[Bug 11334]
I suppose the reason why this won't be fixed is because xorg is being replaced by wayland. Let's hope that wayland fixes it then. Soon enough xorg will be obselete. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to a duplicate bug report (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334]
I use both mouse buttons, so yes it does effect me. Just admit this was an awful design. Besides, they've refused to fix it. That's why it's been submitted to wayland instead. You can stay behind on old tech while the rest of us welcome the modern era. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to a duplicate bug report (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334]
Most users don't want this selection based clipboard. But if no one is gonna fix it for xorg, off I go to submit it gets implemented in wayland. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to a duplicate bug report (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
may I ask why epiphany is now invalid for this bug? It's a web browser, but it doesn't need copy and paste working properly? -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to a duplicate bug report (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Just so we don't fill up this bug report anymore, here's a fresh start for people who don't want it implemented the way freedesktop.org has: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wayland/+bug/865885 But would rather have it implemented properly, instead of on a per app basis. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is subscribed to a duplicate bug report (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste To manage notifications about this bug go to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/abiword/+bug/11334/+subscriptions -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Slated, thank you for your comment. You've just said what linux users say when they are confronted with bugs in their precious distro. That instead of fixing them, they write them off and tell the user to just not use it. It's one extreme to another. From this is the year of the linux desktop, to if you don't like it go use something else because it's free and if you got it for free you got no right to complain about it. I know it's a defense mechanism because that kind of response can only come from someone whose just had their reality shattered by a reasonable argument. When your entire belief system is suddenly shown be false or part of it is shown to be false, you can either accept it or rationalize it further so that it can again fit in your belief system. That's why some people's reasons here for not wanting this fixed are so predictable. You only can rationalize something so far. I'm not sure why the Ubuntu programmers have left this bug open for the community. With the amount of people wanting it fixed, I don't know why they won't commit to fixing this properly. Maybe they are with wayland. I'd hope so. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
For those who want this implemented properly, which I believe should happen in wayland, go check it out here: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/27331/ And vote it up so that it gets implemented! :) -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
This here is the problem with linux on the desktop. You have programmers like Slated here thinking inside a very narrow definition. He wants X11, now Xorg, to be modular at the cost of convenience. He's willing to put up with inadequacies like this just so it remains in his narrow definition of what it should do. And your trying to connect the clipboard with security doesn't jive. Linux I find on the servers I run gets updated just as often as windows does. I find the copy on select and middle click paste functionality abhorring. It is so error prone that only those who specifically know what they are doing, programmers and advanced linux users, can use it. And the only reason why it was implemented the way it was, was because they didn't want to change the terminal commands ctrl+c and they wanted it to work in a terminal first and that should be how it should work elsewhere. And the people who could implement it refuse to because they don't like it. They instead in their arrogant way, assume programmers who are use to the method that windows and mac os x do to work with the clipboard, think they will change their ways just to create their app on linux. Seeing the number of applications that don't comply with this goes to show that those programmers of windows and mac os x refuse to give in. That they want the clipboard to be just like it is on windows and mac os x. Telling them they need to add low level access just to deal with the clipboard on linux is stupid. All they should need to worry about is copying the data to the clipboard. The clipboard should worry about keeping this data. Not the app that the data was copied from. And besides, X11 and Xorg is ancient. It was dropped by google on android. Ubuntu and Fedora are moving away from it to wayland. it's just a mess of patches of kludge fixes that it's beyond saving. You can't implement anything modern on it cleanly without it ending up being a kludge. No one really uses the remote network capabilities of it anymore. It being modular has actually hurt it. And besides, it's not the 1980's anymore. We got computers that are way more powerful then that with a lot more memory that can easily deal with a persistent clipboard. So it's time to get away from that. It's what end users are use to. Don't be afraid to use the resources you are given. And the temporary solution of running a program to fix the clipboard is a problem in itself. You need to install it and most of the time they only support text. What about video, audio and other types of binary data? This was known about in 1993 and in a couple years it will be 20 years since the problem was known about. To say open source moves rapidly isn't always true when it comes to features end users want and programmers don't care to implement because no one is paying them money to implement it. Ubuntu has done a good job of making things easier but these fundamental features need to be their. That's how you'll become mainstream. I kept hearing every year from 2000-2010 that this year was gonna be the year of linux on the desktop. Well it