Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 09:09:44 +0200, Hillar Liiv liivhil...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi, I have made some mockup to show how different shadows look alike: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Docshadows.png Which looks best? Hi I definitely don't like the no blur shadows... I cannot tell which one from 4 borders or 2 borders looks best, I guess this is a matter of personal taste. One thing to take into account : if we use a large shadow and/or 4 borders shadow, we've to change to behavior of the zoom out to avoid shadow overlapping (when you zoom out to a little zoom level, pages are closer from each other than in zoom levels ~50%), so we either have to change pages spacing or shadow width when zooming out. Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker daniel.mer...@wayne.edu a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Fwd: [Bug 34896] [EasyHack] Color palette: number of columns
Hi Hillar, just a quick reply ... without that much thought ;-) Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 12:16 +0200 schrieb Hillar Liiv: Here is one bug report to change Color palette: number of columns everywhere constant (same number colums/row to make creating palettes easier). Which way to go? - change to 8x12 - change to 10x11 To ask another question: What problem will be solved with that change? In the first step, consistency is usually an improvement, so that our users are not forced to re-think when using an almost identical control element (color palette). But does it ease to create / provide color palettes? Color palettes are created for different purposes, e.g. because the company colors are A, B, and C. So - from the user's / company's perspective - these guys won't add additional colors to fill the palette because one of their tools (amongst others) works that way :-) So my first statement is, that there is a need to reconsider the color choosers anyway. Because: * We have additional vertical color selections (list with color names, e.g. when selecting a background color via toolbar) * Changing palettes / colors is currently a nightmare * ... Concerning your initial question - I would go for 8x12 if we don't cause scrollbars within the usual dialogs when a few additional colors are added. My rationale: In the old days of EGA graphics, there have been color pallets with 16 colors (or advanced: 64 colors). Even today, many of the color palettes start with these basic colors - so they get shown in two rows which makes them distinct in the dialog. Bug report is here: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34896 Thanks! Could you please take care to sum up the discussion (if there are any more thoughts on that) and add this to the issue? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice official color names
Hi Bernhard, all! Thanks for the answer - and really good thoughts :-) Am Freitag, den 04.03.2011, 23:37 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: Christoph Noack schrieb: Just some short comments on this issue as well, because I'd like to finally answer Andras question ... :-) Sorry for mixing up two different topics - but I found them related when thinking of official names... Well, sorry for appearing so picky, but I thought it would be helpful to go a first step. The other topic is important as well, of course. Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 04:10 +1100 schrieb Nik: [...] On 3/3/2011 9:33 AM, Christoph Noack wrote: Am Mittwoch, den 02.03.2011, 23:00 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: [...] Personally, I think we should start to collect such tiny logo issues in the wiki and update all in one rush - to save some effort. +1 Could somebody please take care of that? I'd do that, but then it gets added on the high pile of things to be done later ;-) [...] So how about the following logos... Basic/Plain (defines basic color and shape) * Derived contemporary -- LibreOffice preferred logo (highlighted on the branding page) * Derived grayscale (like today) * Derived black/white (like today) * Derived inverted (like today) I'd switch it: Main logo: present contemporary logo Derived plain colors logo (dark grey and green) Derived greyscale logo Derived black logo (today: black/white) Derived white logo (today: inverted) Derived green/black logo (today: basic) for special needs. Okay, that sounds fine to me ... to me it is still the contemporary logo (which should really get the name main) derived from the plain logo. But this may be a personal preference, so if it is kept - that's a great proposal! Nik, what do you think? [...] But we definitely should provide the spot colors of our color palette, so people know about the colors we want to be used on physical banners and the like. Yep, and it makes it easier to refer to them in our designs / motif. From my point-of-view, most of the confusion is created by those people who copy the logo from other locations in the web - and sometimes even modifying them. G. Did you already find examples on LibreOffice? (I remember really horrible ones from OOo) Something like that? http://ubuntuxx.de/wp-content/themes/ubuntuxx/timthumb.php?src=/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/timpthumb-libre.jpegh=120w=180zc=1 Best regards Bernhard PS: And if we agree on 80% Grey for our logo, I'd propose to give it a LibO name (LibreGrey 1) in our palette. I would even propose to name some of the others as well - to refer to them in our designs. How about some counterparts (similar hue) Grey 0 ... Grey 5? Okay, a short summary: * Renaming / restructuring of the logo names like you proposed * Adding names to some of the gray/grey shadings to be counterparts to the real colors * Switching the black in our plain logo version (and maybe others) to a dark gray/grey one Is this correct? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: LibreOffice official color names
