Re: dame_gender
El lun., 25 may. 2020 a las 16:28, David Arroyo Menendez () escribió: > And I've created an article to explain that I'm receiving an > heterophobic agression in this community: > https://cienciabasura.wordpress.com/2020/05/25/homofobias-heterosexualidades-y-actitudes/ You're obviously free to publish whatever you want, but that is probably neither helpful nor friendly. Greetings, Miry
Re: dame_gender
El dom., 5 abr. 2020 a las 0:34, Jessica Clarke () escribió: > And in fact, quoting the text at the bottom of your comic: > > > There is a difference between ‘that’s a shitty argument’ and ‘you’re a > > shitty person’. > > I saw Miry as trying to ensure it doesn't devolve into the latter. That was precisely my intention. Thanks for being able to explain it better than me. Greetings, Miry
Re: dame_gender
> On Sun, Apr 05, 2020 at 12:02:05AM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote: > > > > Debian Code of Conduct: https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct.en.html > > Any code of conduct that does not distinguish between harm done to a > marginalized group and the response to that harm is ineffective. If you don't like the CoC, make some proposals to ammend it and convince the majority of the project to approve them. As it stands, that is the current CoC and the guidelines applicable to all the participants in Debian mailing lists, as well as other modes of communication within the project. And I personally think it is a good Code of Conduct, by the way. Greetings, Miry
Re: dame_gender
El sáb., 4 abr. 2020 a las 23:53, Jessica Clarke () escribió: > > On 4 Apr 2020, at 22:48, Saiph Savage wrote: > > > The project being proposed is sexist and transphobic. You can’t be polite. > > Kudos to J.M Faer for raising a voice. We would not normalize that these > types of projects are acceptable. > > You can raise your voice and disagree wholeheartedly whilst still being > polite. > Even if someone is a huge bigot that doesn't give you free rein to be rude, as > tempting and justifiable as it *feels*. Debian Code of Conduct: https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct.en.html Greetings, Miry
Re: dame_gender
El vie., 3 abr. 2020 a las 15:42, J. M. Faer () escribió: > No, no, no. You’re looking for a woman’s free labor for an inherently, > irreparably sexist and transphobic project. El sáb., 4 abr. 2020 a las 19:06, J. M. Faer () escribió: > And what I’m saying is that there are more than two genders in this world, > and you are trying to use machine learning to erase anyone who is not male or > female. > The entire concept of gender detection by name is bunk. While it is okay to disagree with someone else's projects, goals or ideas, and to be verbose about it, in my opinion we're getting quite close to being unacceptably unpolite here. Greetings, Miry
Re: FOSDEM 2019
I don't know yet for sure, but I might eventually go. It might be nice to organize something along those lines. Greetings, Miry El lun., 12 nov. 2018 a las 12:19, Adriana Cássia () escribió: > > Hi! > > Anyone is going to Fosdem? > > https://fosdem.org/2019/ > > I was wondering to propose a sprint about underrepresented groups in > the Debian community and what we can do about it, to schedule some > activities to involve more people, and so on. > > > > Best regards, > > -- > Adriana C. da Costa > http://www.mulheres.eti.br >
Re: Debian Women lunch @ DebConf 18
I haven't been able to attend DebConf 18 this year, so I couldn't attend Debian Women lunch at DebConf 18. Thus, I don't have any first hand information about what was spoken there, apart from Ulrike's email. I wanted to comment something, though, about my personal view on something that Holger commented in his email: 2018-08-07 19:56 GMT+02:00 Holger Levsen : >> There was a proposal to merge the debian-women mailing list with the >> future debian-diversity list. Several reasons for this proposal: > [...] >> - it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who >> identify as women instead [...] > > while I agree with this reasoning I'd like to point out that this list > when it was started was open to all, as was the Debian women project > when it was started 13-14 years ago at DebConf4+5. I have always understood the Debian Women project as project inside Debian that works to promote the involvement of more women in its development. Thus, in my opinion, it still be open to everyone that wants to work along these lines. While I think that the original text from Ulrike can be perfectly understood in that sense (and while making it also clear that I personally agree with the proposal), I think that maybe it might be more clear if, instead of:: """ it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to people who identify as women instead of opening it up to a diversity of genders (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more intersectional approach to underrepresented groups. """ it would be read as: """ it nowadays seems too restrictive to reduce the list to just people who want to promote the involvement of more people who identify as women in the development of Debian, instead of opening it up to working towards the involvement of more people who might identify with a diversity of genders (female, nonbinary, queer, genderfluid, gender*) and have a more intersectional approach to underrepresented groups. """ Please, do not take this email in the wrong sense. I am not picky about the language used and I am perfectly okay with the text in the original email. I also don't want to complicate things in the name of linguistic or political correctness or anything like that. I just wanted to point out that, from the overall context of Debian, Debian Women and this mailing list, the original text did not have to be understood as a rejection of males. At least that's my point of view, of course. Others might think differently. Hugs, Miry
Re: DebConf18 Gender Forum
/2021035 >>> https://youtu.be/nNgPfm6rY2U >>> >>> For this DebConf18 panel: I only have a few rough ideas in the >>> current phase. The diversity problem is mainly about women, but I would >>> always like to put more on the table, to make more subgroups and issues >>> "visible". I guess it may be a good chance to bring in the transgender >>> issue this time. >>> >>> Maybe you can invite people that will attend DebConf. If you want to >> prepare a list of questions like Miriam said we can help you too. >> I will not attend DebConf, but I can help if you think it's necessary. I >> have been attending some conferences about gender, and we can discuss >> about some ideas for the panel. >> >> >>> There is only one speaker confirmed. She is one of major activists >>> in the local transgender rights movement. She is using Ubuntu. I plan >>> to invite other organizers of local women communities. As I said above, >>> the main topic is still women, but there need to be more than women. >>> >> My suggestion is looking for people that work for diversity in free >> software projects, it will help you find more people. >> >> >>> The subject of the panel is still undecided yet. >>> >>> This is the status so far. Any ideas are welcome. >>> >>> Miriam Ruiz on 2018/04/05 15:49 said: >>>> It might be a good starting point to figure out what we might want to >>>> talk about, in the context of this forum, regarding the extensive area >>>> of "gender", and what are the goals that we want to pursue. Gender is >>>> a very extensive concept that has broad effects in all the aspects of >>>> our lifes: social, personal, identity, expressive, behavioral, etc. >>>> >>>> I suppose that, because of the type of event and due to the context of >>>> this thread, the idea might probably be to go a bit deeper into the >>>> guidelines defined in the Diversity Statement, in particular regarding >>>> the gender axis. That is indeed something that I would think as very >>>> positive, but that it may be necessary to elaborate the idea a bit >>>> more, to be able to give it a narrative thread. It might also be, on >>>> the other hand, that we might want to talk about how to use the >>>> current existing diversity (and in particular the gender diversity) to >>>> help improve the developing processes, the teams or the results. >>>> >>>> The analysis of the reasons that might explain why there is still a >>>> gap between men and women in the development of technology and free >>>> software is undoubtedly within the scope of gender, and it is usually >>>> the main focus when we talk about gender in Free Software. In addition >>>> to this, there is the analysis of stereotypes and reference behaviors >>>> associated with gender, and explicitly talking about that that would >>>> allow some debating about new masculinities, new femininities and >>>> androgyny. It is obvious that the issue of gender identity is also >>>> over the table, as well as gender expression (clothing, accessories, >>>> care and external appearance), etc. All this factors have a certain >>>> importance within the internal and external relationships both between >>>> working groups and when talking about Debian as a whole. >>>> >>>> Therefore, before starting to prepare a list of questions, it might be >>>> a good idea to outline a small non-exhaustive list of elements that >>>> might be used to create some scaffolding and, therefore, can make it >>>> easier than other people contribute ideas, questions and suggestions. >>>> >>>> Greetings, >>>> Miry >>>> >>>> 2018-04-05 3:02 GMT+02:00 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson : >>>>> OK I eliminated all the questions. >>>>> >>>>> Please help me write proper questions. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> imacat ^_*' >>> PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc >>> >>> <> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ >>> Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ >>> Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://www.wofoss.org/ >>> OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/ >>> EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/ >>> Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/ >>> >>> >> >> > > -- > Best regards, > imacat ^_*' > PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc > > <> News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ > Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ > Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://www.wofoss.org/ > OpenOffice http://www.openoffice.org/ > EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/ > Greenfoot Taiwan http://greenfoot.westart.tw/ >
Re: DebConf18 Gender Forum
It might be a good starting point to figure out what we might want to talk about, in the context of this forum, regarding the extensive area of "gender", and what are the goals that we want to pursue. Gender is a very extensive concept that has broad effects in all the aspects of our lifes: social, personal, identity, expressive, behavioral, etc. I suppose that, because of the type of event and due to the context of this thread, the idea might probably be to go a bit deeper into the guidelines defined in the Diversity Statement, in particular regarding the gender axis. That is indeed something that I would think as very positive, but that it may be necessary to elaborate the idea a bit more, to be able to give it a narrative thread. It might also be, on the other hand, that we might want to talk about how to use the current existing diversity (and in particular the gender diversity) to help improve the developing processes, the teams or the results. The analysis of the reasons that might explain why there is still a gap between men and women in the development of technology and free software is undoubtedly within the scope of gender, and it is usually the main focus when we talk about gender in Free Software. In addition to this, there is the analysis of stereotypes and reference behaviors associated with gender, and explicitly talking about that that would allow some debating about new masculinities, new femininities and androgyny. It is obvious that the issue of gender identity is also over the table, as well as gender expression (clothing, accessories, care and external appearance), etc. All this factors have a certain importance within the internal and external relationships both between working groups and when talking about Debian as a whole. Therefore, before starting to prepare a list of questions, it might be a good idea to outline a small non-exhaustive list of elements that might be used to create some scaffolding and, therefore, can make it easier than other people contribute ideas, questions and suggestions. Greetings, Miry 2018-04-05 3:02 GMT+02:00 積丹尼 Dan Jacobson : > OK I eliminated all the questions. > > Please help me write proper questions. >
Re: Please update the debian logo of your service
2016-01-31 22:02 GMT+01:00 Laura Arjona Reina : > El 31/01/16 a las 21:17, Stefano Zacchiroli escribió: >> On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 09:06:23PM +0100, Laura Arjona Reina wrote: >>> After one month of showing logos with the mourning ribbon, and having >>> honoured the memory of Ian Murdock in FOSDEM too, www.debian.org, >>> bits.debian.org and a few other services will return to the usual logo >>> in the next hours/days. >>> >>> We suggest that you update your services too. >> >> So, instead of reverting a manual change in many places, with another >> manual change in the same places, why don't we take this chance to >> switch to something that would make things easier if ever, in the >> future, we need to change the logo in many places at once? >> >> Can we have a list of (relatively) stable URLs, with the various kinds / >> form factors of logos, that are meant to be hotlinked from Debian >> services? >> >> I'll be more happily switch to hotlinking to a www.d.o URL than back to >> a version of the logo embedded in Debsources and tons of other places. >> >> (Of course if the answer is: «good idea, we should do that, but not now» >> I can do the manual revert and the switch to hotlinking when that's >> ready. But this seems like a good chance to catch two birds with one >> stone.) >> > > The official logos are here: > https://www.debian.org/logos/ > (from there I got them to put the mourning ribbon). > > I suppose that for the usual logo you can hotlink there. > > For 'special' logos, maybe we can create a "special" folder under > www.debian.org/logos and store there the mourning ones, and the future > ones. Would it also make sense to add versions of Debian-Women logo there too? People are always asking where to get it from. Greetings, Miry PS: I'm CC'ing D-W in this mail
About Supertuxkart 0.9
I've been talking with STK developers this afternoon. They are nice and collaborative, and we have had an interesting chat. I plan to make a new blog post about it, but it was a friendly approach and they are nice people. Meanwhile, for the sake of completeness of information, this is a screenshot of the overall view of Gran Paradiso island: https://i.imgur.com/srNMKlt.jpg An this is a video of a driver playing in that track. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWr1kKiMErk Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvosudacu-se7s8thuolfs9cgg8bfdqdqcn54nhzofa...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-03 20:49 GMT+02:00 Letna : > I frankly consider this thread quizzical: first there were accusation > of racism and sexism, then the racism accusation was dropped (after > a message by a Mexican Debian Developer), then the request was to shield > children from naked skin and lastly the thread went back on sexism > (but the patch apparently corrects the alleged racism?). Different people have different concerns and opinions. I have never talked about racism in the game because my white privilege shields me from being able to see it, if it is so. I can see the sexism, though, though probably not purposedly intended by upstream. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVNwS9wqwpmX+A=cqbad+wo9xg08tjxelj7aex-oobp...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-03 20:29 GMT+02:00 Catherine Gramze : > I agree that talking to upstream is unlikely to help. If they thought > replacing a neutral character with Sara was a good idea then they are not > likely to see any issues with Sara. They like her and want her in the game. I > think they will continue to head more in this direction no matter what any of > us might say. They are altering the basic nature of the game from a > children's game to a teen or adult male game, they are doing so deliberately, > and if a fork to preserve the children's nature of the game is not possible > then the game should not be included in Debian anymore. Well, making a fork is certainly possible and doable. All it takes is some people willing to devote some time and effort to maintain the fork. What remains to be seen is if enough people with spare time might be willing to work on that game. On the other hard, I don't see any grounds for not including it in Debian even if it becames no longer apt for kids, as long as it remains DFSG free and anyone is willing to maintain it. What can be done (if the package maintainers think so) is to improve it via patches (we have always done that to many packages) or to use the package description to explain what the game is about and what to expect (we have always done that too). Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVNwGJbpEqZdh3kk=gcqr4bvuqcstg4bed6kycov6st...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-03 20:31 GMT+02:00 Letna : > I see from your comment that (as many in this thread), you haven't played > the game. This is a video depicting Sara and her kart [1], far far > different from your allusive description. > > [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAgyfnuc9FQ That seems to be two different things: Sara is not driving her snowmobile in bikini, she is doing so in a dress. The main concern with Sara's avatar is that she is sometimes intentionally showing her panties for no special reason [1]. The other point is that, in a particular truck (not the one shown in the video), the image of a girl in bikini is used for no particular reason other than (apparently) visual gratification. Greetings, Miry [1] http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=4669 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvpdc-rv4zpqzomu6ge9fyoojtkar48vdaojwgegzuw...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-03 19:46 GMT+02:00 Letna :
> Woops forgot the link
>
> [1] http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=6325
That was posted 2 days ago ("01 May 2015, 20:54"). It's kind of
suspicious (all this discussion started the 28th of April).