hasn't happened. And the typical back pedal response was that we don't want to become mainstream then. So instead of fixing the problem, we'll just come up with another excuse not to fix it. Great job guys. -- You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug (36165). https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Title: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Welcome Sarah. If you read the comments here, I don't think people want it fixed on a per application basis. Linux developers coming from windows and mac os x, don't want to have to put in extra work on linux just to get the clipboard working with their app. They want it taken care of for them. What they would like is for it to be fixed in Xorg. The amount of time that it takes to transfer data from the hard drive to memory is almost negligible. The excuse that it saves time may have been true in 1993, but that is no longer the case. If you want an overview on what's wrong with the clipboard that gives more detail then the Ubuntu wiki has, read here: http://elliotth.blogspot.com/2008/08/desktop-linux-suckage- clipboard.html Now in terms of implementing, a number of things should be accomplished: 1. Retain clipboard data in Xorg itself. This fixes the problem in all DE's. 2. Identify the type of data stored in the clipboard so that a program expecting text and gets another type like part of an mp3, knows to ignore it. 3. Reserve shortcuts like ctrl+c cltrl+v and ctrl+x for the clipboard by default. Allow programs to override them if they wish. IE a terminal app. 4. Remove the right click as paste method and selection copy method. But once again allow programs to implement them if they wish. 5. When it's an actual file or directory, store the file location or directory location only but identify the data type as a file. As this would be too big to store in the clipboard. This we know won't go away easily since the shell is constantly running. 6. If a program exits and was holding a large amount of data in the clipboard, ask the user if they wish to remove it from the clipboard up on exit. 7. There should be 3 data types for the clipboard at minimum. 1st is text, 2nd data, and 3rd a file or directory. The 2nd one, data, could be broke down further. For example copying data from a program for audio might be in a format that only that program supports. So each program would have to specify the kinds of data from the clipboard it could accept. This way if you try to paste a data type from the clipboard that the current program doesn't recognize, it can simply ignore it. That's all I can think of for now. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
This list is gonna get pretty long if we start listing out every single app that doesn't follow the specification. The reason being that most of them don't follow it. And will the Ubuntu developers now have to keep adding in the follow the clipboard specification fix every time one of these applications gets updated by the software developer because we all know they don't like this specification. So why is the Xorg team trying to force this specification down everyone else's throats? -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
I've been watching the comments carefully over the past few days and we seem to be falling into the same traps previous comments already have mentioned but we can't do: 1. It's already spec'd out on a per application basis on how to properly implement it on linux. -this spec has been around for years and we only have a few applications that follow it -the reason why most linux developers don't follow it is because they don't like it -when they develop versions of their software on windows or mac os x, they don't need to jump through these extra hoops to get it working with the clipboard -so because they don't have to do it in windows and mac os x, they feel they shouldn't have to on linux either -remember developers are inherently lazy and anything that makes it easier to work with your platform, they will use -this implementation makes it harder to work with linux and they clearly don't like the spec 2. We got a clipboard manager already, just install that -this is a bandaid solution -only works with text -not installed by default -there must be one developed for each DE and its the equivalent of reinventing the wheel over and over which seems to occur in open source quite often I notice 3. Implement and fix it on Xorg itself -this is the right solution as it's where the clipboard exists -won't need multiple versions for each DE out there as each DE would immediately get it -needs to be spec'd out as it's only an idea right now -reasons why old school linux developers won't implement it and a new generation of linux developers will have to work on it: http://elliotth.blogspot.com/2008/08/desktop-linux-suckage-clipboard.html -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
@LimCore I don't think you understand the meaning of the definitions band aid and work around. A band aid or work around means it's not properly fixed or only partially implemented. The implementation is not expandable. It actually creates more work in the end due to it's bad design. Something that does not fix a problem but offers an alternative method to avoid it; usually a temporary solution to a software bug (from http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/WORKAROUND). Now the work around in this case only handles text and users have to install manually. I don't want to have to remember to install something to get a working clipboard. It also only works on gnome. For KDE, you gotta use klipper. So now we got 2 programs that are trying to do the same thing, therefore wasting development time because you gotta do it twice. And if there is another DE created, then we gotta develop an application like parcellite for that as well, again wasting developer time. This is why fixing it at the level it was created at is so important. Where can you handle audio and video for instance? Files? All have to be re-implemented each time if it is not fixed at the level it was created at, which is now Xorg. Anyone having to manage a software development project as well knows how important it is to first design something before you do any programming for it. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
@LimCore Have you been paying attention? We don't want a bandaid solution or a work around. We want it fixed at the source. And that includes getting rid of the stupid selection based copy and paste that only appeals to those who want the terminal app to come first when it shouldn't even be required in the first place. Apple did it, so can linux. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
So linux does it differently compared to the method that windows and OS X does? Why not do it the same? Why don't we change the freedesktop.org to match how windows and OS X does? I agree with developers who refuse to implement it because it's not the same on windows and OS X, that it's stupid. Why should a developer need to change their applications behavior for linux when the same behavior works on windows and OS X? This should be fixed in xorg. That way it's automatically fixed in all linux gui based applications. The only applications that should be checking the clipboard contents when they exit are ones that copy large chunks of data like chunks of audio or video for example. What's stopping this? Stubborn developers who think that the terminal application should come first that want their selection based copy and paste to still work. It's a small number of developers too that is causing pain for everyone else. But if xorg is forked and the clipboard is implemented just like in windows and OS X, I wonder how many distributions will drop xorg and put in the replacement for it. That will show you truly if a linux desktop distribution is for ordinary users or the traditional linux developer from 1993. I hope that it's a group of developers from Ubuntu, because that would truly show that Ubuntu wants to be the linux desktop distribution of choice. I know they can do it. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Way to go @Tralalalala ! This is what happens when developers with no monetary incentives are put in charge of features in linux. And before someone comes in with IBM paying developers to work on linux, virtually none of it is in the desktop. It's all command line based because IBM makes their money doing service for servers, not desktops. I've always posed the question with open source software but linux in general, if it wasn't free and you had to pay for a license to use it just like windows, in fact the same exact price per license, would you use it instead of windows? Or what if instead of windows, you could use Mac OS X for the same price per license, would you choose linux over it as a desktop? If you can answer yes to any of this, I'd sure like to know why :) And choosing it because it's open source is not a valid excuse. Don't involve politics or beliefs in your decision. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
I'd like to also add that putting in something like this isn't usually by a motivated developer. It's by a developer whose told by his boss or manager to implement this feature. This is why windows and mac os x has a proper clipboard. The developers have to implement it or they're fired. Despite what some people may think, Microsoft and Apple are motivated by features that their customers want. But they're also motivated to provide basic features that they know their customers will just expect them to implement, such as the clipboard. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
@jackflap If you're motivated to use linux because the sole reason is that its open source, that's fine for you. It's not for the rest of the world. And clearly you had no counter points to what was mentioned since all you can say is that open source isn't for him. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
If the xorg team refuses to implement the clipboard properly, and another group wants to fix it, fork it. You can do that. Or they can start from scratch like google did with Android because they saw that in order to fix stuff like implementing the clipbard properly, they had to replace xorg completely. If Ubuntu wants to follow that so that the clipboard works properly, I'm all for it. As for Ubuntu calling it a linux distribution, they should rethink that strategy. Stop focusing on the fluff and start focusing on the essentials. @Flapjack So you've confirmed that you use linux because it's open source. Thank you for your bias. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
I'm not a programmer, so how was this fixed in firefox? What clipboard manager was it integrated with? Does that limit it to a certain DE then since this wasn't fixed in Xorg? Did they remove anything like the selection clipboard that uses the middle mouse button? -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
I dont think so. So I submitted a bug report: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25220 Anyone want to add to it, feel free. ** Bug watch added: freedesktop.org Bugzilla #25220 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25220 -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
I wish this would get fixed in the Xorg layer instead. Fixing it on a per application basis takes more time then it should need to. And fixing it at the DE layer is a mere bandaid solution, meaning when it finally is fixed in the Xorg layer, the fix in the DE layer won't matter. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 264805] Re: clipboard is emptied when closing firefox
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 11334 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Firefox is simply obeying how xorg has the clipboard implemented. Just like it does in Windows and in OS X. Fixing it on a per application basis is not smart and creates more work instead of fixing it at the xorg level. That's the aim of the bug this was made a duplicate of. Please look at that bug instead as it will do more in the end. -- clipboard is emptied when closing firefox https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/264805 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug (via bug 11334). -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 264805] Re: clipboard is emptied when closing firefox