Hi Bernhard, some quick notes on that as well :-) Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 00:28 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: Christoph Noack schrieb: Am Mittwoch, den 02.03.2011, 23:00 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: [...] But I'd prefer LibreGreen 1 over Libre Green 1, because without the space LibreGreen is a name, while in Libre Green libre can be understood as descriptive adjective. True, but removing the whitespace makes it less readable ... I don't think this is an important issue, as it should be a descriptive name rather than a color accompanied by a leading adjective and a following number. But I'm not an UX-expert, so I have to believe you that people will not be able to understand LibreGreen as easy as Libre Green. From the UX perspective, it would be most helpful to remove Libre and to provide some information in the UI of the product what kind of color scheme (here: LibreOffice Branding Colors) are used. http://luxate.blogspot.com/2010/10/united-colors-of-liberty.html Looking at these colors, I find out, that I like the previous color names better than the present ones: Orange is not really orange - Marron has been more exact. Yellow is not yellow at all - Ocher might be the right description. Personally, I think the more basic ones simpler to handle and to translate ... but this may only be me. To be consistent, we should use LibreGreen Accent instead of Green Accent - OpenGrok shows the latter. OpenGrok is okay, since I asked for that name when it got integrated ;-) But the other colors seems to have been integrated with Libre - did you do this on purpose? No, then it's an issue. It seems that we have to rework this palette ... thanks for making me aware of that. Since I mostly work with Inkscape at the moment, I didn't knew that. The Inkscape palette I use doesn't contain any Libre, so they are different. This is on purpose, since Inkscape provides quicker access to check what kind of palette the user works with. In LibreOffice (see also the others mails targeting the work with colors) it is much more problematic. But in future all the palettes (LibO, Inkscape, GIMP) will use the same naming... :-) And the more we talk about that, the more I come to the conclusion that a fairly simple palette (including the names) might be more appropriate. It seems that the comments (e.g. LibreOffice Main Color) are more important than the Libre. So, final proposal: For all of the palettes, the naming scheme will be... $BASICCOLOR $TYPE ($COMMENT) e.g. Green 1 (LibreOffice Main Color) e.g. Orange 5 e.g. Purple Accent This can be quickly changed in the spreadsheet that served for the color palette creation: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/7/70/2010-11-08_LibreOffice_Initial-Branding-Colors.zip And to not forget this - we have to add some comment in the .soc palette creation there. That time, I didn't knew how to do this ... And, the grey/gray values are missing at the moment. [...] I've been wondering, if we should add plain colors (red, green, blue, yellow, orange, violet) to the LibO palette too, because they might be used for marking etc. We don't have red at all... But on the other hand they don't fit with the LibreOffice colors, so I'd avoid such a mixture. What do you think? If we call it branding palette, then I second the latter opinion to keep it clean. At lest, we have a fabulous orange accent for highlighting things ;-) I'll add the source code at the end of the mail - for easier reference. [...] I don't know if a break is allowed in an .soc file, if so, I'd add one behind the first entry: This would lead to better readability, as every definition is shown in it's own line. No, I'm not aware about such possibility. The color palettes are just a list of items - without any further structure. That makes it so hard to define more helpful ones ... so here we need some improvements in LibreOffice first. [...] While the default UI language is English (USA) the standard color palette as well as your proposal use the British English spelling Gray instead of Grey. Oh, good point! Finally, it seems that there are some simpler things (like renaming the gray shadings), removing the Libre in front of the colors, ... that should be sufficient for answering Andras questions and to improve the color palette in LibreOffice. The more time consuming things (e.g. defining the gray values) may be done later - if we miss some help at the moment. Okay? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?
