Kevin Mark]

Hi d-w list people,
I was just reading an ITP for magicmaze. It is game with a common theme:
warrior save girlfriend from monster. Would it be 'better' by some
definition to make it and other such programs gender neutral? Reverse
thw roles? Make it possible to choose the characters gender?
Would a formalization in the dev guide or policy make sense?
just wondering.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: article about dw (spanish)

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Jun 24, 2008 at 02:13:26AM -0500, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> On 23/06/2008, Erinn Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Someone mailed me a link to this article and since Marga says some very
> >  nice things about DW I thought I'd pass it on. It's in Spanish, so
> >  hopefully someone with better translation skills than mine can help the
> >  non-Spanish speakers out!
> 
>  http://platinum.linux.pl/~jordi/debian-women-article-argentine-spanish
> 
> Here you go. Hopefully it's not too uneven of a translation. I was
> about to go to bed when I saw this, so please forgive the inevitable
> typos and fatigue-induced mistakes. :-)
> 
> - Jordi G. H.

Great article! thanks for the translation, Jordi!
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: (forw) Debian male contributors participate in the 2008 Google "Summer of Code"

[Kevin Mark]

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 08:59:35AM +0200, Christian Perrier wrote:
> Just a thought: 100% men. Slightly sad, isn't it?
> 
> (I don't blame ppl who did choose the projects as I think there was no
> project proposed by a female student, I'm afraid)
> 

As was mentioned during GSOC discussion on -devel or -project, there was
this dicotomy between 'getting lots done' vs 'getting them part of the
community' with 'getting lots done' seeming to win out. If there was
more on the latter, maybe there would be more opportunity for women?
-k
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Debian Women Indonesia

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Runa Agate Sandvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 01:18:05PM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:
>  > Hmm. Seems like something to do! The only poster I found was this
>  > one[0]. Maybe a derivitive could be created?
>
>  I was thinking of something debian-women-related :)
If I have some time, I might try to make a poster, so Runa and/or Nur,
do you have some informational bit that you would want to see on a
recruiting poster?   Any images that you would want?
cheers


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Debian Women Indonesia

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 10:51:14AM +0100, Runa Agate Sandvik wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 01, 2008 at 01:32:19AM -0500, Kevin Mark wrote:
> > Maybe host a womens event about Debian in a Library, school, etc.
> > Maybe a womens Debian install fest?
> 
> Are there any posters etc that can be sent out to schools?
> 
> // Runa
> Homepage: http://www.indentedlines.net
> 
> 
Hmm. Seems like something to do! The only poster I found was this
one[0]. Maybe a derivitive could be created?
There is also this[1]. I thought I read about somebody setting up a site
for Debian media like presentations, signs, etc. [not including the
video archive] But I can't find any.
So maybe have a poster designing contest!
-K
[0] http://www.infodrom.org/Debian/mike.html
[1] http://wiki.debian.org/DebianEventsHowto
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Debian Women Indonesia

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Feb 28, 2008 at 09:56:28PM -0800, Nur Aini Rakhmawati wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> I would like to setup Debian Women for Indonesian
> But I dunno What should I do 
> The first thing that in my mind is translating Debian Women site to 
> Indonesian language
> The other things are waiting Debian Women Bug Squashing and Debian package 
> tutorial.
> 
> any suggestion ? 
> 
> Thanks in advance 
>  

Maybe host a womens event about Debian in a Library, school, etc.
Maybe a womens Debian install fest?
Maybe go to a school and speak to a Computer professor to see if they
know any women who would be interested in Debian Gnu/Linux development like
submitting bugs, helping with existing packages...