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 11334 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 Christoph actually it is a duplicate. Please read the summary of the bug this was set to be a duplicate of and you'll see it is a duplicate. -- clipboard is emptied when closing firefox https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/264805 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug (via bug 11334). -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Well said Patrick. So now it comes down to this: Fix it. We as end users expect this to be working the way windows and OS X have implemented it. If it's not gonna be fixed to that specification, then I won't even think of using it. There's a reason why software companies can sell software and have the public buy it. Because if it is not usable to the end user, the end user isn't gonna use it. And that company will then go out of business. What incentive here does linux have? As for just explaining it to the end user such as me why it doesn't work isn't a fix. If you have to explain how to do something, it's not designed correctly. If you wonder why OS X is the way it is, it is because they look at how you do something in it and they question it, how can we make this easier? This is the way Linux should be headed. Knowing there is a work around is not fixing it, it is avoiding it. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Some day its gonna be fixed? It's been 16 years. I can tell you what prevents me from using Linux is bugs exactly like this where the developer thinks its fine but 99% of users do not think it's fine. it's a bug. Fix it already. I don't care if its gonna take a lot of work, I'd like it fixed. Making excuses doesn't make up for the fact it's a bug, and a major one at that due to a design decision made in 1993. I can tell you I won't be using linux until the developers behind it start taking it seriously by fixing major design problems just like this. Audio and video is another one and just being able to install a driver/module in linux is another one. What good is open source software if it doesn't work correctly? -- Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
I say it should be fixed in the X.org layer. Otherwise you have DE's reinventing the wheel here when they shouldn't have to. Here is how it should be working: 1. Copy or cut something into the clipboard. 2. It copies directly into ram without needing the original app open after it's done. 3. If it is too large, put a message that it is unable to copy that large amount. It can test this by estimating how much memory it is going to take up. 4. When you close that app it stays there. 5. An app can set a flag that checks if its still in memory when exiting, then upon closing the app, the Xorg layer of the clipboard will warn the user that the app is leaving this in memory and asks the user if they want to clear it upon exiting the app. It can pause the exiting of the app to do this. This way we don't have to have a hard coded value. It is up to the app to correctly set this flag such as audio/video/image editing apps. 6. When the user has made up their mind of what they want to do, then the app finishes exiting. The API needs the following features: 1. Estimation of how large the object is going to be in memory so that it doesn't take up all the users memory. A good percentage I think is 90% here. 2. A flag that is set that when the app has exited, X.org is to ask the user if they want to keep the clipboard contents in memory or delete them. When the user has answered this, then the app in question is allowed to continue exiting. 3. Confirmation that the object has been copied into the clipboard or if it hasn't, the reason why which goes to point 1. 4. When you cut an object, only delete the original if you paste the new object. 5. Object type that is copied into the clipboard. This is so that we can identify the object that is in clipboard and possibly identify which app would be appropriate to be able to use it in. To expand on this object type, we can have 5 basic types: 1. Text 2. Raw Audio 3. Raw Video 4. Raw Images 5. A file Just an idea here, what do the rest of you think? -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Oh yeah and I almost forgot, remove the selection copy method. If an individual app wants to do it fine, but don't make it system wide by default. This way those who use terminal apps who want selection can still keep it. Then it doesn't interfere with any other app. Putty on windows works this way, so it can be done. -- MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 106644] Re: MASTER Clipboard gets lost when windows is closed
*** This bug is a duplicate of bug 11334 *** https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 The design of the clipboard isn't rocket science here. Implement it according to the way Windows does it. If an application wants to use the selection method of copy and pasting, then it takes over the ctrl+c ctrl+x ctrl+v shortcuts since it's most likely a terminal application. But most other applications are not and the selection method should therefore be disabled in the main clipboard implementation. You may think you save time using the selection method, but it is NOT intuitive. And we wonder why at the beginning of every year someone announces that this year will be the year of the linux desktop and yet it fails to come true. This is why. Users expect stuff to be working properly and this is an example of something not working properly and the developers not caring enough because it works the way they want it to work and that's what matters to them. It doesn't matter to them that to most end users, it is broken and not working. -- MASTER Clipboard gets lost when windows is closed https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/106644 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug (via bug 11334). -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
The design of the clipboard isn't rocket science here. Implement it according to the way Windows does it. If an application wants to use the selection method of copy and pasting, then it takes over the ctrl+c ctrl+x ctrl+v shortcuts since it's most likely a terminal application. But most other applications are not and the selection method should therefore be disabled in the main clipboard implementation. You may think you save time using the selection method, but it is NOT intuitive. And we wonder why at the beginning of every year someone announces that this year will be the year of the linux desktop and yet it fails to come true. This is why. Users expect stuff to be working properly and this is an example of something not working properly and the developers not caring enough because it works the way they want it to work and that's what matters to them. It doesn't matter to them that to most end users, it is broken and not working. -- Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
