Re: [libreoffice-design] Notebookbar out of Experimental
Le 06/11/2018 à 08:43, kainz.a a écrit : I talked at Munich Hackfest about the big open bugs - bad keyboard navigation you can use F6 like in every other LibO app (F6 switch from Menubar to Toolbar to NB to Sidebar), but it would be awesome if svtlo-ManagedMenuButton will support keyboard shortcut focus if menubar is hidden and also sfxlo-NotebookbarToolBox widgets which was used to add the different uno commands didn't work with F6 -> tab I hope to get some patches to fix this issue, you are welcome to help. From my personal point of view of visual-impaired user that mainly uses keyboard if Notebookbar doesn't became the default layout on LibreOffice it's not an issue for me to see them outside of experimental. Indeed, the keyboard navigation issues should be fixed and reported if it's not the case. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll have the time to deal with them. As I know V Stuart has looked and follow LibreOffice Notebookbar and accessibility issues. Thanks all for the involvement to make LibreOffice a better software everyday. Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design meeting 2018-Jun-05
Le 05/06/2018 à 23:59, Cor Nouws a écrit : + Escape to close the floating widget?> ... + Heiko, Pedro -1, Alex, Cor +1> (in case of a tie we keep the status quo which and dont accept escape) The status quo should be to keep escape and alt+F4. As I can see I can use both on floating windows I've tested (navigator and style and formatting from side) Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Guideline for floating widgets
See the section uses of Escape on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esc_key#Uses See also this explanation : https://techterms.com/definition/escape_key See also this: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/keyboard-shortcuts-in-outlook-on-the-web-63df572e-1078-4562-b45e-b93e07a76ffb (search for "Press the Esc key to close any open form or dialog box.") Best regards, Alex. Le 05/06/2018 à 11:28, Heiko Tietze a écrit : The floating widget is like a toolwindow, similar to compose a message. And I'm very happy that an accidental press of escape doesn't close this dialog (using Thunderbird as well). Resizability is permitted for dialogs in LibreOffice, though I dont find the guideline anymore (wait, it was a discussion on the mailing list [1]), in order to keep the content at place. [1] http://document-foundation-mail-archive.969070.n3.nabble.com/Resizability-of-the-dialogs-tc4131982.html maybe other messages too On 05.06.2018 10:58, Alex ARNAUD wrote: First of all, thanks for sharing the guidelines Heiko. I'm pretty agree about all except for the usage of escape. When I teach computer, I always explain that escape is used inside the window to close floating window, menu and dialog. For example, on Thunderbird, escape could close a message window or on LibreOffice 6.0 when I open the save dialog, I could close it with escape. IMO, we should let floating windows resizable. I don't understand what is the problem. Best regards, Alex. Le 05/06/2018 à 09:14, Heiko Tietze a écrit : Based on https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87239 I drafted a guideline for floating widgets at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Selection#Appearance. Your review and opinion is welcome. Cheers, Heiko -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Guideline for floating widgets
First of all, thanks for sharing the guidelines Heiko. I'm pretty agree about all except for the usage of escape. When I teach computer, I always explain that escape is used inside the window to close floating window, menu and dialog. For example, on Thunderbird, escape could close a message window or on LibreOffice 6.0 when I open the save dialog, I could close it with escape. IMO, we should let floating windows resizable. I don't understand what is the problem. Best regards, Alex. Le 05/06/2018 à 09:14, Heiko Tietze a écrit : Based on https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87239 I drafted a guideline for floating widgets at https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Selection#Appearance. Your review and opinion is welcome. Cheers, Heiko -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the design meeting 2018-May-30
Le 31/05/2018 à 11:08, Heiko Tietze a écrit : On 31.05.2018 10:58, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote: * Gridlines on zoom +https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=117348 + different color (dark grey) (Pedro) + available as option (see c15) (Regina) + adjust dot's distance depending on zoom factor (Heiko) + dots should remain a reasonable size and shift in conjunction with zoom (Stuart) => change it similar to dashed line of text boxes; zoom in goes with smaller distance and larger dots Since I was traveling home and couldn't join: As Regina said, it is possible to change color now (and I changed the color in my instalation) however LO needs sane defaults that make it usable by most people. It's a bit silly to keep a default color for the dots with terrible contrast and visibility from the time of Open Office... The grid is turned off by default already. Anyone that turns it on, is because it needs to use it as an auxiliary tool. If it's barely visible, because it is Light Gray on White Background then it becomes nearly useless. Also the steps to change its color require the user to really dig deep into the options menu. Should we expect that from a novice user or even an intermediate user? You