Do you have any ideas as you know what people in your part of the world
want better then me in the USA? Maybe we can help you refine or organize
an idea?
-k
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Interesting cartoon strip

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 4:11 PM, Nori Heikkinen
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Miriam Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > About generalizations... simply great:
>  >
>  >  http://xkcd.com/385/
>
>  xkcd is fabulous.  this one, also in that vein, is a classic:
>  http://xkcd.com/322/ :)
>
>  --
>  
>  http://www.maenad.net/jnl
>
>
It is great to see someone trying to make the issue more visible and
to know that at least one guy understands the issue. But that does not
grant this enlightenment to the other 99.9%. I read a post[0] by Emma
Jane Hogbin, a one time Debian-user contributer, and how she tried to
enlighten her fellow ubuntu irc admins about an certain issue and she
referenced this cartoon and how they didn't get it. Or at least not
enough to see her point. But its progress.
[0] http://emmajane.net/node/708


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: What is the software in debian for designing

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 1:31 AM, Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2008, Nellycan Debora wrote:
>  > I want ask about what is the software that i have to have for
>  > designing something like photoshop in windows.
>
>  The closest thing to photoshop is The Gimp; there's also inkscape,
>  which is vector based, like illustrator.
>
>  You can see http://www.gimp.org/tutorials/ and
>  http://www.inkscape.org/doc/basic/tutorial-basic.html for some
>  introductory tutorials on the both of them.
>
>  Don Armstrong
>
>  --
>  NASCAR is a Yankee conspiracy to keep you all placated so the South
>  won't rise again.
>   -- http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=327
>
>  http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu
>
>
>  --
>  To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
There is also 'scribus' which is used for layout like Adobe Pagemaker.


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Hello

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Oct 24, 2007 at 03:26:48PM -0400, Ivy Foster wrote:
> I just thought I'd say hi. I've lurked for a little while now and just
> thought it might be cool to introduce myself (I have this habit of waiting a
> while before posting to a list). Anyway...hello! I'm a student, been using
> GNU/Linux for a couple of years now, and am really glad a group like this
> exists.
> 
> Ivy
> 
Welcome to Debian and to the Debian-women's list!
As you may be aware, if you have read recent posts, there are alot of
areas to contribute. Feel free to ask about anything that interest you.
Do you have any specific areas in which you have thought about getting
involved? Are you studying anything that might help our project? There
are anthropologist studying Debian's community, so there are many
different ways to contribute including software production. But what
ever you choose, folks will try to help you on that path.
Have fun,
K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Is it ok for me to be here?

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 09:06:38PM -0500, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermoso wrote:
> I see that I'm not at all the only one with a male name in this
> mailing list, but still I think I should ask. This sounds like a
> mailing list for women, and I'm not one. I feel like I'm barging in.
> It wouldn't be the first sort of women's group I join, although I
> always feel like I shouldn't join one unless I'm invited.
> 
> So, is it ok for me to be here?
> 
> I imagine that if it weren't, I would have already been told so,
> but... well, I have to ask anyways. :-)

The membership AFAIK is not gender exclusive and the only thing that is
required is 'be nice to everyone' and try to discuss 'debian women'
related things. I have tried to join wiki-chix and could not because of
their gender-specific policy and this was enforced immediatly. So I´d
say 'welcome'.

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|

Re: Hello all ..

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Sep 30, 2007 at 12:32:50AM +0100, Sarah Connor wrote:
> I'm a newcomer to the list, and just deciding whether I'm capable of giving
> something back to the Debian community which has offered me so much.
Hi and Welcome,

Every little bit helps!

> 
> I wasn't going to post an introduction, but given the recent trolling I 
> thought
> it might be timely!

HeHe.

> 
> I'm a 23 year old Debian user based in Edinburgh.

Did you attend Debconf 7, the yearly gathering of all things debian
which was in that part of the world? There was even some kilt-wearing
members!

>   I've been using Debian as my
> operating system of choice since approximately 2003.  I'm comfortable with
> creating and making packages as I do so for work.  (We're a perl shop in
> Edinburgh, Scotland.)

Cool.