Actually the way windows and OS X does it is if its text, its copied to the clipboard. If it's something larger like part of a graphic like photoshop does, they monitor the source. If the source is closed, that question pops up asking if the user wants to keep it in the clipboard. If they click yes, then it gets copied to the clipboard. If they click no, it simply is closed without anything further. If it's a file, its location is remembered only in the clipboard and that it is to be copied or cut no matter if the source window is open or not. But fixing it in glipper is NOT the answer. That is a bandaid solution. It needs to be fixed in the Xorg layer where it is implemented in the first place, so that it is fixed for all DE's like gnome and kde. -- Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/11334 You received this bug notification because you are a member of Ubuntu Desktop Bugs, which is a subscriber of a duplicate bug. -- desktop-bugs mailing list desktop-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/desktop-bugs
[Bug 11334] Re: Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste
I'm glad I'm not the only this has effected. Why is this taking so long to fix? Could it be because traditional linux users don't want to lose the clipboard integration that they put into the terminal emulator? I'd bet so. This is unacceptable. Here's a write up of a frustrated linux user who tried to use the clipboard in linux from http://elliotth.blogspot.com/2008/08/desktop-linux-suckage- clipboard.html. Desktop Linux suckage: the clipboard X11's equivalent of the clipboard has been broken since I first used X11, back in 1993. 15 years later, things are still as bad as ever they were. They say hard cases make bad law, and terminal emulators make very hard UI cases. Unfortunately, nerds being nerds, a terminal emulator tends to be the first application written for any Unix GUI. There are two main problems caused by starting with the terminal emulator and generalizing to the other 99% of applications. The more fundamental problem is that terminal emulators expect that most keystrokes can be passed through to the pseudo terminal, including the keystrokes that every other application on your system uses as keyboard equivalents for menu actions. The X11-specific problem is that XTerm conditioned many long-term Unix users to use the selection instead of the clipboard. (If you're not an X11 user, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about here. Don't worry; we'll get to it.) The big problem with the X11 clipboard is actually nothing to do with terminal emulators, except in so far as if they'd actually written some real apps instead of guessing what they might be and how they might behave, they probably wouldn't have crippled the clipboard in the way they did. The easy one first, though. Mac OS uses a modifier key for menu actions (the command key) that didn't exist on traditional terminals, cleverly side-stepping the problem. PuTTY on Windows basically does without; a not unreasonable solution. GNOME Terminal uses control and shift (instead of just the control key). Terminator uses alt, which used to be popular on Unix, but fell out of favor in Linux times, thanks (I've always assumed) to the influx of Windows users. As for the second problem, you may or may not know that Mac OS actually has multiple pasteboards (as usual, even their terminology is different). Mac OS hides them well enough that real people neither know nor care. Real people using Linux, even if they only use Firefox, get screwed by the old selection versus clipboard nonsense. Basically, in addition to the usual clipboard with its explicit copy and paste actions, there's a selection. To set it you just select some text. To paste it, you press the middle button. (These days, the scroll wheel.) To paste it over existing text (such as in your web browser's location bar)... well, you can't do that. It's roughly that mistake that screws people over. I see this catch people out at least once a week, and that's amongst X11 users savvy enough to simply shrug, mutter something along the lines of bloody clipboard, and try again more carefully. As long Linux has no Steve Jobs to stand up and say this is hurting us, so out it goes, I don't see this getting fixed. Anyone could write the patches to remove X11 selection support. But without a Steve Jobs standing over the relevant projects' maintainers, how could we ever get them accepted? The gatekeepers we have are the XTerm-toting Emacs users who sincerely believe they couldn't live without this shit. (KDE offers an option to ignore the selection, but I believe it defaults to the old behavior. My work-around is to just never use middle-button paste. It's a lot easier to kick the habit than most old-timers probably imagine, and it makes your muscle memory more portable to other systems.) This isn't actually the worst part, though. The funny thing about that nonsense is that it's more likely to affect nerds than real people, because real people aren't too likely to come across the selection by accident. In fact, they're likely to give up on Linux before they get that far. More serious is that there isn't a clipboard in the sense of a central place that stuff gets copied or cut to. The way it works is that it's more like a token that gets handed round. So if you copy in Firefox and paste Rhythmbox, what happened was that at copy-time Firefox said if anyone wants the contents of the clipboard, they should ask me, and at paste time Rhythmbox asked who has the clipboard contents?, was told Firefox, and asked Firefox could I have the clipboard contents?. Which is all nice and efficient, saving unnecessary copying... until someone copies, quits, and tries to paste. Now the application with the data is no longer running, so it's gone. This is not how a clipboard should work. I don't need to tell you that this isn't how a clipboard should work, of course. You have common sense. You're not a paranoid engineer engineering for the worst case (of copying a 2GiB MPEG movie onto the clipboard) and
