Re: [libreoffice-design] Controversial topics for the start center
Hi Michel, 2013/11/26 mfrai...@free.fr Why I get impression that this Start Center is one step ahead and two steps back? True In my opinion: + there should be Open and Templates icons. Without them, options are invisible (dead zone for eyes) + there should be Location address bar. + every thumbnail should has gray background only if mouse cursor is over document + user should can manage single document and whole list as well. + tabs are really nice feature if user works with many documents And last but not least. I remove new prefix because other language than English are not so simple and this short word will looks obscure e.g. in Polish. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/e/e4/4.2_start_center.png In my opinon (after this picture) Tabs are redundant, they share their manes with the labels on the side bar why not 1 click on the name to get the filtered list 1 click on the icon to get a new … whatever or 1 click on the side bar item to get the filtered list 1 next click to get a new doc of the selected item, assuming you don't move the mouse because there is nothing to be found. I'm not sure that would be discoverable. It's also better practice to have one button serve one function -- it's less confusing. If It can help … Michel -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] RE: Controversial topics for the start center
Folks, The LibreOffice Start Center has made the 4.2.0.0 beta cut, and has been implemented in the current beta1. Little argument that it still requires additional design UX-advise input for final 4.2.0 release form. At the Design team IRC meeting last Sunday, Laurent L. and Miroslav (Mirek2) agreed for a need to take additional design input from the community -- Pro Con format using the Design Whitebaord for the Start Center. Laurent got it started, and I've expanded it to now be as comprehensive of all prior work on the Start Center as possible. https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center Please review the various meeting minuets, mail-list discussions and other resources posted to the wiki. Astron, Mirek2 , Laurent, Emir, Mateusz and many others have contributed greatly. But as this design process needs to be finalized, at this point we need all well-argued inputs as to changes still to the existing LODev 4.2.0.0beta1+ implementation consolidated into the Pro - Con comments on the Wiki for discussion at this Sunday's IRC Design meeting: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Meetings Regards, Stuart -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Start Center Niggles
Hi guys, The Start Center is a hot topic right now, I thought I'd chime in with my few cents. Kendy, sorry for asking you to do more work, I know you're busy. If you decide to just keep the center as is for now, that's fine. Also, sorry if I made it seem like Astron's mockup was a final draft: we settled on some basics during the chat, from which Astron constructed the mockup, but there's still minor details to settle on. Lastly, don't be discouraged by the volume. Most of the suggestions are simple tweaks. So, without further ado: In terms of layout and sizing: * In general, I'd imagine it more like http://ubuntuone.com/0bhbyPRVt8hChFsZ64HBfO . (I hope it's okay I based that on your mockup, Astron.) That means: * No gray margin around the main area (the sidebar + document area). * Smaller text (18px for the top buttons, 16px for the buttons under Create) * More breathing room for the buttons in the sidebar -- see attached mockup for specific sizes. * The Create label should be closer to the line under it and farther from the Template button, to clearly show the relationship it has to the buttons. In terms of general appearance: * The Create label should be clearly set apart from clickable buttons. I suggest making it uppercase and bold. * The line below Create should be white. * I'd suggest making the background of the recent document area less bright (it can be a bit hard on the eyes, especially compared to the current Start Center): #f9f9f9 would do, though Gnome uses #f1f2f1. Take your pick. In terms of the appearance of recents, I'd like to follow Gnome [1] here, meaning: * The thumbnail area should be square [2] and much bigger. I'd suggest around 180x180 with a 15px margin on all sides (so 30 px between consecutive thumbnails). * Icons (when there's no thumbnail) should appear without a border. * Filenames should be allowed to span 2 rows and should show both the end and the beginning of the name, with the eventual ellipsis in the middle. * Filenames should show file extension. (In my experience, people sometimes edit a file as ODF, export it as a DOCX for sharing, but keep editing as ODF for full compatibility. In the current SC, there'd be no way to tell the two apart.) If we must hide the extension, a) let's hide it for ODF docs only, or b) let's design badges for non-ODF filetypes (would require a willing volunteer). * Tooltips should be shown over the thumbnail label, not where the cursor is. They should show the full path of the document. (Right now, they're not very useful.) * There should be some indication that the thumbnails activate on single click. In Nautilus (in single-click mode), thumbnails light up on hover and the cursor changes to a pointer -- let's do that. Also: * Double(+)-clicking a thumbnail should open it only once. * Clear list should appear either in the document area or in the File menu directly (where it should be relabeled Clear recent documents). Clicking it should clear out the thumbnails right away. * The window sometimes flickers when it's resized, though it's not as much of an issue as it used to be with the tabbed version. * As the others, I'd prefer a different welcome message. I'll post about it in the Welcome message thread. All of this said, I love the work so far, and I'm excited by the direction LibreOffice is taking. Thanks, Kendy! [1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/Apps/Documents [2] http://ubuntuone.com/0mqVtlqmcqUpoVkGXbmh10 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] IRC Chat
Hi guys, Though it wasn't the intent, it feels like I've become the de facto moderator of IRC chats. Given that I can't always attend, I'd really like it if the chat didn't depend on me. So: * If you're at the chat, please don't wait for me to come to start a discussion. * As for topics to discuss, how about we start a thread on the mailing list after every chat collecting topics for the next chat? The person who posts the log can start the thread. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] IRC Chat 2013-12-01
Topics for the chat: * Controversial problems in the Start Center [1] If there's nothing else to talk about: * Categorize Writer, Calc, Impress, Draw, and Math Options. (We should really get going on these.) [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Start_Center [2] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Whiteboards/Options -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Report UX Bugs!