Hi Christoph, I attached a here.png file to show the a circle with two birds. Thanks, Minhsien0330 2011/3/5 Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com Hi Minhsien0330 (???), at least my system [1] features the Document Symbol for the Quickstarter. Can you provide some more information, please? Cheers, Christoph [1] LibreOffice 3.3.1, OOO330m19 (Build:8) tag libreoffice-3.3.1.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.1-1ubuntu3~lucid2 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?
Hi Christoph, I uploaded a here.png file to show the a circle with two birds. https://sites.google.com/site/minhsien0330/test/here.png Thanks, Minhsien0330 2011/3/5 Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com Hi Minhsien0330 (???), at least my system [1] features the Document Symbol for the Quickstarter. Can you provide some more information, please? Cheers, Christoph [1] LibreOffice 3.3.1, OOO330m19 (Build:8) tag libreoffice-3.3.1.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.1-1ubuntu3~lucid2 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Fwd: Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft
Whoops, forgot to reply to Design-list instead of just to Jaron... Original Message Subject:Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Re: [libreoffice-design] Motif draft Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2011 17:32:13 +1100 From: Nik n...@tdf.nikashsingh.com To: Jaron Kuppers jaronba...@gmail.com Hi Jaron, On 3/5/2011 6:37 AM, Jaron Kuppers wrote: Hi Nik, I would love to be involved but unfortunately I still feel that I don't fully understand what is desired in the motif (what is the end deliverable). Of course, design is not my main background (mechanical engineering is) so hopefully once design proposals go up I can contribute. I look forward to seeing motif's! Cheers, Jaron Sorry if I've been unclear about what the Motif-Design task entails. I think I've done a better job explaining it on the wiki (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Motif) than I have on this list. So if anyone else was also wondering what a Motif is, it's basically a decorative visual element, usually quite abstract (curves, patterns, colour-combinations, shapes, textures, or a combination of all). It usually gets used as subtle background elements in a Design composition, or as recurring content-separators. This is what Wikipedia thinks it is; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motif_%28visual_arts%29 More to the point, here is what a leading branding agency made when decorating a plane; http://landor.com/index.cfm?do=ourwork.casehistorycn=6147source=enewsutm_source=mailerutm_medium=emailutm_content=wv1utm_campaign=SuperBowl2011bhcp=1 (The ribbon that spans the plane is their motif, a very sophisticated way of saying smooth ride don't you think? =) Essentially what we're aiming for is to create a pleasant vector graphic that is so subtle that it can occupy empty space in an elegant way. *Sometimes it will be directly behind text so it needs to be low-contrast and low on noise (not very intricate or busy).* You have probably seen vector-flowers or inward-curling leaf/vine shapes. Here is a typical example; http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/8603944/2/istockphoto_8603944-decorative-swirl-motifs.jpg While flowers are nice, they don't say very much about Open source software right? =) So our goal is to come up with a theme, such as freedom, collaboration, or independence and create an abstract representation of that, which we can use as a basis for ... well ... everything!; posters, banners, web-pages, business cards, CDs/DVDs, your slow-moving grandma, whatever really! =) It is hard to create visual representations of intangible concepts, but that is our challenge. I'll collect and summarise the feedback from the brainstorming phase tomorrow and present it to this list. So if you want to add your two cents, feel free to dive in any time. Hope that makes it a smidgeon more clear for everyone who wasn't too sure what I was jabbering on about. And thanks for bravely piping-up and letting me know I hadn't defined the task to a wider audience Jaron! Right now we need ideas, and once we've gathered some good ones up, we can start sketching. By the way, if you're looking for a simply AWESOME implementation of a logo-brand turned into a motif (and everything else), look no further than Duffy Partner's Bahamas campaign; http://sublimedesign.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/1273.jpg Hope that clarifies and inspires =) -Nik -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
On 05/03/11 11:44, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker daniel.mer...@wayne.edu a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien I like the suggestion of changing the background colour with application (i.e. blue for writer) and having that with the 'four border' shadow. Like this - http://ubuntuone.com/p/gEg/ -- Andrew -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Issue created fdo#35046 (was: Re: [libreoffice-design] Replace the quickstarter icon (Linux system tray icon) ?)