> 
> Right now I'm seriously considering applying to join the project as a Debian
> Developer - the only downside right now is finding a package or two to work on
> specifically .. I work with Perl professionally, but mostly the Debian Perl
> Team seem pretty tight and on top of things...
> 

There are many ways to start contributing like: creating bug reports,
sending patches to bugreports, doing translations (the SMITH project),
artwork,  & sounds.  As you suggest, there are teams setup to do ´group
maintainance' of certain types of packages: perl modules, ruby modules,
games, etc. But folks go on vacation and other FLOSS distractions...

One of the first things that is checked when someone applied for NM (new
maintainer status) is what they have done before they applied. So just
helping as a user is a great start. Also, you do not have to be a Debian
developer to help with offcial package maintance. If you fix a bug in a
current package, you can co-ordinate with the current maintainer and
have them check your work and then upload the result into debian. This
is sponsorship as mentioned on mentors.debian.net. You can also help by
looking at the weekly 'orphaned/needs help' reports(WNPP) and work on
anything there:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2007/09/msg00985.html
If you are not an expert on some language, you can ask for help, and as long
as you are willing to google first, RTFM and ask smart questions(ESR),
someone will surely help you with the harder bits. Besides, once you can
read PERL code, you can pretty much handle anything?!

Hope this explains and welcome aboard!
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|

Re: Women's Linux Distro (could it become reality?)

[Kevin Mark]

On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 06:37:25AM +0200, Tina Isaksen wrote:
> Michelle Konzack wrote:
>> Am 2007-09-23 18:47:11, schrieb senegal seventythree:
>>   
>>> Could we make a Women's linux distro for and by Women?
>>> How long would it take and when could we start making
>>> it. We could base it on debian or ubuntu.
>>> 
>> - END OF REPLIED MESSAGE -
>>
>> Wnd what should I do with a Debian WOMEN Disti?
>>
>> I am happy with a GENDER NEUTRAL Debian GNU/Linux Distribution.
>>
>> Note:  "a Women's linux distro" would offend me since I am Hermaphrodit!
> I put this 'senegal' person in the troll category. A 'womens distro' sounds 
> so utterly meaningless and silly I didn't think anyone would take it 
> seriously. But this troll (or whatever he/ she is) must have been extremely 
> active because he/she has lead to not one [1] but two [2] articles on 
> Linux.com! The DW list is the only woman oriented mailing list I'm on these 
> days but I'm obviously missing out on quite a lot :P
>
> [1] http://www.linux.com/feature/119489
> [2] http://www.linux.com/feature/119488
>
>
> Tina
Yea, I saw one of the article. Mike's comment was fodder for a magazine
write. Once again, no one asked, from what I read, anyone from this or
any other similar forum for a comment on it.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Women's Linux Distro (could it become reality?)

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Sep 23, 2007 at 06:47:11PM -0700, senegal seventythree wrote:
> Could we make a Women's linux distro for and by Women?
> How long would it take and when could we start making
> it. We could base it on debian or ubuntu.
> 
Debian is the universal operating system. Universal includes any
sentient being be they green, blue, martian or any being yet unknown and
any definition of gender. Although, you or anyone else are encoruaged to
create any derivitive of Debian you wish, as its part of its design. 
But the real question here is your intent. Are you trolling or really
asking for help with an endevor, if so, point us to the work you have
already done where people can contribute.
-K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Proposal: Debian Kids Rating System

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2007 at 08:06:48PM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm starting a new project in Debian ( http://wiki.debian.org/KidsRating ), as
> some of you might already know. I don't have a mailing list for it yet, but
> I'll probably have one soon. If anyone wants to join, they will certainly be
> welcome.
 