Hi guys, The upcoming UX Hackfest [1] will be a unique opportunity to get UX bugs fixed, so please report all the UX bugs you can find. The guidelines for how to do that are on https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design . Please give feedback on those (in this thread) -- they're a first version. P.S. I'll wait ~ a week and then post this to Diaspora/Google+. I'd just like to get some feedback on the bug reporting guidelines first, before I encourage a wider audience to file bugs. [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Hackfest/FOSDEM2014 -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding Mittaphap / Droid Sans / Khmer OS Fonts to LibreOffice for Lao, Thai, and Khmer Support
Hi Robert, We discussed fonts not too long ago [1]. We decided against Droid Sans, as it doesn't offer an Italic variant. I don't think we could offer Khmer, as the MPL, which LibreOffice is licensed under, is more permissive than the LGPL. I'm not sure, though. As for Mittaphap, I haven't heard of it. Could you describe it a bit more, similar to the way fonts are described at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wishlists/Fonts? Is it a good font typographically? I'm thinking we should bundle Noto Sans [2] and Noto Serif [3], though, as those have the goal of covering all of Unicode. Thoughts? [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wishlists/Fonts [2] https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Noto+Sans [3] https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Noto+Serif 2013/11/25 Robert M Campbell robert.rcampb...@gmail.com Is it possible to include the following fonts to LibreOffice? These fonts will help 3 SEA languages have built-in support. Thai language Droid Sans - Apache v2 license https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Droid+Sans Khmer language Khmer OS - LGPL license http://sourceforge.net/projects/khmer/files/Fonts%20-%20KhmerOS/KhmerOS%20Fonts%204.0-%20LGPL%20License/ Lao language Mittaphap - SIL OFL license http://hg.palaso.org/font-lao2/file/d0764b11848f https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=89727 (Mittaphap generated font) https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=89728 (Mittaphap Book generated font) -- Respectfully, *Robert M Campbell* IT Specialist for ADRA Laos Open Source Advocate Lao Cell: +856 207 616 7299 US Phone: +1 270 681 0399 robert.rcampb...@gmail.com rcampb...@adralaos.org Visit ADRA Lao's Facebook Page at facebook.com/ADRALaos www.facebook.com/ADRALaos -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Start Center Niggles
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: * The Create label should be clearly set apart from clickable buttons. I suggest making it uppercase and bold. I disagree with this one. I hate SCREAMING in UIs (and exclamation marks as well, BTW). We shouldn’t follow Office/Visual Studio 2013 on making any labels hard to read with uppercase letters. Bold will do fine, no need for “CREATE”. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Start Center Niggles
2013/11/27 Adolfo Jayme Barrientos f...@libreoffice.org On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 2:23 PM, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: * The Create label should be clearly set apart from clickable buttons. I suggest making it uppercase and bold. I disagree with this one. I hate SCREAMING in UIs (and exclamation marks as well, BTW). We shouldn’t follow Office/Visual Studio 2013 on making any labels hard to read with uppercase letters. Bold will do fine, no need for “CREATE”. I hate screaming in UIs as well, but I disagree all-caps always reads as screaming. See http://www.essentialmac.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Mac-OS-X-Lion-Finder.jpgfor example. Do the headers in the sidebar scream, in your opinion? In any case, I'm fine with keeping it simply capitalized. :) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Start Center Niggles
On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Mirek M. maz...@gmail.com wrote: See http://www.essentialmac.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Mac-OS-X-Lion-Finder.jpg for example. Do the headers in the sidebar scream, in your opinion? IMHO it’s unnecessary highlighting. I mean, when giving instructions you’d say “… go to the section ‘DEVICES’ and pick a location”. A user could interpret the all-caps as “don’t be dumb and look at the right section”. ;-) Also, the indentation helps to distingish the labels from the other items. Regards -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding Mittaphap / Droid Sans / Khmer OS Fonts to LibreOffice for Lao, Thai, and Khmer Support
On 11/28/2013 04:39 AM, Mirek M. wrote: Hi Robert, We discussed fonts not too long ago [1]. We decided against Droid Sans, as it doesn't offer an Italic variant. I don't think we could offer Khmer, as the MPL, which LibreOffice is licensed under, is more permissive than the LGPL. I'm not sure, though. As for Mittaphap, I haven't heard of it. Could you describe it a bit more, similar to the way fonts are described at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wishlists/Fonts? Is it a good font typographically? I'm thinking we should bundle Noto Sans [2] and Noto Serif [3], though, as those have the goal of covering all of Unicode. Thoughts? [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wishlists/Fonts [2] https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Noto+Sans [3] https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Noto+Serif