Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2022-Dec-15 (THU)

2022-12-14 Thread Gerhard Weydt 



Am 14.12.2022 um 09:34 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello all,

the next design/UX meeting is on Thursday, Dec/15,
14:00 CET/GMT+1 resp. 1pm UTC/13:00.

Here is the agenda:

 * Improve the wording of "JREs already installed" list title,
   to remove confusion
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152453
   + change “Java runtime environments (JRE) already installed:” to
 "Installed on this system:"?

 * Dedicated sidebar deck for table-related functions
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=152481
   + questions in c0

 * Writer Impress : the image compression form should change the
   image resolution only if it decreases
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145161
   + have a maximum to not "reduce" compression to a higher dpi than
 the original?

 * Add option to remove trailing spaces in the Basic IDE
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94524
   + is this needed?


see my comment in the bug report.

 * Simple clicking a module gives the impression that this module
   has the view
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145269
   + Basic IDE, modules' tree: select is not open


Full pad including backlog is here: 
https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design


Hope to see you on Jitsi at https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/design

Cheers,
Heiko




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Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2021-Dec-02 (THU)

2021-11-30 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hi all,

my comments to the first two entrioes:

Am 30.11.2021 um 11:32 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello all,

the next design/UX meeting is on Thursday, Dec/02,
14:00 Berlin/CET/GMT+1 resp. 1pm UTC/13:00.

Here is the agenda:

 * Column width dialog doesn't allow setting width of all columns at once
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145738

I just added this comment to the bug report:
If you select some columns, you can use the context menu -> Size -> 
Distribute Columns Evenly do do that, It works even for some 
(contiguous) columns, not only for all.


In addition, I have some doubt that the use case is frequent enough to 
be worth the effort of implementing another way of doing the job.


 * Column tab of Table Properties dialog is confusing and frustrating
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145739

I agree that looking at the help should be sufficient.


 * Ability to forbid the use of direct formatting
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=53847
   + idea has some benefits (Thomas)
   + per MUFFIN/Notebookbar (Stuart)
   + per template/extension (Heiko)
   + done via "Formatting (Styles)" toolbar (requires to manually
 disable the other toolbars (Heiko)
 + does not cover all UI elements incl. sidebar (Thomas)
   + implement UNO commands to modify style-level character and
 paragraph properties first (bug 107865) (Thomas)

 * add Comments field to Styles
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=145518
   + good idea (Mike, Dieter)
   + how/where to show to end users? (Heiko)

 * Improvement - PDF export defaults in Options/General
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=54052


Full pad including backlog is here: 
https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design


Hope to see you on Jitsi at https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/design

Cheers,
Heiko




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Re: [libreoffice-design] Suggestion to Improve Libreoffice - Reg

2021-05-31 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hello Heiko,

I think I understand what #3 (copy table) means: it is probably 
https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=107201.
I have known that for just a while, but did never bother to look into 
Bugzilla.


Cheers
Gerhard

Am 31.05.2021 um 09:01 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello TR,

you cross-post to different mailing lists, this is assumed as bad 
habit. Please register yourself and use one list.


In general we work on Bugzilla. Please report bugs or submit 
enhancement requests on this platform, see [1]. Our QA team organizes 
topics in META tickets making it easier to check whether a similar has 
been filed. For the mail merge question it is [2], there are many 
topics around menus, eg. [3]. I don't understand #3 (copy table) and 
#4 (lists in tables).


If you report something like "menus are confusing" it's not 
actionable. The documentation team has written many great tutorials 
and manuals, and a complex software such as any full-featured office 
suite requires learning (reading "confusing" in terms of "hard to 
understand"). If your "confusing" means "unorganized" please be more 
specific. Ideally with a use case like "I want to achieve  and 
try . But  hinders me to do it. I tried  but it didn't 
help." Of course you are welcome to make a suggestion.