> Feedback and ideas are welcome.
The information, once generated, would be useable by any of the
interested groups as well as individuals. Perhaps a way of displaying it
in a dpkg/apt frontend would be nice. The information seems like it
could be done by one person (in or out of these groups) and used by the
others and then translated. So the work seems like it can be
posted/organized and then it could be done by anyone throught maybe an
email that contains checkboxes similar to our election ballot and then
submited for review. So just create a simple email template like:

Program: mygame
Verions: 1.23
Contains:
reference to drug use: [y]
use of drugs: [n]
maths:[y]
violence:[n]
Comments:
this would be great for teenagers who like to add
reviewer: jane hacker
date: 01/01/69

Cheers,
K
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


pgpBiycWzrQjm.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: DW meeting Thursday in EDI

[Kevin Mark]

On Thu, Jun 21, 2007 at 07:05:45AM -0300, Margarita Manterola wrote:
> On 6/21/07, Kevin Mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >Is that one of the rooms with AV? If no, is there any digital device to
> >create a podcast (camera with audio)? Anyway, hope you get some
> >intersting stuff discussed...
> 
> Since it's a very informal gathering, we'd rather not have it on tape,
> and only post a summary of the ideas raised, as Helen requested.
> 
Sounds like the response I got when asking about wikichix policies.
I guess I can understand why.
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: DW meeting Thursday in EDI

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 04:22:46PM -0700, Erinn Clark wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
> We're going to have our DW meeting on Thursday, 6/20 at 15:00. I know it
> conflicts with Enrico's Debtags talk, but there aren't a lot of other
> times that looked even remotely suitable. 
> 
> I expect the meeting itself to take about an hour. I'm taking
> suggestions for where to meet -- I personally am thinking we ought to
> meet up in The Loft where there are chairs and stuff. I'll take care of
Is that one of the rooms with AV? If no, is there any digital device to
create a podcast (camera with audio)? Anyway, hope you get some
intersting stuff discussed...

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

floss women roundtable

[Kevin Mark]

Linuxchix Michelle murrain pointed this out:
http://podcast.rubyonrails.org/programs/1/episodes/roundtable-women-in-open-source
worth a listen. There will be IIRC a 2nd episode.
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


pgpggUFaSCBVc.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Introductions

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Apr 03, 2007 at 01:37:01AM -0400, Laylaa wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I'm Laylaa, from Trinidad & Tobago.
> 
> I recently got reminded that Debian is the one true OS (for me) and
> that I have no right to not be running it, not even for pesky
> installation problems (so, I won't mention any others I currently have
> installed).
> 
> I joined many many Debian lists a month ago but the volume of posts is
> rather intimidating and it took me this long to say hello (more
> "reminders" from helix).
> 
> So, HELLO!
> 
> Oh, I currently teach at a technical university. ("What?" you may ask.
> "ICT things.")
> 
> Laylaa
> 
Welcome! Its a funny coincidence that I read live.linuxchix.org blog
roll and remembered there was someone on there thats from t&t -- goes by
the name lilandra[0] on the posts. And I was reading about something
called ´doubles' that I will try to seekout in my area that lilandra had
a picture of. Since t&t is not a big place, maybe you two can create
your own t&t linuxchix group :-)
Cheers,
Kev

[0] http://www.lilandra.com/lily/

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal |mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/|
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
|  my keyserver: subkeys.pgp.net | my NPO: cfsg.org |
|join the new debian-community.org to help Debian!  |
|___  Unless I ask to be CCd, assume I am subscribed ___|


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: teaching young women in ways that suit them

[Kevin Mark]

