Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hi all, Sorry for top-posting. I am on the phone. Anyway, just want to pick out a single from all your points: the single quote correction. The reason why it's off by default is because it is not clever enough to tell when an apostrophe (as in Rock 'n' roll, in the worst case with exactly that spelling) or an actual quote is meant, as the key pressed in either case is the same. The compromise then of course is that we get neither typographically correct... which seems to lead lots of people to misappropriate accents for apostrophes. Astron. On 09.02.14 09:34 Jean-Francois Nifenecker wrote: Hello Tom, Le 08/02/2014 21:59, Tom Davies a écrit : However, I'm a bit confused by the No Stylist, no Navigator, missing settings.. Do you mean those things are not open by default? They seem to be there for me after doing an install but just not open and ready to use. In my FR installs the Stylist and the Navigator are installed but not displayed. I know very few users who actually know these tools exist and what they are meant for, not telling about displaying or using them :( As for the default settings, I have been wondering since the very first times of OOo 1.1.1 why the French apostrophe is not setup (the setting is available) while the French quote is. As a consequence most French users use the wrong character and create faulty documents. The automatic setting would be s easy to add... Other lacking settings: display non-printing chars, activate the backup copy, prefer the richer LibO dialogs, adjust zoom settings. In Writer: add an Insert from file toolbutton, set the Table toolbar position non-floating. In Draw: add a Fontwork toolbutton (the Fontwork toolbar can't do what this button does; or did I miss smthg?) Optionally, some extensions can really help, like AltSearch. I'm not sure if someone from documentation is also working on the types of things you are writing. Even if they are there is a good chance they have stalled and might appreciate someone else taking over what they have done so far and that might help give you some other ideas or confirm some of the ones you had already. Well, what I'm writing is about FR installs, though some common denominator could be found between languages (Stylist and Navigator come to mind). -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hellon Astron, Le 10/02/2014 18:44, heinzless...@gmail.com a écrit : Anyway, just want to pick out a single from all your points: the single quote correction. The reason why it's off by default is because it is not clever enough to tell when an apostrophe (as in Rock 'n' roll, in the worst case with exactly that spelling) or an actual quote is meant, as the key pressed in either case is the same. The compromise then of course is that we get neither typographically correct... which seems to lead lots of people to misappropriate accents for apostrophes. Well, if I understand correctly, it seems better to not set a typographic must-have for a very common character because of a few border-line cases? The same could be told about the French double-quotes which *are* correctly setup and rendered but can bring some problems when one wants actual (angle second) marks. Sorry, I don't understand that reasoning. /o\ -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-design] Re: Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
I agree with Jean-François. It is closely relatyed to my post on december 17: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Improving-LO-default-options-tp4088553.html It is a problem that must be addressed: LO is different AND you must show it to use it correctly. Otherwise it'll be assimilated to a poor third party clone of the monopolistic suite. -- As for the apostrophe problem, may I suggest this very interesting document (in french): http://jacques-andre.fr/japublis/Apostrophe-graphe39.pdf http://jacques-andre.fr/japublis/Apostrophe-graphe39.pdf . It is true that in french the apostrophe sign is a curly apostrophe, but word processor and presentation software use the correct apostrophe while spreadsheet and database use the usual right apostrophe ( ' ). You have to be consequent in a document and stick to only one type of apostrophe throughout the entire document. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Who-on-Earth-is-the-LibO-installation-target-tp4096212p4096500.html Sent from the Design mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hi Jean-Francois, On 10 February 2014 19:42, Jean-Francois Nifenecker jean-francois.nifenec...@laposte.net wrote: Well, if I understand correctly, it seems better to not set a typographic must-have for a very common character because of a few border-line cases? I think your look at this problem is very much informed by your being French and by your own professional perspective. My mother tongue, German, for instance uses far fewer apostrophes, especially in formal writing, as apostrophes most often appear in informal contractions (geht's = does it go, hast's = have you got it, ...). I would suppose that my apostrophe-to-single-quote ratio in all my German writing is around three to one. In academic writing especially, with its rigid quoting requirements the ratio in German (and maybe even in English) will actually tip in favour of the single quotes. Similarly, Angloamerican publishers of fiction very often use single quotes in place of all regular quotes. (Of course, they do have the advantage that their closing typographic quote mark looks the same as an apostrophe, I think.) The same could be told about the French double-quotes which *are* correctly setup and rendered but can bring some problems when one wants actual (angle second) marks. Well, sorry to tell you, but straight quotes aren't actually good for much. They are at least not the correct character to use for angle seconds [1] or inches. Astron. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minute_of_arc#Symbols_and_abbreviations -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Hello Astron, Le 10/02/2014 23:23, Stefan Knorr a écrit : I think your look at this problem is very much informed by your being French and by your own professional perspective. My mother tongue, German, for instance uses far fewer apostrophes, especially in formal writing, as apostrophes most often appear in informal contractions (geht's = does it go, hast's = have you got it, ...). I would suppose that my apostrophe-to-single-quote ratio in all my German writing is around three to one. In academic writing especially, with its rigid quoting requirements the ratio in German (and maybe even in English) will actually tip in favour of the single quotes. Similarly, Angloamerican publishers of fiction very often use single quotes in place of all regular quotes. (Of course, they do have the advantage that their closing typographic quote mark looks the same as an apostrophe, I think.) I can't give actual numbers for French but a hard guess would be around 100 to 1. The apostrophe comes everytime the article Le (mascusline) or La (feminine) is placed in front of a noun or adjective that starts with a vowel. And there are plenty of these ;) Well, sorry to tell you, but straight quotes aren't actually good for much. They are at least not the correct character to use for angle seconds [1] or inches. Yes, you're right. But this is the current use FR writers find to that character. Of course, the Insert Special chars menu option is there for that. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [libreoffice-marketing] Who on Earth is the LibO installation target?
Le 11/02/2014 07:42, Jean-Francois Nifenecker a écrit : I can't give actual numbers for French but a hard guess would be around 100 to 1. The apostrophe comes everytime the article Le (mascusline) or La (feminine) is placed in front of a noun or adjective that starts with a vowel. And there are plenty of these ;) There are also all occurences of qui and que that become qu' for the same vowel reason stated above. eg: Le logiciel qu'il utilise (the software he uses) Of course there are some other situation where the apostrophe is used but the two above are the most frequent. -- Jean-Francois Nifenecker, Bordeaux -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
