Re: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 4.3 - Commtouch trial ?
Sandy, I was not suggesting that anyone move to SpamAssassin, rather, that Declude should have looked at these other options and possibly consider building in support for these services into Declude (since they are open source solutions, source code and specifications are available), or at least considered them against the CommTouch solution. And by "convoluted", I should have been more clear, I was alluding to the revenue sharing model Declude it trying to introduce. It sounds like this requirement is being driven by CommTouch, and could have been avoided all together if they had gone with one or more of these open source options instead. Just as SA and other spam apps have built in support for these freely available and open source spam services, nothing would have prevented Declude from doing the same. Declude has stated that they will eventually be including support for URIBL checks within JunkMail. This has to be accomplished by reviewing open source specifications and then building support to the specs so that queries to the URIBL servers are delivered in the correct format and the returning responses can be correctly interpreted. Thus, no different then Declude looking at building in support to these various spam checksum services - send the query in the correct format, and properly interpret the returned response. Bill - Original Message - From: "Sanford Whiteman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Bill Landry" Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 12:42 PM Subject: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 4.3 - Commtouch trial ? I guess what I am getting at here is that there are lots of "free" choices/options/solutions available out there without having to resort to pricey and convoluted options like CommTouch. Bill, to be fair, DCC is plenty convoluted itself, if you follow the requirement to run your own DCC daemon when passing hosting-level traffic. Razor only became acceptable for hosting/reseller use extremely recently. And free use of Razor, i.e. using the razor-clients package instead of using a commercial Cloudmark product, either requires facility with *nix, or a full-fledged, non-spamd SpamAssassin fork (because I think there is no standalone razor-client package for Windows, though there is now a compiled SA binary that embeds a working Razor... but which has only a crippled/experimental Win32 spamd). Legally embedding or linking these products into a commercial engine such as Declude is next to impossible compared to using a product designed to be static-linked into commercial products. You probably know I already rely on SPAMC32/spamd for all content checks and I really enjoy having Razor and DCC in the mix (haven't dipped into iXHash yet, but I saw the announcement). But I think it's misleading to imply that CommTouch is convoluted in any technical way, compared to the learning curve of a Declude user going fully with SA. On the contrary: the reason this kind of commoditized, Windows-client distributed system is attractive is precisely _because_ getting dccd, razor-client, and so on working and performing well on Windows is very difficult. Same reason Sniffer is attractive: cross-platform, no dependencies or interpreters, etc. What _is_ convoluted and now-typically insulting is the introduction of an ambiguous, and certainly ominous-sounding, licensing system without feeling out the user base. I refer people to the fact that Declude is said to have made many "new hires" of late -- without once posting a job opening on a list composed of expert users of the product. And, um, the fact that Declude was for a time censoring (deleting without notice) posts to the list that even alluded to support failures, *and without later apology*, was a pretty big signal. But no one seemed to care about that but me (or perhaps everyone's agreement was similarly squelched, I guess). But now people are shocked, *shocked* that their input wasn't deemed valid on this latest dropped bomb. Gee, ya think? --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/download/release/ Defuse Dictionary Attacks: Turn Exchange or IMail mailboxes into IMail Aliases! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/exchange2aliases/download/release/ http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/ldap2aliases/download/release/ --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mai
RE: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 4.3 - Commtouch trial ?
Sandy, "Declude was for a time censoring (deleting without notice) posts to the list that even alluded to support failures" This is totally untrue and unsubstantiated. We have NEVER censored these lists. David B www.declude.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sanford Whiteman Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:43 PM To: Bill Landry Subject: Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 4.3 - Commtouch trial ? > I guess what I am getting at here is that there are lots of "free" > choices/options/solutions available out there without having to > resort to pricey and convoluted options like CommTouch. Bill, to be fair, DCC is plenty convoluted itself, if you follow the requirement to run your own DCC daemon when passing hosting-level traffic. Razor only became acceptable for hosting/reseller use extremely recently. And free use of Razor, i.e. using the razor-clients package instead of using a commercial Cloudmark product, either requires facility with *nix, or a full-fledged, non-spamd SpamAssassin fork (because I think there is no standalone razor-client package for Windows, though there is now a compiled SA binary that embeds a working Razor... but which has only a crippled/experimental Win32 spamd). Legally embedding or linking these products into a commercial engine such as Declude is next to impossible compared to using a product designed to be static-linked into commercial products. You probably know I already rely on SPAMC32/spamd for all content checks and I really enjoy having Razor and DCC in the mix (haven't dipped into iXHash yet, but I saw the announcement). But I think it's misleading to imply that CommTouch is convoluted in any technical way, compared to the learning curve of a Declude user going fully with SA. On the contrary: the reason this kind of commoditized, Windows-client distributed system is attractive is precisely _because_ getting dccd, razor-client, and so on working and performing well on Windows is very difficult. Same reason Sniffer is attractive: cross-platform, no dependencies or interpreters, etc. What _is_ convoluted and now-typically insulting is the introduction of an ambiguous, and certainly ominous-sounding, licensing system without feeling out the user base. I refer people to the fact that Declude is said to have made many "new hires" of late -- without once posting a job opening on a list composed of expert users of the product. And, um, the fact that Declude was for a time censoring (deleting without notice) posts to the list that even alluded to support failures, *and without later apology*, was a pretty big signal. But no one seemed to care about that but me (or perhaps everyone's agreement was similarly squelched, I guess). But now people are shocked, *shocked* that their input wasn't deemed valid on this latest dropped bomb. Gee, ya think? --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/download/release / Defuse Dictionary Attacks: Turn Exchange or IMail mailboxes into IMail Aliases! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/exchange2aliases/downloa d/release/ http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/ldap2aliases/download/re lease/ --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com. --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
Re[2]: [Declude.JunkMail] Declude 4.3 - Commtouch trial ?
> I guess what I am getting at here is that there are lots of "free" > choices/options/solutions available out there without having to > resort to pricey and convoluted options like CommTouch. Bill, to be fair, DCC is plenty convoluted itself, if you follow the requirement to run your own DCC daemon when passing hosting-level traffic. Razor only became acceptable for hosting/reseller use extremely recently. And free use of Razor, i.e. using the razor-clients package instead of using a commercial Cloudmark product, either requires facility with *nix, or a full-fledged, non-spamd SpamAssassin fork (because I think there is no standalone razor-client package for Windows, though there is now a compiled SA binary that embeds a working Razor... but which has only a crippled/experimental Win32 spamd). Legally embedding or linking these products into a commercial engine such as Declude is next to impossible compared to using a product designed to be static-linked into commercial products. You probably know I already rely on SPAMC32/spamd for all content checks and I really enjoy having Razor and DCC in the mix (haven't dipped into iXHash yet, but I saw the announcement). But I think it's misleading to imply that CommTouch is convoluted in any technical way, compared to the learning curve of a Declude user going fully with SA. On the contrary: the reason this kind of commoditized, Windows-client distributed system is attractive is precisely _because_ getting dccd, razor-client, and so on working and performing well on Windows is very difficult. Same reason Sniffer is attractive: cross-platform, no dependencies or interpreters, etc. What _is_ convoluted and now-typically insulting is the introduction of an ambiguous, and certainly ominous-sounding, licensing system without feeling out the user base. I refer people to the fact that Declude is said to have made many "new hires" of late -- without once posting a job opening on a list composed of expert users of the product. And, um, the fact that Declude was for a time censoring (deleting without notice) posts to the list that even alluded to support failures, *and without later apology*, was a pretty big signal. But no one seemed to care about that but me (or perhaps everyone's agreement was similarly squelched, I guess). But now people are shocked, *shocked* that their input wasn't deemed valid on this latest dropped bomb. Gee, ya think? --Sandy Sanford Whiteman, Chief Technologist Broadleaf Systems, a division of Cypress Integrated Systems, Inc. e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] SpamAssassin plugs into Declude! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/SPAMC32/download/release/ Defuse Dictionary Attacks: Turn Exchange or IMail mailboxes into IMail Aliases! http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/exchange2aliases/download/release/ http://www.imprimia.com/products/software/freeutils/ldap2aliases/download/release/ --- This E-mail came from the Declude.JunkMail mailing list. To unsubscribe, just send an E-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED], and type "unsubscribe Declude.JunkMail". The archives can be found at http://www.mail-archive.com.