Please always keep in mind that your workflow might not be what the 
average user does. The design team will balance your needs with 
possible negative impact and needed effort and make a suggestion to 
either resolve or to not fix the issue.


Do you know the community help site https://ask.libreoffice.org/? 
Could also be a start to discuss problems.


Cheers,
Heiko

[1] https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/BugReport
[2] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102998
[3] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=85811

On 31.05.21 07:55, T R RAVIANAND wrote:

Sir / Madam

I am T.R.Ravianand working in a Government Institution, I am 
regularly using LibreOffice for my day today office work. I find the 
following problems please try to solve as early as possible:


 1. In Libre writer Mail merge is too complicated when compare to 
MS Office, there is no provision to insert the filed as in the MS 
office, please provide.  Then the preview of the Mail Merge is not 
showing, so it is too complicated to align the Table while using Mail 
merge.


 2. Overall Menus are looks so confusing, make it clean and 
appealing color.


 3. I cannot able to copy a table + some text like MS Word, In 
LibreOffice also I am able to copy but, it is complicated and can't 
handle by a average user.


 4. Toggled Numbering List is creating lot of problem when using 
with Table, But that is very good in MS Office.  MSoffice treating 
Toggled Number List in different style in Table and Paragraph.


The above said are some suggestion to improve LibreOffice.

Waiting for your reply and some improvement.

Thanking you

T.R.RAVIANAND

31-05-2021









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Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2020-Dec-17 (THU)

2020-12-15 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hello all,

see my remark for one item below.
Am 15.12.2020 um 16:22 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello all,

the next design/UX meeting is on Thursday, Dec/17,
14:00 Berlin/CET/GMT+1 resp. 13pm UTC.

Here is the agenda:

 * FIND AND REPLACE DIALOG: Allow users to see the replace result before
   moving to the next search
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138285

 * Remove Euro Converter Wizard from Wizard menu
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135580

 * UI: Confusing categorization of the 'Hidden' feature
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138658

 * Add label to "Settings" button in Template Manager and change label 
to "Categories"

   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138846

 * UI: Label "type" & Image  in the image properties dialog not really
   helpful (self-explaining)
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138844
Finding fitting names can be difficult. If someone came up with a 
convincing proposal, then it could be changed, but otherwise it's not 
worth the effort (the documentation and its translations will also have 
to be changed), if the result is no better, but simply different.
IrfanView, a popular freeware tool for handling images also has a tab 
named "Image", although the entire application is about images.


 * Add bulk-save/bulk-close options for documents
   + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101247
   + multi-document interface (MDI) instead of an application with one 
interface

 for all documents/graphics is are rather not suited for this method


Full pad including backlog is here: 
https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design


Hope to see you on Jitsi at https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/design

Cheers,
Heiko


Cheers,
Gerhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2020-JUN-10 (WED)

2020-06-09 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hi all,

Am 09.06.2020 um 13:27 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello all,

the next design/UX meeting is on Wednesday, Jun/10,
20:00 Berlin/CEST/GMT+2 resp. 6pm/18:00 UTC.


Here is the agenda:

  * Feature request: Insert current date dialog
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132995

  * Endnote Heading for HTML and Epub exports
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133577
+ always adding a header before endnotes? tdf#89736

  * Indexes: Allow user to rearrange sub-entries in non-alphabetical order
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133523
+ RFE is not flexible; WF

  * Hide surrounding border frame at sidebar
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133690

I added the following comment to the bug report:
There is one importnat difference between LibO and LOOL: the sidebar in 
LibO has several panes which can be brought to the front by using the 
option buttons on the right, whereas the LOOL pane only shows the 
properties. The frame surrounding the fields and separating them from 
the buttons, which is simlarly used in many dialogs, hence makes sense.
The double vertical separator is also used on the color bar (where 
normally it is horizontal) and the pages pane in Draw and Impress. The 
space is needed any way for the collapse button, and the two lines 
emphasize the collapse button and the border between sidebar and the 
workspace. What's wrong with that?