Honestly, from outside at least, it seems like someone is trying to
fix the issue by also adding sexualized male images to the game (I
wonder how they will manage to compensate for her panties sometimes
showing when she is riding her snowmobile). Will that model be
playable too? From what I understood, it seemed to me that they had to
remove a previous character to add Sara ("hopefully replace the old
mozilla" [1]).
Anyway, I would still suggest to add a warning to the package
description if, in the end, not only women in bikini but also men in
trunks are used as visual candy for just no other apparent purpose.
Patches might work for 0.9 but, if upstream becomes stubborn about it,
and no fork is made, they can certainly add more things in a way that
patching them out can become a bigger job.
I haven't talked with upstream myself (and I don't really have plans
to do so), but I've seen some IRC logs and I don't have the feeling
that they might be very sensitive to these issues. In fact, I see a
potential problem that they might take it personal if we decide to
patch those sexualized images out, and maybe even respond by going
further along those lines.
Greetings,
Miry
[1] http://forum.freegamedev.net/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=4627
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Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-03 12:24 GMT+02:00 : > I am devastated. > > In trying to understand the role of sexism in the game community, I have > discovered that this is not an isolated issue of this game: No, it is certainly not, and it's not even exclusive of video games. It kind of extends throughout many other geek spaces, including Free Software. Proprietary game developers are starting to react and trying to move towards finding a solution to the problem, though. A good place to find about that is Geek Feminism Wikia, if you're interested: http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/ Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVMn6pXW4A0xEt7MNYrd_uPpbmD+yZQbdzE=d9ev2dw...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-03 0:41 GMT+02:00 Vincent Lejeune : > I attached the patches in the mail. > remove_sara_pants_animation.patch can be aplied on 0.8.1 (which is > already shipping in debian testing). > The others 2 removes the monkeys in cocoa_temple and the women in > bikini in gran paradisio island. Lots of thanks!! That's great!! Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVOuxQJ47=5an6x8ybxlkb0jrwakyfujmm2-6cj0gut...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-01 18:39 GMT+02:00 Vincent Lejeune : > Actually it is not inappropriate in a age rating perspective. > It's rather : a game that was presented as a family game and which had > a non human cast for years is now adopting the stance of an > heterosexual male point of view. > It's virtually accepted everywhere in the world since 95% of the video > game industry does it, actually Nintendo does it since their first > console after the video game industry crisis around 1985. > It also happens that since Nintendo did it, the number of women in > STEM slowly decreased to the point where it is now virtually accepted > everywhere that it's a male only field. > I strongly thing both phenomen are tied, I personnaly got interested > in computer science because I was curious about how the game I played > worked and wanted to reproduce and modify them. > And I think I'm not the only one. Actually I think most people in STK > dev team are in this case... > > Of course having 8 women in bikini in a track doesn't prevent a little > girl to play the game and enjoy it, and working in STEM later but she > will have more difficulty to feel welcomed by the game. > > It also happens that the video game community that grews with gendered > games is currently harassing female video game developpers to make > them resign and threaten developper that want to use their artistic > freedom > to introduce non sexualised female or "politically correct" playable > character in their game. I absolutely agree with you here. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to fix it at the moment. Some people are slowly starting to get it, but even talking openly about these issues usually comes back with severe backslash, at least for women who complain. Just remember last year's #GamerGate. In any case, at least from my personal perception, it doesn't seem that free games are really reaching actual kids, outside of some particular families and social contexts. None of the schools I know work with free games at the moment, and most of the kids I have around (which are a lot) kind of play either with tablets or game consoles. School games are usually provided by some educational company and its contents are usually well taken care of. I'm definitely no fan of closed source games, or programs in particular, and there are many commercial games which are obviously also sexist, racist, etc. But most of the games targeted at the same age and social group as supertuxkart seem to, at least, not include sexualized girls in bikini where they don't belong. Most of the parents I know wouldn't like that too much, anyway. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvmrz7zkhwmyde7ksn9w3kyzfgocjegqtstczlyukva...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-05-01 17:22 GMT+02:00 Ansgar Burchardt : > Anyway, I don't think this is still relevant to debian-devel-games@ and > will try to end the discussion here. I don't see how this won't be relevant for the Debian Games Team, when the package is currently maintained by the Debian Games Team [1]. Greetings, Miry [1] https://packages.debian.org/supertuxkart -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVN1ryc2VCcW13YVd2MdJJNe=hj3gpl7h-hidt2daeh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Content rating
2015-04-30 23:28 GMT+02:00 : > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:17:50PM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote: >> I think it's fair at least to ask for the package description to alert >> of what's inside the package, honestly and explicitly. Then each >> parent could decide whether they want their kids to play games that >> sexualize and objectify women, or not. > > I think you want a content classification, as in: > https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answer/188189 > > I think this is a good idea. > Note that it may be provided within or without Debian (e.g. at LGDB). > IMHO it's too complex for the scope of package description. Even though I wholeheartedly agree with you about this, until we can have such a system in place, the issue with this particular package, being targeted at kids, is important enough to deserve the explicit comment I mentioned in the description. If, for example, there was nudity or promotion of violence in, lets say, gcompris or tuxmath, I would certainly expect that too. It would be great to have such a system for all packages, including those targeted at more adult users, but I would say that in the case of packages targeted at small kids, being honest, explicit and transparent in the package description should be a must. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnp7ehsfhkus4b4t1hsnhhbk+udr5+3_hvnenobznn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-04-30 23:05 GMT+02:00 : > Hi, > > On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 09:26:23PM +0200, Vincent Lejeune wrote: >> To be honest I'm hoping a bit that having downstream discussing the >> representation in STK may make they change their mind. > > While I much appreciate the concern for the way a kid-oriented game is > depicting the female figure, I feel like this is exporting a debate. > > I personaly don't want Debian to become a new Apple Store, as in > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Apple#Newspaper_and_magazine_content I think it's fair at least to ask for the package description to alert of what's inside the package, honestly and explicitly. Then each parent could decide whether they want their kids to play games that sexualize and objectify women, or not. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnh4cx-qjnnduuvzcq0uxghywdjv--bo-tsag+eacg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Concern about racism and sexism in Supertuxkart 0.9
2015-04-30 7:44 GMT+02:00 Vincent Cheng : > Vincent, have you tried approaching the upstream developers and > starting a discussion with them with the goal of getting this fixed > upstream? I appreciate that you've brought your concerns about STK to > debian-women for discussion, but as maintainer I frankly do not know > what to do with this, and what you expect me to do as a downstream > package maintainer. This really sounds like an issue that needs to be > addressed at its source upstream, ideally with an amicable discussion > and agreement with all involved parties upstream. so a repeat of the > same issue can be avoided in a future upstream release. I'm not > particularly keen on mediating this discussion, purely because it's of > a non-technical nature; when faced with a non-technical issue in a > package I maintain, I usually just defer it to someone else > appropriate, i.e. I typically just defer to ftpmasters for an > authoritative yes/no whenever I'm faced with a legal issue or > complication in one of my packages. This being the first time I've > ever had a bug report alleging racist/sexist material in a package I > maintain, I don't know how to proceed. I agree that this should ideally be fixed upstream. I haven't looked at latest upstream release yet either, and I doubt I will be able to in at least a couple of weeks, but from what it seems from Vincent Lejeune's description, it doesn't look too good for me. If it is as bad as it sounds, and considering that it's a package targeted at kids, I honestly wouldn't be too happy with those additions in Debian's packages. If upstream doesn't want to fix it (hopefully they will) and if we don't want to patch it (it has to be seen how hard that can be), then at the very least we should include a warning in the description of the package, and maybe also when starting the game, alerting about that. That's what I would expect, at least. I honestly hope that upstream will be sensitive to those concerns. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvmfddbhtey57cgs_mshwl3jlte26+ydrrmrhcl28p3...@mail.gmail.com
What do you think of Tolvalds words about FOSS needing more people good at mediating instead of calming tone and attitude?
Hi, I just happened to find this interview to Torvalds [1], after what happened in his keynote speech at the Linux.conf.au Conference in Auckland, New Zealand [2]. He doesn't really say too much that we don't already know, but I wanted to quote the last sentence in the article and ask what other people thought about it: "Torvalds said that the open source movement might simply need more "people who are good at mediating," as opposed to asking developers to calm their own tone or attitude." Greetings, Miry [1] http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/linus-torvalds-responds-to-ars-about-diversity-niceness-in-open-source/ [2] http://arstechnica.com/business/2015/01/linus-torvalds-on-why-he-isnt-nice-i-dont-care-about-you/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnwcka_rsxy+4w2yt_cgrqeepduphem5zjheu89aqn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian Women Introduction
2014-06-14 9:44 GMT+02:00 Kevin Mark : > Hi Yehuda and Brenda, > That's great info that you provided. > Just a few more bits. > There is an Organization 'Open Hatch', they typically visit campuses in the US > and do 'on boarding' for various open source projects by doing a presentation > about what Open sourcce is and about the community. One of the co-founders > (Asheesh aka Paulproteous) is a DD (debian developers), so this is a good > person to contact. He might do a video session or might have pointers as to a > contact in .il. Either way, its has good stuff to browser at their website. > You can chat on IRC at #openhatch on irc.freenode.net I have the feeling that in this particular case, at least, it would be a good thing if a woman or a girl could be the one to video conference, if that could be done. I think that is reason we got the request at Debian Women, and I also see the possible benefits from it, as it seems to be, in fact, a college for women. I understand that if it is an in-person activity, such as visiting a campus, you will have to do by whomever is available, male or female, and that makes totally sense. That constraint is broken when we're talking about video conferences, so in my opinion it would be nice if some woman or girl would be able to do it. In the case that it was not possible, we might maybe want to have an internal debate on how to make it possible for future situations. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVOeSi9ytVghR494i3Y8hf=dP0vfhBsp=qRdpNBWxdQ=t...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian Women Introduction
2014-06-12 9:17 GMT+02:00 Yehuda Korotkin : > Hello Debian Women, > > My name is Yehuda Korotkin and I teach technologies in one of leading > colleges for women in Israel. > Welcome!!! :) > I thought about the possibility of introduce Debian and the Debian > community to the girls that i teach. > > Our girls will install Debian Linux for the first time in their lives next > week. I would like to take them on a journey in the Debian world (from > installation to community behind code). And give them a feeling of welcome > and belonging to Debian. > > I think would be fun and interesting to make a video conference call with > community and give them a general explanation about Debian, introduce them > to the community and get them welcome to the world of Debian > I think it's a great idea, and I think it's the kind of thing that can be very motivating and encouraging! ;) Greetings, Miry
Re: How many of the GSoC students are female?
2014-04-23 19:11 GMT+02:00 Daniel Pocock : > Just to clarify, Juliana hasn't been selected to reduce the gender gap, > but because based on a range of criteria, she was the best candidate for > the task. I don't think I ever suggested otherwise. Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvou3vtd1tejnn3vkfe_kter7kw7hiufs2o3xqhv+ko...@mail.gmail.com
Re: How many of the GSoC students are female?
Cool!! I really didn't need their identities, I was just interested in the number, to see how GSoC might be helping reduce the gender gap. 10% is not such a bad proportion when comparing to the numbers at https://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Projects/Statistics Thanks, Miry 2014-04-23 17:45 GMT+02:00 Nicolas Dandrimont : > * Miriam Ruiz [2014-04-23 14:47:42 +0200]: > >> Hi, > > Hi Miriam, > >> I have just seen the list of GSoC students in planet: >> >> http://bits.debian.org/2014/05/welcome-gsoc-students-2014.html >> >> >From a quick glance of the names, I have the impression that the >> current proportion is 1 female / 19 students, am I right? > > We don't ask for our students' gender, and Google doesn't disclose that > information to us. > > My understanding is that we have two female interns this year: Juliana and > Sphinx. > > Cheers, > -- > Nicolas Dandrimont > > BOFH excuse #73: > Daemons did it -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVMND-o7BWaTdpY3q14WnZb=shj4htwjozvna3fkytp...@mail.gmail.com
How many of the GSoC students are female?
Hi, I have just seen the list of GSoC students in planet: http://bits.debian.org/2014/05/welcome-gsoc-students-2014.html >From a quick glance of the names, I have the impression that the current proportion is 1 female / 19 students, am I right? That would be slightly above 5% (of course, you can't extract any statistical knowledge from these numbers, I'm just using it as reference). Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVOd1NnWjp=R2mSq9Cmdtk9pQ-Hb2O=4zfujc3nav3u...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-14 11:30 GMT+01:00 Vincent Cheng : > (If replying to me via debian-women or debian-legal, please cc me as > I'm not subscribed to those lists.) > > On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 3:07 AM, Miriam Ruiz wrote: > >> 3) Up to now, there hasn't been an actual proposal of package to even >> discuss, so the whole debate is abstract and I don't think anyone can >> say anything concrete about something that is not even tangible. I >> repeat: No one has started packagin anything, as far as I know, no one >> has tried to upload anything, no one has made anything apart of >> talking. At least that is my current understanding of the situation. > > Nils Dagsson Moskopp has already proposed an outline for a set of > packages for Unteralterbach [1]; presumably that means he's serious > about packaging this for Debian. In addition to that, Bas Wijnen has > already offered to sponsor this package [2], which alarms me even > more. So yes, there is an element of concrete-ness to this debate, and > it's why I've started to actively voice my displeasure about the > entire situation on debian-devel-games (a few days ago I assumed that > this was just an attempt at trolling and promptly ignored it; it looks > like I was wrong). Let me explain what I mean with different words then: FTP Masters -as far as I know- generally decide whether to accept or not a package by its actual contents. Up to now, no one has developed any concrete package that anyone could examine, and thus, the whole debate is entirely theoretical and abstract. At the moment there is not a concrete package to be accepted or rejected. There is undoubtable the possibility that there is a concrete package in the future. I guess that, depending on what FTP Masters decide, and what might be inside that particular theoretical package, a decision could be made. For example. it wouldn't be the same to try to make a package with just the backgrounds of the game, even with their origin, than one that contained the sexual images or dialogs. At some point, the details of concrete proposal -if there ever is one- might matter a lot. > Due to the above, I'm going to be watching the progress of > Unteralterbach's packaging very closely in the coming months, as well > as opposing this every step of the way. If this actually makes it into > the NEW queue, I have no hesitation on raising this issue again on > -devel and -project, and/or all other steps available to me as a DD to > oppose this (e.g. on the remote chance that this actually passes > through the NEW queue, I'll forward this issue to the tech-ctte, and > sponsor a GR to get Unteralterbach removed from the archive if need > be). You have every right to do so, of course. I suspect that you're not the only one in the project who has that position. I would suggest to wait for what the FTP Masters say before making too much noise or starting anything, as one of the things I would like to prevent is to attract external groups that try to cconvert Debian into their particular field battle between freedom of expression and the rest of the human rights. That's just my personal opinion, and of course you're entirely free to do whatever you feel more convenient, but I'd suggest to at least wait for whatever the FTP Masters have to say before starting a GR or getting more people involved. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVM=VwL3CDn3pf3Gat=KAQawf3fSy=c+pa1bolageu6...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-14 9:59 GMT+01:00 Jo Shields : > *TRIGGER WARNING* in case it wasn't painfully obvious for this thread by > now. Thanks for the warning. Just for the record, I can confirm that there has been people already triggered by all this situation. We can't forget that, as the "global prevalence of child sexual abuse has been estimated at 19.7% for females and 7.9% for males" [1], in a mailing list of say 100 people, there are gonna be about 12 people who have gone through it, and the psychological consequences it has, even years later, makes that the triggering that these situations cause can be very hurtful. I'm not saying that there should be censorship regarding what and how we can discuss things just because emotions play a cig part of it, but I ask everyone involved to take it into account that we're hurting actual people that are part of the project just by having this debate. I'm not commenting your post in general, just to thank you for your thoroughful analysis, not only of the game itself but also of its circumstances and the references it includes. I'm not familiar with 4chan nor Krautchan nor Bernds, so your mail is very enlightening and adds more information that I was unaware of. I haven't played the game myself, but I know that doing an analysis of this kind needs a lot of effort and thick skin, and I really appreciate it. I'm sure that the FTP Team will too. Thanks. Before all this discussion gets out of hand, I'll try to summarize my understanding of the situation as it is now: 1) It has been agreed by everyone that the game is, at least, illegal in most of our countries, and it shouldn't be packaged in Debian. As far as I know, no one is arguing that, or questioning that. Not even by who initially proposed it. 2) There is currently a somehow abstract debate about whether something can/should be saved of the game, alluding the artistic quality of the non-sexual components of the game. I can't comment on this, I haven't seen them far away from those in the web page. I don't know if something should or could be saved or not. I don't know if even the fact of saving something and knowing where it comes from can be hurting to both the project or the people in Debian in itself. 3) Up to now, there hasn't been an actual proposal of package to even discuss, so the whole debate is abstract and I don't think anyone can say anything concrete about something that is not even tangible. I repeat: No one has started packagin anything, as far as I know, no one has tried to upload anything, no one has made anything apart of talking. At least that is my current understanding of the situation. 4) For what I know, the game itself, up to the current moment, is not even DFSG-free. There is the promise of opening up the source code, but that hasn't even happened yet. 5) The FTP Masters are making an effort to publicly clarify the situation and calm all the people that is upset about this, even though -I repeat- there is no actual proposal of any package at the moment, and it has already been agreed that the game itself, as it is, cannot be included in Debian.The FTP Masters need time to talk it through and decide if they want to preventively establish some limits or not, and there is really no urgency, because there is not an actual proposal of any kind to accept or reject. Lets not put more pressure on them than needed. 6) What the FTP Masters are debating, as far as I know, is noth whether they will allow these kind of games (for some definition of "these kind" that ranges between everything adult-only to something more restricted). Up to now, as far as I know, there has been no explicit limist placed on what should be allowed in Debian (apart from being DFSG free). What I understand of what we're expecting from FTP Masters is not to allow anything that was forbidden, but to make a decision about whether some limits of some kind should be added explicitly beforehand, to avoid the problems caused by not having an explicit policy about this. 7) I know that there has always been some concern about establishing explicit moral limits to what gets into debian for fear that somehow someone might be abusing these rules to censor things that were not intended to be excluded from the beginning. 8) We trust the FTP Masters. Up to now, they have proven that they are sensible people who work hard to make Debian the best they can, as we all do. Thanks, guys! 9) For everyone who has an eye on this thread: Debian itself -the community, the project- has not done anything that can supportive of these kind of games (for some definition of "these kind"). The discussion and arguments on both sides have been made by individual people (DDs, Contributors or not) in the exercise of their own individual freedom of expression, and no one has talked yet in behalf of the whole project. 10) Fortunately, the debate has been polite and civil up to now (meaning no insults, personal attacks and the such), and confined to the Debian project
Re: debian-women / female GSoC candidates
2014-03-14 10:02 GMT+01:00 Daniel Pocock : > Hi, > > There are several female candidates for GSoC (both in Debian and also in > Ganglia where I am one of the admins this year) > > I'm just wondering if there are any female DDs who may not want to be a > mentor for any arbitrary project but may participate as a co-mentor on a > project where there is a female student? > > For example, while one mentor may be able to help the student with the > technical aspects of the project, an additional mentor may be able to > help the student become familiar with the community at large even if > they don't have time to become fully involved in the individual GSoC > project. I think it's a great Idea, and probably more productive than doing any of both things alone. Would it help if the female co-mentor is familiar with the project itself, or it's totally irrelevant? Like, for example, say that the project involves aspects thet the co-mentor is not familiar with (like a particular programming language or the tools used for developing whatever the project is about), or the idea is to keep both things -development of the project and involvement in debian structures- independent? Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnkjctcem5_rywx2y0x90nc+sgjnfzoz8_whfojfyn...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-11 23:34 GMT+01:00 Jo Shields : >> I honestly believe that almost none of those of us discusing the game >> has even tried it (I haven't at least) and I don't think anyone who >> hasn't even tested it can have a solid opinion. As far as I >> understand, we're all defining our position 2nd hand on Bas' analysis. > > Let's be very, very, very clear then. > > This is a game where you play a paedophile. The aim is to rape local > little girls, whilst evading the authorities. Success is rewarded with > graphic scenes of sex with children, failure with being thrown in > prison. The sex content is only optional in the sense that you can out > yourself to the authorities and get thrown in jail rather than continue > with the actual game content. Where "game content" consists of a few > hundred drawn images of graphic sex acts with children. The script > "unrpa.py" can be used to extract all the assets from the .rpa files in > the upstream-distributed game. > > We're not talking about some great moral position on artistic integrity > here. There are interesting visual novels made with Ren'Py worth > considering for Debian. But I don't think, on any sane planet, Hero > Paedo Fucks Kids In German is a game we want in the archive. > > *Seriously* how is it possible that this bullshit has taken up as much > time as it already has? Thanks for the analysis and for the clarity. This description of the game has nothing to do with the original one that I read. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVPPSuzcsMYRGbVZoQMafqZ=zue7tp-uwezsifikkhh...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-11 22:23 GMT+01:00 Sam Kuper : > Now that this conversation has descended into farce, I'm out. I only > hope that if the issue does cease to become moot[1] and Debian decides > to reject Unteralterbach (which, to repeat, I have no opinion about) > the project will not do so in a way that would prevent balanced > discussion of *other* works. The most important reason that has to weight, in my opinion, is whether is legally safe for debian and for the administrators of the mirrors (that want to distribute it). That's the reason why I CC'ed Debian Legal since the beginning I honestly believe that almost none of those of us discusing the game has even tried it (I haven't at least) and I don't think anyone who hasn't even tested it can have a solid opinion. As far as I understand, we're all defining our position 2nd hand on Bas' analysis. I would suggest everyone not to waste their energies discussing morals about this, or whether freedom of speech or morals should have a higher weight. I don't think that's the point. The latest reports I've read from the FTP masters were clear and their arguments well exposed, and I'm sure that would be the case here. If someone don't agree with whatever they decide, there are also ways to appeal the decision. After all that has been said, I don't really expect any DD to be brave enough to try to upload this game unless it's pretty clear that we have a mislead idea about what the game is about, Even if the game wasn't what it seems to be, someone has to be very brave or crazy to be able to face the attacks that would certanily follow, which are quite likely to turn into nasty personal attacks at some point, as has been already suggested here. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnzygyvp-8resa7eduskks27qcsruqqb-4r-4jxpp4...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-11 19:40 GMT+01:00 Tobias Hansen : > Am 11.03.2014 17:54, schrieb Miriam Ruiz: >> Right now there is no need to make any decision at all, it is >> in the hands of the FTP Masters, and we as a project trust them. > > As far as I am aware there is not even the need for the FTP masters to > decide because there is no Debian developer who is considering to > package or sponsor the game. (Or is there?) There was just someone who > is not a Debian developer or maintainer and who has not contributed to > the Games Team before who asked on debian-devel-games if this game can > be included. By being somewhat well-spoken and not mentioning child > abuse in the beginning he got the discussion going. But as long as there > is no Debian developer who considers uploading something like that I > really don't know why to continue the discussion. There is certainly no need of, at the moment, but I was referring to Paul's words: > I can think of a few people who'd likely support it's inclusion, but > this isn't the mainstream viewpoint. There's an ftpteam meeting about > this coming up, and there'll be an 'official' response. I haven't played the game myself, and I quite likely won't, so I don't have a personal opinion. All I know is that different people have different points of view about what the games contains. I guess that most of us are building our opinion on other's, thus being a 2nd or 3rd hand opinion. i honestly don't know how the game is like, whether it is legal or not in some countries or others, or if it would be removing some scenes. There is a great difference in one case and the other. Even before all the discussion started, when I noticed that it would be a controversial game I asked both the DPL and the FTP Masters to know their position. Just for the record, it is quite likely that at some point or other there will be some kind of games for adults proposed, probably not as this one, according to what has been said about it, but for adults nonetheless. It will be a good thing to know in advance what to do about that. It would be a waste of time to go through all the process of packaging the game to jave it rejected for social or moral reasons in the end. Legal reasons are a different thing. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVOnBk+HMtK49evy_MaVGmX0H34c=yki3q0bnrybdhq...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-11 17:39 GMT+01:00 Mateusz Jończyk : >> There is a danger, if the Debian project falls prey to a moral panic, that it >> will self-censor to the extent of producing a chilling effect upon itself. > > This is not a "moral panic". A real harm is being done. > According to statistics [2] > "One in 20 children (4.8%) have experienced contact sexual abuse." This has > probably a devastating effect on their lives. We should probably make an effort to keep this discussion civil, not only to set an example for other flames in the whole project, but also because this is the kind of discussion that can easily get out of hands. Right now there is no need to make any decision at all, it is in the hands of the FTP Masters, and we as a project trust them. Please, before giving any opinion, one way or the other, I'd suggest to be as calm as possible and re-read twice. We don't want to start a flame, and we don't want the noise. > A sane person tries to judge morally their actions, which often includes > predicting > their consequences. It has been mentioned here already and I find it likely > that > the game may trigger some people sick of paedophilia and more harm may be > done. Whenever I have used the word triggering in my mails, has been right for the opposite reason. I meant triggering the victims. We certainly don't want to cause any emotional breakdown to anyone, so I suggest we treat this topic calmly and as non-emotional as possible. When I mean triggering the victims, I mean triggering PSTD [1] [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posttraumatic_stress_disorder I honestly don't think that the game can make anyone behave in a way they wouldn't if they haven't played. The same way that violent people are not so because they play violent games. I haven't played the game myself, and I probably couldn't even if I had curiosioty enough to try, but most than anything, in that regards, I would be concerned about whether there is an implicit or explicit apology of stuff. That would certainly be illegal almost everywhere and, most of all, none of us would want it in Debian. To make it clear once and again, what I'm concerned about is the victims. > As has been mentioned previously [3], including this will have a devastating > effect > on Debian. > > Unfortunately we don't have debian-children so that we may forward it to that > list. This should probably belong more to debian-parents. Having a debian-children group has been among my TODO ideas for the future, but even if it currently existed, they would be the last I would want to forward this to. Hugs, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVNG-kO_9h-JkT9+bMaVBVSC9ugxNixS_9UNkPGZwTX=m...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-11 15:05 GMT+01:00 Daniel Pocock : > Is this within the scope of the FTP teams duties or should the FTP team > focus solely on the licensing/copyright adherence or does the FTP team > also screen things for more general compliance purposes? I would feel > that the latter would be a much bigger burden on the FTP team and maybe > things like this should automatically be dealt with elsewhere. As far as I know, yes, it is within the scope of their duties [1] [2] Greetings, Miry [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2014/03/msg1.html [2] https://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2014/03/msg00023.html -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVODk+uDsi9rHqCVfjaGy8TGLQA9=eeDnC==t6xr44y...@mail.gmail.com
Re: FYI: debian-legal is discussing the inclusion in the Debian archive of "erotic" interactive fiction depicting the sexual abuse of children
2014-03-11 14:55 GMT+01:00 Paul Tagliamonte : > The tone on that thread has been really respectful up until now; if > anyone does want to voice concern, please do maintain a very polite > tone. This is way too easy to get upset about (also, trigger warning on > the game and game description, it's pretty bad) +1 Thanks, Paul Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVP8z=g=6xY3UJfLOqDHtpTE-bFoZaGdOABpSimMqa=c...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Hello, I am new member
2014-03-09 17:01 GMT+01:00 Silvia Pérez : > > Hello > > My name is Silvia, I'm new on the list Hi Silvia!!! Welcome!!! :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVP8gbC50GKn3CPoPQoSjoAWAO9afNV=pmjn99e8jmj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: "Girls and software"
2014-02-11 5:04 GMT+01:00 Martín Ferrari :
> Even if the author seems to be looking for controversy, starting from
> the title, I think there are many interesting points in this article:
>
> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/girls-and-software
I don't think the title is the problematic thing, she seems to
actually be referring to girls. Regarding the contents of the article,
it essentially is a rant against how her son is discriminated against
in girl-oriented tech activities, and how she has never experienced
any kind of discrimination in the hackers' word. Good for her. I know
other women in that situation, that either have not experienced
discrimination themselves, or that they don't give much importance to
it ("If someone of any gender does something that violates my
boundaries, I assume it was a misunderstanding"). Of course, it might
have affected that she was already used to be discriminated against
for other reasons, according to her story ("As a little girl from farm
country who'd repeatedly been excluded from intellectual activities
because she wasn't wealthy or urban or old enough to be wanted").
After talking about herself, and how she startet to be a hacker, she
seems to agree with some of the more generally accepted thesis: That
we need to involve young girls in technologyu if we want to have
female hackers and technologists ("Twelve-year-old girls today don't
generally get to have the experiences that I did. Parents are warned
to keep kids off the computer..."). Of course, she is kind of
despising the fact that many women (and men) come to technology when
they are already grown up. That's some kind of agesim ("Young women
don't magically become technologists at 22. Neither do young men.
Hackers are born in childhood...").
The she cries about how her son is discriminated against ("his school
offered a robotics class for girls only. When my son asked why he
couldn't join, it was explained to him [...]. My son came home very
confused."), and goes on blaming us feminists ("Thanks so much,
modern-day "feminism", for putting very unfeminist ideas in my son's
head..."), as if it was us who invented discrimination. No comments on
this, although I have my personal ideas on why some women have this
point of view.
Still, she even accepts than even in her so gender-inclusive town
("There's another place in my life, besides my home, where the idea of
technology being a "guy thing" is totally absent: my hometown"), there
are some gender issues regarding technology and kids ("girls aren't
being raised to hack any more in my hometown than they are anywhere
else. When I talked to those fifth-grade math classes, the boys told
me about fixing broken video game systems or rooting their phones. The
girls didn't do projects--they talked about fashion or seeking
popularity--not building things").
Afterwards, she complains about being pushed by non-programming women
around her ("Sometimes I want to shout "you're not a programmer, what
are you doing here?!" ") to be more feminine, and how she might not be
a role model for many girls. The point of not being openly feminine is
relevant, though, as it helps being accepted and respected by both
males and other females in technological contexts, though I'm not
gonna expand on it here.
Oh, I also forgot to mention about the stereotypes she's including in
her rant ("who'd have me passive-aggressively redcarding anyone who
bothers me or feeling like every male is a threat", "hackers are
generally kind of socially inept").
I don't think her personal experience -or mine, or any particular one-
should be taken as universal. I acknowledge that she probably has
experienced what she's describing, and I'm glad that she's so happy.
And that's the end of what I can see in her article that has some
value for me. The problem of generalizing personal experiences is that
you leave out of the equation all those who have had different ones,
that's where objective data enter into account. And objective data,
statistics, tells us that the hacker's world for girls is and was a
very different thing that what she's describing in her article.
The last part is simply the standard rant about how we are
discriminating males ("Do not punish the men simply for being here.
"Male privilege" is a way to say "you are guilty because you don't
have boobs, feel ashamed, even if you did nothing wrong""), doing
artificial social engineering ("to drag grown women in chains to LUG
meetings and attempt to brainwash them to make you more comfortable
with the gender ratio"), and how we're scaring poor "good guys" with
our intents ("it just makes good guys afraid to interact with women
because they feel like they can't win").
So, my general impression of the article is that the author is
generally happy with the statu quo, that she doesn't think that there
is a problem with the gender imbalance and that nothing should be done
about it. That's okay, she's definitely free to think that, but some
of us thi
Re: www.debian.org/women now in Spanish too
2013/9/29 Laura Arjona : > Hi all > I've 'recently' joined the www team to upload Spanish translations to > the website, so one more step in getting involved in Debian \o/ > > This weekend I have committed some pending updates, among them, the > info of debian.org/women/* in Spanish (profiles are ongoing, thanks > Germana!). > > It's a small thing, but I'm very happy and I wanted to share it. That's great Thanks Laura!!! :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnx43-gn7erqtdvbe7oykgbxmdleofvudnr3m+atcf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Packaging task for newbies: Separate pink-pony into program and data
Hi, Sorry, the pink-pony issue in particular was finally solved by one of the newbies member of the Games Team, who stepped in really quick. but if you want, I can find other easy tasks to begin with :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cafotxvp+9rgcds5nz_1bco1kff82vpuimo-gcon1mwut_dt...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Packaging task for newbies: Separate pink-pony into program and data
2013/9/13 lesleyb > On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 05:28:30PM +0200, Miriam Ruiz wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Ive just uploaded pink-pony 1.3.1-1 to Debian [1] [2], and I've noticed > > that I should have separated the packages in program and data [3], > instead > > of having it all packaged into one single package. The main advantage of > > that approach -usually done with games and with other programs that have > > considerable architecture-independent data- is that the space occupied in > > the mirrors is much less. > > > > I was considering fixing it myself and doing a newer upload, but I > thought > > about what we were talking at DebConf about being able to provide > > reasonably easy tasks for people who are starting, so there it goes. If > > anyone is willing to do it, they will of course count with my help and my > > time, and -obviously- I will be available for doing the upload to the > > archive. > > > > Greetings and thanks, > > Miry > > > > > > [1] https://code.google.com/p/pink-pony/ > > [2] http://packages.debian.org/pink-pony > > [3] > > > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-archindepdata > > Well I have been thinking about trying to package something for a little > while. > > Here's a question though, the package is in sid and I'm running wheezy. > Does > that matter for packaging? > Not really, as long as you have all the dependencies available in wheezy, which is the case. I use pbuilder to create packages in a clean sid environment, no matter what I'm using in my desktop, but don't care about that for the moment. The brief answer in this case is, yes. The current version -everything's working except the separation between program and data- is not yet available in the archive, I uploaded it a short while ago, but it will soon be available at http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pink-pony/. At that point, the easy way to check it would be: dget http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/p/pink-pony/pink-pony_1.3.1-1.dsc cd pink-pony-1.3.1 debuild With build-essential, devscripts and the building dependencies installed. As it will compile and run without problem (provided that you have a OpenGL 2.0 capable card available, or you have emulation via software as I do), you will see that it will be enough for developing this package :) I've explained it quite quickly, but of course if you're interested I can explain it more in detail, step by step. Wanna try it? :) Greetings, Miry
Packaging task for newbies: Separate pink-pony into program and data
Hi, Ive just uploaded pink-pony 1.3.1-1 to Debian [1] [2], and I've noticed that I should have separated the packages in program and data [3], instead of having it all packaged into one single package. The main advantage of that approach -usually done with games and with other programs that have considerable architecture-independent data- is that the space occupied in the mirrors is much less. I was considering fixing it myself and doing a newer upload, but I thought about what we were talking at DebConf about being able to provide reasonably easy tasks for people who are starting, so there it goes. If anyone is willing to do it, they will of course count with my help and my time, and -obviously- I will be available for doing the upload to the archive. Greetings and thanks, Miry [1] https://code.google.com/p/pink-pony/ [2] http://packages.debian.org/pink-pony [3] http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-archindepdata
Re: IRC meeting this Saturday
2013/9/4 Mònica Ramírez > On Wed, 2013-09-04 at 08:44 +0200, Margarita Manterola wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > I'm interested in discussing more ideas of what we could do as Debian > > Women, to promote getting more women into Debian. We've had some > > ideas here on the list, but I think we are lacking some real-time > > discussion. So, I propose that we have an IRC meeting to discuss > > ongoing things related to Debian Women. > > That's a very good idea! > > > Everybody is welcome, regardless of the time they've been in Debian > > and regardless of gender. We want new ideas of what we can do and how > > to do it. So, if you have ideas or are interested in hearing other > > people's ideas, please join this Saturday, at 16:00 UTC. > > > > You can use the date command to find out the time in your timezone: > > date --date="2013-09-07 16:00 UTC" > > I'm not sure if I will be on time, but I'll try to join you as soon as > possible. > > I won't be able to connect to IRC this particular weekend due to family reasons, but I'll read the minutes later and will try to help. Greetings, Miry
Re: Outreach Program for Women: next round
2013/9/3 Stefano Zacchiroli > On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 02:54:09PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum wrote: > > 1. find people willing to act as "admins/organizers". Many people have > >expressed their willingness to help, but we still a least one person > >to do the coordination. > > I can't volunteer myself (sorry about that), but I think the most > pressing need is sending out a call for project proposals *specifically* > aimed at attracting submissions of non-development tasks. This is > because we are quite good at attracting development task proposals > (repeated GSoC successes testify that), but we have basically zero > experience in attracting other kinds of project proposals. > > Of course we can decide to participate in OPW with development tasks > only, but given OPW is at present the only initiative I'm aware of that > also encourages applications for non-development tasks, it would be a > pity to give up on that. > I don't have any experience participating in this kind of projects, so I'm not sure how to articulate some aspects in which I might be interested, and where I might need help, or even if they could be defined as a project, so don't take this as a proposal, but more as thinking aloud. We're trying to set up an interest group inside Debian [1] focused on kids [2], following the excellent work made ant the time by the Debian Jr project. Probably linked to that, or as part of it, I want to finish defining a rating system, especially for games [4], currently based on debtags [5]. There's a lot of things to do, both regarding infrastructure and understanding of kids. The ultimate goal is to get, in words of the Debian Pure Blends project itself: "a subset of Debian that is configured to support a particular target group out-of-the-box". I feel that the project would be somehow between the Games Team [6] and Debian Edu [7]. Whereas Debian Edu targets whatever might be useful for kids at school, Debian Kids should target what they might be using at home. There might be some slight overlap with both projects, but I think there is some space not covered by any of them. While there will be many tasks that are technical in nature, there will be many others that require skills and knowledge that the average Debian Developer/Maintainer/Contributor might not have, regarding the definition of both the criteria for classification and the analysis of the programs itself, as well as knowing about kids growing up and having an eye with kids to know what might interest them. I'm thinking mostly about people who are used to work with kids, some way or another. If anyone thinks that some interesting project might come out of this, I could probably be able -maybe with some help- to define it better, so feedback is welcome. Greetings, Miry [1] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends [2] https://wiki.debian.org/Kids [3] http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-jr/ [4] https://wiki.debian.org/OpenRating [5] https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/DebTags [6] https://wiki.debian.org/Games/Team [7] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu
Re: introduction
2013/9/2 Kinga Bernadett Böszörményi > Hi everyone, > Hi Kinga! Took me a while to start here. Today is school begin day in my country > and decided to begin my contribution here. But I still don't know how > may I help. I've some programming knowledge, can package small > programs. May try to mentor others how they can start cooperation with > Debian. > Is there any task list that I should check or something I may join to? > There's many things to do and many places to help, but it's usually not obvious from start. I'd suggest that maybe you could do a brief introduction of what things you might like, the kind of things you might have fun doing, or the kind of programs you like to use. There's many ways to collaborate with Debian, the most obvious being the maintaining of packages, or services, the translation, documentation, fonts, artwork, but also many others that might not be so obvious. The usual recommendation is to join a team or get a mentor, and both ways are good. When I started I was lurking through some different mailing lists to find out where I might fit best, but also got a lot of help from the people who were already in the project. And ask lots of questions :) Welcome to Debian, btw :) Greetings, Miry
Re: Asking about what's going on with the mentoring program
2013/9/2 myr > Hi, > > On 02/09/13 09:39, Margarita Manterola wrote: > > The problem, from my point of view, is that it's not easy for someone > > who is a total outsider to suddenly start trusting somebody else, who > > they have not met. We want to provide a space where people are welcome > > to ask questions and request guidance, but why would they do that with > > Jane Doe instead of Jean Moe? I think here lies the key to our issue. > maybe all the mentors could just keep themselves available in a chat > room where mentees can ask questions etc. Building up a closer > interaction with only some of them, should then happen spontaneously. > > just my humble opinion, if it helps ;) > > I like that idea a lot. I think it could work. Count on me for that. Greetings, Miry
Re: What do you think about a youtube series?
2013/8/30 Margarita Manterola > My little suvey hasn't had many answers yet, but one suggestion has > been to create a youtube channel with a series about doing work in > Debian, that would help people getting the ropes. > > I think this is an interesting idea, although I'm not 100% convinced > that it would actually work. In order for it to be successful, I > think we would need to have a group of several people producing the > content. > > I think that it would be a nice way to lower the entry barrier for the younger generations. Greetings, Miry
Re: D-W mailing list
I think it's a nice initiative, and I certainly thank those links. They are interesting and talk about things that I guess some of us think about. During our talk, Enrico suggested how a publicly accesible and archived mailing list as open as this might raise concerns on the people, though. I wonder whether people feel comfortable commenting those kind of things, here, or if Enrico might be right. Greetings, Miry 2013/8/15 Martín Ferrari > Hi, > > I've been in a few discussions at DebConf about the Debian Women > project, and a few times it was suggested to try to re-activate the > mailing list. > > I think a good way to help with that goal is to try to start discussions > on topics broader than Debian, as the problems facing Debian Women are > clearly not exclusive to Debian. Posting links to interesting articles > may be a way. > > Some of the topics raised today at the "Women in Debian 2013"[1] talk > (and some I've heard in related discussions this week) are (IMHO) worth > discussing: impostor syndrome, unconscious bias, privilege, outreach for > other minorities. > > To start, I have two articles I'd like to share. > > One about a guy who -for a change- stood up for a stranger being > harassed in public transport [2]. And a second one about raising a girl > to not be "nice" [3]. > > If people prefer I don't do this, please tell me to stop. > > Tincho. > > [1]: http://penta.debconf.org/dc13_schedule/events/1012.en.html > [2]: > http://chrisbrecheen.blogspot.de/2013/07/changing-creepy-guy-narrative.html > [3]: > > http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/i-do-not-want-my-daughter-to-be-nice/ > > -- > Martín Ferrari > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact > listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: http://lists.debian.org/520cb376.3060...@tincho.org > >
Re: Debconf proposal, but I need presenter
2013/5/31 Laura Arjona : > 2013/5/31 Miriam Ruiz : >> >> I plan to be there too, I would be happy to help. >> > Thanks Miry! > >> I was thinking, wouldn't it be nice if you could also be there via >> videoconference, if you can't be there in person? > > That would be great (I was not sure that could be possible, and feel > shy to ask). If it's not possible, I can be there via mumble or IRC. It would be quite sad if we weren't able to do something like that, wouldn't it? :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVOMs=wxji1zdurbqbu16dbb6_dg1hq_voyey8dkxkj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debconf proposal, but I need presenter
2013/5/29 Patty Langasek : > On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 02:36:38PM +0200, Laura Arjona wrote: >> The main problem is that I am not going to the conference (I wish I >> could!). I would not mind (would like very much in fact!) other person >> to present the work there. >> Anybody interested? > > I'm hoping to go this year, but it depends on how sponsorship shakes out. If > I go, I'm more than happy to help with this. I plan to be there too, I would be happy to help. I was thinking, wouldn't it be nice if you could also be there via videoconference, if you can't be there in person? Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVORbs3DG0E=xumwjtggjcgrhr0hexjm57gd4qpnsht...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian and Politeness
2013/5/27 Angela Fuß : > As I do not know the Debian Community very well so far I cannot say anything > about meritocracy and elitism in Free Software Communities or in Debian. Just for the record, I'm not against meritocracy. I think meritocracy -real meritocracy- is a good thing. I was just mainly moving this debate towards a public list. Meritocracy is a good value, but it's not the only one. Also, take into account that there is never a pure meritocracy, there are many other factors interfering. > I am mainly a user but as my man is a Debian Developer and together we work > with schools in Germany that use Debian Edu I am very interested in the > Debian and Free Software Community (for more information see > http://people.skolelinux.org/pere/blog/tags/intervju/). > > As I get your commitment to politeness, inclusiveness and human values, > Miry, my question is: > What would you really like to have in the Debian Community? What would you > like to do about the situation? And how could we others help you to fulfil > your interest and standing? I was just opening the debate for everyone to participate. The main question would be: is technical capacity the only important thing in the Debian Community, or should other things taken into account, like the capacity to work with other people. I don't have the answer. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnm6s+tp3rz4sk5jsramjpf3bjitcd7ijwmdabww0y...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian and Politeness
2013/5/27 Lisi Reisz : > On Monday 20 May 2013 09:33:06 Miriam Ruiz wrote: >> Free Software is about meritocracy and elitism > > I have been unhappy with this since I first read it, and had held off saying > anything while I pondered. Just for the record, and to avoid misinterpretations, I was just trying to be descriptive in my email, I didn't say I was happy with that, I was just describing what I see. Of course, you might not agree with me, and your perception might be totally different. If any of you are not perceiving the FLOSS social environment around you as technically elitist, feel free to say it, I'd be really happy to hear it. It might just be me. My personal opinion is that for changing things, we have to be able to acknowledge what's truly happening, and start moving from there. I didn't say I was fully happy with the reality, in fact I'm not, and, while I realize that some level of meritocracy is positive, my opinion is that politeness, inclusiveness and human values are too. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cafotxvn0gx3xe8z1+hgppwteedtt3rn72-xezce-o76gkcu...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Debian and Politeness
2013/5/20 Angela Fuß : > Hej Miriam, > >> Free Software is about meritocracy and elitism, or at least it >> pretends to be. > > Can you explain that part a bit more? > Is that something that you sense or think how it is? > Or is it something that people say about Free Software or Debian? > Does Debian want to be a community with meritocracy and elitism in your point > of view? > > I think I do not really get what you want to say with that sentence. And as I > consider it a very interesting statement I thought I better ask Well, it is generally considered that Free Software projects are a meritocracy [1], meaning that "an elite group of people whose progress is based on ability and talent rather than on class privilege or wealth" [2]. Ideally, whenever a project is ruled by pure meritocracy, people would occupy a position in it according to their capacities, work, effort and results, instead of being randomly positioned. As nice as this idea might be, there's a big part of it that it's just part of a myth [3]: "If you have the right background, and contribute in the right area in the right way, FOSS actually can act as a meritocracy, and frequently does". Meritocracy in Free Software is a myth in the same sense as fairness and equality in occidental societies, or objectivity in science. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meritocracy#Free_.2F_open_source_software_projects [2] http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meritocracy [3] https://observatorio.iti.upv.es/resources/new/6565 Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cafotxvnaiovcy+npb+ra-9x+opp7-q01wxngbeebjuweyub...@mail.gmail.com
Debian and Politeness
Hi, I just wanted to move here an issue that arises now and then in Debian. That is, politeness and friendliness vs. technical competence. Quite a few people in the Free Software world seem to think -wrongly, in my opinion- that both things are opposed, and that a technical competent person won't care whether the environment is friendy or aggressive because they're just, well, technically competent. Moreover, I have the impression that for some people the issue of friendlyness might be a nice add-on, but nothing really important. Something that can be put aside when something else is more important, from their point of view. Free Software is about meritocracy and elitism, or at least it pretends to be. It's true that some people are more competent in some areas, and have more knowledge than others, but it's often quite easy to turn that technical elitism into a more global elitism, and ending up thinking that some people just won't add any value to the project, and that's plainly wrong in my opinion. There's one slogan from LinuxChix that I love, that states "be polite, be friendly". I think it perfectly describes two things that any open community should have, at least, try to have. If we want to have a healthy community, and if we want to attract other people that could add value to the project, we will have to be able to keep a welcoming and friendly environment. I don't see how having that should make us technically inferior or anything like that, right the opposite. I don't want to start a flame, and I'm not sure if I'm doing right by opening this debate here, but I thought that maybe other people might have something to say, or wanted to add their point of view to the debate. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVPjbKehx4tqexMKs=caw+tvdv55kmpyf4otbcwf_kj...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Translating "Debian Women"
2013/5/16 Christian PERRIER : > And, yes, I fully agree with Jordi that the idea that the male form is > a neutral form. It is not. And, contrary to what people who like to > make jokes about all this, this is *not* a minor problem. +1 I totally agree with you both. The male form used as neutral conveys the mistaken message that masculine is neutral, and feminine is exceptional, and it is indeed a serious thing. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cafotxvntybwtcckn6xtzpdsdrv8mqytnocpyn8pzrz-xbm3...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Translating "Debian Women"
2013/5/16 A : > Hi all! > > Greek is a gendered language too. One way we found to make it more neutral > in written form is by inserting @ at the end of the gendered word, instead > of the gendered suffix. So, "si está interesado/a.." would be written as "si > está interesad@.." Just an idea That is often that, but it's not a good idea in my opinion. The main drawback, among others, is that it would breat the text to speech translators. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVNRm2xixLAC0THTpbMbLy7QOGBgJwh=aieayupgu4s...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Mentors
2012/11/4 Lisi Reisz : > So although she wants to be a maintainer, and finds studying how to be one > from manuals difficult, she is not going to ask for a mentor. > > So often, women are their own worst enemies. :-( You can't help those who don't want to be helped. Don't worry too much about it :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/cafotxvottpyq1m2vaqxxtxks+bfx5gbxhjagsnxpjgex11m...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Ana Carolina and Monica finally in DD-land!
2012/3/29 Francesca Ciceri : > Hi Debian Women people, > > probably who was in the last days on our IRC chan already knows it, > but... > > ... Ana Carolina Comandulli and Monica Ramirez Arceda are now Debian > Developers! > > I had the pleasure to meet both at DC11 and I just want to say that I'm > very happy that they finally officialized their participation to the > Debian project, as they are both brilliant and tireless in their work. Cool :) Congratulations Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/CAFotxVMCpS6oih7u5TeK0G7qhFXQUPchsqn-UctEc-=P0T=-w...@mail.gmail.com
Re: New Debian developer: madamezou
2011/6/9 Erinn Clark : > * Christian PERRIER [2011:06:09 07:09 +0200]: >> >New Debian Contributors >> >--- >> >> >Nine applicants have been accepted [24] as Debian Developers, two >> >applicants have been accepted [25] as Debian Maintainers, and eight >> >people have started to maintain packages [26] since the previous issue >> >of the Debian Project News. Please welcome Bert Agaz, Olivier Berger, >> >Gary Briggs, Jonathan Carter, Francesca Ciceri, Serge Hallyn, Anton >> ^^ >> >> >> Congratulations, Francesca. I think that many of us have witnessed the >> invaluable work you're doing with DPN as well as italian >> localization...or Debian Women "2nd birth" actions. but I really >> think it deserves some more light. > > Awesome news. Big congrats, Francesca! Welcome! Yay! Welcome Francesca! :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTinOZyawU-v=ghrnrruy5fj45pc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: D-W at DebConf
2011/4/29 Meike Reichle : > Hi all > > I've seen some people mentioning a DW event at DebConf, that is, that it > would be nice to have one again. Unless I've missed something there were no > volunteers yet. I am planning to attend DebConf, so I volunteer to take care > of that. I'll submit a proposal for a dw talk/workshop/session this weekend. > I was thinking a little talk on the what and why and then maybe a BoF > afterwards to collect new ideas. I plan to go to DebConf this year too, so count on me if you need/want some help. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/banlktim2ntie_rcdk68h8p7rgjh58iy...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Project for someone with time and will: website update
2011/4/28 Karolina Kalic : > > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 20:02, Lesley Binks > wrote: >> >> On 28 April 2011 17:47, Karolina Kalic wrote: > >> Why should we make it harder on ourselves just so some bloke(!) can >> get the kudos of having built a website for part of the Debian project? > > Because of this kind of insulting in the past Debian has lost many > contributors. Fortunately, there are so much more people in Debian who are > kind and respectful towards other contributors including my boyfriend and > me, and we don't need any other kudos then that. I only gave a constructive > suggestion, this kind of responses are example how we won't attract more > people/women in Debian. I really think that you should try to calm down a bit and not taking this so personally. I understand that you can feel hurt and offended, and I guess thar probably the difference of cultures is working here too. Some cultures tend to be more assertive and direct than others, and it takes time to get used to it. I personally thank Lesley for being so clear and straightforward, because sometimes trying to be too politically correct only makes this kind of discussions endless. Please, keep in mind that some of the people here prefering a woman for doing this task, and having technology preferences -in this case with the goal of have a technological synergy with the main Debian site- is nothing personal against your boyfriend. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTimkFs+VvSZ157uJjO-2Yqd+=8o...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Updating stats, thinking about what to do
2011/4/18 Margarita Manterola : > Hey all, Hi! > Today, after chatting a bit with Meike, I took the time to update the > stats and the graph located at > http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Statistics Thanks! Those stats are really useful to know what's going on. > Since I did it last year, we've only had 2 new female uploaders, and > Francesca has started the process to become a non-uploading DD (which > will be tracked in the stats as a any other DD, I guess) but that's > about it. > > I've realized that no new female contributor has become a DD since > 2008. And it worries me. It's been 3 years since Meike and Miriam > became DDs. We want more new women joining the project, and I feel > that if it's not happening, it's because we are doing something wrong. > > Also, quoting Meike: "When the DPL was elected in 2004 there were 911 > Debian Developers eligible to vote, 4 of them were female. Shortly > after debian-women was founded. When the DPL was elected in 2011 there > were again 911 Debian Developers eligible to vote, but this time 12 of > them were women. Optimistically put that's three times as many. > Realistically that puts us from 0.4% to 1.3%" > > Last year, we did the IRC training sessions which worked fine, and I > hope that they can happen again this year. Apart from that, is there > something that we might do to get more women to contribute to Debian? > > I think it'd be very interesting to read the opinions of those that > are not really involved yet, because that would help us get new points > of view, and help us achieve our goals better. We seem to be having a reasonable upwards trend in the number of first uploads, even though not as good as it was between 2003-2005. It would be nice to find out how to get such a good result in the number fo first uploads made by a female again, and it would also be nice to know how to transform a higher number of those first uploads into DDs. The increase of female DDs between 2005 and 2008 might be statistically related to the increase of first uploads between 2003 and 2005 according to the graph. It could also be unrelated, the evidence is not very solid. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/BANLkTik4QZpNjLpyc6hxttfcZgs+w...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Slides about Women in Free Software
2011/1/13 Don Armstrong : > On Thu, 13 Jan 2011, Miriam Ruiz wrote: >> 2011/1/13 Lars Wirzenius : >> > A better solution than slides designed for indepent reading is to have a >> > separate document for that. In many cases it can be just the outline one >> > writes before making the slides. Indeed, making such an outline often >> > results in a better presentation, and better slides. It is a little bit >> > more work, of course. >> >> That seems a good idea, I'll try to do it next time I have to do a >> presentation :) > > I personally find that LaTeX beamer makes the interleaving of slides > and notes easy (if you're a fan of LaTeX); I think OOo can do it too, > but I've honestly never tried. LaTeX is on my ToDo list, but it not really on the top ot the queue. I want to learn it at some point, though. Thanks for the suggestion :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktin39tiygm5ncgykw_cb_egrkrv8w3pqpt-jy...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Slides about Women in Free Software
2011/1/13 Lars Wirzenius : > A better solution than slides designed for indepent reading is to have a > separate document for that. In many cases it can be just the outline one > writes before making the slides. Indeed, making such an outline often > results in a better presentation, and better slides. It is a little bit > more work, of course. That seems a good idea, I'll try to do it next time I have to do a presentation :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/AANLkTikh=_hetrec7thosj7twod3-jxirc2fuelrg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Slides about Women in Free Software
2011/1/12 Amaya : > Hi Miriam, > > I finally had a chance to look at your slides. Wow. > I found concepts there that are amazing, I learned so much. > I specially loved the Meritocracy Myth, and the Byrne scale (the way > gender imbalance is perceived by each gender). > > I want to beg you to blog about this concepts. Slides are fun, but > sometimes a lot of "explaining" is missing, just the highlight of deeper > explanations, and I'd like to hear more on these topics. I should blog more, in general, I guess, but I'll try to write something about all those things. If it is interesting, we could even think of planning a BoF or workshop or something for next DebConf. > Miriam Ruiz wrote: >> [3] http://www.slideshare.net/inniyah/women-in-free-software-musac-len-2010 >> (English) > > I read the slides in English and found several minor typos as in using > "now" instead of "know". Unfortunately I hate office suits, but i would > be happy to send you a txt patch : Thanks!!! I would be glad if you could send me the patch in whatever format you choose, I'll take care of that :) > Also, some of the graphs render very pixeled, or not at all (page 42, > "what men think" does not show at all). Maybe it is just the pdf, I have > not looked at the odt file yet. Yup, probably the export to PDF might get some suboptimal results. > Anyway, this slides should not be buried in the Internet, please make an > html version of them so that they can get properly indexed or browsed > online :* I might try to convert it to HTML if that's possible from ODP files. I'll investigate into that :) > Thanks, this was the finding of the year for me :) > (I know it's only January yet). Thanks!! Kisses, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlkti=lvymj5rthupeuvgjcdus8pztgv_vd-2cjf...@mail.gmail.com
Slides about Women in Free Software
Hi, On the 12th of November 2010 I participated in a meeting about Free Software, Art and Women [1], talking about Women in Free Software. I have finally finished translating my slides [2] into English [3], in case someone might be interested in them. They are also available for download [4] in both PDF and ODT formats in case someone prefers that. Feedback is obviously welcome :) Greetings, Miry [1] http://ciberfeminarte.org.es/ [2] http://www.slideshare.net/inniyah/mujeres-en-el-software-libre-musac-len-2010 (Spanish) [3] http://www.slideshare.net/inniyah/women-in-free-software-musac-len-2010 (English) [4] http://www.miriamruiz.es/slides/ [4.1] http://www.miriamruiz.es/slides/2010_Women_Free_Software.pdf [4.2] http://www.miriamruiz.es/slides/2010_Women_Free_Software.odp [4.3] http://www.miriamruiz.es/slides/2010_Mujeres_Software_Libre.pdf [4.4] http://www.miriamruiz.es/slides/2010_Mujeres_Software_Libre.odp PS: Happy New Year! :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktik4afuhpz12d08pqw+nrcm2kuv9c4_cccbuc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [proposal/poll] $distro-women BoF at FOSDEM?
2010/12/13 Anne Ghisla : >> For what concern me, I think it could be a great chance. And I'm available to >> organize it (with some help) :) > > I fully second the proposal, and am willing to help in organise it! I > participated to DUCC-IT and I look forward for more discussion on the > topic. I think it's a great idea too :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlkti==usmzqqycftpk0hib+civq0h30f+72kxzk...@mail.gmail.com
Fwd: FOSDEM 2011 call for talks
Hi all! :) Are we interested in this? Greetings, Miry -- Forwarded message -- From: Wouter Verhelst Date: 2010/9/30 Subject: FOSDEM 2011 call for talks To: debian-devel-annou...@lists.debian.org, d...@debian.org Hello World, Debian has been a constant presence at FOSDEM for the past few years, and this year will be no different. The FOSDEM organizers have decided last year to no longer assign devrooms to distributions, but to instead group all distributions into a common devroom, turning that into a distributions miniconf. For the next edition, on the 5th and 6th of February 2011, the concept will be similar. Though it is not yet certain what the details will look like, it is certain that there will be room for distribution-related talks; so this is a call for talk proposals for the distributions rooms at FOSDEM 2011. People interested in doing a talk related to either Debian specifically or distributions in general, should send a full proposal to the dist2...@lists.fosdem.org mailinglist. Thanks, and see you at FOSDEM, -- The biometric identification system at the gates of the CIA headquarters works because there's a guard with a large gun making sure no one is trying to fool the system. http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2009/01/biometrics.html signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: presentation & wanting to contribute
2010/9/29 Mònica : > Hello, > > First, I would like to introduce myself: my name is Mònica, I am an IT > teacher and have been in free software world for some years. Specifically, > I've been using Debian for, more or less, 10 years and have been > collaborating with some local groups to promote its use. > > I don't know if I have enough technical abilities to be a DD, but I really > would like to try it or to help in any other area. Moreover, before summer, I > contacted with Ana and Miriam from Debian and they encouraged me to try this > experience. So, I think it's the time I contribute to Debian :-) > > I have read "Bits from Debian Women project" and I am really interested in > the IRC training sessions. Moreover, I think I need a mentor to guide me > because I am a little bit lost... Debian is huge!!! Maybe it's better I write > to mentor...@women.debian.org and explain what I know, isn't it? Welcome Mònica :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktinswb8utmkzzflsevzmsbo-yswws0skt2mg+...@mail.gmail.com
Re: request for approval and review- announce for DW round table in Perugia
2010/9/12 Erinn Clark : > * Francesca Ciceri [2010:09:12 10:54 +0200]: >> Can I speak in the "Debian Women" name? And what you think about it? > > Yes, by all means. And this sounds really great, I can't wait to hear how it > goes! Yay! Go for them, Francesca! :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktik2rzppeowx3jk5h8o47ymmd3fymfeo=dvmg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [LOL] about male's behaviour on IRC
2010/9/1 Llanos : > Hi > I didn't want to offend anyone, I understand you point but I reckon this > joke in particular is kind of neutral (kind of). It makes a joke for both > sides and I personally don't think they are rude or can offend seriously but > as Miry says it might do. Apologies for it :) I don't think you did, don't worry, otherwise someone might have probably stepped in and complain. I was just agreeing with Fernanda in that we should better not go too far along the lines that this thread is going, as it is not likely that nothing positive might have come out of it, and there is some real risk that we end up getting the opposite. So far nothing has happened and no one has been offended, but I just felt that it was better to give a warning beforehand :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlkti=xbarwrdu+f7z5+tjsopzxro1e1nf_xzvdf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [LOL] about male's behaviour on IRC
2010/9/1 Fernanda G Weiden : > I have the impression this thread is going down a dangerous path... I kind of agree. Take into account that we're a multicultural and multinational project, that involves very diverse people with very different sensibilities. This means that it's quite likely that some -or many- of them might understant the jokes in a different way that they're meant to, and that some misunderstanding might happen. This kind of jokes that try to make fun of stereotypes -even though the intention is obviously good, trying to create a bright mood by laughing at the things that worry us- can have the opposite effect on some people that might understand them as an accusation. I'd be very careful with jokes about these sensitive topics, as we want people to be comfortable. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktik1obs2chx09n+_te_krx0xbt5bnxqdmwden...@mail.gmail.com
Re: [proposal] IRC Meeting
2010/8/30 Francesca Ciceri : > 3. Statistics: ok, we have done the first step. We have some numbers on > which discuss. But I think we can analyze much deeper this number, or if we > need, add more. I can try to compile a stastics for male DD/DM to compare the > female contributors statistics to something. Or we can compare it with data > of non-Debian female contributor to see if it is a problem in Debian or a > a general women problem (probably this, but we need to verify our past job, > doesn't we?) Hint: > what about other distros? Do they have similar statistics about female > contributors? I've searched a little and I've found an Ubuntu Census Survey[1] > that's not gender-related and not very interesting cause the sample is build > not only from developers but also from users (based on devel-ML but also > users' forums). The women percentage, indeed, is > 2,4%. > > More interesting, I think, the FLOSS-POLS' studies: not really updated but > things aren't change so much. I'm trying to understand something from this > [2]. I'm very interested in this point. I think that it is important to have data to decide which are the most important obstacles for having more female developers and at which point are we not attracting them. > These are the point I think we can discuss. So, if you're ok with the meeting > we can decide the date ;) A new IRC meeting is OK for me :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktin-2vqoay2kyebtbdsgz=atn=xjrnsuzaquf...@mail.gmail.com
Re: proposal social networking link icon in the site and feed aggregation
2010/8/26 Alice Ferrazzi : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 08/26/2010 09:05 AM, Maia Kozheva wrote: >> It's not Twitter. I'm allergic to microblogging in general. Identi.ca is >> not any better in not causing me to attempt to claw my eyeballs out. So >> sick of seeing references it everywhere that I just unsubscribed from >> the mailing list just so I wouldn't have to see it. > sorry for talk about microblogging i don't like it too > but thay are useful for be seen ... > im so sorry about it, but it was only a proposal > > but what you think of the women planet.debian.net ? I suppose every person has different points of view, and different criteria. I like microblogging a lot and I find it very useful for being up to date about lots of things, and I'm probably not alone in the world in that regard. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimt9eopmfww+nnv+nhpo0d3rzed7z+qhwp2c...@mail.gmail.com
Re: resource availability and (naive) ideas
2010/8/29 Helen Faulkner : > > > OK, it's time I got my act together. I'll run the mentoring program again, if > you like and if nobody else steps up to do it. I am absolutely happy for > someone else to step up to do it, though. Yay!!! It will be great to have you back!!! /me hugs helen happily :) > I can't do anything at all for a week from now, my existing commitments are > simply too great. Also I am waaay, embarassingly out of touch with all kinds > of > technical things - I haven't done much of anything technical in a couple of > years now (parenthood and study have gotten in the way of that), so I might > need > advice on that. But the looking after mentors and stuff is the kind of thing > I'm good at, so, if you like, I'll find the time to do it and keep an eye on > it. > If I find I can't make the time I'll let you all know, but I think I can > commit > to at least 6 months, at the level of effort I believe this thing to be. Don't worry about the technical part, we will give you whatever support and help you might need :) Kisses, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlkti=jirw0wwfeuzshbaosx+r7vjl6=agcca4rg...@mail.gmail.com
Re: resource availability and (naive) ideas
2010/8/26 Margarita Manterola : > So, I've been thinking about this, and it's not like we don't have > enough women: we have between 20 and 30 active women, maybe more, and > that's a big enough number to have a small meeting. However, we are > all over the world, flying to an in-person meeting takes time and (a > lot of) money. And also, doing a women-only meeting sounds weird to > me. We don't want to isolate that much from the whole Debian > community. I don't think that the point should be to do a women-only club, or forbid the participation of men. Nobody would like that and it definitely would be counter-productive. One of the distinct and more valuable features of Debian Women is that it has never been designed with the gender of its members and contributors in mind, but with the common goal we're pursuing: having more female contributors. In that sense, a Debian Women meeting shouldn't be a meeting of the women in Debian, but a meeting of people with the common goal of promoting the increase of female contributors to the Project. In that way, I think such a meeting would be something positive if we focused not only on who is attending (as long as the number of females is higher than some critical mass, say 30%), but on pursuing the goals of the project. So, I'm not in favour of having a women-only event, but I am of having a women-oriented one. An event that can help to overcome fears, to promote visibility, to create bonds, to share ideas and projects, to analyze what the problems are and what measures can be taken to overcome them, and so on. I think it would be very positive. The problem, as you say, is that we're too disperse all along the world. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktinzqkk1umbqukexdqbuaz31wzj-xnz1ddn3d...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Trying to get conclusions from Debian Women Statistics
2010/8/26 Margarita Manterola : > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 1:12 AM, Miriam Ruiz wrote: > >> if those first uploaders keep contributing without turning into DDs or >> DMs, or if they just get tired and go away. Would it be possible to >> also have some data comparing the dates of the first upload and last >> upload, and maybe the number of uploads in-between to see if they >> might provide an answer? > > I could try to do this, but I feel reluctant to put in the wiki, > because it'd show too much information that might not be nice to > aggregate in a wiki page. I'm thinking of maybe doing a graph and not > put any names to it, and don't put the information in any verbatim > way. That should be enough. What I'm trying to find out is whether we're scaring women out after their first or second upload, or if they keep contributing but have no interest in becoming DDs or DMs (or if they are scared of that, or if they don't consider themselves proficient enough, or something like that, but finding out that will need a deeper analysis). Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktinqurkgjpqu5ru9gfrdq2utzydkb1haxmbj8...@mail.gmail.com
Trying to get conclusions from Debian Women Statistics
Hi all! Looking at the graph at http://wiki.debian.org/DebianWomen/Statistics has made me think. The blue line is increasing at a some speed (about 3 or 4 first uploads per year), what means that we're constantly having new women doing packaging stuff. On the other side, the red an yellow lines don't seem to move too much, what means that we are not being able to convert those first uploaders into DDs or DMs. I wonder if those first uploaders keep contributing without turning into DDs or DMs, or if they just get tired and go away. Would it be possible to also have some data comparing the dates of the first upload and last upload, and maybe the number of uploads in-between to see if they might provide an answer? I also wonder about the same graph for all the contributors to the project, whether the increase rates and the conversion between first uploads and the number of DDs, DMs (or NMs) are comparable. Would it be possible to try to get some indicators from the statistics in the way I'm mentioning? It might provide clues about the most effective measures to take. Greetings and thanks, Miry PS: I wish I was an expert analyzing social statistics, but I'm not, so if anyone is proficient enough in that area, I'd definitely like to hear their opinions -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimqedffoxtrkjcxbtmtb-ol09p8prf5gc-rc...@mail.gmail.com
Re: resource availability and (naive) ideas
2010/8/26 स्वक्ष : > On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 00:54, Francesca Ciceri wrote: >> >> Maybe a Ubuntu/Debian-Women meeting? ;) > > Fantastic idea. I'd love to see a collaboration between UW and DW. We > are having our meet tomorrow so this is something that should be on > the agenda :) At which time is the meeting? Thanks, Miry PS: I assume it will be in #ubuntu-women at Freenode, please correct me if I'm wrong :) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimomdwhijsf=m6xiafu4bisbwevuhqqrapbb...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Statistics of female participation in packing in Debian
2010/8/24 Margarita Manterola : > I know. But that's one of the things that we are trying to fix with > debian-women, isn't it? There is nothing wrong with being a woman, > and there should be nothing wrong about letting the world know about > it. In any case, we obviously wouldn't want to list someone that > would rather stay annonymous, but I think it would be encouraging for > other women to see a list of all the others that are involved. Yup, I definitely agree with that! :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktimgc9rnefhs3_=zfkd3=sjqijpnf+hd3eeh5...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Intro
2010/6/1 Mackenzie Morgan : > Hello, > I'm Mackenzie. I've been hanging out in #debian-women IRC intermittently over > the last year or so I suppose. It depends how often I'm connecting to OFTC at > the time, though it's been more lately as I navigate the Mentors process. I'm > now co-maintaining a package in Debian, and when the software I'm working > on[0] is ready, I'll be packaging it. I'm a uni student, nearly done, in > Virginia (wanted to type "Washington, DC" but I moved 2 days ago). Sorry for the delay, I'm so extremelly busy these days that I'm not really up to reading all muy email. Welcome Mackenzie :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: http://lists.debian.org/aanlktilstxrfvqzqn8gp28t6lipeqkfwiy7plal1c...@mail.gmail.com
Media query: article on women who contribute to Debian
Hi, Sam Varghese of iTWire has told me that he's interested in doing a piece about women in the Debian project and has sent me the following queries to be posted on this list, in case someone else is interested in contributing. I think it might be a good way to give a bit more visibility to the project. > Anyone who wishes to respond, please do so to sam.vargh...@itwire.com > > 1. How did you come to get involved in Debian? > > 2. What are the pros you have found in being part of the team? > > 3. And what are the cons? > > 4. Do you attend the yearly DebConf? If not, why? > > 5. Do you find it difficult to be part of such a small minority at a > gathering like this > or does the common interest override that? > > 6. Few women are drawn to free/open source software. How do you think women > can > be encouraged to join projects which are in desperate need of contributors? > > If you have any other comments, please feel free to add them at the end. Also > please give your full name, a short bio, and indicate how you would like to > be referred > to in the article (first time would obviously be by your full name, I'm > asking about the > second reference as some people like their first name to be used, others are > okay > with the surname). Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
OWNED: MikeeUSA's code in geekfeminism.org
Hi, If you have ever been harassed by MikeeUSA and wanna have a laugh, take a look at http://geekfeminism.org/2009/10/19/mikeeusas-code-now-available-on-geekfeminism-org/ More info: http://geekfeminism.org/tag/mikeeusa/ and http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/MikeeUSA Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: shebuntu debian project
2009/9/30 Rayna : > Hi all, > > I'm new to Debian-women, that's my first posting on the list ;o) Welcome!!! :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: shebuntu debian project
2009/9/29 myriam leggieri : > I'm an italian girl and a computer science master student. > I'd like to enlight (even if against my own interest) the Ivan's > nationality. You other human beings should comprehend him: he sees > half-naked or bitch-weared women/girls/"female children" not only on > television but also walking around the streets. and the hypothesis of women > being not as able as men in "some fields" (quite everything with the except > of 'sexual toys') is so tough that it's become a convinction. > This is why I dream to get out of this medieval country as soon as possible > (and in the meantime I'm trying to organize something more even if, believe > me, it's quite impossible to change anything here) I don't think that you're being fair by stereotyping all italian males that way. It's probably quite likely that italian TV is very mysoginistic, but there are probably nice guys in Italy as well as the bad ones, just as everywhere. I know of quite a few italian males which are really lovely and great persons (and there are some in Debian, btw). I understand that you might be really angry with the italian society, but please try to avoid generalizations and stereotyping. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: shebuntu debian project
2009/9/29 Ivan Serra : > Hi to All > My name is Ivan fro Italy and I'm Ubuntu user and I love this OS > I created a new project on Launchpad and I'm just asking you help about that > > https://launchpad.net/ubuntushe Hi Ivan, First of all, thanks for acknowledging that there is a problem and trying to do something about it. Although I wish you luck in your project, I seriously doubt that the solution for the low amount of women involved in Free Software will come from developing a distribution targeted at women. In any case, I'm curious about it. Apart of the obvious possible differences, like having a pink theme with lots of teddy bears, ponies, flowers and the such, which is something that some subgroup of women and girls might find attractive, in which way do you plan to customize the distribution that wouldn't fit a random newbie user, male or female? I've had a look at the current list of developers [1], and I see that there doesn't seem top be any women involved. As an important suggestion, I recommend you to constantly ask for feedback to your target audience, so that you actually fulfill their needs and not just some stereotype. The best would be if you were able to attract female developers. In general, Debian tries to be integrative, so you won't find the division you have in Ubuntu (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Easy Peasy,...) and we try to work cooperatively towards a single universal system. Most of the stuff you're proposing for your distro would probably be useful for people outside your target audience, and it would be a pity that they couldn't access it. One thing I'm wondering about, is whether you have developed some research to find out that the kind of distribution you're proposing is what is really needed for solving the exact problems you're targeting at, or if it just comes out of intuition, If it's the latter, I seriously recommend you to double check that your efforts will lead to something productive and that you're not just wasting your time in it. I wish you luck, though. Greetings, Miry [1] https://launchpad.net/~ubushe.m/+members#active -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: let's not move backwards
2009/9/10 martin f krafft : > also sprach Miriam Ruiz [2009.09.10.1137 +0200]: >> I'm just thinking aloud, but I wonder if it might make sense to >> also have a women-only mailing list, so that women who otherwise >> wouldn't intervene can do it, kinda Systers or the Girls Only >> mailing list at LinuxChix. Dunno if there would be demand for >> that, but I have the feeling that something positive might come >> from it. > > I would consider this a step backwards. > > Whenever I talk about debian-women to anyone, I am proud that we > have managed to revolutionise Debian in many ways, and that the need > for debian-women began to shrink, because the ideas and directions > that this project defined and pursued spilled into pretty much all > other parts of our project. > > I am proud that we've been a mixed group from the start, a group of > people who pretty quickly saw beyond the distinction between > genders, but set out to fix the rough style of conduct that > cowboy-Debian used to be. I think we managed to teach a lot of > people to tone down (myself included!), and have made Debian a more > enjoyable place for many of us, including the men who hang out here > and elsewhere. I think the number of posts by women has increased > over the last five years, not by a whole lot and we still need to > become more supportive of everyone, but in my humble opinion, we're > on the right track. I don't have time to properly reply now, but I just wanted to make something clear, I am not complaining about Debian. With some exceptions, that are really marginal, I share your feelings in being proud of Debian being able to achieve a comfortable environment for both men and women. I don't think that it is Debian who is failing now. Really, I don't. Just to make it crystal clear: I think that Debian is doing really great. My suggestion shall not be interpreted at all as a criticism to Debian. Once that is said, I'm just wondering why we are not being able to get more women on board. I know that the main problem comes from outside Debian, and we just don't have control over the society in general. My fuzzy proposal wants to target that somehow. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: DW Mailing List: Would it be better if it was not archived?