On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 08:37:39PM -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
> Meike Reichle wrote:
> >So I now ponder how to adapt my style of
> >talking to this new situation. Thus, I am also very interested in what
> >experiences you people have with teaching/motivating girls/young women
> >and what you think should (not) be done in order to achieve this goal.
> 
> This might sound really stupid but...
> 
> This past summer I helped a co-worker give a talk to a several groups of 
> middle school age students (~12-13 years old) at a science symposium. 
> The girls in the groups seemed really interested in the talk and 
> participated a lot (raising their hands, asking / answering questions.) 
> What we did was basically talk about different career paths in 
> computer-science related fields, and then we gave a demo of 'computer 
> science in action.' We gave a basic explanation of how computer networks 
> work, then opened up ethereal on my laptop and pointed out the pieces of 
> an AOL instant messenger message that I had sniffed. We pointed out all 
> the different information (IP addresses, etc), finally pointing out the 
> message body to show how you could read the content of an AOL instant 
> messenger conversation between two other people.
> 
> As if on queue, a few girls raised their hands and asked, "Can my 
> parents do this to read my conversations with my friends?" Yup! Another 
> one as if on queue :) "How can I stop them?"
> 
> Then we explained how encryption works and gave a very simple 'rot13' 
> example. We talked about how encryption is not only important for 
> keeping conversations secret but also for business transactions and 
> banking to take place on the web.
> 
> I think they enjoyed the talk and I hope a lightbulb went off in their 
> heads about computer science being a possible field for them to pursue. 
> I think the talk related to them because communication is so important 
> to girls at that age, and because it let them see how computer science 
> directly relates to their everyday lives. So for your talk, maybe think 
> about what kinds of things these girls like to do, and think about what 
> things in computer science relate to that. One thing I wish I would have 
> done was also give them something they could use to get started; eg 
> point out some books or TV shows or *some* kind of activity they could 
> easily do at home or in school (if they dont have a computer at home) to 
> start getting involved.
> 
> ~m
Hi M,
that is what I was pondering... using the idea of 'boy' competition vs
'girl' socializing. You mention 'communication' as important. girls tend
to focus on things related to friendship, socializing(using texting, AIM
chat) , secrets (your example of AIM being cleartext) and cooperation
(some kind of group project). So if some exercise could include those
elements, maybe that would be something that would peak interest. There
are web 2.0 things like collaborative filtering (explain it) to find
people with similar interests (friendship). Maybe use RMS's example of
recipe sharing: ask someone to bring in a brownie recipe and get someone
to make a variant and notes the 'diff' between those and makes the
recipie with gpl-type attribution? Then there are projects from Make and
Craft magazine or instructables for things to do at home. I work with a
teenage FLOSS group and its been a challange to get anything that peaks
the interest of kids from 10-13 of either age. In the class kids are in
cliques and groups and they spent more time chatting with friends than
listening. Oh well.
Any way, it any of these are useful, do tell.
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
| my keysever: pgp.mit.edu   | my NPO: cfsg.org |


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: teaching young women in ways that suit them

[Kevin Mark]

Hi Helen,
On Fri, Dec 15, 2006 at 09:10:03AM +1100, Helen Faulkner wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi All,
> 
> I've been meaning to write this one for some time, as the material has been
> sitting in my head for a month or more.
> 
> So, a month or two ago, I went to a talk given by a researcher in my 
> department
> who looks into, among other things, the issues involved in getting more women
> into fields in which they are traditionally rare.  IT and FOSS are definitely
> such fields!  She said two things that particularly caught my interest, and 
> were
> backed up by academic references I didn't bother to write down (sorry):
> 
> 
> 1) Teenage girls, on average, look for role models who are women and people 
> they
> know.  Teenage boys, however, tend to find role models who are public figures,
> not people they know.
> 
> This is interesting because a teenage girl who is interested in computer 
> science
> or similar is not very likely to find a role model *among the women she knows*
After I read a comment on planet, I went to check out the Wikipedia
page[0] of Jeri Ellsworth and then watched her lecture at Stanford[1].
That video has her discussing how she became the person she is today. As
you mentioned, she did not have any female role models but what she did
have was a father who did not limit her and found other male mentors who
also did not limit her. That and her being in a small town that did not
have much in the way of 'modern' amusements. She might have other
comments to add if asked, as she does not appear to be 'shy' by any
stretch of the imagination from her presence on that lecture. Good luck
on finding further ways to entice young folks to enter science. The US
has never had great luck getting folks in those fields, not withstanding
the usual gender bias of parents and teacher, and today it worse.
Cheers,
Kev 
[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeri_Ellsworth
[1] http://stanford-online.stanford.edu/courses/ee380/050518-ee380-100.asx
> 
> -- 
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
| my keysever: pgp.mit.edu   | my NPO: cfsg.org |


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: contacto mujeres+ transformaci?n social