I cannot support the proposed changes.


  * Area properties don't match color handling the outline shape receives
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132880
+ works for me but open for proposals (Heiko)

  * UI: RESET (to default) button for search and replace dialog
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=133391
+ really add another button?


Full pad including backlog is here:
https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design

Hope to see you on Jitsi at https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/design

Cheers,
Heiko




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Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2020-APR-29 (WED)

2020-04-28 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hello all,

Am 28.04.2020 um 18:08 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello all,

the next design/UX meeting is on Wednesday, Apr/29,
20:00 Berlin/CEST/GMT+2 resp. 6pm UTC.

Here is the agenda:

  * Writer does not allow a user-set default view/zoom
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132274
+ option to override document zoom level
This would mean to have two controls, one to switch on/off overriding, 
and the second to define the zoom value (if you do not want to use a 
special value like 0 % to define no overriding).


  * Inserted file not displayed correctly (Numbering missing)
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132289
+ list style must not be ignored when pasting/inserting styled text

  * Opentype features window is longer than screen size and it is difficult to 
reach ok/cancel buttons
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=128176
+ three columns or scrollwindow

  * Add ability to keep vector image and compress replacement image in image 
compression dialog
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127854

  * Extend the marker line if tracked changes spans over the next paragraph
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104346
+ no objection, enhancement not a bug, low priority

  * Definition List (or Definition Index or Glossary) at the end of the page - 
EDITING
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=118455
+ WFM; would be nice to have it more comfortable though but quite a lot of 
effort
  and unclear if possible with the ODF

  * Adopt new application icons for LibreOffice 7.0
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=132398
+ seeking for opinions, see c8


Full pad including backlog is here:
https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design

Hope to see you on Jitsi at https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/design

Cheers,
Heiko


Cheers,
Gerhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2019-JAN-22 (WED)

2020-01-22 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hello all,

I must withdraw my point "First". I was wrong when I thought that the 
necessity of two separate steps would pose a problem: they are connected 
by their common index entry.


Cheers
Gerhard

Am 22.01.2020 um 00:00 schrieb Gerhard Weydt:



Am 21.01.2020 um 21:10 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello all,

the next design/UX meeting is tomorrow, WED JAN/22nd,
20:00 Berlin/CET/GMT+1 resp. 7pm UTC.

Here is the agenda:


  * ALPHABETICAL INDEX: make it easier to index ranges of pages
    + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=130003
    + WFM
The request seems sensible. Taking his example World War I 34-61: You 
will not find the term on every page, although the subject is present 
on all these pages. In fact, the request means an extension of the 
present concept of an index, which shows all pages where the index 
entry does actually appear; the present situation is equivalent to the 
result of a search for this term. The request proposes to add some 
more general terms to the index, meaning that pages are included which 
do not contain the exact entry, but deal with it. Adding such general 
terms to an index could be helpful for the reader.
Although, as I said, I deem the request reasonable, I see problems for 
the realisation.
First: the addition of the checkboxes proposed concerns two separate 
steps; what happens if one omits the second step?, Or if one starts 
with the end step? Or intermingles two terms?
Second: R. Green obviously assumes in his cited example that the term 
"World War I" actually appears on the first and last page of the range 
he wishes to be displayed. For such a general term this might be 
probable for the first page, but for the last page I would not expect 
that the probability is higher than 50 %. Hence one would have to use 
some trick, perhaps an invisible text as index entry, I haven't tried 
do that; but if it works, it would be easy to copy that to each of the 
intermittent pages, thus making the requested extension of the 
functionality unnecessary.
Third: the cited example suggests another way of adding such entries 
to the index: creating a general term and then setting markers on the 
first and last pages of a range, and this should be repeatable: World 
War I 23-45, 67, 89- 92...
I think that the scenario shown in the last section really would cover 
the intention of the request, seen as a general concept for Writer, 
but I have no ideas how to realise that, and I'm not sure if adding 
such functionality is worth the effort.