2009/9/15 Ursula Junque : > Hi MIriam, Hi :) > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:47 AM, Miriam Ruiz wrote: > I wonder why would this be a problem. If you discuss technical stuff > (or are we talking about other stuff?), all lists everywhere are > archived so other people with similar interests can search on its > archives for other's problems, solutions or interesting related > discussions. At least myself, thinking about how discussed subjects > could be useful to others, never got intimidated thinking my messages > would be kept forever. But maybe I'm missing something here. :) I'm not sure if the goal of the mailing list at the moment should be discussing purely technical stuff. There are probably some other mailing lists more suitable for that (d-mentors, d-devel, or some others centered in certain technical aspects). I don't really know if there is still an entry barrier for female newcomers at the moment (I guess most of us who have been somehow involved in Free Software for some time have already developed a thicker skin, so I'm not sure if we're the best ones to evaluate that), but my perception is that once a woman or a girl decides to step into the project, it's not that hard to jump into the area they're more interested in. The most important entry barrier I see at the moment is to convince new women or girls to learn about the project and give it a chance. What I mean is that I'm not exactly sure if it makes sense to consider d-women mailing list as a technical list. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
DW Mailing List: Would it be better if it was not archived?
Hi, One of the reasons -among others- that new women don't write in the mailing list might be that the messages are being publicly archived and exposed forever, and that could be quite intimidating. Do you think it might help if the messages weren't archived? Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Thinking about organizing a special women-oriented event
2009/9/10 Lisi Reisz : > On Thursday 10 September 2009 17:34:14 Don Armstrong wrote: >> The reason why the comment appears to be sexist to at least a few of >> us[1] is because it attributes motives to an individual based purely >> on their perceived gender, and attempts to extrapolate from that to >> the motives of all individuals with that gender. > > That is not true and is offensive. I made no attempt to extrapolate to all > men. And the poster himself in a private email, and also on the list, said > that the motive I had in fact attributed to him - that he felt in some way > threatened - was correct, tho' I had got very wrong the way in which he felt > threatened. > > Are you in fact feeling threatened? And is that why you alone have to attack > so hard? Please, everyone, stop this flame. Some people have felt offended on each side, some didn't. Nothing positive can come out of keeping accusing each other. Lets everyone try to calm down and be a bit more empathic. Most, if not all, the people in this team have more things in common than whatever differences that might be, and we all share the same ultimate goal, so let's stop behaving, all of us, as if we were enemies. Greetings, Miry PS: Do not answer to this message either, help me stop this useless fight, let's just keep on working on improving things, not on criticizing each other. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Thinking about organizing a special women-oriented event
2009/9/10 Erinn Clark : > IMO those lists are probably sufficient for women-only mailing lists. I > don't think we need to fracture d-w, especially given its "recent" > amount of inactivity. That's probably the bad side of my proposal. Will this new mailing list lower or raise the activity level? > On the other hand, are there women reading this who are (still?) > uncomfortable with the climate of Debian? My feeling is that it's > improved since, oh, 2002, but I'm less involved than I used to be so I > can't get a good read on things. At some point I don't think that this has nothing to do with Debian exclusively, but with the way women are socialized and brought up, in fear and low self esteem in many ways. Unfortunately some women do need some encouragement before being able to talk assertively in a public mailing list. And participating in Debian lists, even this one, needs a certain level of self-esteem and assertivity. I was not accusing Debian of being hostile to women (not this time) but that shouldn't be the whole picture in my opinion. Such women-only lists are still needed, as they cover an existing gap. The question, as you say, might whether a new one mas to be created or it should be enough with the existing ones. None of them really promotes or encourages women to join Debian anyway, LinuxChix is probably a bit more biased towards some other distro, which I don't see bad at all, but maybe something could be done in Debian's benefit. The ultimate goal of DW is to be able to attract more women into Debian development, I'm just trying to figure out if this might be a step towards that. I understand your concerns, though. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Thinking about organizing a special women-oriented event
2009/9/10 Holger Levsen : > On Mittwoch, 26. August 2009, Steve Langasek wrote: >> It seems to me that this comment is sexist, and has no place on any Debian >> mailing list. > > It seemed and seems to me you were trolling here :-( I'm just thinking aloud, but I wonder if it might make sense to also have a women-only mailing list, so that women who otherwise wouldn't intervene can do it, kinda Systers or the Girls Only mailing list at LinuxChix. Dunno if there would be demand for that, but I have the feeling that something positive might come from it. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Good manners, Good tone and welfare of DD's, NM and prospective developers
2009/6/4 Dmitrijs Ledkovs : > I would love to see friendly, safe and respectful behavior towards > each other on mailing lists & other communication channel's within > debian. I don't know but maybe a code of conduct (e.g. [2]) is > something appropriate to be popularized in Debian? > > What are your thought on this topic? Am I talking non-sense or is > debian development "not children save"? Retaking this thread, even though it's quite old, having thought about it a bit and as a general question being thrown out there to the air, would it make sense to have some kind of entry point for minors who want to start developing stuff for Debian? Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Thinking about organizing a special women-oriented event
2009/8/25 Christian Perrier : > Quoting Jordi Gutiérrez Hermos (jord...@gmail.com): > >> I'm rambling... but I really hope I managed to offend a little less >> this time... and I hope I didn't make it worse. > > .../... > > You didn't. > > You did something that's very hard to do, particularly in a public > mailing list: you accepted the criticism from others, understood why > you were criticized and took valuable time (yours..) to explain *and* > apologize. > > For this, at least in my opinion, you deserve respect. And I mean it > even more because I was initially really offended by your remark and > very close to react quite offensively to it...:) I agree with Christian. For the next time, though, I think that the kind of explanation and reasons given in Jordi's latest mail are understandable and would have added value to the discussion if they had been expressed with those words from the beginning. Please, if at some point someone gets angry with anything that's said, try to delay the answer until your feelings have calmed down a bit, try to understand the other person's point of view and not take it as something personal, and if/when you decide to reply, try to explain your point of view in a structured way so that the rest of the people can understand your concerns (you made it OK in the last mail, Jordi), and, well, be polite and be helpful, as Linuxchix' motto says. I know from experience that nothing good comes out from writing when you're angry, I've bee there too (and, regrettably, I'll probably be in the future even if I try not to). Lets just learn our lesson and step forward, please. I don't personally have a strong opinion on letting guys come or not, both options have pros and cons and it probably depends on what results they want to achieve. I kind of think that Holger somehow has a point in what he said, though. Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Thinking about organizing a special women-oriented event
2009/8/25 :
> So Holger, I don't know if you are a man or a woman but your joke is just
> simply
> not funny and insulting for technical women.
I think that you have been mistaken. Holger was not the one that made
the joke, and in fact he did complain about it in a very serious way:
2009/8/25 Holger Levsen :
> Actually I dont think it's a joke, but (hope it is "just") a pointless, stupid
> comment, made without much thought. (I assume trying to be $whatever
> ("funny"?, dont care. Poor Caster (for being the object of so much crap).)
>
> Of course most women-only events are also open to those "few" who for whatever
> reason cannot fit into the binary men/women scheme.
In any case, it would be better to just go over it and continue the
discussion where we left it, now that the author has apologised.
Greetings,
Miry
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Re: Thinking about organizing a special women-oriented event
2009/8/25 Anne Ghisla :
> Il giorno mar, 25/08/2009 alle 16.20 +0200, Ana Guerrero ha scritto:
>> On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 01:52:21PM -0500, Jordi Gutiérrez Hermos wrote:
>> > 2009/8/24 Holger Levsen :
>> > > Why? It's not obvious to me. I think not having any men there would
>> > > attract
>> > > some women who would otherwise not joiin.
>> >
>> > So...
>> >
>> > Could Caster Semenya go to the event or not? ;-)
>> >
>>
>> I fail to see who is this funny or on-topic?
>> Keep such "jokes" out of here.
>
> my 2 cents: I agree with Ana. These jokes are hard to understand
> properly on written communication. So I can't get if it is just an
> innocent joke or, as it is so common among men who fear women raise of
> awareness (but can't understand why), a way to reduce importance of what
> women do and think by laughing at them.
It is by no means an innocent joke. I'll explain the context, for
those who are not familiar with it. Caster Semenya [1] is a South
African middle-distance runner who has been recently accused -at least
in Spanish Speaking media [2]- of "being too similar to a man". She
has been harshly and cruelly harassed and laughed at in different
media for having a high level of testosterone [3] (3 times more than
the average woman, 10 times less than the average man), up to a point
where the International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF)
had to conduct a gender verification test.
That joke, in my opinion, has different levels of evilness at once:
1) It is offtopic, childish and disruptive of the the topic thas was
being discussed ("Hey! I'm here! Pay me attention!"), to a point
where, as Anne says (but probably the writer is not doing consciously)
the whole matter being discussed is reduced in importance
2) It is cruel against a young woman (18 y.o.) who is being severely
attacked about her sexuality for "not being female enough", and who
has feelings that should be respected [4].
3) As Holger says, it takes out of the equation everyone who does not
clearly fit into one of the stereotypical male-female roles
4) It is not funny at all
Greetings,
Miry
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_Semenya
[2]
http://www.dosmanzanas.com/2009/08/borchornoso-tratamiento-de-algunos-medios-al-caso-de-caster-semenya-la-atleta-sudafricana-cuya-feminidad-se-ha-puesto-en-duda.html
[3]
http://tvnz.co.nz/othersports-news/revelations-ahead-gender-test-results-2942837
[4]
http://blogs.20minutos.es/salud_y_deporte/post/2009/08/23/aay-quao-pasa-con-sentimientos-caster-semenya-
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Re: Thinking about organizing a special women-oriented event
2009/8/24 Jordi Gutiérrez Hermos : > 2009/8/24 Holger Levsen : >> Why? It's not obvious to me. I think not having any men there would attract >> some women who would otherwise not joiin. > > So... > > Could Caster Semenya go to the event or not? ;-) I think those kind of jokes are out of place here Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Spanish Debian Women BoF at DebConf 9
Hi, We're arranging a meeting between Spanish-speaking women interested in a Spanish chapter of the Debian Women Project. We're gonna meet at 12:00 today (Sunday 26) in the BoF room. If you're interested, please come :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: new member presentation
2009/7/18 Alice Ferrazzi : > Hello, > I just thought it might be cool to introduce myself, > i'm Alice Ferrazzi from italy, Hi Alice! Welcome! :) Greetings, Miry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-women-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