Hi again, okay - it seems that the system choses the wrong icon if the Tango icon style is used. For Galaxy (pre-selected on my system) it works just fine. I've created an issue for that: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35046 Thanks for reporting :-) Cheers, Christoph Am Samstag, den 05.03.2011, 21:37 +0800 schrieb minhsien0330: Hi Christoph, I uploaded a here.png file to show the a circle with two birds. https://sites.google.com/site/minhsien0330/test/here.png Thanks, Minhsien0330 2011/3/5 Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com Hi Minhsien0330 (???), at least my system [1] features the Document Symbol for the Quickstarter. Can you provide some more information, please? Cheers, Christoph [1] LibreOffice 3.3.1, OOO330m19 (Build:8) tag libreoffice-3.3.1.2, Ubuntu package 1:3.3.1-1ubuntu3~lucid2 -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] ligatures in the logo
I tried to edit the wiki on my phone, but it just wasn't working out. Anyway... My vote: Right. I'm not crazy about the extended f crossbar or the right-angle shape the crossbar makes with the i. I appreciate the effort and hope this isn't the end of this conversation. The logo should change as the project does. I'm just not convinced this idea is ready for use quite yet. On Mar 4, 2011 12:52 PM, Johannes Bausch johannes.bau...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, okay, I've tried to set up a voting page for us, see here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey/Ligatures http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Joey/LigaturesDo you all have write access to this page? I am not that experienced with wikis. @Bernhard: I've shifted the i more to the left. I've also redone the visual kerning for some of the letters; have a look at the scaled-down versions, it should look more even now. @all: It would be great if you voted on the wiki or here on the mailing list. Even if you disapprove of this poll it would be great to get some more opinions on this; so far it's only five people who talk about it. Thanks, Joey PS: I'll be away until Wednesday next week. 2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at Hi Joey, all, replying to both of your mails, so please scroll down until the end... Johannes Bausch schrieb: Hey, to gather some more opinions I thought it would be a good idea to have a poll somewhere else, so I asked people in a forum to cast their vote. Although I don't know whether this was a good idea (not really representative, game design forum, so people might be programmers) I thought you might be interested in the results: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Poll.png It's impossible to see the different alternatives, because at my computer the background is nearly black. Ii updated the image with a slightly lighter grey background, so you can see the different alternatives, but keep the white text of the poll results. Apparently noone likes the too fancy ligatures. Most people also complained about the logo in general, so I tried to explain why this is (and remains, for now) the logo of LibO. If you're interested in the comments, too, I'll send you the link. So... in the next days I'll make some final drafts and put up a voting page. If you have some final ideas please tell me. People seem to like the last alternative (with f bow bent towards the i dot) as much as the original. Even if this is far from being representative, I'd like to see a finalized version of this proposal. Could you improve this by moving the i nearer to the f? I don't think that equal spacing for the dot between f and i looks best... Perhaps a combination of your third an my proposal? Greetings, Joey 2011/3/2 Johannes Bauschjohannes.bau...@gmail.com Hey Bernhard, 2011/3/2 Bernhard Dippoldbernh...@familie-dippold.at In your reply to my last mail I understood you in a way that you wanted to work on a new proposal. I added a third alternative (which I don't like very much). The logos on my page are only drafts; if we decide on one of them, I'll spend more time on it. At the moment I don't have another idea how to deal with the ligature - do you? I'd be more than glad to try another one. Like your poll members I like this proposal best, but it needs some more tweaking (I mentioned above). I don't think that there are so many alternatives to modify the two f and the i, so I don't have any other reliable alternative in mind. [...] But what we need to keep in mind: Changes being recognized by the average user / viewer will more likely be postponed until a new major or minor version than modifications leading only to a more balanced, professional and consistent visual impression. +1, I agree. In my eyes proposals (c) and (d) might fall in the balanced category, while (a) and (b) would be more recognizable as modified details. Who has the final word on that? The SC, but they probably support a decision by the Design Team. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