  * Add tooltip to explain greyed out "Inherit from" in "Numbering 
Style" dialog

    + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129910
    + add tooltip (when disabled) or hide for numbering/page style 
(see c3)
Agree with your last statement: Greying out is as good a sign for a 
function not applicable as its absence, but might be easier to 
achieve. Hence I do not support the request.


  * LibreOffice Options Start Page
    + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=130083
    + do we need a start page?

I simply don't understand.


  * Gray out categories in Navigator, if they have zero instances
    + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=129625
    + WFM since disabling root nodes is very uncommon and prevents 
interactions (Heiko)
I don't understand the reference to a very complicated text in your 
last answer in the bug report, but I think a missing plus sign should 
be sufficient. So I see no need for the request.


  * Show footnotes and endnotes in Navigator
    + https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=98005



Full pad including backlog is here:
https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design

Hope to see you on Jitsi at https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/design

Cheers,
Heiko







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Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2019-OCT-03 (THU)

2019-10-01 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hi Heiko,

my remarks on 2 items:

Cheers

Gerhard

Am 01.10.2019 um 16:47 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Hello all,

the next design/UX meeting is on THURSDAY OCT/03,
14:00 Berlin/CEST/GMT+2 resp. 12am UTC.

Here is the agenda:

Topics

  * Search bar shouldn't remain open across sessions
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=65346

I agree with Stuart.


  * EDITING In Writer tables cut removes only the contents of the rows/columns
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127759

I added the following comment to the bug report:

How do you know that this is the user's intention? He might as well want 
to move the content of the row or column to a different position and 
fill the row or column with a new content.

In addition, the behaviour is consistent with Calc.


  * Start with Template Selection off by default
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127823
+ WFM

  * Pushing More... in language selection in Calc Status bar leads to Language 
settings instead of cell properties
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127856

  * Some Start Center layout reworking
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127829

  * New Print dialog is too high
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127782
+ minimum requirement was defined as WXGA (768px)
+ place controls in a scrollwindow

Full pad including backlog is here:
https://pad.documentfoundation.org/p/design

Hope to see you on Jitsi at https://jitsi.documentfoundation.org/design

Cheers,
Heiko




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Re: [libreoffice-design] Ctrl+Enter to trigger the default button in dialogs

2019-05-13 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hi Cor,

Am 13.05.2019 um 16:22 schrieb Cor Nouws:

Hi Heiko,

Heiko Tietze wrote on 5/13/19 4:10 PM:

...

This is done by checking "Can default"
and "Has default" in Glade. It would be very uncommon to assign any
other key combination to it and I'd assume the Ctrl key is just
ignored here.

I explained the situations where it's different.
And as written, it sometimes is Alt+Enter closes. E.g. Macro> Organize dlg.

But Enter works well for Macros -> Organise Macros and Macros -> 
Organise Dialogs! So why do you say it's different?


Gerhard

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Re: [libreoffice-design]

2019-03-22 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hi Humberto,

what do you want to do?
Subscription: send mail to design+subscr...@global.libreoffice.org 



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Greetings

Gerhard

Am 22.03.2019 um 08:24 schrieb Humberto D'Arterio:





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Re: [libreoffice-design] Agenda for the design/UX meeting 2019-Feb-06 (Wed)

2019-02-10 Thread Gerhard Weydt 

Hi Italo,

What do you mean when saying Base "is missing the scripting feature"? 
Surely you can use macros in Base, as well as in other components of 
LibreOffice. These macros can be written in Baisc, which I have often 
used, or in some other languages, which I haven't tried myself. And 
without these surely a database application generally would be very 
"raw", confined to the basic actions. The work that Base or the the 
database does is essential for the whole business, and without it 
nothing would work, but the checks and actions done by the additional 
programming (using macros or even some sophisticated functions of the 
database system) are the points that end users can value. They decide 
about a system being accepted.
Now much can be done using Basic macros, which is quite easy. Using them 
really is adding the salt to the dish. There may be some cases where 
Basic is too slow, because it is interpreting the code. Then you can use 
other scripting languages, which I haven't done, but other people speak 
of it.
But there may be a big problem for people used to Access: as far as I 
understand, macros used in Access cannot be simply transferred to 
LibreOffice, because the Basic dialects are not completely compatible. I 
have never had to do with these problems, so I cannot say more, but I 
fear that this may be the cause for some people to reject trying 
LibreOffice. Which is a shame because looking at a problem from a new 
angle is in many cases very helpful.
As regards Excel instead of Access or Calc instead of Base: that seems 
to be a general problem, the practically endless table of Calc/Excel 
provides the basic features most needed at first sight , without any 
effort for definition of structures; the difficulties creep in later, 
and the users try for a very long time to mend the problems, instead of 
rethinking the situation. This is a general problem, not concerned only 
with LibreOffice.
I can only offer my opinion that in many cases the use of Excel (or 
Calc) is second best and due to a neglect of deeper investigation, which 
would have yielded a database solution, but how can we change that?


Greetings

Gerhard

Am 10.02.2019 um 19:08 schrieb Italo Vignoli:

I cannot disagree more. In Italy, most enterprises and every public
administration are using Microsoft Access, and this represents a problem
when they have to migrate to LibreOffice (as Base is not seen as a good
replacement for Microsoft Access, because is missing the scripting feature).

On 10/02/2019 10:56, Pedro Rosmaninho wrote:

Just to mention that Microsoft Access (the equivalent to Base) is barely
used in the professional world.
Usually companies use Excel and connect it to MySQL or apps like PowerBI
depending on the purpose.

On Sun, Feb 10, 2019 at 9:40 AM Heiko Tietze  wrote:


While the idea of the Notebookbar is exactly this, to provide completely
different UIs, I doubt we can make Base "a variant of Calc“. But you are
very welcome to draft the idea or implement yourself (should be possible
for everyone who uses mailing lists).


Am 07.02.2019 um 21:26 schrieb Miguel Mayol :

I had today a idea i think is a very good one:

One interface option - better if it is the default one - in LO BASE

equal to the CALC one

The reason is that people are using EXCEL for databases
because they do not know
because they have the cheaper version of MSO without Access
and because they think it is "easier"

Doing this and a promo viral video that shows that it is
- as easy as a spreadsheet to insert  and show data
- and as powerful as a database to deal with it,
especially addressed to university professors and PhD students, probably

would increase a lot the use of BASE in substitution of MS Excel for
managing databases, and the use of other components of LibreOffice.

I went to bugzilla, but I was not able to log in, so sorry, but as I

only collaborate with suggestions, I did not want this one that I think is
great, and probably very easy to implement, to pass by.

I remembered an old database named FileMaker that  was very easy to use

because it had a interface near to what a spreadsheet is.


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Re: [libreoffice-design] Minutes from the UX/design meeting 2019-Jan-17

2019-01-17 Thread Gerhard Weydt 



Am 17.01.2019 um 15:14 schrieb Heiko Tietze:

Present: Rizal, Cor, Heiko

Tickets

...
  * Names of Drawing Objects can be Deleted
+ https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=122477
+ allow empty names (=WF) or revert to default (=NEW)
+ mostly a Navigator issue where empty names make an object hidden
+ renaming objects to existing names is not possible, except for empty names
+ ideally we have a flag "Hide in Navigator and ToC" and revert the name to
  the default on deletion but that takes some effort for less benefit 
(Heiko)
+ deleting names is a user action so intentionally done (Cor)
=> not a bug (Cor, Regina)

Did you consider *Bug 122445* 
 - Grouped 
Shapes are not Displayed in the Navigator? The reason for this and also 
for shapes not shown in the navigator for Calc, Draw and Impress is that 
they are not given default names. This might be an easy task, and 
certainly has some benefit.


Gerhard

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