are the only advocate of a darker color and we agreed in the meeting to keep the light grey. It works perfectly at 100% and just needs adjustment for other zoom levels. I know I'm discussing after the meeting but you could add me in CC of such bugs if you want me to see them. If a sighted person report to us the contrast is not good we shouldn't think in term of number of people, IMO we should think in term of usability. Most of visual-impaired people I've met and also myself need contrasted stuff on their screen. It's also useful for elderly people and most of people we obtain a better UX on their computer. Pedro is fully right, PowerPoint is more contrasted than LibreOffice Impress in his screenshots. Why we shouldn't be as contrasted as PowerPoint ? It's not needed to have a dotted background but having black dot on rectangle box is, indeed, helpful. The accessibility guidelines of the W3C WCAG 2.0 guidelines specify to use a contrast level of at least 4.5 : see https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/visual-audio-contrast-contrast.html @Heiko: Hope my feedback could help to decide. Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the weekly meeting 2018-May-30
Le 29/05/2018 à 17:26, Heiko Tietze a écrit : * Guideline for floating widgets +https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=87239 + remain active, by default + close per x but not escape On Uther application, on Thunderbird or Firefox for Linux for exemple escape is used to close floating window. For consistency between applications, I think to make it possible to use both alt+F4 and escape should be a good idea. + non-resizable I'm not agree with the idea to make thing non-re sizable because user could change the default font size on its interface and could want to resize floating window to make it possible to see the whole items in their screen. + close expanded but not floating controls on escape or when focus is lost Could you please add an example ? I'm not sure to understand correctly this point. Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design meeting 2018-Apr-25
Le 24/04/2018 à 20:27, Heiko Tietze a écrit : Missing maintenance, out-dated design, better alternatives, installation size, no SVG, no large sizes, OK, thank you very much for the clarification :). After all, you're in the right way with this change. Even if users could complain about changes, they also complain about poor design. If an extension could be installed, it could be done if needed. Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design meeting 2018-Apr-25
Le 24/04/2018 à 18:15, Pedro Rosmaninho a écrit : Sorry, but why should they expect to keep the theme they know? Sometimes defaults change, and if people don't want their defaults to change they can keep on LTS versions. If they're updating from an old version of software to a new one it's likely that there will be changes, including in UI. If they don't read release notes why are they even installing a new version of LO even? If the information is provided that there's a new look for Libre Office I find it very doubtful people will fill bugs because they don't find Tango. It's a given that the default has changed. Right but icons are the way to represent features so if you're accustom with icons, you could expect to continue to use it. I'm visual-impaired, if someone changes icons on the screen, I'll complain or try to get the old one. But :), I'm aware that I'm a little bit conservative because most users I know doesn't want to spend time to learn again a software or change their habits. @Heiko: What is the reason to drop Tango? Disk space? Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design meeting 2018-Apr-25
Le 24/04/2018 à 13:43, Heiko Tietze a écrit : + tbd: the future of Tango, Tango_testing, Industrial, Galaxy, and Crystal + please file tickets to remove these themes (or rather make it an extension) Hello Heiko :), On my LibreOffice 4.2, Tango is the current default icon theme so people that upgrade from old version could expect to keep the theme they know. I don't think making extension it's a simple way to add theme because if Tango is shipped insides a release and not inside another, the reactions could be: - Ah, LibreOffice Has dropped those themes - Ah, there is a bug to fill because I no longer find Tango I don't see any mental way to think theme has been moved to extension except for those that read release notes. Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Agenda for the design meeting 2018 Mar/21
Le 21/03/2018 à 17:20, kainz.a a écrit : You made the UI file with Glade a GUI design app from the gnome project. It's "cool" but definitly not the way a user can edit the UI. Also the sidebar items aren't configurable. For now there is no way to edit the Notebookbar as a LO user. Maybe in the future, ... OK, I understand better what you mean. Thanks. Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: Agenda for the design meeting 2018 Mar/21
Le 21/03/2018 à 14:26, kainz.a a écrit : As the notebookbar is different implemented then the default and sidebar layout I don't think it should be default in the near future. Bigest problem is that when the NB bugs are fixed the NB isn't configurable by the LO UI. How the NB will be configurable if not from the UI file? How it is generated? Best regards, Alex. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] GSoC'17: Customization
Le 04/06/2017 à 23:24, Heiko Tietze a écrit : On 04.06.2017 23:14, Alex ARNAUD wrote: It's an essential feature for disabled people to be able to customize their UI. Please elaborate this. Variant 1 is designed with "normal" a11y in mind, meaning you have the mnemonics of labels (hope all controls have one in the mockup) and access to the context menu per dedicated key. The question to me is why disabled persons would customize menu, toolbar, and shortcuts. Average users do likely customize in order to comply with known UIs such as past LibreOffice versions, or shortcuts from other programs. And that's possible (in both variants) per quick access to the extendable presets (today we have only one general setting "Libreoffice"). That's why I would hide the less relevant controls. The default UI/UX tries to fit the need of the majority. Blind people for example may have difficulties to understand the content of the screen. The screen is mostly based on context of element and blind people have only access to a linear representation of the screen. When we have a person with difficulties to have a mental representation of a UI/UX it's really useful to adapt it to fit exactly his cognitive situation, at least to let one the time to learn things to go to standards at one's rhythm. Best regards. ps: I talk about blind people because it's what I'm aware of because I'm myself a low-vision person. -- Alex ARNAUD Visual-Impairment Project Manager Hypra - "Humanizing technology" -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: GSoC'17: Customization
Le 04/06/2017 à 15:32, V Stuart Foote a écrit : @Heiko, Bubli as GSOC mentor to Muhammet --please ensure keyboard/AT testing during development, and engage the keyboard and AT users during the QA process for use with ORCA, VoiceOver, and NVDA. If you want a tester in the early stage I'm available by mail or by IRC on the #libreoffice-design channel. I'm a visual-impaired person that works at Hypra. Hypra has equipped about 100 users, mostly blind persons, on Debian GNU/Linux with the Orca screen reader. We have an important network of blind if you want a larger number of tester. Happy hacking :) ! -- Alex ARNAUD Visual-Impairment Project Manager Hypra - "Humanizing technology" -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] GSoC'17: Customization
Le 04/06/2017 à 11:30, Heiko Tietze a écrit : On 04.06.2017 11:18, toki wrote: Just want to make explicit my preference of Variant 2. I strongly advice for a simple dialog (variant 1). We make it over-complicated with functions split over various controls just for sake of accessibility. But the dialog is for customization of the UI, a task rarely done be disabled users. Hi Heiko :) ! I'm not opposite to variant 1, I just prefer the variant 2. It's an essential feature for disabled people to be able to customize their UI. For a simple example, it's a blind person that customize computer for Hypra customers so he need to be able to do such things. Disabled users have to be able to use the same feature as others. Cheers. -- Alex ARNAUD Visual-Impairment Project Manager Hypra - "Humanizing technology" -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] GSoC'17: Customization
Dear all, I really likes the look and feel of the variant 2 because it's easy to read and understand. Also the variant 2 seems to take into account keyboard-only users like blind persons. Best regards. -- Alex ARNAUD Visual-Impairment Project Manager Hypra - "Humanizing technology" Le 30/05/2017 à 14:23, Heiko Tietze a écrit : Hello all, this year we want to rework the customization dialog [1]. The task is based on a rather old blog post [2] so we went over the proposal in the past days and made a couple of refinements. In this course we realized that we have different layouts of the UI and the workflow in mind. So we prepared mockups for the two variants and want to get your opinion. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IPXkYMmyXQzoVUdMpnBeoQdf-LNp5_oNaqfW6OFhxqA The project has started this week, so we need quick feedback. A simple thumbs up or down is okay, explanations are better. Thanks a lot in advance, Heiko [1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Development/GSoC/Ideas#Revamp_the_Customization_dialog [2] https://user-prompt.com/de/how-to-make-libreoffice-customization-usable/ -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weekly design/UX meeting on Jan/19
Le 18/01/2017 à 17:43, Heiko Tietze a écrit : * Accessibility guideline + http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Guideline-for-navigation-tt4205277.html + No reply on the MLs so far, how to proceed? Dear Hikiko and all, I should take a look deeply to give you a correct answer. V.stuart could be also able to answer to this question but it's not a one minute reply for me. Best regards. -- Alex ARNAUD Visual-Impairment Project Manager Hypra - "Humanizing technology" -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weekly design/UX meeting on Jan/19
Le 22/01/2017 à 11:50, Heiko Tietze a écrit : Hi Alex, Hi Heiko, nothing to hurry. We made progress in this GDoc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oKabPLLVe9s53i475W1-v0QA7cxc_0oT0qfVr68KWjM; two ideas to discuss and the description of current situation, which is likely not 100% correct. Actually I hope to find time in Bruxelles to talk with Jean-Phillipe, it's said he will be there. I'll be also in Bruxelles, nice to meet you and others LibreOffice design team at this event :). I've began to read documentation and I'll take a look this week more deeply in this important question about UI design. Best regards. -- Alex ARNAUD -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: design+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