[Kevin Mark]

On Wed, Oct 18, 2006 at 04:08:32PM +, Alicia Mart?nez Fern?ndez wrote:
> Este es un mailing de catalu?a para mujeres dentro de movimientos 
> alternativos o interesadas en transformaci?n social, etc. Por si os quere?s 
> apuntar, para consultar, intercambiar, opinar en esta lista de correo:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Para inscribirse aqu?: 
> http://www.moviments.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dones
Hi,
would I be correct that this list is only available in Spanish? Catalan?
cheers,
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
| my keysever: pgp.mit.edu   | my NPO: cfsg.org |


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: [Pkg-shadow-devel] Bug#391717: gender in /etc/passwd

[Kevin Mark]

On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 09:07:07PM +0200, Robert Millan wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 02:11:33PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Sunday 08 October 2006 13:44, Christian Perrier wrote:
> > > > passwd maintainers, what do you think about this?  The idea would be to
> > > > add a gender field in the GECOS, please see the bug log for details and
> > > > rationale.
> > > >
> > > >   http://bugs.debian.org/391717
> > >
> > > I personnally dislike the idea (why gender and why not religion or the
> > > like.I think that the rationale of l10n is a bit haircutting,
> > > here).
> 
> Well, there are some constructions (even in English, although much less 
> common)
> that can only be made with assumption on the user's gender.  For example in
> Catalan (and probably most latin languages) you can't ask "Are you sure you 
> want
> to x?" (a pretty common question in computing) without assuming the user 
> is
> male or female.  Usualy the former is assumed, but I find this a bit
> disrespectful, specialy since making debian more friendly to the female public
> [1] is a common concern in our community nowadays.
> 
> [1] Which reminds me debian-women might want to be CCed..
> 
> > > But, anyway, this is something that should be discussed with
> > > our upstream and he should discuss it with other distros.
> 
> Is [EMAIL PROTECTED] the right upstream contact address?  I sent the same
> request to him roughly a month ago, but received no response (not sure if due 
> to
> lack of interest, time, or just mail breakage).
> 
> -- 
> Robert Millan
Hi Robert,
would the assumtion be that all languages do not offer a neutral way to
ask questions? I hope that is not the case. This would seem to be a
linguistic question for the translators and i18n/i10n team and to
whether they can 'correct' any strings to make them neutral and to issue
bugs on any package that has non-neutral language.
cheers,
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
| my keysever: pgp.mit.edu   | my NPO: cfsg.org |


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Awful article in Barrapunto

[Kevin Mark]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 11:59:05AM +0200, Vedran Vucic wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> All we men and women are aware of such nasty things.  But, from my experience 
> those guys are aggressive when they feel that we are becoming stronger and 
> stronger and that we are each day more important.  That is sign for me that 
> we have to continue our work and that we should not be discouraged.
> 
> 
> best wishes,
> 
> 
> vedran Vucic


This to me brings to mind:
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you,
then you win." 
  --  Mahatma Gandhi
  cheers,
  Kev
- -- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
| my keysever: pgp.mit.edu   | my NPO: cfsg.org |
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFEwV0bv8UcC1qRZVMRAkmWAJ9xaMk5SvcqEz6Kx+a0tDYpqNfTFgCfZJ/s
eD/Ee4yvj3Ygd5oTreCxHpU=
=RwrP
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: fedora women founded

[Kevin Mark]

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 01:04:44PM +0200, Alexander Schmehl wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> It seems that debian women is such a great idea, that other projects do
> something similar:
> 
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Women?action=show&redirect=FedoraWomen
do all of the members have to showup in 'red hats'  x-)
cheers,
Kev
-- 
|  .''`.  == Debian GNU/Linux == |   my web site:   |
| : :' :  The  Universal | debian.home.pipeline.com |
| `. `'  Operating System| go to counter.li.org and |
|   `-http://www.debian.org/ |be counted! #238656   |
| my keysever: pgp.mit.edu   | my NPO: cfsg.org |


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature