[libreoffice-design] [PATCH] fdo#31251 Writer Impress shadow consistency
Hi list, Since OOo UX team implemented a new shadow on impress which seem to please more people than the writer shadow I provided before, here is a patchset that add the same shadow to writer. Currently, impress one does not honnor shadow settings (color and shadow presence), once those patches are integrated, I'll unify the code to have both shadow using the same configuration options). I've seen occasional graphical glitches in book mode, I've been unable to track them down (they're not worse than what I occasionaly see in current stable writer version), if some writer experienced guy could take a look (Cédric Bosdonnat maybe), I guess it's related to some piece of code making bad assumption on shadow, I fixed a lot of them but haven't found this one… Regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Specification for Document Background (...)
Le Sun, 03 Apr 2011 21:58:24 +0200, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com a écrit : Hi all, Hi, I promised to work seriously on the topic ... so here is what I've achieved so far. I was unable to compress the thoughts in one single mail, so I've started a dedicated wiki page (a.k.a. specification) to describe the behavior for all the applications. Now, there are proposals for: * The document border (= outline and shadow) * The application background, gradient * The application background, motif (at the moment, it rather is an idea to think about) http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/Development/DocumentBackground @ Sébastien: I've stopped at some point, because I'd like to hear your comments, questions and your general opinion what can be implemented and whether you are still interested to work on this topic (I really hope so *g*). The answer is yes to both questions :-). I'm currently rather busy at work, I hope to work on LO a couple of days by the end of the month. I'm working on draw/impress page shadow to have a first version which could be improved and stick with Writer's one. @ Nik: I'd like you to comment on the use of the motif patter - would that be somehow okay? Or maybe you have some improvement proposals ... @ Andrew: Does that still meet what you've intended with your proposal in fdo bug 31251? By applying the Tango Guidelines, I came very close to your initial shadow design. @ All: Please have a look at the specification and help to point out mistakes and issues ... Cheers, Christoph Regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: More general stuff
Le Wed, 09 Mar 2011 18:58:00 +1100,
Nik n...@tdf.nikashsingh.com a écrit :
Hi Christoph, all,
Oh boy. I thought I'd wait a few days before responding so that I
wasn't as offended as I am now,
but it looks like you're expecting something from me and I don't want
to delay Sebastien's work.
Hi,
No that's fine, I'll wait for you, I've to implement shadows in impress
et draw and once done I could integrate your work easily since I'd know
where is the code I need to modify. Let's first start with simple
shadow and once we've agreed on a design (borders count, blur and
color), I apply the patch that integrates it.
If you read the full thread, we're currently in the state you where
proposing (I'd propose having a drop shadow by default and having the
option to turn it off, or turn it 'flat', we don't have the flat
option right know, I don't know if having that much options for
something as simple as a shadow ('cause I don't think final users would
have any idea of the work behind that shadow) is a good thing).
The shadow color and width can be easily modified by anybody that has a
master build (3 images to change in a .zip and on value in the
appearancedialog) to allow finding right values. Again, I'm not a
design guy so my opinion about this is rather useless, that's why I
took some hours to implement configuration to allow you to play with it
and come with good value.
[...]
Personally, I would have preferred
you to move on to some other fun / high-impact win, rather than
getting bogged down in random details here ;-)
Please don't expect anything from me. I won't be contributing to this
task further.
I don't volunteer my free time to be told how unimportant Design
random details are.
I don't think Michael intention was to hurt anybody, emails have this
drawback that nuances are not correctly rendered.
Someone else will pick it up. Good luck.
I sincerely hope that you'll change your mind and provide a good mockup
(maybe with a gradient background too, shadows have an alpha channel so
we can put anything behind).
-Nik
Sébastien
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Re: [Libreoffice] [libreoffice-design] General relationship between coders and designers (was: [PUSHED]fdo#31251...)
Le Wed, 09 Mar 2011 22:11:19 +0100, Bernhard Dippold bernh...@familie-dippold.at a écrit : Hi Michael, all, Hi, Reply inline :-) (don't fear scrolling even if you do not see any answer for some time) At first I want to thank Sébastien not only for his work, but also for being open to the discussion here, even if this means to delay the final inclusion of his patch. I don't care about the delay of inclusion (the only fear I have is my hard drive failing with hours of non pushed work :-) ). Discussion is a good thing and I hope it won't be broken because of misunderstandings. I tried to calm down for more than one day by now, but as Michael repeated his position, I have to reply now. Sorry for not being able to react as positive as Christoph - perhaps I didn't spend enough time in UX/UI to learn to live with this kind of disappointment. *Short version:* If Michael (as one of the most relevant developer in our community) is right with attitude against non-coding contributors and if this is the official position of the LibreOffice project and The Document Foundation, I will not keep on spending my spare time and dedication to this open source project any more. Again, I don't think that Michael wanted to hurt anyone's feeling. I strongly believe that LO have to take into account user feedback about usability and design, so I'm pleased to have discussion with design people. Interaction is a good thing. When coders are allowed and encouraged to do their changes regardless of the voting of the relevant experts in areas their code contribution touches, we come back to a two-class community where the broader community is not involved in decisions taken by non-experts but influencing the entire community and it's public standing. Thing is, the original bug report provided a 4 borders mockup, I quickly implemented it (minus some display glitches that were not fixed, they're present in stable LO version but are not this visible since the shadow is thin and opaque), and when I show it to some people everybody was suprised that the shadow was on 4 borders (the 5 people who saw the screenshot told me that there should be only 2 borders). Here this is my fault, I didn't knew that the design team had a mailing list (which seem to take 8 hours to deliver mails into my inbox), if I had, I would have posted the screenshot here to get more feedback. I apologize for that and didn't thought it would go that far. I will no longer be part of such a community. As I said to Nick, I hope that my apologies will make you change your mind. I have very bad taste regarding design (as a vast majority of developers), so I fully trust design team opinion when it's given. *Long version:* Michael Meeks schrieb: Hi Sebastien, On Tue, 2011-03-08 at 09:09 +0100, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: this simple shadow patch has generated a long discussion on Libreoffice-design. Some people don't like the color, some people don't like the amount of blur, some people want no shadow at all, some people want a 4 borders shadow. You're right about the different personal feelings, but they are not a decision of the LibreOffice Design Team. For a developer interested in working on a certain topic it would be easier to get a final voting like The Design Team asks you to add a 8 px wide blurred shadow in grey transparency to all borders of the document. If the zoom factor reduces the space between two sheets to less than 16px, the overlapping areas of the shadow should be cut off. This should apply to every area of LibreOffice, where document borders are visible, namely Writer, Impress, Draw, XML forms [others not yet searched for]. But such a specification is necessarily a result of some kind of discussion, if there is no single decision maker. As we don't want such single person decisions, this list is talkative. I perfectly understand and agree with that. That's why I made the second patch (which gave me headache), I wanted that people who *know* about design could test their feeling on real use cases rather than trying to get something out of Gimp/Photoshop. And that's why I said several times that he would be nice if some people from design team could have a master build so they can test design patches even before they're included. So here is a second patchset that tries to address the first three critics : I hope you understand now, that the comments have not been meant as critics, but as part of the decision making process in the Design Team. Sorry, english isn't my mothertong and critics was maybe too strong, it had to be understood as remarks I guess… Perhaps we need a different way to interact with developers, keeping them out of our processes and coming back to them with the results. This could be the relevant bug-report, a mail on the developer list or any other structure. I disagree. I think having a developer may help design guys to have
[libreoffice-design] Re: [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com a écrit : Hi Sebastien, On Tue, 2011-03-01 at 23:42 +0100, Sébastien Le Ray wrote: Here is a complete patch for fdo#31251. It adds a smooth shadow to the page. Wow - it is really pretty indeed :-) I just pushed it. Nice work ! can you confirm is it LGPLv3+/MPL ? Incidentally, it would be lovely to have the post-it notes, not only to have a border, but to have curved corners at the bottom, but not the top, so they really look like sticky notes. ie. take a sticky note an stick it flat on your desk, and you see the effect [ both bottom corners curl slightly ] ;-) possibly that will require some (manual?) re-coloring action of the bitmaps, which might be slightly painful, though I guess it is just a matter of keeping a constant AlphaMask bitmap around, and merging it into a BitmapEx with a Bitmap (of the same size obviously) 'Erase'd with the correct color for the note. During its development, I found that SwRect::_Intersection (used in page margin painting) returns negative height/width if the two rectangles do not overlap. I don't know if it is the expected behavior or a bug. If it's a bug I guess I can provide a patch. Ho hum - probably a difficult one to audit for, to check every location to ensure they are not depending on this. Possibly it makes the impl. faster too (?). Well worth documenting though in the API. Thanks ! Michael. Hi, this simple shadow patch has generated a long discussion on Libreoffice-design. Some people don't like the color, some people don't like the amount of blur, some people want no shadow at all, some people want a 4 borders shadow. So here is a second patchset that tries to address the first three critics : - It adds a configuration option (in Appearance category) to set shadow color. It currently defaults to gray but I'm sure design team will find a more sensitive default : - It adds a configuration option to disable shadow; - It doesn't use bitmaps directly anymore but an alpha mask, so if people want to try another blur effect, they just have to edit images.zip:/sw/res/page-*-shadow-mask.png These are black white image. Black amount determines transparency, white being fully transparent. Here again, I'm sure that design people will find a better default. Only constraints are 1x10px for bottom shadow, 10x10px for corner and 10x1px for right shadow. I'll let design team play and discuss with that, when they agree on a default, I'll provide an additional patch to take it into account. Note: I had to perform a make dev-install for settings to be correctly saved. Regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Sat, 5 Mar 2011 09:09:44 +0200, Hillar Liiv liivhil...@gmail.com a écrit : Hi, I have made some mockup to show how different shadows look alike: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Docshadows.png Which looks best? Hi I definitely don't like the no blur shadows... I cannot tell which one from 4 borders or 2 borders looks best, I guess this is a matter of personal taste. One thing to take into account : if we use a large shadow and/or 4 borders shadow, we've to change to behavior of the zoom out to avoid shadow overlapping (when you zoom out to a little zoom level, pages are closer from each other than in zoom levels ~50%), so we either have to change pages spacing or shadow width when zooming out. Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Fri, 4 Mar 2011 21:36:19 +, Daniel Merker daniel.mer...@wayne.edu a écrit : Hi, Just a thought. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the background be the primary color of that application. For example, the Writer would have a blue tinted background with a shadow (I like the shadow on all sides), and Impress would have an organge tinted background with the same shadow around the slide. This should help tie in the color theme and help build on a general motif. -Daniel Merker Hi, The background color of the application can already be customized through preferences... regards Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Re: [Libreoffice] [PUSHED] fdo#31251 - Improve default page layout
Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 21:35:11 +0100, Christoph Noack christ...@dogmatux.com a écrit : Hi Sébastien, hi all! Hi Am Donnerstag, den 03.03.2011, 14:16 +0100 schrieb Sébastien Le Ray: Le Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:59:19 +, Michael Meeks michael.me...@novell.com a écrit : [...] Although I didn't see it yet, thanks for your work - I'm really looking forward. You can find a screenshot on http://misc.orniz.org/libreoffice/lo-shadow.png book mode is also handled nicely... [...] However, I'd like to provide some pointers to the Notes stuff - it's really worth spending some time digging through some of the descriptions (in my point-of-view). I think this is better than pre-process most of the stuff, since I'm unaware of your likings :-) The notes main wiki page (Notes2 because of the CWS that time): http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2 Here are the links to the detailed designs that had (sometimes) to be adapted due to technical constraints nobody spent the time for: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2#Status_and_Proposals And once finished with the default stuff, we have lots of further ideas: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Notes2_OtherIdeas Personally, I've already spend over one year with the Notes project being the UX representative, so I'd like to work with you on that - if you like :-) I'll be pleased to :) It'd be nice to have a UI tasks on libreoffice wiki presenting all tasks that are ready on a Design point of view but that have not yet been implemented. There is a lot of stuff on the Note2 wiki page, could you give priorities on various items? [...] If you are generally interested in working on Usability / Visual Design topics (of course, from the developer's point-of-view - and we really need some understanding and support here), feel invited to subscribe to the Design Team mailing list - some more information can be found here: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design Subscribed yesterday :-) It seems that you've been busy with more marketting stuff that UI design lately to cover the launch of LO, FOSDEM and funraising Waiting for you priorities mockups on notes work :-) Sébastien -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