Thanks for the info on this! As for Droid Sans, makes sense. Italics is pretty important. As for Khmer, there may be another option around (good open fonts in SE Asia are hard to find at times). I think SIL has a Khmer font. Or, maybe Noto has coverage? Also, what licenses do work for LibreOffice? Mittaphap is a derivative of the Dhyana Lao font on Google's WebFont Early Access. It's built with graphite in mind, and is being developed by Jim Brase of SIL. Its OFL licensed (though the font doesn't make this very clear currently). I have helped connect Jim Brase with others to do field testing. It's one of a few Lao OFL fonts out there, and it seems like it's quality. I am not Lao, so I am not authoritative, but all of the Lao people I have talked to, including those who have used the Dhyana / Mittaphap fonts I've included on laosabbathschool.com seem to think it's good. Phetsarath OT is another Lao font and it is designed by the Lao government (it's the font that they are pushing to be the standard for Laos). The licensing, however, is not as clear (at least to me), and I don't think it has graphite support. It's OFL, I think? It may work just as well or better. I know the contacts for that project if that is the prefered route. Pethsarath OT has a decent adoption (and it's the Lao governemnt's standard). I just don't think it supports graphite. I want to make it clear - I really don't care about what font is used. It needs to be good and needs to be small if the team decides to go that route, no need for bloat or for junk. And maybe the Design team prefers not including any laguage fonts for Thai, Khmer, and Lao, and I am ok with that too, if that is deemed best. Also, if need be, I can try to design the Lao font myself (something I've been threatening myself with for a while). I have books on typography, and some expereince with FontForge. I could even work on including the glyphs into Noto fonts if that is best (though I would be curious if they use graphite, or similar). I just figure if there is already a font out there that can be used, there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Lao is hard to get 'right' as there are various issues that have to be taken into account. I hope my focused approach and proactiveness doesn't seem pushy. Both LibreOffice and Lao are important to me - I work with them every day on a tehnical level. I know once LibreOffice 4.2 releases, it could potentially obtain a large Lao adoption (since Lao word breaks work natively now). Providing fonts for Thai and Khmer may help people of those languages (which are similar to Lao) adopt LibreOffice as well. This could cut down on piracy and also improve technology access for these people, which is why I've been looking into it for LibreOffice. I'm very new to the community, so plese forgive me for my newbieness. I hope to be able to provide more help to develop LibreOffice as opprotunity provides... -Robert -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Adding Mittaphap / Droid Sans / Khmer OS Fonts to LibreOffice for Lao, Thai, and Khmer Support
On 11/28/2013 04:39 AM, Mirek M. wrote: Hi Robert, We discussed fonts not too long ago [1]. We decided against Droid Sans, as it doesn't offer an Italic variant. I don't think we could offer Khmer, as the MPL, which LibreOffice is licensed under, is more permissive than the LGPL. I'm not sure, though. As for Mittaphap, I haven't heard of it. Could you describe it a bit more, similar to the way fonts are described at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wishlists/Fonts? Is it a good font typographically? I'm thinking we should bundle Noto Sans [2] and Noto Serif [3], though, as those have the goal of covering all of Unicode. Thoughts? [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Wishlists/Fonts [2] https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Noto+Sans [3] https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Noto+Serif 2013/11/25 Robert M Campbell robert.rcampb...@gmail.com mailto:robert.rcampb...@gmail.com Is it possible to include the following fonts to LibreOffice? These fonts will help 3 SEA languages have built-in support. Thai language Droid Sans - Apache v2 license https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Droid+Sans Khmer language Khmer OS - LGPL license http://sourceforge.net/projects/khmer/files/Fonts%20-%20KhmerOS/KhmerOS%20Fonts%204.0-%20LGPL%20License/ Lao language Mittaphap - SIL OFL license http://hg.palaso.org/font-lao2/file/d0764b11848f https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=89727 (Mittaphap generated font) https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=89728 (Mittaphap Book generated font) -- Respectfully, *Robert M Campbell* IT Specialist for ADRA Laos Open Source Advocate Lao Cell: +856 207 616 7299 tel:%2B856%20207%20616%207299 US Phone: +1 270 681 0399 tel:%2B1%20270%20681%200399 robert.rcampb...@gmail.com mailto:robert.rcampb...@gmail.com rcampb...@adralaos.org mailto:rcampb...@adralaos.org Visit ADRA Lao's Facebook Page at facebook.com/ADRALaos http://facebook.com/ADRALaos www.facebook.com/ADRALaos http://www.facebook.com/ADRALaos -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org mailto:design%2bunsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted Just looked at the source of Noto, and that reccomendation has some potential - they reportedly cover Lao, Thai, and Khmer. I'll test the font and see if I can get some langauge eperts to looks at it and see if it meets the needs... -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
